Developer Defends Microsoft from Sony's Attacks

Developer Defends Microsoft from Sony's Attacks

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According to Zen Studios, developers will "do better" on XBLA than PSN.

Sony recently had some harsh words for Microsoft regarding Xbox Live Arcade's content policy. Zen Studios, which has stepped up to the plate to defend Microsoft on other issues, stood up for its distributor once again. The pinball-focused developer asserted not only that Microsoft's content policy is fair, but that Sony is lashing out at Microsoft in an attempt to cover up its own failings.

"I'll be perfectly honest, you're going to do better on XBLA than you will on PSN," said Mel Kirk, a VP at Zen Studios. In particular, Zen tackled a claim made by Sony that Microsoft was trying to cover up its "inferior technology." "If [Microsoft is] holding back features in games because they can't do what PlayStation does, I would agree with you," Kirk explained. "But I really don't understand that. Is there an actual specific title we can talk about?"

Zen Studios also felt that if Sony was going to point fingers, it should first look inward. "When PSN went down, of course it was a huge story. But then ... E3 came and it was all gone and forgotten about," said Kirk. He went on to explain how Sony's communication with developers was sub-par, as Zen learned about PSN - and its content - going back up via Facebook and Twitter. "We missed two releases in the PSN outage," he pointed out.

Defending one distributor by attacking another one is a strange strategy, but given all the flak XBLA has received lately, it's not that surprising that a company that had positive experiences would want to step up and defend it. As for whether Zen has effectively burned its bridges with Sony, time will tell.

Source: Eurogamer

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I'm not even sure I'd call that a defense.

All Zen Studios did was say "nu-uh", and then try to discredit Sony by talking about the PSN outage, which has nothing to do with anything, and wasn't their fault.

You see, Zen Studios, they get special treatment from Microsoft. Team Meat with their Super Meat Boy even started a quarrel with them, since they've been treated like shit.

I'd be interested to see honest opinion of some company, which doesn't get special treatment from either MS or Sony.

Zen studios is a corporate puppet now. You may notice they also trashed the super meat boy developer for complaining about microsoft
http://www.destructoid.com/team-meat-zen-studios-fight-over-microsoft-treatment-210935.phtml

People might actually take this seriously were the companies that are poo flinging not actually biased.

WELL! If a giant of the industry such as Zen (was it?) wades into an argument, you know your in trouble. Sony had better run for the hills and cower because the big guns are obviously out to fight.

we missed two releases in the psn outage

Perhaps that was for the best...

DO THEY WANT THIS YET?
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And I'll defend the XBox 360 for as long as it takes for people to stop bitching about it. Like RoosterTeeth's latest "Rage Quit" video, it was SUPPOSED to be fore Resistance 3, but Mike ragequit when he got to the title screen because the 3 different updates and installations took 20 fucking minutes.
On my 360 I didn't have to install MW2, BlOps and Reach onto my hard drive, I did it for faster loading times. On the PS3 versions of CoD I would have to, or face bullshit loading times.

DragonLord Seth:
DO THEY WANT THIS YET?
image
And I'll defend the XBox 360 for as long as it takes for people to stop bitching about it. Like RoosterTeeth's latest "Rage Quit" video, it was SUPPOSED to be fore Resistance 3, but Mike ragequit when he got to the title screen because the 3 different updates and installations took 20 fucking minutes.
On my 360 I didn't have to install MW2, BlOps and Reach onto my hard drive, I did it for faster loading times. On the PS3 versions of CoD I would have to, or face bullshit loading times.

YYYYeah thats a one time installation....and by the way, not all installations are like that. Resistance 3 was PARTICULARLY big. usually its half that time, or 5-10 mins if you will.

If this happened everytime you booted the game it was one thing, but a one time installation at the start? How is this in anyway a relevant point to the stupidest war ive seen? Xbox 360 has been hacked as well, it has fialed on hardware as well, its technology IS inferior.
PS3 got hacked badly, has a poor UI and library on its PSN, and it has updates n installations with more frequence than the Xbox.

DragonLord Seth:
DO THEY WANT THIS YET?
-snip-

Oh boy here we go...
Can we not get all fanboy please?

But im still trying to decipher your opening, what the hell do you mean with the flint and steel? Ar you trying to imply that minecraft isnt on PS3? or am I missing something here...

This isn't defending, this is counter-bashing. All this poo-flinging and name-calling is getting ridiculous. :\

Prof.Beany:

DragonLord Seth:
DO THEY WANT THIS YET?
-snip-

Oh boy here we go...
Can we not get all fanboy please?

But im still trying to decipher your opening, what the hell do you mean with the flint and steel? Ar you trying to imply that minecraft isnt on PS3? or am I missing something here...

What does flint and steel do? It sets things on FIRE!

Marshall Honorof:
As for whether Zen has effectively burned its bridges with Sony, time will tell.

Now do you see it?

DragonLord Seth:

On my 360 I didn't have to install MW2, BlOps and Reach onto my hard drive, I did it for faster loading times. On the PS3 versions of CoD I would have to, or face bullshit loading times.

My PS3 didn't have me installing MW2 or Black Ops, and their load times are absolutely fine.

Usually just the bigger games have an install. And that's for faster loading times, or for open world games that companies like Rockstar make.

DragonLord Seth:

Now do you see it?

I see, I just think that image had a few too many connotations to get just the basic one.

-Samurai-:

-snip-

Ditto, this myth of "every PS3 game needs an install" is rather annoying.

To be honest I wish every game DID have an install though, PS3 games run so much faster when they allow an install.
HDD > Disc any day of the week.

DragonLord Seth:
DO THEY WANT THIS YET?
image
And I'll defend the XBox 360 for as long as it takes for people to stop bitching about it. Like RoosterTeeth's latest "Rage Quit" video, it was SUPPOSED to be fore Resistance 3, but Mike ragequit when he got to the title screen because the 3 different updates and installations took 20 fucking minutes.
On my 360 I didn't have to install MW2, BlOps and Reach onto my hard drive, I did it for faster loading times. On the PS3 versions of CoD I would have to, or face bullshit loading times.

Attacking a separate company is not defending another, it's being a jackass and a fanboy. When legitimate attacks are made against one company and you respond specifically to their attack, actually addressing the issue, then you can claim it's defense.

Now, if you had an adequate way of explaining Microsofts policies regarding the XBLA, specifically that they won't host any developer that started on the PS3, then you would be defending.

P.s. I played Uncharted 2 without having an initial download and with no loading screens in game. Just saying.

Pointless, since independent developers will do better* on steam than either XBLA or PSN.

*See Cthulhu Saves the World selling more on steam in one week than it did on in one year on XBLA. Plus developers get to control their content updates.

-Samurai-:
I'm not even sure I'd call that a defense.

All Zen Studios did was say "nu-uh", and then try to discredit Sony by talking about the PSN outage, which has nothing to do with anything, and wasn't their fault.

^Pretty much right on the money. The two statements presented there seem to come down to:
- "oh this is totally not true because... well... uh... what were we talking about again?"
- "there'll be no finger-pointing!.. Steve"

wooty:
WELL! If a giant of the industry such as Zen (was it?) wades into an argument, you know your in trouble. Sony had better run for the hills and cower because the big guns are obviously out to fight.

With such hits as...a whole bunch of...pinball games? Really? That's what they're doing? Ahem, right, with such hits as this, I'm shocked Sony hasn't gone ahead and closed down support for both the PS3 and PSN. I mean, with Zen Studios holding out on them, what do they have left?

WHAT SYSTEM COULD GO ON WITHOUT PINBALL?!

Marshall Honorof:
As for whether Zen has effectively burned its bridges with Sony, time will tell.

Not that it would matter, since Zen Pinball was sh*te anyway.

OT; He criticises Sony for the PSN downtime, yet doesn't mention how they would go about fixing it, or even what the issues were in the first place. Let's be honest here; while removing the Other OS function from the PS3 (though the patch was optional, but what ever, everyone will ignore that anyway) was a d*ck move, Sony aren't to blame for getting hacked. The hackers were.

Really all I see here is a dev stating that they prefer to work with Microsoft rather than Sony, which, given that the PS3 is notoriously hard to code for, makes complete sense.

However, the real talking point is the origins of the argument, Does Microsoft hold back features in games over both consoles to cover up shortcomings of it's own? Which is just reinforcing a point that I have been making since the early years of the PS2/Xbox war, multiplatform titles kill creativity, they leave the market stagnated with identical crap in different coloured boxes.

Two separate teams, working on the same game, having to create an identical experience on both systems. Why? Because the paying consumer will complain if the version they don't have is better. Their time could be far better spent working on separate games for different consoles, creating exclusive titles that would define the console that houses them. No longer would we have gamers constantly arguing about which console has the better online service, or which one has the better hardware. The development teams, their creativity, and the games that are born from that would define the consoles, not the consoles themselves. Each game would be able to take full advantage of the strengths of the console it was being developed for, not being held back because one system has more power than the other, or one has inferior online capabilities.

A perfect example. At the time, I felt the SNES was a far better machine than the Mega Drive/Genesis, but I didn't want one because in my opinion, Sonic kicks Mario's ass

The games are where the arguments for and against consoles should be made. Early on, Microsoft clearly realised they needed great games to compete with Sony, but rather than throwing money at Third Party Devs early on for the Playstation exclusives like GTA and more recently MGS, DMC and Final Fantasy (Yes, I know Sony stole it from Nintendo, but VII would never have fit on a 64mb cartridge...) should have pumped their millions into First Party development, giving us a much wider range of games and an actual reason to choose between the main two consoles. Nintendo still leads by example in this department, there is nothing like anything they're doing. Sure you can buy Move or Kinect but if you want to play most of the games the Wii has to offer, you have to go an buy a Wii.

The conclusion I came to long ago was, No, Microsoft is not holding back Sony, both systems have their weaknesses, multiplatform games are holding everything back as developers have to work within the confines of the weaknesses of the systems.

The games can only be as good as the weakest link in all the systems they are made for

Prof.Beany:

DragonLord Seth:
DO THEY WANT THIS YET?
-snip-

Oh boy here we go...
Can we not get all fanboy please?

But im still trying to decipher your opening, what the hell do you mean with the flint and steel? Ar you trying to imply that minecraft isnt on PS3? or am I missing something here...

He means "do you want a flame war", the flint and steal is used to start fires.

That said, this guy explains my opinion of Zen best:

genericusername64:
Zen studios is a corporate puppet now. You may notice they also trashed the super meat boy developer for complaining about microsoft
http://www.destructoid.com/team-meat-zen-studios-fight-over-microsoft-treatment-210935.phtml

I'll take Team meat more seriously then I'll ever take Zen. If TM should be taken with a grain of salt than Zen should be taken with a truckload of it.

Console wars are annoying enough when it's just fanboys whining in my ear- I don't need actual publishers and companies getting in on it too. Just try to make the best experience possible for your customers, and you'll "win" the console wars.

The same goes for you Sony.

I think it's fair to say that the big, supported titles are far better off on XBLA. Beyond that there's no real difference between XBLA and PSN, they all get screwed compared to services like Steam.
Still, this source isn't exactly reliable...

Well Zen Studios sure told Sony!

Honestly, what was the point of them saying that? He didn't really say anything other than they like working with Microsoft more than Sony, and criticizes Sony for the down time with no mention of what they did to fix it.

Please, go back and keep creating more pinball games, and do kindly shut up.

Zen is actually in an interesting position, because their Pinball FX 2 "platform" approach, very similar to Rock Band, emphasizes cross-game compatibility with the first Pinball FX title, and the Marvel Pinball tables. They're actually just regular FX 2 tables on the 360. On the PS3, the Marvel stuff is a totally separate product. There's no integration. On the 360, FX 2 is literally "the platform" and all the tables are integrated directly into it. It's really slick actually. I think this is where they're coming from with rosy opinions on MS. Their particular situation just worked out better with what XBLA was able to do.

I'd just like to know who really takes an overly biased PINBALL GAME-BASED company seriously?

puffenstuff:
Pointless, since independent developers will do better* on steam than either XBLA or PSN.

*See Cthulhu Saves the World selling more on steam in one week than it did on in one year on XBLA. Plus developers get to control their content updates.

Well considering that Valve and Sony have been farting about with a Steam for PSN idea since Portal 2, we can assume things will change for the better for Sony and PSN, as long as they don't get greedy (either Valve or Sony that is).

I couldn't help bug feel a small tinge or irony when I saw this article directly above this one.

Seems it doesn't matter if you'd be more "successful" on one platform or another if the people behind it are less than pleasant to work with.

CynderBloc:
Their time could be far better spent working on separate games for different consoles, creating exclusive titles that would define the console that houses them. No longer would we have gamers constantly arguing about which console has the better online service, or which one has the better hardware. The development teams, their creativity, and the games that are born from that would define the consoles, not the consoles themselves. Each game would be able to take full advantage of the strengths of the console it was being developed for, not being held back because one system has more power than the other, or one has inferior online capabilities.

You seriously think this is a better alternative? The console wars are polemic enough with the amount of exclusivity they currently have. To imply that making all titles exclusive would be better for gamers is ridiculous. The behaviour of fans of Final Fantasy when it was announced that FFXIII would be coming to Xbox AFTER it had already been released for PS3 - as in, beyond the point where anyone could reasonably argue that the development of an Xbox version forced them to gimp the PS3 version - just goes to demonstrate what kind of stupid behaviour arises from the desire to maintain exclusivity. When the original Xbox was released I picked up a copy of their 'official' Australian magazine which, in promoting Splinter Cell, trashed Metal Gear Solid for being unrealistic in allowing you to walk around hidden in crates, and featured a whole page opinion piece titled 'Rare Gone? Suck It, Fanboys'.

Better that those people who live to argue be forced to debate such petty terms as who has the better online policy, so that the people who don't give a shit can play everything they want to play.

Shamanic Rhythm:

CynderBloc:
Their time could be far better spent working on separate games for different consoles, creating exclusive titles that would define the console that houses them. No longer would we have gamers constantly arguing about which console has the better online service, or which one has the better hardware. The development teams, their creativity, and the games that are born from that would define the consoles, not the consoles themselves. Each game would be able to take full advantage of the strengths of the console it was being developed for, not being held back because one system has more power than the other, or one has inferior online capabilities.

You seriously think this is a better alternative? The console wars are polemic enough with the amount of exclusivity they currently have. To imply that making all titles exclusive would be better for gamers is ridiculous. The behaviour of fans of Final Fantasy when it was announced that FFXIII would be coming to Xbox AFTER it had already been released for PS3 - as in, beyond the point where anyone could reasonably argue that the development of an Xbox version forced them to gimp the PS3 version - just goes to demonstrate what kind of stupid behaviour arises from the desire to maintain exclusivity. When the original Xbox was released I picked up a copy of their 'official' Australian magazine which, in promoting Splinter Cell, trashed Metal Gear Solid for being unrealistic in allowing you to walk around hidden in crates, and featured a whole page opinion piece titled 'Rare Gone? Suck It, Fanboys'.

Better that those people who live to argue be forced to debate such petty terms as who has the better online policy, so that the people who don't give a shit can play everything they want to play.

I don't really know what you mean by FFXIII, it was announced on Xbox just after it was announced on PS3, not after the PS3 version was released. As for whether or not it was 'gimped' then it's a good example, the answer is yes and no.

No in the traditional sense in that it was one of the few games to slip past Microsoft's ridiculous 1 disc policy, it was released on 3? discs, so all the content was able to be on both formats.

At the same, the fact that it was released on both systems meant that the dev team working on it had to take into account the weaknesses of both systems, rather than just concentrating on one. There is no doubt in my mind that had it been exclusive to either console, it would have been a stronger game.

There is a reason why exclusive titles are the strongest on those two systems, you think Xbox, you think Halo. You think Playstation, you think Uncharted. Those games aren't among the strongest due to idiotic fanboys, it's because they are tailored to the strengths of the systems they are on.

CynderBloc:
I don't really know what you mean by FFXIII, it was announced on Xbox just after it was announced on PS3, not after the PS3 version was released. As for whether or not it was 'gimped' then it's a good example, the answer is yes and no.

No in the traditional sense in that it was one of the few games to slip past Microsoft's ridiculous 1 disc policy, it was released on 3? discs, so all the content was able to be on both formats.

At the same, the fact that it was released on both systems meant that the dev team working on it had to take into account the weaknesses of both systems, rather than just concentrating on one. There is no doubt in my mind that had it been exclusive to either console, it would have been a stronger game.

There is a reason why exclusive titles are the strongest on those two systems, you think Xbox, you think Halo. You think Playstation, you think Uncharted. Those games aren't among the strongest due to idiotic fanboys, it's because they are tailored to the strengths of the systems they are on.

Sorry, I stand corrected on that. What they actually did (this is where it would have been helpful for me to look this up) was to complete the PS3 version and THEN move onto the xbox version, so it isn't that they were deliberately dumbing the PS3 version down. Of course, you're right in saying the game would have been stronger if they had spent all that time solely on the PS3 version, but if you can plan multi-platform development properly it shouldn't be a problem. My point is essentially that the PS3 fans were not getting shafted by the decision to complete a version for Xbox after the PS3 version had been done, but they still complained anyway, purely out of the sense of entitlement that only they should get to play it.

While platform agnosticism will result in some titles being of poorer quality, that is purely an issue of people having ridiculous expectations about development cycles. You'll notice that Blizzard, who have always been platform agnostic as far as PCs and Macs are concerned, take their sweet time with developing games instead of trying to rush them out. It is possible to do it, but most companies are obsessed with cutting corners. I'd argue that what we've gained from transitioning from a system defined by platform exclusives outweighs what has been lost. Consoles are a lot of money, and it was just bloody stupid to have to sink 400 dollars into something only to find out that half the games you wanted down the track were exclusive to a different platform. Being able to play a late, buggy port of a game is better than not being able to play the game at all.

Frostbite3789:

wooty:
WELL! If a giant of the industry such as Zen (was it?) wades into an argument, you know your in trouble. Sony had better run for the hills and cower because the big guns are obviously out to fight.

With such hits as...a whole bunch of...pinball games? Really? That's what they're doing? Ahem, right, with such hits as this, I'm shocked Sony hasn't gone ahead and closed down support for both the PS3 and PSN. I mean, with Zen Studios holding out on them, what do they have left?

WHAT SYSTEM COULD GO ON WITHOUT PINBALL?!

That's a little unfair, they don't only do pinball, they once made a rather poor mini-golf game too :)

But in all honesty I'd rather hear from a triple A developer about their thoughts on this over an indie dev who's already learnt how to do nothing more than release the same game with a different skin, I mean who do they think they are? Capcom?

Prof. Monkeypox:
Console wars are annoying enough when it's just fanboys whining in my ear- I don't need actual publishers and companies getting in on it too. Just try to make the best experience possible for your customers, and you'll "win" the console wars.

The same goes for you Sony.

Yea. What I'm gathering from all this is that both networks are crap: something I already knew from the consumer side but I don't know if it's any more comforting to know that the devs get just as frustrated.

 

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