IO Refuses To Be "Dictated To" by Fans

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[email protected]:

yeah having your hand held by the game IS NOT a lovely design choice it cripples the game and makes it feel linear maybe you should play mario brothers instead?

Wait, now Mario Bros is an example of *bad* game design?

Wow.

I mean, really. Wow.

Seriously, kids these days. I feel like someboy told me to go watch some of those crappy Murnau films because I expressed a dislike for Transformers 3.

josemlopes:

Treblaine:

Hitman is not about "stealth" in the sense of hiding in the shadows, it is ALL about hiding in plain sight, in disguises or just mingling with the public. Something so good about stealing a disguise and infiltrating a place just walking around like you are just another guard.

And to the list of bullshit:
-Bateman completely blown off: the voice AND face of Agent 47
-no overmap
-over-emphasis on combat and shooting
-Jesper Kyd not rehired (that god damn amazing music...)
-no mention of more novel assassination modes like "accidental deaths" in Blood Money

I personally will be playing Blood Money and enjoying the good old days. As it seems IO Interactive is suffering from George Lucas Syndrome.

I dont disagree but we still dont know if that part is true, what we saw in the video was the first level and the first level of every Hitman isnt what the rest of the game is about, just look at Contracts, its almost the same thing. The human shield was also present in Blood Money.

The only more action oriented feature that we saw from it was the cover system but that is kind of irrelevant.

I am still waiting to see how the game actually turns out to be but for now my only complaint goes to the line showing the way. I still dont know if the maps are open or not.

It it looks like a duck and it quacks, don't be the one saying "but what if it's a swan?"'

My bullshit sense is tingling and the MAJOR warning sign is there is a completely different guy at the helm who it appears have never directed a game before.

I've seen a lot more media including magazine articles, there is an extraordinary emphasis on "taking out" guards and pitched gun battles. These kind of games are dime a dozen, WHY is IO doing this?

They have SUCH a unique thing with Hitman, the idea that you can get in somewhere without even being noticed, kill your target then get back out again. Are they not selling it well enough? Why do they feel that they have to copy all Batman Arkham Asylum and SC: Conviction?

I DO NOT buy the argument that we should all shut up and refuse to form an opinion till the game has come out, No one EVER says that when people are being hyped about a game being good. I will not let the marketing fuelled hype machine cover up for how they are fucking over what the Hitman franchise is.

It is subtle, the things that made the Hitman games so great, and it's easy to argue that the most gross deviations are acceptable.

In other words, just because Return of the Jedi had ewoks, that doesn't excuse all the bullshit of the Prequel trilogy.

Noelveiga:

[email protected]:

yeah having your hand held by the game IS NOT a lovely design choice it cripples the game and makes it feel linear maybe you should play mario brothers instead?

Wait, now Mario Bros is an example of *bad* game design?

Wow.

I mean, really. Wow.

Seriously, kids these days. I feel like someboy told me to go watch some of those crappy Murnau films because I expressed a dislike for Transformers 3.

no i was saying obviously you wanted something with less of a challenge and more linear.. maybe instead running down a hallway would suit you more?

Treblaine:
WHAT! Prequel trilogy made "for the fans"?!?!? Have you been living in a box since the 1990's?

Yes, we wanted more Star Wars but NOT THAT!

I dunno, never really bothered to get that into Star Wars. You wanted moar, you got moar. Just unfortunate it sucked. Lucas has no obligation to cater to fans, only to make a good movie.

What I have to say with IO is if they want to make the kind of game they are making why are they butchering the Hitman franchise to do it?

Please don't go down the DMC fandom route. IO can do whateverthefuck they want with the game, they have no obligation to make a game out of what you think the game should be. If you think you can make a better game than what they'll be putting out, by all means do it. That's not me being facetious, either, it'd be great for someone to "show them how it's done".

This is clearly something completely different from what Hitman is supposed to be, it is NOT a predatory stealth game with simplistic breadcrumb marked paths.

Yes, as you deduced from several previews of a behind-closed-doors, 10-minute demo, that is still probably in alpha phase, of which journalists tend to just put in buzz words to hype a game. Glad you can deduce how this game will suck already.

It seems the subtlety of this is all lost on you if you find Blood Money as overwhelming as scribblenauts. For crap sake, it is OBVIOUS! You explore the world and get clues and push limits, it's not like there are a millions things your can do as there are only so many windows, doors and walls. Scribblenauts you had to consider every word in the English language and more!

So then, if it was OBVIOUS, as you so eloquently put it, then there was no freedom to begin with. With Scribblenauts, I said that the abundance of options just made you rely on the easiest ones. That's how I felt when I played through Blood Money, as if there was only one true path and if I didn't know exactly where I should disguise and exactly where to go, then I wasn't playing the game right.

We won't truly know how the game holds up until we get our hands on it. Don't make the same mistake of instantly judging the game when we have barely any info aside from some quips from sensationalist journalists.

Treblaine:

I DO NOT buy the argument that we should all shut up and refuse to form an opinion till the game has come out, No one EVER says that when people are being hyped about a game being good. I will not let the marketing fuelled hype machine cover up for how they are fucking over what the Hitman franchise is.

I will say that for you right here.

It's a damn shame that the gaming community talks more about games before they are out than after.

Seriously, it's killing the medium. It's all about the hype and, subsequently, about managing the hype. I'd love to see both gamers and media talk more about game that came out six months ago, rather than games coming out six months from now so that we could all focus on enjoying real games rather than throwing rage fits or gushing over stuff that we won't be playing for months. That way devs could work with less pressure and we could enjoy the games in more depth.

Noelveiga:

[email protected]:

yeah having your hand held by the game IS NOT a lovely design choice it cripples the game and makes it feel linear maybe you should play mario brothers instead?

Wait, now Mario Bros is an example of *bad* game design?

Wow.

I mean, really. Wow.

Seriously, kids these days. I feel like someboy told me to go watch some of those crappy Murnau films because I expressed a dislike for Transformers 3.

I think he means the very first Mario Bros, which was appropriately linear for 1985.

The problem is this is 2011, and IO is trying to make a game very linear to spite how free form the 3D world can make the game and HAS made the games as with previous titles in the series.

Mario bros of course is not linear today, Mario Galaxy goes into dimensions virtually no other platformer has.

He is criticising IO for REGRESSING! Trying to roll back possibilities while the mario devs have always innovated to try to give as much freedom as their medium permitted.

You just seem to be insulted that in any way something to do with Mario might no be perfect.

[email protected]:

Noelveiga:

[email protected]:

yeah having your hand held by the game IS NOT a lovely design choice it cripples the game and makes it feel linear maybe you should play mario brothers instead?

Wait, now Mario Bros is an example of *bad* game design?

Wow.

I mean, really. Wow.

Seriously, kids these days. I feel like someboy told me to go watch some of those crappy Murnau films because I expressed a dislike for Transformers 3.

no i was saying obviously you wanted something with less of a challenge and more linear.. maybe instead running down a hallway would suit you more?

No, you were blatantly trolling and accidentally said something rather stupid and made a fool of yourself.

Still not impressed, but come on? Mario as a linear, not challenging, poorly designed game? You really need to rethink your standards there.

For the record, I never thought of Hitman as being particularly *hard*. It could be confusing at times, but rarely difficult.

Treblaine:

I think he means the very first Mario Bros, which was appropriately linear for 1985.

You're doing the kid too much of a favour by rewriting his post. I suggest you address my response to you and we take it from there.

Oh, and I honestly, genuinely have no clue of what you meant by this:

The problem is this is 2011, and IO is trying to make a game very linear to spite how free form the 3D world can make the game and HAS made the games as with previous titles in the series.

You mean "dedicated to" right?

Woodsey:
"Blystad seems to be specifically referring to Hitman: Absolution's new navigation system, which highlights possible in-game routes with colored lines, a feature some fans argue, may make the game too easy. Blystad claims that the feature is necessary, and that the degree of player freedom in the original Hitman games wasn't readily apparent because of the game's breadth of options and unforgiving difficulty.

I would disagree - freedom is not necessarily about standing on a hill and being able to point out all your options straight away. There's a lot to be said for exploration, as well as plans that are completely improvised.

Crysis 2 practically destroyed the sense of freedom present in the first game by not only making levels much smaller, but by literally pointing out your set-piece options. OK, I'm aware of my options, but I don't feel as if I have freedom because I'm just choosing from 3 pre-fabricated options.

Yes, the other Hitman games had paths that were technically mapped out, but they were spread in such a way that you felt as if you were still simply being clever and combining all these elements together.

A similar concern is what happened with Splinter Cell: Conviction's mark & execute system. Alright, you can technically choose to not use it, but virtually every level and every enemy is set up in such a way that the entire game is really based around it. If these new abilities dictate the game's design even just a fraction too much then it completely loses what made people play the previous games.

There is a reason why Chaos Theory is widely considered one of the best stealth games ever made, and why Conviction is primarily viewed as a bit-better-than-average stealth-action game.

The game will be rated 18, make the most of that fact and build a game that's intelligent. Gamers have managed the past 30 years just fine without having to have lines drawn on the floor for them.

If that's considered "hardcore" now then its because developers have let gamers get lazy.

Well said!

Treblaine:

josemlopes:

Treblaine:

Hitman is not about "stealth" in the sense of hiding in the shadows, it is ALL about hiding in plain sight, in disguises or just mingling with the public. Something so good about stealing a disguise and infiltrating a place just walking around like you are just another guard.

And to the list of bullshit:
-Bateman completely blown off: the voice AND face of Agent 47
-no overmap
-over-emphasis on combat and shooting
-Jesper Kyd not rehired (that god damn amazing music...)
-no mention of more novel assassination modes like "accidental deaths" in Blood Money

I personally will be playing Blood Money and enjoying the good old days. As it seems IO Interactive is suffering from George Lucas Syndrome.

I dont disagree but we still dont know if that part is true, what we saw in the video was the first level and the first level of every Hitman isnt what the rest of the game is about, just look at Contracts, its almost the same thing. The human shield was also present in Blood Money.

The only more action oriented feature that we saw from it was the cover system but that is kind of irrelevant.

I am still waiting to see how the game actually turns out to be but for now my only complaint goes to the line showing the way. I still dont know if the maps are open or not.

It it looks like a duck and it quacks, don't be the one saying "but what if it's a swan?"'

My bullshit sense is tingling and the MAJOR warning sign is there is a completely different guy at the helm who it appears have never directed a game before.

I've seen a lot more media including magazine articles, there is an extraordinary emphasis on "taking out" guards and pitched gun battles. These kind of games are dime a dozen, WHY is IO doing this?

They have SUCH a unique thing with Hitman, the idea that you can get in somewhere without even being noticed, kill your target then get back out again. Are they not selling it well enough? Why do they feel that they have to copy all Batman Arkham Asylum and SC: Conviction?

I DO NOT buy the argument that we should all shut up and refuse to form an opinion till the game has come out, No one EVER says that when people are being hyped about a game being good. I will not let the marketing fuelled hype machine cover up for how they are fucking over what the Hitman franchise is.

It is subtle, the things that made the Hitman games so great, and it's easy to argue that the most gross deviations are acceptable.

In other words, just because Return of the Jedi had ewoks, that doesn't excuse all the bullshit of the Prequel trilogy.

If you have more info about it then ok, its just that some people are complaining only based on the leaked video and that video alone just isnt enough to know how the game truly is.

But since you say that there has been confirmation of certain decisions by the dev team then you can complaint all you want.

Noelveiga:

[email protected]:

Noelveiga:

Wait, now Mario Bros is an example of *bad* game design?

Wow.

I mean, really. Wow.

Seriously, kids these days. I feel like someboy told me to go watch some of those crappy Murnau films because I expressed a dislike for Transformers 3.

no i was saying obviously you wanted something with less of a challenge and more linear.. maybe instead running down a hallway would suit you more?

No, you were blatantly trolling and accidentally said something rather stupid and made a fool of yourself.

Still not impressed, but come on? Mario as a linear, not challenging, poorly designed game? You really need to rethink your standards there.

For the record, I never thought of Hitman as being particularly *hard*. It could be confusing at times, but rarely difficult.

well, firstly i'd like to rebut your claims that i was ''trolling'' i was stating you seem to want a game to lay some bread crumbs in front of you and put a ''KILL HERE'' sign on all the 'bad guys' and i'm also guessing you prefer the game to give you cookies and milk before bed time too?, also when did i say Mario was poorly designed if you're going to argue with someone it's best you don't put words in the other persons mouth...

Jumplion:

Treblaine:
WHAT! Prequel trilogy made "for the fans"?!?!? Have you been living in a box since the 1990's?

Yes, we wanted more Star Wars but NOT THAT!

I dunno, never really bothered to get that into Star Wars. You wanted moar, you got moar. Just unfortunate it sucked. Lucas has no obligation to cater to fans, only to make a good movie.

What I have to say with IO is if they want to make the kind of game they are making why are they butchering the Hitman franchise to do it?

Please don't go down the DMC fandom route. IO can do whateverthefuck they want with the game, they have no obligation to make a game out of what you think the game should be. If you think you can make a better game than what they'll be putting out, by all means do it. That's not me being facetious, either, it'd be great for someone to "show them how it's done".

This is clearly something completely different from what Hitman is supposed to be, it is NOT a predatory stealth game with simplistic breadcrumb marked paths.

Yes, as you deduced from several previews of a behind-closed-doors, 10-minute demo, that is still probably in alpha phase, of which journalists tend to just put in buzz words to hype a game. Glad you can deduce how this game will suck already.

It seems the subtlety of this is all lost on you if you find Blood Money as overwhelming as scribblenauts. For crap sake, it is OBVIOUS! You explore the world and get clues and push limits, it's not like there are a millions things your can do as there are only so many windows, doors and walls. Scribblenauts you had to consider every word in the English language and more!

So then, if it was OBVIOUS, as you so eloquently put it, then there was no freedom to begin with. With Scribblenauts, I said that the abundance of options just made you rely on the easiest ones. That's how I felt when I played through Blood Money, as if there was only one true path and if I didn't know exactly where I should disguise and exactly where to go, then I wasn't playing the game right.

We won't truly know how the game holds up until we get our hands on it. Don't make the same mistake of instantly judging the game when we have barely any info aside from some quips from sensationalist journalists.

He DID have an obligation to his fans and he FAILED to make a good movie. His fans made his fortune and are going to be his main customer for this work.

I am NOT a DMC fanboy. That is the most petty bitching I have ever heard, the gameplay is all right on the money it is just that he has the wrong hair colour. DO NOT try to say my intemperance is entirely superficial it is the precise opposite circumstances. This game is trying to superficially act like a Hitman game but underneath it just wants to be Splinter Cell Conviction or some new predatory stealth game.

Yes, I can deduce that. IO have had a god damn media blow out, and not just on the internet but in Magazine articles, all you have to say is contrarian "you can't be 100% sure". Well I've seen NO evidence they are staying true to what actually made Hitman such an important series.

There was no "one true path" it was a compromise or until you probed and finally found the weakness in the wall of defences. Yeah, it is a hard game that requires a lot of patience, and keeping a clear head thinking logically (well, with the video-game-logic) about all the possibilities. Ultimately it takes a lot of imagination and experimentation which is ALL THE FUN! Not a small part of it, that is the main appeal of the series. Following instructions is busy work, finding your own way is much more satisfying.

One of the most useless books ever written has to be the Blood Money walkthrough guide. It's like reading cliff notes of your favourite novel.

"We won't truly know how the game holds up until we get our hands on it"

That is ridiculous logic that defies all critical thought into what games we buy. So I can't truly say a game is not worth buying or not worth playing until I ave bought it and played it!??!

WHAT!

I'll reserve judgement on the game until we see a deent amount of gameplay and a lot more info, as to the article I agree that devs shouldn't be beholden to the fans in such a way the vocal minorities would kill the game for a good portion of the fans with thier crazy ideas anyone who's ever been on a game specific forum has seen tons of threads requesting new features or tweaks, its the developers job to make games if you don't trust them to do that why don't you go make games. The developers owe the fans nothing you saw value in their product and bought it end of story theres no well I bought into x series so I get some say in how its run, especially on games that are so far from release we literally know nothing but a few tid bits and everyone is up in arms its crazy, maybe if we'de seen a demo or read articles from a gameplay session and not a 10 minute piece to get word of the game out I might be concered but its too early for that.

A bad creator does not listen to the fans. A good creator does. An execellent creator does, but does what he wants.

That is a position I can respect.

More specifically, the difference between 'I know that window is a point of entry because I've played the game enough to recognize the game design elements that inform me of that' and 'I know that window is a point of entry because I recognize it as such' is mostly academic. Still, they're buying themselves a lot of needless grief if the option can't be just turned off.

Will the highlighted routes be an option one could toggle off, or is it intrinsic to the game?

[email protected]:

Noelveiga:

[email protected]:

no i was saying obviously you wanted something with less of a challenge and more linear.. maybe instead running down a hallway would suit you more?

No, you were blatantly trolling and accidentally said something rather stupid and made a fool of yourself.

Still not impressed, but come on? Mario as a linear, not challenging, poorly designed game? You really need to rethink your standards there.

For the record, I never thought of Hitman as being particularly *hard*. It could be confusing at times, but rarely difficult.

well, firstly i'd like to rebut your claims that i was ''trolling'' i was stating you seem to want a game to lay some bread crumbs in front of you and put a ''KILL HERE'' sign on all the 'bad guys' and i'm also guessing you prefer the game to give you cookies and milk before bed time too?, also when did i say Mario was poorly designed if you're going to argue with someone it's best you don't put words in the other persons mouth...

Ah, but see, I'm not arguing with you. I was talking to someboy else. And obviously I have no interest in convincing you that you were trolling. That makes no sense. You're trying to convince me that you weren't trolling, and that isn't an argument, either. Also, I'm not convinced. So, there.

Noelveiga:

Treblaine:

I DO NOT buy the argument that we should all shut up and refuse to form an opinion till the game has come out, No one EVER says that when people are being hyped about a game being good. I will not let the marketing fuelled hype machine cover up for how they are fucking over what the Hitman franchise is.

I will say that for you right here.

It's a damn shame that the gaming community talks more about games before they are out than after.

Seriously, it's killing the medium. It's all about the hype and, subsequently, about managing the hype. I'd love to see both gamers and media talk more about game that came out six months ago, rather than games coming out six months from now so that we could all focus on enjoying real games rather than throwing rage fits or gushing over stuff that we won't be playing for months. That way devs could work with less pressure and we could enjoy the games in more depth.

Nope.

What is killing this industry is multi million dollar marketing campaigns that sell utter bilge to the lowest common denominator and YOU expect everyone to just shut up... and not say A THING that contradicts their dollar fuelled hype machine!?!?

I DO talk about games that cam out 6 months ago, 6 years ago even! How the hell could you imply that my commenting on this is somehow to the complete exclusion of games once released.

See once a game is released it is too late.

And here is the most important thing, people make the decision to buy a game when they first hear about it. Not when they first have the opportunity to buy: first impressions.

And if a game like this sells... it's over.

No publisher will green light another game like the classic hitman they will ALL say:

"well Hitman 1-4 didn't sell very well. Then it ditched all that stupid plotting stuff and made a cool predatory stealth clone and look how much money it made! See, voting with wallets, just like democracy. You believe in democracy?"

As Extra Credits said, nothing bad ever came of a medium by talking about it and trying to understand it.

I think I am coming to understand what is going on here.

Hitman was always a very cool series but it was hard, you needed to have patience and think clearly with depth and breadth which turned many people off to spite how cool it looked. Now it is turning into a homicidal Arkham Asylum rip off... I can see how certain people would think this is a good thing. Even though if fucks over the fans that are the only reason the franchise ever got to 4 games.

Noelveiga:

[email protected]:

Noelveiga:

No, you were blatantly trolling and accidentally said something rather stupid and made a fool of yourself.

Still not impressed, but come on? Mario as a linear, not challenging, poorly designed game? You really need to rethink your standards there.

For the record, I never thought of Hitman as being particularly *hard*. It could be confusing at times, but rarely difficult.

well, firstly i'd like to rebut your claims that i was ''trolling'' i was stating you seem to want a game to lay some bread crumbs in front of you and put a ''KILL HERE'' sign on all the 'bad guys' and i'm also guessing you prefer the game to give you cookies and milk before bed time too?, also when did i say Mario was poorly designed if you're going to argue with someone it's best you don't put words in the other persons mouth...

Ah, but see, I'm not arguing with you. I was talking to someboy else. And obviously I have no interest in convincing you that you were trolling. That makes no sense. You're trying to convince me that you weren't trolling, and that isn't an argument, either. Also, I'm not convinced. So, there.

...this is just getting redundant

The Random One:
A bad creator does not listen to the fans. A good creator does. An execellent creator does, but does what he wants.

That is a position I can respect.

More specifically, the difference between 'I know that window is a point of entry because I've played the game enough to recognize the game design elements that inform me of that' and 'I know that window is a point of entry because I recognize it as such' is mostly academic. Still, they're buying themselves a lot of needless grief if the option can't be just turned off.

You know, that's a very good point. There is really no formal distinction between highlighting the options with a glimmer or highlighting them using other readability tactics. Good devs have been highlighting the tactical options in levels forever using textures, camera angles and those boring, boring tracking shots pointing at where you need to go (which Hitman has also been guilty of at times). One might argue that the glimmer option is a bit lazy or not as subtle, but claiming that the alternative is to not highlight options at all is just an uninformed take.

This would be palletable if they weren't milking a liscence for it's fanbase. Oh and if other devs weren't turning fan favourites into so much mush. At least they will have no one but themselves to blame if they Duke Nukem Forever.

Raiyan 1.0:
I already lost hope on the AAA model of trying to appeal to 'the wider demography' a long time ago, so nothing much to say here.

But why not do that, I mean the money of whiny hardcore gamers who moan about things like this is worth the same as anyone elses money so why would they not,as a business, just ignore this loud minority and go after the majority or the 'the wider demography' as you put it.

Yes, ignore the input of the people you are trying to sell your game to...and watch it be in the bargin bin 4 months after launch.

I think there's a better solution to make your game more friendly than... PAINTING THE LINEAR ROUTES ON THE FUCKING FLOOR! I hate that so much in games!

Tell me where I need to go, show it to me on a map I can access at any time and let me use my eyes and brain.

Developers should always focus on their hardcore fans first and then make it accessiable to other groups after that.

Also Hitman is a fucking puzzle game, why the hell would you tell the players what to do. That makes absolutely no sense at all.

If I like it, I'll buy it.

That's been my motto for most new games lately. Unfortunately, most new games aren't all that appealing to me for the most part. Looking to the next Hitman though--bought all the games, played all the games, enjoyed all the games, still haven't cheatlessly beaten all the games, but they're brilliantly done. I didn't like Blood Money as much with it's vanity mode camera--I prefer the original where turning left and right made Agent 47 look and face left or right, etcetera--and I especially like Silent Assassin and Contracts because of FIRST PERSON!!! FIRST PERSON, DAMN IT!

But despite that, Blood Money brought some wonderful new abilities into the world of digital modern assassination, and it was always a thrill and a challenge to complete a mission. The feeling of success was so satisfying however--after all, it's free form nature in a small open area was one of it's most challenging concepts. You had to be smart and time everything right in order to get through a mission unscathed or undetected. The feeling of euphoria I felt after walking away with a Silent Assassin rating was tremendous, if only because I knew everything I did I did myself, with little to no input whatsoever from my difficulty setting's 'auto-helping' features.

As long as there is a way to disable such help for the experienced players, and a way to enable it for rookie or casual players, I'll definitely look forward to investigating this new Hitman game.

As for the whole 'dictated to by fans' thing, it's understandable. Yet, it also sounds like your boss at work, looking at you and saying, "Hey, who's the manager here, you or me." It doesn't sound that nice when they say it, despite the credentials they possess. Take our opinion as gamers for what it's worth Edios, but you know who your consumer base is.

Treblaine:

Noelveiga:

Treblaine:

I DO NOT buy the argument that we should all shut up and refuse to form an opinion till the game has come out, No one EVER says that when people are being hyped about a game being good. I will not let the marketing fuelled hype machine cover up for how they are fucking over what the Hitman franchise is.

I will say that for you right here.

It's a damn shame that the gaming community talks more about games before they are out than after.

Seriously, it's killing the medium. It's all about the hype and, subsequently, about managing the hype. I'd love to see both gamers and media talk more about game that came out six months ago, rather than games coming out six months from now so that we could all focus on enjoying real games rather than throwing rage fits or gushing over stuff that we won't be playing for months. That way devs could work with less pressure and we could enjoy the games in more depth.

Nope.

What is killing this industry is multi million dollar marketing campaigns that sell utter bilge to the lowest common denominator and YOU expect everyone to just shut up... and not say A THING that contradicts their dollar fuelled hype machine!?!?

I DO talk about games that cam out 6 months ago, 6 years ago even! How the hell could you imply that my commenting on this is somehow to the complete exclusion of games once released.

See once a game is released it is too late.

And here is the most important thing, people make the decision to buy a game when they first hear about it. Not when they first have the opportunity to buy: first impressions.

And if a game like this sells... it's over.

No publisher will green light another game like the classic hitman they will ALL say:

"well Hitman 1-4 didn't sell very well. Then it ditched all that stupid plotting stuff and made a cool predatory stealth clone and look how much money it made! See, voting with wallets, just like democracy. You believe in democracy?"

As Extra Credits said, nothing bad ever came of a medium by talking about it and trying to understand it.

I think I am coming to understand what is going on here.

Hitman was always a very cool series but it was hard, you needed to have patience and think clearly with depth and breadth which turned many people off to spite how cool it looked. Now it is turning into a homicidal Arkham Asylum rip off... I can see how certain people would think this is a good thing. Even though if fucks over the fans that are the only reason the franchise ever got to 4 games.

No, you're not. Trying to understand, that is.

First, it's not your job to curb the industry by shouting at developers that aren't even listening in online forums. That's not how you improve it. You are more than welcome to vote with your wallet and pass on games that are not appealing to you, and that will have a (little) impact. I have no problem with that.

I do, however, have a problem with this game of righteous nerdrage as a response to any move that is perceived as not being directly fan-pleasing, however subtle it is without even giving devs the benefit of the doubt. It is kind of sad that IO here can be working on a game for years only to have former fans throw a temper tantrum at a glimpse of a feature they may or may not dislike in the actual game when it comes out. Things are getting quite ridiculous like that these days. We probably jumped the shark when people started petitioning Valve to NOT release L4D2.

I'm not asking for a lack of criticism, I'm asking for informed criticism. There's a big difference between "Hm, that looks more action-y to me, let's see what happens" and "It's Arkham Asylum with gunsWTFGTFO!!!!". For the record, you're very neatly in between those two positions right now.

I'll tell you where I stand, just to be clear. I think it's ok that they're doing a new Hitman. I like the series. I think it's cool that they're trying something new with it, too. It was getting kind of stagnant, and for how much I disliked the Kane & Lynch franchise, I'm glad they took a break from Hitman and looked at it from a different angle. About whether that angle is good or bad, I'll reserve judgement until I see enough or play enough, but I don't think this game needs to be slavishly close to the Hitman formula to be a good game, in the same way Mario RPG wasn't a bad game for not being a platformer.

EDIT: One more thing.

Pardon my french, but I'm fucking fed up with "hardcore gamers" defending a skewed view of what gaming purity is by accusing any dissenting voice of liking "dumbed down", "easy" or "casual" games.

Seriously, every time I step up to talk about this I immediately have to go over my metaphorical gamerscore and explain how much of the relevant game I played (in this case probably something like "I was playing Thief when many of the kids saying these things were in kindergarten") before I can be taken seriously. It's frustrating. Stop it.

I agree with the idea in principle, but maybe not in so much as the example given. Developers should be true to the series they are working in to some extent, but they really do need to make the game they want to make. There are definitely far too many "fans" out there that live in the belief where once they've spent $60 on a series they have somehow put a down payment on deciding how the rest of the games have to be made. When you are buying a game, you are only buying that game, you're not buying every game that will ever be created under that name. Buy a game to reward the developers for that specific creation and, if you don't like it, don't buy it. There's far far too many sources of information on games these days to exclaim you went into a purchase blind and were somehow tricked.

Now, to the exact example given in this article. Personally, I have always found the exploration and freedom in the typical Hitman game to be pretty much the core of the experience. It's been a type of sandbox stealth where the freedom you are giving can definitely be both frustrating and extremely rewarding. There have always been alternate stealth games like Splinter Cell and MGS where you're given one or two paths and everything relies purely on execution of the meager options given to you. Hitman is, at it's core, the antithesis of that. It's not always as demanding execution wise, but you're given far more choices.

just make it optional or something

I think fans do whine too much. but I think the most vocal gamers are kinda whiny to begin with. if I like it, I'll play it and keep playing it. If I don't... well you don't get my money. the thing I hate the most about the whiners is when they talk about balance without realizing maybe, just maybe you suck at the game that is "unbalanced". if a game is good you'll play it regardless(then most likely whine about the one thing that would have made the game sooooo much better). I let developers do what they do best so hopefully in turn I can do what I enjoy, which is playing games.

Scorched_Cascade:
Could they not just do an Assassin's Creed (first game that sprang to mind) and put in an option in the option menu to turn off the extra HUD help? That way everybody wins.

Well I did hear that on Silent Assassin, the HUD's will be turned off.

Actually, this seems fine. I understand they have to keep fans happy, but I also understand they don't have to follow them 100% either.

I think you have to look objectively at the fans opinion don't do what Blizzard and Bioware are doing and listen to the whiners. Look at what your fans are saying and think "will that really work"

I'm reading about this mode but what I haven't read is that the player is forced to use it. Sure it seems to be like the detective mode in that batman game, but you know what, I never used it in that game and you know what else surprise surprise I won't use it in hitman either just to give the game a little more difficulty.

I just find it silly that people will actually refuse to buy this game because an optional feature was added that will help some people but anyone else who wants to challenge themselves will never bother to us it in the first place.

Nico4:

Scorched_Cascade:
Could they not just do an Assassin's Creed (first game that sprang to mind) and put in an option in the option menu to turn off the extra HUD help? That way everybody wins.

Well I did hear that on Silent Assassin, the HUD's will be turned off.

Actually, this seems fine. I understand they have to keep fans happy, but I also understand they don't have to follow them 100% either.

That's pretty cool, actually. I like it when difficulty levels play around with removing aids or changing in-game stuff rather than just fiddling with balance metrics like health and damage.

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