One Million Moms Want Same-Sex Archie Comic Out of Toys 'R' Us

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"We're sorry the American Family Association/OneMillionMoms.com feels so negatively about our product, but they have every right to their opinion, just like we have the right to stand by ours. Kevin Keller will forever be a part of Riverdale, and he will live a happy, long life free of prejudice, hate and narrow-minded people."

Nicely put, sir.

Nicely put indeed. Seeing two people mutually, and respectfully, together on the front of a book is nothing to get worked up about. It doesn't really matter who they are or what book it's shown on. Seeing this happiness is nice and I wish this kind of thing was an accepted thing way back when.

I've never been a fan of Archie. In my opinion, it has brushed up on topics that made me way more uncomfortable as a kid than seeing two married dudes. Cliched stereo-types, cheating, gluttony and characters over-dramatically indecisive about everything. Bleh, to each their own.

Off topic, the stuffed poo and pee is both very cute and damn gross...

Volf:

JediMB:

Volf:
I'm not going to indulge your strawman.

I don't think you know what a straw man is.

All I'm saying is that if there is no harm in being informed about X, there is no reason to withhold information about X.

Your arguing against informing people about lighting, something I never even mentioned.

It's called an analogy.

If you can't tell an analogy from a straw man... I don't even know what to say.

Hmm, what year is it again?

JediMB:

Volf:
The subject of homosexual marriage is still controversial, and its not at all like lighting.

It is exactly like lightning in that knowing of its existence and being informed about it is in no way harmful.

If the human psyche was fully understood your statement would have some merit, but as it's not, you don't really have any basis for making that claim.

They need to stop spinning this bullshit, pull their thumbs out of their arses, and simply tell their children, it's not hard, it won't take long, and they can get back to previously mentioned thumbs in arses later.

Some people are just so aggressively narrow minded, it's ridiculous.

Akalabeth:

JediMB:

Volf:
The subject of homosexual marriage is still controversial, and its not at all like lighting.

It is exactly like lightning in that knowing of its existence and being informed about it is in no way harmful.

If the human psyche was fully understood your statement would have some merit, but as it's not, you don't really have any basis for making that claim.

And your claim just now can be applied to pretty much anything, rendering it pointless semantics at best.

Akalabeth:

JediMB:

Volf:
The subject of homosexual marriage is still controversial, and its not at all like lighting.

It is exactly like lightning in that knowing of its existence and being informed about it is in no way harmful.

If the human psyche was fully understood your statement would have some merit, but as it's not, you don't really have any basis for making that claim.

If by applying your logic I could make a "reasonable" argument that ANYTHING is harnful for a child to know.

There is nothing that points to the fact that knowledge of the existence of homosexuals is more harmful to a child than any other knowledge.

I haven't read Archie in... well I've never read those comics in the first place. how long has the couple been in the comics anyway? and what's the point other than dropping the drama bomb?

People still read Archie?

I kidd, I kidd. Mostly.

But, as to the topic on hand, it's almost like they want children to grow up seeing gay marriage as something as accepted and commonplace as regular marriage--whoa! It baffles the mind! I daresay I'm outraged! How dare they try to expose my children to marriage!

Gotta love the way the world is changing.

JediMB:

Akalabeth:

JediMB:

It is exactly like lightning in that knowing of its existence and being informed about it is in no way harmful.

If the human psyche was fully understood your statement would have some merit, but as it's not, you don't really have any basis for making that claim.

And your claim just now can be applied to pretty much anything, rendering it pointless semantics at best.

Not at all, so far as I am aware there is no scientific understanding for why a person is Gay or Straight, just as there is no understanding for why one person is extravert and one person is introvert. Though since it is more likely a product of their personality and less a product of genetics, one cannot preclude the possibility that exposure to more concepts at a young age can have an influence on children.

And while being gay itself is certainly not harmful, it can be construed as harmful so far as the propagation of the species is concerned.

Thus you can not say with any certainty that it is "in no way harmful" because it has not been proven to be the case one way or the other.

True love is real, if one person is labeled a girl and the other a guy.

The times they are a changin'. Kudos to you Archie Comics for staying with them. (I guess I always thought it would be Jughead that came out.)

Kids today are colorblind and ridiculously tolerant of everything. They don't care about race, creed, color, or sexual orientation. My 13-yr old daughter has informed me repeatedly that she wants a male gay friend. Gay culture is everywhere. You pretty much have to keep your kid in a box, in the basment of a cave on the moon to keep it away from them.

Gay isn't for me. But I don't have the balls to think I should make that call for somebody else. My kids have seen some pretty racy stuff in their lives and they have had questions. When that happens, you treat them with respect and explain to them what they are seeing. Take 5 freakin' minutes and pass on some knowledge. They will respect you for it.

These (few thousand) MillionMoms should explain what's happening in Riverdale if their kid asks about it. Odds are they won't. And when the moms explain "These two men are getting married." the kid will either say "Ewww." or "Why?" or "Where's the lady?" or "Is that allowed?" or "Why can't planes fly backwards?". If they're too young, the attention devoted to this topic will be brief. If they're old enough to dwell on it, then they should probably be better informed about gay partners. Too little information is always more dangerous than too much.

What's the point of censoring a comic cover from a store when there's much larger things that would cause kids to question it. Two men holding hands in public? Would you tell them to kindly keep it to themselves so they don't make your kid think? Honestly I think a kid would notice that way before accidentally stumbling upon a comic cover.

As it is, I hate how gay interest is completely avoided in children's shows. It actually makes me rather glad that someone has finally had the balls to do it. It shouldn't be forced into children's media, but at the very least it should be acceptable to show in it. Public backlash be damned! I am glad to see someone sticking up for their beliefs like this.

EDIT: Some people try to argue their point by saying "Where does it stop?". You could use that argument in so many different contexts. What about interracial marriage? I'm sure that people were saying the exact same thing back when that was seen as a morally dubious issue. Something like this should never be dismissed just because of what issues may need to be considered after it.

Skullkid4187:
When did the Escapist become the head of internet politics?

Considering how little real world news I get... I'll take it... and I'll take it gladly.

OT: I expected to read that Toys R'Us folded at the first sign of hotility, but I am pleased to see that I am wrong.

Volf:

Realitycrash:

Volf:
Yes it does, the depriving comment is hypocritical and that is what I was pointing out.

I'm sorry, how is it hypocritical? If you refer to "Well, Porn isn't allowed!", well, that's because we got laws that say "No, you can't have that". There is no law against displaying two men getting married in a way that children can see it. There is one against displaying pornographic material, though.

Okey, well, actually, when I think about it, there isn't one (as far as I know) that is against displaying racist material to children. So go ahead. If you wanna print up a neo-nazi comic and manage to get Toys R Us to shelve it, I will support your right. Then me and pretty much everyone else will get it removed by appealing to standards of decency.

What, you think gay-marriage isn't "decent standard"? Fair enough. Too bad most people are changing their views now. I.e: Your standards are shit out of luck.

I never said it wasn't "decent", so cut with the strawman.

If anything, it's controversial.

Would you like to know what else was once controversial? The appearance of a black man as an astronaut in the comic "Judgement Day". The reprint of the comic was protested by the Comics Code Authority administrator and came close to being censored. (On a side note, this event is what led to the foundation of Mad Magazine, which has infuriated parents' groups for decades.) I guess they shouldn't have run it since it was "controversial" back in 1953, hm? Wouldn't want to force little white kids to deal with the idea of a black man going to space and being a representative of his species.

Or, hey, you know, these busybody parents could spent more time monitoring their kids and less time trying to dictate what anyone can do, say or sell. A man can dream....

Archie has some balls having this cover and i salute them. When i read "A soldier comes home from the war to marry his boyfreind" i was like "Oh snap!". Seriosuly this goes stright to the heard of the modern biggotry in society. Here we have an openly gay man, a solider no less, having a perfectly normal wedding to someone he loves. In the Wake of "don't ask don't tell" and the quite recent onslaught of the 'christian' right on gay rights in some areas this has depth and subtext most adults could do with processing.

Their biggoted brains just can't handle this. Its such a matter of a fact thing and its presented so normally its wonderful. Archie and Toys R us are like; "Yeah, there are gay people in the army, in the suburbs and they get married now. Whats the big deal?" and for that we should all be glad.

This always confuses me about these situations. I remember reading a book called "Bad Kitty's Christmas" (shut up, I don't care if they're for kids, they're funny) and I was looking at reviews on Amazon and it had a 1 star review from a woman that said she didn't like it because they said Kitty's neighbours were lesbians and she didn't want to have to explain gay sex to her child or expose them to such horrors at that age.

Now that's the problem: little kids don't know about sex. To them, mommy and daddy made a wish and the kid was born because of that or something, usually you don't tell them about that until they're 10 or 11 or whenever they ask. Kid asks "What's gay?", you say "It means they love each other the way mommy and daddy do", nothing else! Sure, inquisitive kids might ask more questions but there are tactful ways to explain their relationships to them beyond "well little Timmy, our neighbours like to (insert acts that would get me banned if I typed them out) while they (more acts) and then when they want a child they (adopt/surrogate/get a donor)".

Seriously One Million Moms, get over it. Gay people exist, you can't shelter your kids from that for very long unless you want them to grow up in a household raised on fear and denial.

bringer of illumination:

Akalabeth:

JediMB:

It is exactly like lightning in that knowing of its existence and being informed about it is in no way harmful.

If the human psyche was fully understood your statement would have some merit, but as it's not, you don't really have any basis for making that claim.

If by applying your logic I could make a "reasonable" argument that ANYTHING is harnful for a child to know.

There is nothing that points to the fact that knowledge of the existence of homosexuals is more harmful to a child than any other knowledge.

That depends upon your definition of harmful. As I said in a previous post, homosexuality is not in itself harmful, but homosexuality as a widespread phemonenon would obviously have a tendency to reduce propagation leading to less new children being born in each successive generation. Birth rates are already considered a problem in the developed world by some people, to promote a further decline can indeed be construed as harmful.

That's not to say I necessarily agree with their viewpoint. But to dismiss something as not harmful when the phenomenon of a thing is not fully understood is an error I believe.

Similarily, your previous post in which you attacked the mother's viewpoint for their belief that concept of gay marriage is too difficult to understand is likewise erroneous. Children do not understand what is involved in a mature adult relationship, in the same way that young adults and adolsecents do not understand. There is a reason why maturity plays a factor in one's selection of a mate, and it's because the necessities of a relationship change over time. What an 18 year old understands as a relationship is not the same as what a 30 year old understands, assuming that both have matured at a rate relative to their age.

So even the concept of love between two partners is foreign to a child and cannot be understood, whether those partners are straight or otherwise.

For a child love is probably just a word, a word which is only understood in the context of the relationship between that child's parents. And sure a child can superimpose that same relationship on the relationship of two men, but when you get to the subject of where babies come from then what? If a man and a woman come together out of love to make a baby, why then do a man and a man come together?

The overall point is that the image does raise more complex issues than what you have represented it to be. And for these mothers, they apparently are of the viewpoint that such complex questions should be approached at a later age where the individual can better appreciate the reasons why things are as they are.

The Rogue Wolf:

Volf:

Realitycrash:

I'm sorry, how is it hypocritical? If you refer to "Well, Porn isn't allowed!", well, that's because we got laws that say "No, you can't have that". There is no law against displaying two men getting married in a way that children can see it. There is one against displaying pornographic material, though.

Okey, well, actually, when I think about it, there isn't one (as far as I know) that is against displaying racist material to children. So go ahead. If you wanna print up a neo-nazi comic and manage to get Toys R Us to shelve it, I will support your right. Then me and pretty much everyone else will get it removed by appealing to standards of decency.

What, you think gay-marriage isn't "decent standard"? Fair enough. Too bad most people are changing their views now. I.e: Your standards are shit out of luck.

I never said it wasn't "decent", so cut with the strawman.

If anything, it's controversial.

Would you like to know what else was once controversial? The appearance of a black man as an astronaut in the comic "Judgement Day". The reprint of the comic was protested by the Comics Code Authority administrator and came close to being censored. (On a side note, this event is what led to the foundation of Mad Magazine, which has infuriated parents' groups for decades.) I guess they shouldn't have run it since it was "controversial" back in 1953, hm? Wouldn't want to force little white kids to deal with the idea of a black man going to space and being a representative of his species.

Or, hey, you know, these busybody parents could spent more time monitoring their kids and less time trying to dictate what anyone can do, say or sell. A man can dream....

I agree that parents should take more interest in what kids view, and one way they can do that is by contacting the comic company

Allow me to summarize every comment in this thread.

One Million Moms can go fuck themselves!

Andy Chalk:
snip

The funny part is... The Military doesn't recognize the marriage, so technically, according to the Military, he's single and won't collect BAH, BAS, and be authorized housing for being married..... and sodomy is against Military Regulations as a unauthorized sex position I kid you not, but, it's not like they will be looking in your window or stalk you go after work.

OT.... who cares? It's a comic, if they want to boost sales or kill their fan base, let them.

As a straight male this infuriates me. Why do mom's get to make up numbers and exaggerate their number of members? Then as a white male I am forced to back up my claims of membership with truth? The 1,000,000 2fishes will take forever at this rate.

I find this issue funny.
Q: How do I explain gay people to my kid?
A: the same way you explain those sounds the kid heard when you were having sex.
The when people love each other speech. The kid doesn't have the experience to understand gay vs straight.

Once this pointless debate is over what will we decide to hate next? We have already sent the hate train at women, African Americans, and are currently working on gay people.

I want to see clowns. If we let clowns marry...the next thing you know we will have men breeding with fish.

Gay marriage is nothing. Get kids off freakin' cellphones until they're 18.

Zer_:
Allow me to summarize every comment in this thread.

One Million Moms can go fuck themselves!

No, see, if they fucked themselves they would also be gay, and that's what they're against.

Bad jokes aside, I think it says something about society that my biggest revelation upon reading this is "TRU sells comics."

JediMB:

image

I haven't followed that comic in forever... is that the copy? Or is that the guy that can turn into a girl?

So it's totally cool for boys to get little toy soldiers from Toys 'R' Us and have fun pretending that they're killing each other... and it's totally cool for girls to get little toy home appliances from Toys 'R' Us and have fun pretending they're housewives or maids... and the "One Million Moms" don't see a single thing wrong with that?

They don't think that the horrors of warfare and the bonds of gender roles are maybe more important subjects to sit down and have a talk with their kids about than a loving relationship?

What the hell is wrong with this country?

I'm a little disappointed the comic isn't about Jughead coming out. He and Reggie have a similar frisson to Maddie and David in Moonlighting.

Volf:

The Rogue Wolf:

Volf:
I never said it wasn't "decent", so cut with the strawman.

If anything, it's controversial.

Would you like to know what else was once controversial? The appearance of a black man as an astronaut in the comic "Judgement Day". The reprint of the comic was protested by the Comics Code Authority administrator and came close to being censored. (On a side note, this event is what led to the foundation of Mad Magazine, which has infuriated parents' groups for decades.) I guess they shouldn't have run it since it was "controversial" back in 1953, hm? Wouldn't want to force little white kids to deal with the idea of a black man going to space and being a representative of his species.

Or, hey, you know, these busybody parents could spent more time monitoring their kids and less time trying to dictate what anyone can do, say or sell. A man can dream....

I agree that parents should take more interest in what kids view, and one way they can do that is by contacting the comic company

Or they could just not buy their kids comics they don't agree with? I suppose we ought to prevent interracial marriages appearing too, since some people think they're wrong. Hmm. Islam can pose a bit of a danger to little white Christian Americans, so maybe we should prevent dark-skinned characters appearing in comic books unless they're the bad guys.

Look. The point is simple. Just because you have an opinion on a certain subject, does not mean that you have the right to force everybody else to follow that opinion. There is a world outside their narrow-minded views, and the only way their kids are gonna grow up properly is if they get to see it. Clearly these 'One Million Moms' are uncomfortable with their kid seeing this stuff because it goes against their...religion...I suppose? I don't even know why they're so against it.
But then - if they didn't see it, they'd grow up to be good little bigots like their mothers. Which is exactly what they want.

Until they find another issue besides trying to force retailers to kowtow to their rampant homophobia, calling themselves "One Million Moms" is going to be a misnomer in so many ways...

Tree man:

No it's not, because by that logic the opinion of Hitler, the SS and the entire Nazi party was just as valid as the people they murdered. If your opinion is based on ignorance then it is wrong. Plain and simple.

Volf:
yes it does mean that their not wrong, because their opinion is just as valid as anybody else.

anthony87:

Their opinion is valid but they're still wrong.

And to anyone else I've missed

Opinions cannot be valid. Validity is cemented in facts, and opinions are the antithesis of facts.

And more directly to Volf. Opinions are beliefs, and beliefs CAN be wrong.

I can believe that the moon is made of cheese all I like... but it will never be true.

"We're sorry the American Family Association/OneMillionMoms.com feels so negatively about our product, but they have every right to their opinion, just like we have the right to stand by ours. Kevin Keller will forever be a part of Riverdale, and he will live a happy, long life free of prejudice, hate and narrow-minded people."

Well done sir, well done.
image

Oh no! Archie Comics are commenting on a current issue in a mature way! This really shouldn't be a problem just because some people are too fucking lazy or dense to explain to their kids that some men love other men.

You know, I think its the ingrained image of the ideal "nuclear family" from back in the 50s that these people seem to want to keep around. Not saying its a bad thing, but come on. This isnt the 50s, worlds changing everyday, and trying to keep such ideas are going to only make those changes more painful as time wanes on.

I think this group should rename it self "One Million Morons."

It makes me sad that people can be so narrow minded. Let's just hope they fail in passing their prejudices on to their children.
Also, I hate it when people insist that everyone should be deprived of material they find offensive. I'd wager that the number of mothers who object to this comic is dwarfed by those who don't.

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