Rage Cuts Single-Player When You Buy It Used

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Meh, that's a game off the buy list for me.

Irridium:

Scizophrenic Llama:

ImprovizoR:
Next time I want to buy a used Mercedes, I'll call official Mercedes dealership to ask them if they're gonna cut my brakes if I don't give them a piece of that action.

This is fuckin' stupid. Stop punishing gamers already. This kind of behavior can only increase piracy.

Or you could, you know, buy the game new and actually support the developer? Rather than the, "Fuck you, I want to buy your game at a cheaper price, and not let any of the money go back to you, and you're a piece of shit for wanting to make a profit off of the sale of one of your games." attitude you've got going now.

I don't get why people are all up in arms about this. RAGE is going to be a massive game by the way all of the news stories seem to say about it, if it's a good game it'll be worth the money to buy it new. If you really want to save money and buy it used, then you're paying for a lesser experience. I see no issue in this.

You really want to blame somebody: Blame GameStop for not giving a portion of their 100% gain on a used game being sold back to the developers.

I still don't understand why they just don't lock out patches for used copies. That way everyone who buys the disk gets what's on the disk. The patches are for people who bought new and supported the dev, so they get support back. People who buy used don't get support, since they didn't support the dev.

Nope, that's too easy. The customers need to be fuct over in same way.

What are you all raging about? This is just very very very badly phrased. In essence, buyers of new copies will get free day-one DLC (like the Stone Prisoner in DA:O)...but ut was really very badly phrased...

A question for everyone, and I would appreciate a good answer, something sourced:

How does the publisher/developer pay relationship work?

I ask this for a few reasons. From my own experiences, it would be a pre-contracted amount. So, in that line of thought, after a game is released, the developer may do updates, patches, and game balancing for some more money, but the bulk of what a developer makes is payed out already. Meaning that buying the game first hand does not really matter all the much to the developer. This also essentially means the studio can contract it's future work out for greater money if it makes games that sell well or less money if the games they make do not do well.

The other side is that the Developer does not get paid if the game does not sell well, because they haven't received enough money to be successful. So, the studios get disbanded and punished in any manner of ways. Studios such as ones that made Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines have gone under presumably for this reason.

I have to admit to everyone (some of you already know) that I am reasonably sure it's the first method. That is why there is time limits placed on game studios to put out a reasonable/finished product. And if you return to my game example, they were shut down by the publisher because they made a product that yielded a negative investment, which is just good business.

Plenty of other forumites say it's the other way, but I am completely unable to find any information on this. And I don't accept "common knowledge" as an answer, simply because a great portion of the time, "common knowledge" is in error.

Well, guess what id, you just lost a new sale due to this nonsense policy. No way am I supporting a company that pulls this off. Even though it seems to be a minor change in the game, it's the principle of the matter. I will not support any gaming company that directly alters its game's content in order to try to force people to buy new copies. I can understand an incentive to buy new, such as Dragon Age's extra character, but completely cutting out whole parts of the game and missions is too much. Used game sales hurt developers about as much as used car sales hurt auto makers, and in the age of microtransactions they still generate profit off of used games by selling DLC.

It's once again a case of nonsense economics, publishers see used game sales and assume that those sales would have been new copies without a used games market. They completely ignore the fact that those sales are a result of lower cost, and don't understand that those sales would not equal the same amount as new copies. They also ignore how older used games can generate sales for new titles they release. And publishers wonder why piracy is a problem when they pull crap like this (who will, by the way, be getting a wonderful full copy of the game).

They wont stop until you have to buy every level seperately.
This plus DLC they pre-plan...
They really want me to be an anti copertaion hippy...

...This is basically new-copy DLC, not some kind of DRM...

rembrandtqeinstein:
I'm normally against all this crap but I'm reading all this with a resounding meh. It only hurts gamestop and ebay so whatever. Pirates get a fully functional game copy. New buyers get a fully functional game copy. 2nd hand buyers are boned but does that really matter at all?

Here is the funny part. How does hurting 2nd hand buyers increase the number of people willing to shell out $60 for your game? Answer is it doesn't. It just means the 2nd hand buyers will play something else. Congrats Bethesda/ID, you pissed some people off, wasted a bunch of development time your little lock, and gained nothing from it.

Whatever makes them feel better I guess.

It's stupid as hell its a used fucking game and normally the cost of used games goes to so they can buy NEW copies. I swear why in the fuck are they punishing the used buyers when they still bought a fucking game. Yet they don't seem to mind that now Rage is gonna get pirated out the fucking ass real smart move Id, I hope you don't rage when you don't get the profit you hoped for.

It is kinda funny. A week ago I was literally just about to preorder this game, which is saying a lot for me since I never preorder ANYTHING. It just looked that good.
And now, after several different things that all seem to sum up to a big "screw you" from the devs, it dropped from the top of my list to the very bottom.
I won't be getting Rage.
Not new, not used.

Dang, just when I think there might be a tiny bit of hope that AAA Devs aren't as arrogant as the usually appear, they go and do stuff like this.
Now I remember why I love Indie devs.

Braedan:
Well then. IF I buy get this game, i will IMMEDIATELY be downloading an EXE crack so I don't have to deal with any of their shit. Your fucked up bullshit won't work on me ID/Beth, come at me bro.

I think this only counts for the console version I,m pretty sure the PC version is going to use Origin or Steam (making the key useless after one use)

I don't get it, does that mean if you play the game again you get locked out, too?

cainx10a:
If you buy it used, you ain't supporting the developers, just like the pirates do. Don't see anything wrong with it, as long as this new little feature doesn't affect the legit buyers.

This is exactly what killed the auto market, the book market, dvds, vhs, clothing...

We stand on the precipice where there is only one market left.

(or am I wrong and all those things still exist and have only ever been hurt by bad business decisions...)

Am I the only one who doesn't think this is really that terrible?

It seems to me as only a very minor/small part of the game, an optional section, will be removed.

If it only means losing a few side missions from a sizeable amount of the remaining content I think I could cope.

I was going to freaking buy this game and I was going to buy it new because I like Carmack but they can go screw themselves and im going to buy ALL bethesda or and I.D Software games used or not at all and I strongly encourage everyone else to do the same.

Christ. You want to know how to completely demolish pre-owned sales? Make a game that's worth what it costs.

That is all it takes. People don't trade in your games because they're dicks who hate you and want to help others avoid giving you money. They trade in their games because they don't think they were worth $60 for the amount of content and replay value. People don't buy pre-owned games because they hate you and want to not support you at all costs. They buy pre-owned games because they don't feel that new games are worth $60 and because stores are all loaded with pre-owned games from everyone in the first category trading them in.

That's all there is to it. Either make more content or make your game cheaper. But don't make a generic linear 5 hour game, charge $60 for it and not expect everyone to immediately trade it in as soon as they can to recoup as much of that extortionate cost as possible.

I'll buy it from steam a couple months from now when its half the price. Seriously, anything I sell that I own a physical copy of is mine and mine alone. These fuckers have no right to take anything out of the game. Of course its a moral argument at this point, so I'll do what I do best. Vote with my wallet.

"Support the developers" my ass. They've already been supported. Maybe if the game wasn't shitty there wouldn't thousands of copies used sitting on the shelves. If you want to control the market, then control who you allow to sell the game. Don't sell physical copies. Problem solved. Then you need to cut the game price and assume you know the market.

Anything given to me that I purchased is mine. So sick of this "you bought the disc, not the code, you bought the right to view it, but not edit it" bullshit. I'll do what I want with it thank you, and that includes setting it on fire.

At least the other companies had the excuse when they cut multiplayer that people who buy used cost them money for server/bandwidth use...

Irridium:

Scizophrenic Llama:

ImprovizoR:
Next time I want to buy a used Mercedes, I'll call official Mercedes dealership to ask them if they're gonna cut my brakes if I don't give them a piece of that action.

This is fuckin' stupid. Stop punishing gamers already. This kind of behavior can only increase piracy.

Or you could, you know, buy the game new and actually support the developer? Rather than the, "Fuck you, I want to buy your game at a cheaper price, and not let any of the money go back to you, and you're a piece of shit for wanting to make a profit off of the sale of one of your games." attitude you've got going now.

I don't get why people are all up in arms about this. RAGE is going to be a massive game by the way all of the news stories seem to say about it, if it's a good game it'll be worth the money to buy it new. If you really want to save money and buy it used, then you're paying for a lesser experience. I see no issue in this.

You really want to blame somebody: Blame GameStop for not giving a portion of their 100% gain on a used game being sold back to the developers.

I still don't understand why they just don't lock out patches for used copies. That way everyone who buys the disk gets what's on the disk. The patches are for people who bought new and supported the dev, so they get support back. People who buy used don't get support, since they didn't support the dev.

So, looking to not sell your children and take a third mortgage out on your house to afford games is a bad thing? Yes I'm being overly hyperbolic in my example and nobody should do either of those, but just because I don't want to break the bank to buy a game doesn't mean I don't support the developers.
Now, I plan on getting a rental copy through GameFly, since I can honestly say that another apocolyptic shooter doesn't scream at me "BUY ME NOW!!!!" This doesn't mean I don't want to give it a try. So I get the middle finger from them (dev and publisher alike) for not buying their game due to intrest not being high enough to buy, but I'd still like to play it. Now, this game may be great (Id has a good history) or it may suck chrinos-mykole balls (points for reference). I don't know. Of course if I'm dieing to trek trhough another sewer shooting ghoul-like monsters in bad lighting I bet they'll have a nice hole to through $10 into to unlock the greatest sewer level ever.
Also, thank you to the developer or the publisher, most likely the later, for pushing for this "feature."

cainx10a:
If you buy it used, you ain't supporting the developers, just like the pirates do. Don't see anything wrong with it, as long as this new little feature doesn't affect the legit buyers.

I am so amazed by the brilliant propaganda campaign the game industry have run. No where else do people equate buying a used product to being the same as stealing it. If that was the case a lot of my possessions have been stolen, my car, motorbike, TV, a load of my blu-rays, DVD's, music, video card,...... yes I could go on for quite a while.

Love how the games industry have managed to brainwash people that they are different to all other products. So different that people are fine when they remove stuff that they would throw a fit about if done with any other product.

Mike Kayatta:
-snip snip-

Hey, you're pretty new here. Just saying hello.[/quote]

Hello! I've been around for a few years actually, but just started recently as a contributor.

cainx10a:
If you buy it used, you ain't supporting the developers, just like the pirates do. Don't see anything wrong with it, as long as this new little feature doesn't affect the legit buyers.

So, if I buy a used Ford, they can come along and take my brake pads? And if I buy a used book (or go to the library), the author is allowed to come along and rip out the middle chapters? All because I don't have enough money to buy it right off the bat?

How are games any different?

Mike Kayatta:

Mike Kayatta:
-snip snip-

Hey, you're pretty new here. Just saying hello.

Mike Kayatta:

Hello! I've been around for a few years actually, but just started recently as a contributor.

Interesting article, but the headline is rather more sensational than is warranted. Makes it look like they are cutting the whole single player campaign. Don't get a bad name just as you are starting out.....

Why do people keep doing shit like this. If they want to cut down on it, then they should make the game MORE appealing to by first-hand instead of only letting them use a half-game.
Using the analogy from the first poster, would people be happy if every new car was installed with a small amount of explosive that destroyed the wheels when sold on? What would be the fucking point?

Doing this shit brings in NO new customers for the game, so it makes no damn sense.

So not buying this now

I have an idea guys! Instead of trying to get Gamestop and other large used games providers to give us a part of the cut when they sell out video games used, let's punish the less fortunate gamers so they can't play if they buy used!

Cool idea, guys, cool idea...

Anyway, never planned on buying this and now I have less incentive. Punishing the customer directly is never the way to go.

Roganzar:

Irridium:

Scizophrenic Llama:

Or you could, you know, buy the game new and actually support the developer? Rather than the, "Fuck you, I want to buy your game at a cheaper price, and not let any of the money go back to you, and you're a piece of shit for wanting to make a profit off of the sale of one of your games." attitude you've got going now.

I don't get why people are all up in arms about this. RAGE is going to be a massive game by the way all of the news stories seem to say about it, if it's a good game it'll be worth the money to buy it new. If you really want to save money and buy it used, then you're paying for a lesser experience. I see no issue in this.

You really want to blame somebody: Blame GameStop for not giving a portion of their 100% gain on a used game being sold back to the developers.

I still don't understand why they just don't lock out patches for used copies. That way everyone who buys the disk gets what's on the disk. The patches are for people who bought new and supported the dev, so they get support back. People who buy used don't get support, since they didn't support the dev.

So, looking to not sell your children and take a third mortgage out on your house to afford games is a bad thing? Yes I'm being overly hyperbolic in my example and nobody should do either of those, but just because I don't want to break the bank to buy a game doesn't mean I don't support the developers.
Now, I plan on getting a rental copy through GameFly, since I can honestly say that another apocolyptic shooter doesn't scream at me "BUY ME NOW!!!!" This doesn't mean I don't want to give it a try. So I get the middle finger from them (dev and publisher alike) for not buying their game due to intrest not being high enough to buy, but I'd still like to play it. Now, this game may be great (Id has a good history) or it may suck chrinos-mykole balls (points for reference). I don't know. Of course if I'm dieing to trek trhough another sewer shooting ghoul-like monsters in bad lighting I bet they'll have a nice hole to through $10 into to unlock the greatest sewer level ever.
Also, thank you to the developer or the publisher, most likely the later, for pushing for this "feature."

Oh yes, I know that what publishers/developers are doing now is just horrid and wrong. I'm just surprised they haven't tried to hold patches hostage, since that seems the most "logical" thing in this whole stupid situation.

The best thing they could do is to simply reduce prices of new games. It would undercut used games, allow more people to buy the games, and be best for everyone. Hell, plenty of people in the industry agree that $60 is a stupid amount to ask for every game(to say nothing of prices outside the US). Hell, even EA knows that it's an issue, and they've known since fucking 2007. But of course not a god damn one of them is doing anything to fix the problems. EA, one of the first to notice the problem, now has it's own storefront to charge whatever they damn-well please. Do they do the right thing and fix the problem by selling games at cheaper prices? Hell no, they're selling their new games at $60 a pop, and on the PC where the average is(or, was I guess) $50. Way to help fix the problem EA, you fucking pricks.

I could go on, but honestly, Jim Sterling says it better then I ever could.

http://www.gamefront.com/solving-the-sixty-dollar-situation/

well now I know I definitely won't be getting the game new, and possibly not getting the game at all. Too bad, it actually looked like a half decent game

id, go die in a fire. I was even interested in this game. Now I won't do it out of principal.

hahahaha

looks like that's one more game i can cross off my list for not buying above 20-25 dollars ever.

granted..its the sewer level, which is equivalent to the water temple, so they can fuck off if i will play it probably, but still fuck that drm bullshit.

Well, at least I've got a few more dollars I can spend on something else...

Mike Kayatta:
With Rage's plan sounding suspiciously similar to some sort of reverse day-one DLC, there're sure to be more than a handful of gamers who take issue with the decision. While publishers do have to take steps to protect their industry, what I don't understand is why Willits is trying to downplay the fun-factor of running through the sewer missions Rage is locking with an online pass. If it's true that "most people will never even see it" and that skipping the section doesn't "detract" anything from your experience, then why would this actually affect whether or not a gamer buys the game new or used?

It's not like some form of "reverse day-one DLC", it's exactly "day one DLC", they're just being honest about it and putting it on the disc, while EA and others are more subtle and let you believe that it's "extra" content.

Funny: I always thought gaming was meant to evolve as time went along; but instead it's devolved into a comical self-hostage-taking scenario.

*Sigh*
I don't care about Rage either way. It's just more shit for the shit-pot. Someone gets to stir it later.

Irridium:

Oh yes, I know that what publishers/developers are doing now is just horrid and wrong. I'm just surprised they haven't tried to hold patches hostage, since that seems the most "logical" thing in this whole stupid situation.

Actually, EA DID hold one patch for Hellgate: London hostage for non-premium members in a last ditch attempt to get people to pay for a service that didn't make any bloody sense.

Gamers should really s tart to boycott developers who do this kind of greedy shit. And I mean boycott on a massive scale. If only we could organize something like that. Both developers and publishers need to understand that they can't treat customers like this. Obnoxious DRM, greedy business policies, complete lack of respect towards gamers. It has to stop. Just because they can do something, doesn't mean they should.

suitepee7:
that sounds... pretty shitty. now i will probably miss this game entirely. meh

edit:

ToastiestZombie:
I thought bad things when i read the title, but now I know that its only small parts of the SP taht are being cut for used palyers. In my opinion this is the right way to do DRM.

no, it is not the right way to do DRM, because it is punishing gamers who have still legitimately bought a copy of the game, but could not afford to do so first hand.

A new copy is 60$, a used one is 55$.

I don't see your point.

Note: A car is around $10,000+ and new video game is about $70/80.

Catchy Slogan:

cainx10a:
If you buy it used, you ain't supporting the developers, just like the pirates do. Don't see anything wrong with it, as long as this new little feature doesn't affect the legit buyers.

So, if I buy a used Ford, they can come along and take my brake pads? And if I buy a used book (or go to the library), the author is allowed to come along and rip out the middle chapters? All because I don't have enough money to buy it right off the bat?

How are games any different?

Software and Digitally released products are different. If you paid attention to the EULA, you don't OWN the product, but a license of the product to use. There is nothing that would endanger a human being (like removing the braking system from a used car sale) when a Publisher/Developer are denying second hand users who seem fine with giving their money to Gamestop (who wouldn't sell me a copy of MGS:PW new, because they had a few used copies lying around, and try to convince me for 15 minutes to get it! They even fucking sold the used copy from a MSG PSP core unit box, for the same fucking price as a new one, without a box ... at least the little card cover is a keeper of sort ... my first and final used game purchase) rather than the actual developers and people who you know, actually made the game.

Books are a whole different stories since going digital, thanks to piracy, can be more of a pain. And yes, without purchasing the book, the samples tend to have pages missing. :)

ph0b0s123:

cainx10a:
If you buy it used, you ain't supporting the developers, just like the pirates do. Don't see anything wrong with it, as long as this new little feature doesn't affect the legit buyers.

I am so amazed by the brilliant propaganda campaign the game industry have run. No where else do people equate buying a used product to being the same as stealing it. If that was the case a lot of my possessions have been stolen, my car, motorbike, TV, a load of my blu-rays, DVD's, music, video card,...... yes I could go on for quite a while.

Love how the games industry have managed to brainwash people that they are different to all other products. So different that people are fine when they remove stuff that they would throw a fit about if done with any other product.

Hmmm, no. I love game developers for offering me a product that give me tens and hundreds of hours of entertainment. The least I could do is pay them for the time of their lives they put in producing a video game.

I hate DRM and specially hate pirates because they can enjoy a game without any string attached, and these ingrates don't even care about that anyway.

A Shadows Age:

cainx10a:
If you buy it used, you ain't supporting the developers, just like the pirates do. Don't see anything wrong with it, as long as this new little feature doesn't affect the legit buyers.

This, I have never understood... How the fuck do used games take away from their profits? They are fucking used, that means they were bought new and then played and traded in. That means these games became part of their profits before they became used games! How is this not just greedy assholes wanting to get paid twice for the same game?

Hmm, one used sales is one missed new sales. Video games are CHEAPER than a car. This is NOT a case of greedy publishers wanting moar money, but customers wanting CHEAPER for a product that's still worth its price in FULL and the customers going as far as giving all of that good money to a corporation that could care less about them and more about their money (Gamestop and the likes) rather than developers who actually make the products and sell it at a product that is much lower than what it actually cost to product it. Video games are going to get more expensive, and piracy ain't dying anytime soon.

Anyway, I'm done here, since I moved to a 3rd world country and availability of games here is pretty well ... have yet to test the waters, but piracy seems to be the only want to get it in retail, but thanks the flying spaghetti monster for Play-Asia.com. (Hope they ship here ... and F UPS).

cainx10a:
If you buy it used, you ain't supporting the developers, just like the pirates do. Don't see anything wrong with it, as long as this new little feature doesn't affect the legit buyers.

This, I have never understood... How the fuck do used games take away from their profits? They are fucking used, that means they were bought new and then played and traded in. That means these games became part of their profits before they became used games! How is this not just greedy assholes wanting to get paid twice for the same game?

Do people selling their own cars take away from the bottom dollar of manufactures? No. So how the fuck do used game retailers? Sounds to me like in this economy, the least you could do would be to let other people actually do something that provides jobs and not fucking harass them because they are making a living off of something you have already profited from, instead of trying to hoard shit you no longer have a right to... I don't pay 60 fucking dollars to "rent" these games, I already bought it from you, FUCK OFF!

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