Archbishop Claims SCOTUS Decision Is "Poisoning" The Future

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I like how eeryone is calling the child sex abuse comment a low blow or a strawman statement. The Archbishop made a statement about how violent video games are ruining our youth. What the hell do you think the priests who have or are still diddling children are doing? It's a prefectly valid point for this article. As for those saying that there's no accusations of abuse in his diocese so it's off limits, that's just foolish. He's still a part of the problem if he has spent all these years attacking pixels instead of fighting the church's Three-Card Monte game with abusive priests. He's an Archbishop for crying out loud, he has considerable power when it comes to fighting against abusive priests. It's like yelling at someone to turn down their music across the street when your house is burning down around you.

vansau:
Chaput claimed that violence in games had a "direct impact on youth and is among the roots of real-life violence."

Woah, woah, woah, woah, woah, woah, woah... woah.

It is among the ROOTS OF REAL-LIFE VIOLENCE? Really? Really? Real-life violence, which has been around since the dawn of bloody mankind? Those roots? The roots of anger, hate, frustration, jealousy, greed, pride, vanity, and so on and so forth? THOSE ROOTS?

Someone obviously isn't seeing the real cause of these crimes. I would think a priest would know more about that, but I guess it would be silly to have everyone well-educated, wouldn't it?

starwarsgeek:
I'm a leader on Church youth retreats, and I have to take a class every few years to be authorized to go on these retreats.

Neat. It's good to see people interested in the youth, who are willing to take the necessary steps to prove that they're good people. I wasn't a part of their church (or any church, really), but back in my Junior year in High School, I went to a few weekend youth groups where a bunch of kids stayed over night and played video games (typically violent), as well as shadow tag and capture the flag in the huge back of the church. The youth minister was pretty cool.

This was years ago, mind you.

chadachada123:
It's ALMOST to the point of strawmanning, but really does address a valid point, even if it doesn't excuse video games itself, only pointing out a far larger problem within the bishop's own leadership. The argument isn't completely about video games not being evil, as the argument is also about how big of an idiot this bishop is, and possibly how big of a hypocrite he is.

It is a strawman and borderline ad homeniem, somewhat implying that the bishop takes part in said "unsavory activities".

This would be like, say, in a debate about abortions and the guy you're arguing with is an investor or something in business. Then when he says abortions can deteriorate traditional values (just go with it), you say "Well, I bet investment bankers have torn apart way more families in a more effective way!" (forgive me if I got anything wrong, I know nothing of economics). Do you see how that is a strawman/ad homeniem? It's not addressing the point at all, instead saying "Oh, what your people do is so much worse!" dragging the main point away. That's what this quote did, it drew attention away from the actual argument, and for some people it succeeded.

starwarsgeek:
SNIP

Actually, it's more criticing how the catholic church protects sex offenders from prosecution. Which it does.

Don't get me wrong, caring about the well being of children isn't a bad thing. It's actually commendable. But how's about he tackle a real issue that provably happened and has provable harm, rather than going at something that is a relative non-issue entirely?

Something like this and the relatively poor response we get from the CC DOES harm the credibility of church officials. Especially ones who have never once spoken against the CC's defense of these people and absolute lack of cooperation with law officials.

starwarsgeek:
The Archbishop has no idea what he is talking about here, obviously, but I'm sure vansau is perfectly aware that he is strawmanning. Ignorance is excusable (though really annoying). Poor debate tactics are not.

1. No, ignorance is in no way excusable. Ignorance can be fixed if the individual is willing to put the effort into learning about the topic of which they are ignorant. A lack of intelligence (stupidity), on the other hand, is still annoying, but can be excused because it is a result of one's inability to learn, rather than their choice not learn.

2. While I agree that the hyperlink is a cheap shot, I cannot dismiss it as an invalid point. If the Archbishop is truly concerned with helping the youth of America it would seem that his time would be better spent helping the church identify and remove pedophiles from its ranks than issuing spiteful and ultimately futile statements.

The obvious pedophilia quib aside, what pray-tell gives this guy this grand insight into what is moral and just? And how exactly does he know that the scotus's (don't you just love this abbreviation?) decision would "poison" this country? And even more importantly, how the hell does he know the "intent" of the Founding Fathers? Yeah, he be crazy alright...

Gaderael:
I like how eeryone is calling the child sex abuse comment a low blow or a strawman statement. The Archbishop made a statement about how violent video games are ruining our youth. What the hell do you think the priests who have or are still diddling children are doing? It's a prefectly valid point for this article. As for those saying that there's no accusations of abuse in his diocese so it's off limits, that's just foolish. He's still a part of the problem if he has spent all these years attacking pixels instead of fighting the church's Three-Card Monte game with abusive priests. He's an Archbishop for crying out loud, he has considerable power when it comes to fighting against abusive priests. It's like yelling at someone to turn down their music across the street when your house is burning down around you.

Read my above post. It is not a valid statement whatsoever, it deals nothing with the topic at hand instead distracting from the main point by saying "Oh look! These kinds of guys have done way worse stuff that video games supposedly have!" which is only demeaning his argument and ours.

If he was stupid enough to ignore all social factors relating to Columbine and blame games for it, i seriously doubt he'd know what he's talking about in regards to the SCOTUS decision. Especially since gaming already regulates itself, the ESRB probably being the only rating company still taken seriously.

starwarsgeek:

vansau:
I'm willing to bet that Catholic priests have done more harm to the youth of the world than videogames have

That was completely unnecessary.

The Archbishop has no idea what he is talking about here, obviously, but I'm sure vansau is perfectly aware that he is strawmanning. Ignorance is excusable (though really annoying). Poor debate tactics are not.

I agree that was very offensive since most priest do not do that the news poster is just as bad as the priest
OT the priest is wrong

Insert simpleminded remark about priests and altar boys here...

Seriously is that the best counter argument the anti-catholic crowd can come up with these days?

Well, the Catholic Church does love to have the world as what it feels it should be. *shrugs* Just ignore him. He didn't win then, and I damn well don't think he'll win now.

vansau:

Seeing as how Chaput was a pretty adamant foe of games back then, it's not surprising that he still hates them. That said, I'm willing to bet that Catholic priests have done more harm to the youth of the world than videogames have, though this wasn't something that the Archbishop addressed in his article.

ouch, but i do appreciate a good burn.

In my experience religious leaders only like free speech if people use it to spread their message.
They tend not to like it when people have messages they disagree with...

Alar:

starwarsgeek:
I'm a leader on Church youth retreats, and I have to take a class every few years to be authorized to go on these retreats.

Neat. It's good to see people interested in the youth, who are willing to take the necessary steps to prove that they're good people. I wasn't a part of their church (or any church, really), but back in my Junior year in High School, I went to a few weekend youth groups where a bunch of kids stayed over night and played video games (typically violent), as well as shadow tag and capture the flag in the huge back of the church. The youth minister was pretty cool.

This was years ago, mind you.

Yeah, it's a lot of work, but definitely worth it. My Church has two each year. We put on several skits, so there's a lot of lines to memorize and a meeting each weekend (for 5-6 weeks) to prepare for it. The adults have to retake class when necessary. Once there, we've gotta keep an eye on the kids during the whole weekend, make sure they don't get hurt during free time, stop any bullying (which, fortunately, is rare), ect, and we college age leaders have to also watch out for the high schoolers, who sometimes act out worse than the kids. It's a lot of work, but these retreats are usually my two favorite weekends of the year!

dogstile:

vansau:

Seeing as how Chaput was a pretty adamant foe of games back then, it's not surprising that he still hates them. That said, I'm willing to bet that Catholic priests have done more harm to the youth of the world than videogames have, though this wasn't something that the Archbishop addressed in his article.

That was low man, I mean, even for the escapist that was low :P

I wouldn't have thought that was low blow because Religion is what makes most people stay both blind and ignorant of what goes on around them, they like to control things that they do not deem "holy" and "natural" and they go on their little moral crusade.

getting to the point it's true in what vansau said they have indeed done more harm and yet they are part of a religion that frowns upon such acts and damns those that commit them which really causes more damage to both their religion and themselves and they ignore what they do and instead focus on something as little as video games, so i think they deserved that low blow.

Alar:

vansau:
Chaput claimed that violence in games had a "direct impact on youth and is among the roots of real-life violence."

Woah, woah, woah, woah, woah, woah, woah... woah.

It is among the ROOTS OF REAL-LIFE VIOLENCE? Really? Really? Real-life violence, which has been around since the dawn of bloody mankind? Those roots? The roots of anger, hate, frustration, jealousy, greed, pride, vanity, and so on and so forth? THOSE ROOTS?

Someone obviously isn't seeing the real cause of these crimes. I would think a priest would know more about that, but I guess it would be silly to have everyone well-educated, wouldn't it?

Especially since the Catholic Church never really had any problems with killing people it simply didn't like *coughcrusadescough*

*Ahem* It seems that a little violent lump of crud got stuck in my throat, pardon me.

Shadow-Phoenix:
I wouldn't have thought that was low blow because Religion is what makes most people stay both blind and ignorant of what goes on around them, they like to control things that they do not deem "holy" and "natural" and they go on their little moral crusade.

getting to the point it's true in what vansau said they have indeed done more harm and yet they are part of a religion that frowns upon such acts and damns those that commit them which really causes more damage to both their religion and themselves and they ignore what they do and instead focus on something as little as video games, so i think they deserved that low blow.

It is not related to the article at all. This isn't the "Religion & Politics" board, this is just cold, hard news. It doesn't matter whether he "deserved" that low-blow, the very fact that he delivered it is demeaning to the story in the first place. The article could easily have done without it, and promote much more discussion without fueling this kind of fire.

Jumplion:

Gaderael:
I like how eeryone is calling the child sex abuse comment a low blow or a strawman statement. The Archbishop made a statement about how violent video games are ruining our youth. What the hell do you think the priests who have or are still diddling children are doing? It's a prefectly valid point for this article. As for those saying that there's no accusations of abuse in his diocese so it's off limits, that's just foolish. He's still a part of the problem if he has spent all these years attacking pixels instead of fighting the church's Three-Card Monte game with abusive priests. He's an Archbishop for crying out loud, he has considerable power when it comes to fighting against abusive priests. It's like yelling at someone to turn down their music across the street when your house is burning down around you.

Read my above post. It is not a valid statement whatsoever, it deals nothing with the topic at hand instead distracting from the main point by saying "Oh look! These kinds of guys have done way worse stuff that video games supposedly have!" which is only demeaning his argument and ours.

No, it is a valid point. You cannot spout off about video games hurting youth with no justification or proof as a moral crusader while there are so many cases on record of what his church has done to directly harm children.

As for Vansau not listing all the things wrong with the Archbishop's statement, all one has to do is go look at the news post on this site recently. This is a niche site. People on here a generally informed on the goings on in regards to not only the SCOTUS ruling, but of the multiple studies and findings that contradict everything that the Archbishop has stated. If this were a general news site, I would expect them to delve into the reasons in the article, but as it is, it's not necessary in this article.

Noremac60:
1. No, ignorance is in no way excusable. Ignorance can be fixed if the individual is willing to put the effort into learning about the topic of which they are ignorant. A lack of intelligence (stupidity), on the other hand, is still annoying, but can be excused because it is a result of one's inability to learn, rather than their choice not learn.

2. While I agree that the hyperlink is a cheap shot, I cannot dismiss it as an invalid point. If the Archbishop is truly concerned with helping the youth of America it would seem that his time would be better spent helping the church identify and remove pedophiles from its ranks than issuing spiteful and ultimately futile statements.

Yes it is. None of us are omniscient, so we all will speak out of ignorance many times in our lives. Considering he started speaking out after Columbine, he's most likely another victim of media ignorance. We shouldn't make a big deal when someone is simply wrong. It makes the gaming community look jumpy and insecure.

How do you know one of the Archbishop's duties isn't taking preventative measures against pedophiles or other harmful people? Obviously, the man didn't spend much time researching this topic, so he's apparently busy elsewhere.

Edit:

Gaderael:
As for Vansau not listing all the things wrong with the Archbishop's statement, all one has to do is go look at the news post on this site recently. This is a niche site. People on here a generally informed on the goings on in regards to not only the SCOTUS ruling, but of the multiple studies and findings that contradict everything that the Archbishop has stated. If this were a general news site, I would expect them to delve into the reasons in the article, but as it is, it's not necessary in this article.

The readers already knowing relevant details does not excuse lazy journalism. I would have taken an extra sentence or two to shoot down the Archbishop's argument.

I have know idea if you'll actually see this. Didn't feel like making another post so soon, and I can't "reply" in an edit.

Shadow-Phoenix:

dogstile:

vansau:

Seeing as how Chaput was a pretty adamant foe of games back then, it's not surprising that he still hates them. That said, I'm willing to bet that Catholic priests have done more harm to the youth of the world than videogames have, though this wasn't something that the Archbishop addressed in his article.

That was low man, I mean, even for the escapist that was low :P

I wouldn't have thought that was low blow because Religion is what makes most people stay both blind and ignorant of what goes on around them, they like to control things that they do not deem "holy" and "natural" and they go on their little moral crusade.

getting to the point it's true in what vansau said they have indeed done more harm and yet they are part of a religion that frowns upon such acts and damns those that commit them which really causes more damage to both their religion and themselves and they ignore what they do and instead focus on something as little as video games, so i think they deserved that low blow.

I'm not arguing religion, i'm saying that while I would expect the escapist to have a jab at them, that was beyond what they should have done. Was their any need for it? Does it paint us in a better light than them?

Course not.

Yes, whine about these games while your Church is laced with pedophiles. Good job...
I appreciate that Mr.Chaput admits that not all games are bad, however saying that they are part of the ROOTS of violence in this world is simply false! These roots are things like greed, hate, & jealousy and those have been around since before recorded history.

Gaderael:
No, it is a valid point. You cannot spout off about video games hurting youth with no justification or proof as a moral crusader while there are so many cases on record of what his church has done to directly harm children.

Evidently, you can. He's not talking about child molestors or crusades or some other BS. This is about video games and the whole SCOTUS ruling. Keep it that way. Molestors in the church and the SCOTUS ruling are two completely different topics. You can rally on saying "they do way more damage!" but that is a strawman and completely missing, and distracting from, his main argument.

If the article did not have that comment, it would have been better for it, come off as less biased (than it already is), and everyone would continue on their merry way.

As for Vansau not listing all the things wrong with the Archbishop's statement, all one has to do is go look at the news post on this site recently. This is a niche site. People on here a generally informed on the goings on in regards to not only the SCOTUS ruling, but of the multiple studies and findings that contradict everything that the Archbishop has stated. If this were a general news site, I would expect them to delve into the reasons in the article, but as it is, it's not necessary in this article.

It is not necessary to exercise good journalism simply because it is a "niche" site? Considering other news sites of the same niche that The Escapist fills provide news with much less personal input, that is not acceptable. IGN, despite their own flaws, handle actual news and editorials quite nicely.

And don't get me started on the whole studies and whatnot. I get that The Escapist is primarily a gaming site, but this does not excuse horribly biased, unprofessional articles on any study. I am all for scrutinizing studies, science needs skeptics, but we never give the same treatment to nicer sounding studies that promote our own precious hobby as if somehow games have absolutely no effect on anybody, no matter how small.

...And how many people have killed others in the name of religion and used the bible as inspiration for violent acts?

This guy needs to shut the fuck up

How quickly people of faith forget the whole, "Judge not, lest ye be judged" thing. He must know that people are going to fire back using the pedophiles in the Church as ammo. Sad really. The thought, "Clean up your own house," keeps ringing in my head...

Jumplion:

Shadow-Phoenix:
I wouldn't have thought that was low blow because Religion is what makes most people stay both blind and ignorant of what goes on around them, they like to control things that they do not deem "holy" and "natural" and they go on their little moral crusade.

getting to the point it's true in what vansau said they have indeed done more harm and yet they are part of a religion that frowns upon such acts and damns those that commit them which really causes more damage to both their religion and themselves and they ignore what they do and instead focus on something as little as video games, so i think they deserved that low blow.

It is not related to the article at all. This isn't the "Religion & Politics" board, this is just cold, hard news. It doesn't matter whether he "deserved" that low-blow, the very fact that he delivered it is demeaning to the story in the first place. The article could easily have done without it, and promote much more discussion without fueling this kind of fire.

What exactly would you have said had that blow not been in place of the article i would love to know.

Wheres the button where i can "report" the author for making offensive statements against Catholics?

Thats seriously just getting offensive

I wonder what would happen if they found a copy of pokemon in Michael Vick's house?

Johnnyallstar:
He's almost right, but still wrong.

Parents who don't control what their kids come in contact with are poisoning the future. Games are just the medium used.

Thank you. Why can't people REALIZE this? It seems like such a common sense thing!

I seem to recall something about a cathlic kid who also went on a school shooting thing not long after columbine and apparently he had never touched a videogame, unfortunately Im took lazy to look it up

Shadow-Phoenix:
What exactly would you have said had that blow not been in place of the article i would love to know.

Ideally, nothing, as that would undermine the point of "objective journalism". At the very least, ask the audience their thoughts.

But, if forced, as someone had interestingly put, I would put how if SCOTUS had ruled against the video game industry/EMA it would have restricted the rights of the parents that he so lovingly puts on a pedestal, rather than helping them.

Ranchcroutons:
Wheres the button where i can "report" the author for making offensive statements against Catholics?

Thats seriously just getting offensive

Bottom-left corner of the post. It's only on the actual comment, not the article.

Unrelated Edit: Hey, I'm over 1000 posts now. Neat :)

He's an archbishop. Basically what his job is- to fight against change by saying its poisoning or could poison society

This guy has a point. We can't even allow dangerous material like video games near our children. They might truly be "poisoned" by the violence and sexual material inside.

The only thing is, he's got the wrong target. I've heard about a book that can be found all over the place. It's ridiculous. And you know what's in it? Rape, murder, human sacrifice, genocide, slavery, incest, supernatural horror, executions, violence, war, famine, plagues, and more. Seriously this book is ridiculous! Now if only I could remember what it was called...

There's plenty of sex and violence in the teaching of the bible. There's also lots of other morally questionable teachings because the Good Book was written in an era long past. Coupled with the damage the church has done over the course of history to other cultures and people of the very same faith up to this day, it is hypocritical to claim video games as one of the key factors propagating violence. It's farcical, as criminology data paints a very different story. But no: "think of the children". What a hollow trump card that has become.

This guy is a stain on his faith; he's quite clearly a neo-conservative moron who doesn't go out of his way to properly inform his opinions because he's too busy fighting a pathetic culture war. It's insulting, quite frankly.

I have nothing against the Church and its faith. I have met, and know beyond decent individuals who define their lives by it, however this kind of politicking by so called 'leaders' is petty, ill-informed and reeks of ultra right-wing politics.

And so the cycle continues. Religious leader blames something or someone for deviancy, then people retaliate with comments on pedophilia.

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