Pachter Predicts Poor Third Party Support for Wii U

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Pachter Predicts Poor Third Party Support for Wii U

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Gaming's most vocal soothsayer reckons the Wii U won't be seeing much third-party love.

"Nintendo has to simply stop living in the past in 2012," he remarked during an interview with IndustryGamers. "They had a great deal of success since 1985 by making proprietary hardware and supporting it with proprietary software. They attracted third party support based upon the large installed base they generated for their hardware. They appear to me to be confident that 'if they build it, third parties will support it', but I don't think that is the case for Wii U."

Of course, predicting that a Nintendo console will have issues when it comes to quality third-party support is hardly revolutionary. In fact, it's rather akin to pointing out the console will most likely be three dimensional and will travel forwards through time rather than backwards, but Pachter supports his prediction with an interesting argument.

"By trying to be 'different' with the tablet controller, they have complicated game design for developers, who can't figure out if the Wii U will ultimately support only one or multiple controllers," he said. "Nintendo made the device sufficiently different that they are all but assured of limited third party launch support, which ultimately will lead to modest hardware sales."

Though many would argue it was due to limited hardware rather than the unorthodox control scheme, the Wii did suffer when it came to multiplatform titles. Though it's unclear how many third party games will be available at launch, Nintendo has confirmed that titles from THQ, Codemasters, Sega, Ubisoft, EA, Namco Bandai and Tecmo are in the pipeline.

Of course it doesn't really matter either way, as according to one of Pacther's earlier predictions, Nintendo is doomed anyway. Doooomed.

Source: IndustryGamers

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I think he is partially right. The controller thing will make it complicated in the sense that I think a great many companies will struggle to figure out a good way to use the tablet controller. It's pretty self explanatory that the Wii suffered due to it's technical limitation and not so much the controls, especially since you had so many options to make programs with. That being said, most companies made very poor use of the motion controls.

The WiiU has already rallied some great third party support, but these same companies were there for the Wii as well, such as Activision and EA. Time will tell though. I'm looking forward to seeing what it has to offer. But, there must be good games. I am looking forward to some 3DS titles, but I'm not dropping any money till the games are around for it.

And Nintendo will still rake in millions by recycling their franchises for the next generation.

This Just in: Micheal Pachter Reads the news

DVS BSTrD:
This Just in: Micheal Pachter Reads the news

I was going to say "Patcher predicts water wet," but I like yours better.

A Prediction to fulfill a previous prediction? I think someone wants a self-fulfilled prophecy and honestly Mr. Pachter does more harm than good to the video game industry when making these predictions. It prevents developers who want to take that risk to just stop. This is why you don't have someone's job to be a predictor and then have everyone else try and read into it.

Zachary Amaranth:

DVS BSTrD:
This Just in: Micheal Pachter Reads the news

I was going to say "Patcher predicts water wet," but I like yours better.

Indeed. In other breaking news "The sky is still blue and cancer is still bad."

Diddy_Mao:

Indeed. In other breaking news "The sky is still blue and cancer is still bad."

Actually, with Patcher's track record, if he said the sky was blue, I'd check my window first thing.

I'm not saying he's always wrong, as this is a case of him being right (though on the blatantly obvious), but anything he said I agreed with would be cause for me to re-evaluate.

I'm always torn on Michael Patcher. Part of me wishes people would stop reporting his insane claims so maybe he'd go away, but another part of me wonders what crazy stuff he's gonna say next.

I have a feeling this is why people watch Jersey Shore.

Diddy_Mao:

Zachary Amaranth:

DVS BSTrD:
This Just in: Micheal Pachter Reads the news

I was going to say "Patcher predicts water wet," but I like yours better.

Indeed. In other breaking news "The sky is still blue and cancer is still bad."

YOu positive on the second one? Seems like a grey area.

By trying to be 'different' with the tablet controller, they have complicated game design for developers, who can't figure out if the Wii U will ultimately support only one or multiple controllers," he said. "Nintendo made the device sufficiently different..

Ok, really, why is everyone acting like Nintendo has just handed game developers a fucking 20-sided Rubix Cube? It's a PS3 Controller with a touch screen on it. Not exactly quantum physics.

Where was all this commotion and predictions of demise when Sony added the oh-so-puzzling second analog stick? What about the SNES decision to add *gasp* L and R buttons?!

Yes, it's different enough to add a bunch of things that can be unique to the WiiU (which is a very good thing), but it's not like devs have a completely different control scheme to work around like they did with the Wii. It's a standard controller they've been using since the PS2 era, with some new things on it.

Whats this? A Nintendo Console with poor third party support? Wow patcher is so amazing at this, he really comes out with things no one else would think of. My eyes are open, its a revelation. I mean where would we be without Pachter's amazing pre-cognition? The games industry literally woldn't funtion, we couldn't see anything of what was coming! Thank god he was able to predict this one. He really is a genius.
A GENIUS. I cannot priase this mans original insights far enough, hes so apart from what is obvious, hes out there in a leauge of his own, on the edge predicting the unexpected with pinpoint accuracy. Again what an incredible man. Wow.

Well i mean its not like its been that way for three whole generations now is it?

I've been visiting this website since 2008 and I still have no idea who this Pachter fellow is or why we listen to anything he says. Not that I don't agree with his assessment that Nintendo is in a glorious imploding tailspin of doom that will hopefully crescendo with the Wii U being DOA when it finally hits shelves, it's just far as I can tell he's some random jackass on the internet who makes predictions that have been made by the average forum goer already.

It depends on how strong the wii u is graphics wise, if they use the Wii's momentum to sucker punch past owners with a full priced console this gen, then they might get to have some of the other games on the wii u as well. However if they duck out of hardware, then the best I see them getting is indie games.

Mr. Omega:

By trying to be 'different' with the tablet controller, they have complicated game design for developers, who can't figure out if the Wii U will ultimately support only one or multiple controllers," he said. "Nintendo made the device sufficiently different..

Ok, really, why is everyone acting like Nintendo has just handed game developers a fucking 20-sided Rubix Cube? It's a PS3 Controller with a touch screen on it. Not exactly quantum physics.

Where was all this commotion and predictions of demise when Sony added the oh-so-puzzling second analog stick? What about the SNES decision to add *gasp* L and R buttons?!

Yes, it's different enough to add a bunch of things that can be unique to the WiiU (which is a very good thing), but it's not like devs have a completely different control scheme to work around like they did with the Wii. It's a standard controller they've been using since the PS2 era, with some new things on it.

Well, I agree that the controller has evolved with each console, but they all have been variants around the keyboard/mouse input used with PCs (from my view). Before consoles, that is what programmers and game developers worked with and understood. Okay maybe it changed slightly when analog sticks where introduced, but that is just a variant of the mouse input method.

Nintendo really changed this with the Wii-mote (and back then with the Power-glove--which turned out well). By changing the input device like this, developers have to figure out a way to port their normal input device method from default controllers (like the Xbox 360) to something that could have some latency issues. Then you got more complicated devices like the Kinect which is meant to detect body gestures, but may not work well with a variety of human frames (or size). So developing games with these new input methods is unpredictable for developers.

Plus, if the game doesn't respond so well to the input device being used (Rise of Nightmare?), would the game be fun for players and make it feel like its worth paying $60 bucks for? They need to make the game enjoyable to their consumers--unless their EA.

Now is Patcher right? Eh, I don't think the guy is always right, but there is some good reasoning with his argument here. But, as you put it, its a controller with a touch-screen, and games related to that hardware are very popular with developers, maybe this kind of input device wouldn't be hard to work with.

"By trying to be 'different' with the tablet controller, they have complicated game design for developers, who can't figure out if the Wii U will ultimately support only one or multiple controllers,"

You call that interesting? Really? I could say the exact same thing for the Wii, and all you have to do is replace "tablet" with "motion control". I mean sure, that last part is a little too specific just to replace a word, but that's just a technicality. Besides, devs had to deal with a lackluster motion system before it actually got pushed up to the "Motion +", and if my experience with it tells me anything, is that motion + is just as bad.

This is the guy that seriously believes that PC represents around 1/10th of AAA games sales.

The guy can't even comprehend what digital distribution is.

The guy is a complete and under moron.

I predict Pachter is master of the obvious and still a class A clown. Why people still listen to him and report on it is beyond me. Plant the seed, all it takes is an idea right?

I love the picture :P
I don't think the prediction or the person is as interesting as the reason, so I'm gonna discuss that. In a single player game that's not a problem, so there's no reason third party devs should be worried about it in those kind of games. And with the continuing loss of split-screen :'(, maybe that isn't that much of a problem. Still extremely odd if Nintendo is the one to finally kill split-screen though.

Don't much care for Pachter but he's right on the money here. Although I think he's sorta grasping at low hanging fruit with this prediction though. Nintendo was well on it's way down the path o' failure completely unable to compete with Sony and Microsoft before they caught lightning in a bottle with the Wii. That won't happen a second time.

I'd bet that the Wii-U is going to pick up right where the Gamecube left off. The Wii was a fad that rose above being just a game system. However fads pass and the Wii's time is well past it's prime. Most Wii owners won't know or care about the Wii-U when it's released and gamers largely couldn't be paid to care about Nintendo anymore. Bottom line the Wii only delayed things and Nintendo has been out of their depths in the video game market since the N64.

Who's Michael Pachter? And why should we listen to him?

Shitty support from a seclusive developer that's on a kick of making nothing but gimmicky, difficult-to-develop-for consoles? Michael Pachter is truly a man of prescience.

Pachter saying things that any old person could predict? Whatever in the world is happening!? I still don't understand why we put so much stock in this guy.

Soviet Heavy:
And Nintendo will still rake in millions by recycling their franchises for the next generation.

What kind of bothers me is Nintendo is the only company in the games industry that can do this. They surely have to be near the bottom of the nostalgia well.

God I hope so.

The only somewhat new franchises are either ignored (Pikmin) or were complete accidents that were supposed to be a one region release (Smash Bros).

What's sad is I tried to think of more examples of franchises that came after 1986 from Nintendo, but I can't. I really can't. And one of those two is just their other franchises mashed together.

I guess Pokemon?

cursedseishi:
"By trying to be 'different' with the tablet controller, they have complicated game design for developers, who can't figure out if the Wii U will ultimately support only one or multiple controllers,"

You call that interesting? Really? I could say the exact same thing for the Wii, and all you have to do is replace "tablet" with "motion control". I mean sure, that last part is a little too specific just to replace a word, but that's just a technicality. Besides, devs had to deal with a lackluster motion system before it actually got pushed up to the "Motion +", and if my experience with it tells me anything, is that motion + is just as bad.

It's still pretty terrible.

But part of the draw of the Wii and why it sold so well was the so called 'casual' market. Because if you compare the Wiimote to the average controller, the Wiimote looks well...far less intimidating. It looks simple.

With the WiiU...they appear to be going a complete opposite direction. A controller that looks un-intuitive to use and doesn't look friendly to the average person as the Wiimote.

I guess they're trying to capture the, "Hey, that looks like the iPad I use everyday!" demographic. I dunno. I think the 3DS has kind of shown their true colors, as if the Wii already hadn't.

Is Pachter actually one of those Romani vending machine fortune teller machines, or is that just metaphor?

Cause if he is, that's impressive enough for its own news story.

Frostbite3789:

Soviet Heavy:
And Nintendo will still rake in millions by recycling their franchises for the next generation.

What kind of bothers me is Nintendo is the only company in the games industry that can do this. They surely have to be near the bottom of the nostalgia well.

God I hope so.

The only somewhat new franchises are either ignored (Pikmin) or were complete accidents that were supposed to be a one region release (Smash Bros).

What's sad is I tried to think of more examples of franchises that came after 1986 from Nintendo, but I can't. I really can't. And one of those two is just their other franchises mashed together.

I guess Pokemon?

Starfox? It came out in 1993. And F-Zero, which came out 1990.

Soviet Heavy:

Frostbite3789:

Soviet Heavy:
And Nintendo will still rake in millions by recycling their franchises for the next generation.

What kind of bothers me is Nintendo is the only company in the games industry that can do this. They surely have to be near the bottom of the nostalgia well.

God I hope so.

The only somewhat new franchises are either ignored (Pikmin) or were complete accidents that were supposed to be a one region release (Smash Bros).

What's sad is I tried to think of more examples of franchises that came after 1986 from Nintendo, but I can't. I really can't. And one of those two is just their other franchises mashed together.

I guess Pokemon?

Starfox? It came out in 1993. And F-Zero, which came out 1990.

Neither of those games are really doing a lot of heavy lifting these days though. I can't even remember the last F-Zero release and StarFox hasn't had a decent game in years outside of the 3DS remake of StarFox 64.

While I'm getting the general opinion from people that this Pachter guy is an idiot and suffers a bit from the "Captain Obvious" syndrome, I, not knowing anything about him, have to admit that he does raise a good point.

Nintendo hasn't shown a lot of love to making consoles that seem easy to make third party games for. I'd like to refer to how most of the Wii's best games (that I can think of atm) usually used the Wiimote as a controller and had little, if any motion controls at all. Designers just don't know how to use the motion controls that well, and often gimmick it into their games or make cheap Wii Sports knockoffs.

And the Wii U just looks like the same old complicated system, only instead of a Wiimote and Nunchuk, you got a tablet. I'm not even quite sure if you 'can' have multiple players playing on it at once, from what I've heard (though I haven't been following the Wii U much, I admit). I think it's a bit early to be calling Nintendo out as screwed, but they're certainly relying on their devoted fanbase a lot rather than trying to be conventional and sensible.

Frostbite3789:

Soviet Heavy:
And Nintendo will still rake in millions by recycling their franchises for the next generation.

[quote]What's sad is I tried to think of more examples of franchises that came after 1986 from Nintendo, but I can't. I really can't. And one of those two is just their other franchises mashed together.

I guess Pokemon?

You weren't trying very hard, were you? Let me help.
Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Pokemon, Kirby, Kid Icarus, Donkey Kong Country, Pokemon, F-Zero, StarFox, Advance Wars, Fire Emblem, Pikmin, Warioware, Animal Crossing, Smash Brothers, the games with the Miis.

17 Series. Every one except Kid Icarus has had at least two games during or since the Gamecube started. Honestly, the whole "Nintendo only makes Mario Zelda and *third*" argument is one of the most easily disproved arguments in gaming, and yet it's universally accepted.

more OT, and more critical:
As nice as it is to see "THQ, Codemasters, Sega, Ubisoft, EA, Namco Bandai and Tecmo are in the pipeline.", You know what'd be nicer? Actually knowing what these games are.

For Nintendo's sake I hope Pachter is wrong

We all know the Wii "It prints money" but yes the third party games we're quite bad usually.

For Nintendo to retain brand recognition it does needs some strong support this run.

The thing with Nintendo is that they dare to be different.. to bad sometimes it simply fails.

WiiU, I don't feel allot for it but I hope it gets some good games and good support.

I... what? Seriously? According to Pachter, adding a touchscreen is going to 'confuse developers'?

How in the blue fuck does this make any sense? The single most succesful game platforms of the past decade have bee the iPad and the iPhone: devices which rely solely on touchscreens. Developers have raked in millions coming up with new apps and games that manage to use touchscreen technology to create wildly succesful games.

If Pachter honestly thinks that the industry which created Angry Birds and Fruit Ninja is going to be confused by a tablet controller for the WiiU, then he either knows jack shit about the industry, or it really is in a dire fucking place.

...but wait, didn't Nintendo already release a console with a touchscreen. No, wait, they've released two consoles with touchscreens. The DS and the 3DS! The former was the most successful handheld ever, and the latter is now building up steam and looking to experience a surge in popularity. Both those devices had games developed with touchscreens in mind. Pretty damn good games if I remember correctly. Hell, even Sony has just released a handheld with a touchscreen. These things aren't exactly as rare as hen's teeth anymore.

As has already been stated, this isn't exactly quantum fucking physics. Nintendo is simply incorporating technology that has already been implemented in their handhelds, technology which has dominated the gaming scene outside of the petty console wars. This isn't like the Wii's problem of "How to we translate arm waggles into game actions". If developers can't work out how to best use a touchscreen incorporated into a traditional controller on their own games, then they're either royally incompetent or downright stupid, and have no place working in an industry where such technology is standard.

I doubt he reads any Nintendo related news. Or he simply ignores most of them and reads what "supports" his predictions.

1. Until now, all developer who are developing something for the WiiU said how easy it is to develop games for it. Some of them even said that it's by far the easiest console to develop until now.

2. Reggie Fils-Aime once said that Nintendo won't force the developer to use the screen as they did with the Wii and Motion controls (if they wanted to make a game for the Wii, they had to use the motion controls at least sometimes). So unless the developer wants to use the screen, developing for the WiiU will be simpler.

3. With just 10 seconds brainstorming, I can think pretty much a use for the screen in any game you want. I won't be revolutionary, but it won't also be annoying or bad. They aren't idiots, they are developer. Their whole life is around creating games. If it was hard for them to think of a useful way to use the scree, they wouldn't be working as game developer in the first place.

4. Did he forget about the DS, 3DS (other DS family member), iPod, iPad, iPhone... all those touchscreen systems? As far as I know, DS and the 3DS are already a huge success where developer get millions out of them. the Apple family isn't any further with their apps.

5. Pachter predicted that the 250$ price of the 3DS was right, but that no matter how many games the 3DS has, it will never surpass the DS. He was wrong in both of those predictions.
Why the fuck is something he predicts still considered important? Half of the times, he is wrong, the other half he states the obvious. I wish I had his job.

Pachter predicts failure for Nintendo; with his track record this means they'll curb-stomp all competitors. Again.

gunner1905:
Who's Michael Pachter? And why should we listen to him?

its this guy:
image
and his ball is nothin to fuck with.

he is an industrial analyst. he always has to 'predict stuff' everywhere he can.

Frostbite3789:

Soviet Heavy:
And Nintendo will still rake in millions by recycling their franchises for the next generation.

What kind of bothers me is Nintendo is the only company in the games industry that can do this. They surely have to be near the bottom of the nostalgia well.

God I hope so.

The only somewhat new franchises are either ignored (Pikmin) or were complete accidents that were supposed to be a one region release (Smash Bros).

What's sad is I tried to think of more examples of franchises that came after 1986 from Nintendo, but I can't. I really can't. And one of those two is just their other franchises mashed together.

I guess Pokemon?

Steel Diver. Wii Music. Wii Fit. Wii Play. Wii Sports. Band Bros. Rhythm Tengoku. Mag Kid Slide Adventure. Personal Trainer Walking. Brain-Age. English Training. Money Market DS. Big Brain Academy. Tomodachi Collection. Kiki Tricks. Wii Party. Xenoblade. The Last Story. Pandora's Tower. Zangeki no Reginliev. Captain Rainbow. (these are just the past 5-6 years if you want I can go back even further)

Kid Icarus hasn't seen a new entry in 21 years. That might as well be a new freaking ip.

If that isn't enough then maybe this will cheer you up

Shigeru Miyamoto has revealed that he is working on a new, unannounced game. According to ZoomIn, the famed creator of Mario and Zelda says he's working on an "original" title, in addition to the previously-announced Luigi's Mansion 2 and Pikmin 3.

That's a new mascot title.

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