BioWare "Falsely Advertised" Mass Effect 3 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 . . . 16 NEXT | |
First, there is a differnce between a marketing slogan and a promised feature. Second, some terms are based solely in the subjective (best, epic) while others can be quantified to some degree. ME3 might have completely different experiences to you, and you might also think Luigi was a completely unique character, not Mario in green, but to the BBB it might not measure up to their definition, one perhaps mired in copyright infringement cases where they have to determine if something has enough originality to be it's own creation, or a blatent knock off to be sued. Look, I get your fears, but I'm not a fan of the oppiste end of the spectrum either: one where companies can mislead through advertising and completely cast off fan wishes and expectations in the name of "art". Bioware's been good with taking risks in the past, but they picked the wrong time and way this go around. | |
i feel really bad for the writers at bioware right now, as an artist myself all i can imagine is them slumped down behind a desk hating their life cause people are practically wishing death upon them for there work. Which is one of the most heart breaking things ive seen out of this whole ending debate. if i ever meet them im buying them a drink. They don't deserve this crap that the retakers are giving them. | |
Wow, someone in a high up position thinks that retake ME3 is right? That's very interesting. | |
Meh, a small moral victory. Don't promise features you can't or won't deliver. It's that simple. As for Mass Effect, everyone lost, except EA who's shoveling our money into their pit going directly to satan, who then soaks the bills in the tears of the fans and of those laughing at the fans. Meanwhile EA gets more underhanded deals to acquire more companies to screw up future sequels we all want. The circle of grief continues. | |
Alright... Now can we STFU about this? Seriously. Bioware didn't go back in time and rape you as a child. They made a shitty ending, again. You expected less? Can we get over it? Can we go on with our lives? I am sick and damn tired of people going on about this. Speak with your wallet and never buy Bioware products again if you feel you have been so mistreated. Guess what... you're not going to do it. Been hearing the same thing for so many of their games. People keep coming back for more. You are like an abused spouse. They keep hurting you but you come back for more because you LOVE THEM. STFU and leave them... or enjoy the next 50+ hour RPG they make. | |
There's an interesting story about the shipped ME3 ending, actually... Drew Karpyshyn, the original Mass Effect writer, had planned a very different ending. Now, it wasn't the best ending in the world from what I've seen leaked of it. But it fit with the game's lore and asked some pretty hard questions. Bioware tossed it out, and replaced it with the ending which actually shipped with the game: a simple cliché waste of time, which asks no hard questions and had no real consequences. I'm not privy to the discussions at BioWare that led to the change... But I'd hazard a guess that "playing it safe" had a lot to do with it. I am frankly baffled as to why you think that the disastrous results of playing it safe will lead to more companies following suit. If anything, it's going to steer companies away from wimpy endings and towards making statements and asking hard questions. The present fiasco has more than made clear that gamers demand it. | |
Interestingly their response to the indoctrination theory was very intentionally vague when asked at the PAX East panel. They even mentioned that the ending DLC's "content (should) speak for itself" in the very same response. I have half a suspicion that they'll go along with it, claim it was their vision all along, and thousands of people will justifiably call bullshit on that claim. So OP is right. Things are gonna keep on rumbling as they've been, and with the DLC we'll see either resurgence of rage and opposition, or finally a calm conclusion to all this, depending on how competently the DLC is done. | |
Continually pointing at him and saying "zomgz troll" without contributing to the discussion yourself is just as annoying. Simmer down.
This pretty much sums up my point of view here. Yes Bioware dropped the ball pretty spectacularly on this but there is no way they deserve this level of flak for it. They've already said they'll try and provide some closure, there's little else they can do without totally compromising their vision for the series. Give them a break, let them do their job and see what they come up with. Bioware are good at learning from their mistakes and if the new DA3 brief is anything to go by they've definitely realised they need to take fan input onboard when developing their games. Give them a chance. | |
I still stand by everything I've written (mjones916.wordpress.com, everybody!) but *grits teeth* the fans are kinda right, here. | |
Me? Him? The other guy? Bioware? | |
MovieBob is quite often wrong, or just whining. He is a film critic. His analysis is usually less than scientific. The difference is George Lucas did not botch his original work. Bioware Botched their original work. yes they are changing their art for customers who PAY money for their art. Their art was a success visually. The writing of Mass Effect 3 was sub par. If Bioware cannot write good endings (as evidenced by Dragon Age II, and Mass Effect 3) then I will not PAY money for their art. I won't participate in their art. I am not entitled to a good ending. If I don't get good endings I will cease being a bioware customer. If all the 'retake mass effect fans' feel the same way then THEY will stop being a bioware customer. This will cause Bioware to lose money. In turn they will then realize they have to make the art the customer wants. I am OK with this arrangement. This is how many people who are upset over the ending feel. The mass effect 3 ending Ruined the otherwise good art. Therefore as a customer I have lost faith in Bioware. | |
I also want to note MovieBob berated the ME fanbase in the same breath as whining about Micheal Bay getting the TMNT franchise. | |
Im with you on this. Buy them all a round and then another. They seriously need something after all this 'hate hate hate' their getting. | |
Oh, you are one of those ignorants that thinks we are angry because the ending isn't happy and full of sunshine. I thought you died out two weeks ago. You know, when everyone who actually was interested in the case either discovered the major flaws in the endings and shut the hell up about his strawman arguments, or lives in denia... oooh. Okay. Remember, the government is lying, and you 14 year old anarchists is all standing between them and world domination!
Don't forget the "There are 16 different endings" and "It's won't be as simple as making an A, B or C ending and picking one!" promises. | |
The 'vocal minority' argument is usually an insulting waste of time. Every issue that has ever existed has been championed by a 'vocal minority'. It's hardly worth pointing this out on a specific case. If they really feel vindicated that their forum users aren't necessarily representative of their entire customer base, then good for them, I guess. Gamers get lied to so often and so outrageously I'm surprised this is the opportunity people took to get mad about it. I think there are worse examples. But in absolute terms, I think Bioware totally has it coming. If you don't want a shit-storm, try not lying to people. | |
Well technically there are sixteen different endings. They are just all 99.9% the same. | |
It'll be interesting to see how many people's humor receiver arrays require recalibrating. | |
Also this. These guys are human beings as well. Try putting yourself in their shoes, I can guarantee you wouldn't enjoy this one bit. | |
If it were any other product and people felt it didn't live up to the advertising, they would just return it for a refund. Game companies can release shit in a box and you can't do a damn thing about it. Don't give me that license crap, either. Even if you believe you are buying a license, a license can be refunded easier than a physical product. | |
If a company makes a product that consumers do nto like they will be less inclined to have those customer's sales in the future. If A company bothches something for a customer do they deserve their future business? If the answer is yes than it is the company with the entitlement. At this point I probably will not buy the next Bioware game. I no longer care for their art. If they fix the ending and it is what was promised, I will reconsider. If this in the future means that game developers will not push the limit on their stories, I am OK with that considering the mass effect 3 ending was botched. I don't watch M. Night Shalamalan Movies. I certainly don't need his poor attempt at endings in my games. I expected better quality from bioware. It seems only Bethesda can deliver quality now. | |
I don't think you watched that video all the way through bud. | |
This is getting way out of hand. You don't sue people for making a bad movie sequels why should ME3 be any different. And if you do sue people for a bad film then F you dude, you are the reason why we can't have any nice things. And honestly I'm wondering how will they talk me into thinking that ending which we were given has any meaning. On the other hand I'd be probably happy with some vlogs about their thought process while they were making it (coke orgy would be crush my dreams so hard :D). Was it bad? Yeah it was pretty god damn terrible but it didn't cause major outbreak of cancer or something, stop freaking out >_< | |
Talking about a quote from his blog actually. | |
There are 9, with 3 colors total. 3 Red (vaporization, bad, good), 2 blue (bad, good) and green (synthesis). And the only difference between Red Bad and Red Good is 5 second cutscene at end. And between others it's also VERY small difference in cutscene.
Did you read the article? It's false advertising. If movie was called Harry Potter and the Wizard's Spitbucket, and the movie was about a vietnam veteran in a nursery home, you'd also get sued for false advertising. Or a car claimed to be a 2011 model being actually from 2001.
People already gave them a chance with DA2. And while DA2 had room to make mistakes, ME3 didn't. It's the last game in the series, and making the ending a rushed pile of puke can't be fixed anymore. | |
Meaningful is subjective. But look at that link. There are specific promises that were made that were not upheld in the game itself, like the whole thing with the Rachni. | |
This is impossible to happen. Anyone paying a minimum of attention will understand that this is not about happy, sad or bold. It is about quality and promises not fulfilled - to the point of being compared to false advertising. And I'm not just talking about the slogan here, Casey Hudson and Mark Walter's statements were at least misleading (if you are feeling generous). Also, if the press do their jobs right, things will go even smoother. The updated content for the ending did not made things worse. Yeah, some people are still complaining and if the ending turns out to be bad, people will complain a little bit more (with reason), but inaction on the part of Bioware could really hurt the franchise - must fans are now in a wait and see state. The press is handling the matter trying to validate the points they made with the whole artistic integrity fiasco. If someone are to blame for reading what's happening wrong it is the gaming press, unfortunately. | |
Acting like sane human beings is the way to be heard, not by acting like whining 4 year olds, which seems to be a modus operendi of most of the retake mass effect movement. I really liked the cupcake thing, it was a really mature way to poke fun at bioware and make it known that the community didn't like the ending. Even if it was a misuse of a charity, I think the money raised for charity was a good thing. As for the article, I read it on the BBB site and it makes no mention of the ending and the fact that they "falsely advertised" is really a semantics debate. | |
The big difference? When I fuck up, I own up to it and refocus discussion on how I (or we, if appropriate) can fix it. | |
Gotta say, I agree with this. Yes, a lot of BioWare's statements leading up to ME3 before its release were a blatant contradiction to what was actually delivered. Yes, it's an incredibly shitty ending. But ultimately there are no winners here. BioWare is going to lose no matter what they do - they either "cave in" to "compromise artistic integrity" or they stick to their guns and do what they're doing now to add "clarification" to the ending (which by all accounts just leads me to think that they've completely missed the point of the complaints), which is a move that. And the fans aren't going to win here either. Even if they change things, the anger over all of this is going to linger. A new ending that closes the complete WTF logic holes of the current one isn't going to remove the sour taste in the fans' mouth. And of course there are the fans who (wrongly, IMO) argue that this sets precedent, and they certainly wouldn't be happy. EA of course has our money and they've got ownership of the IP since they own BioWare, so they can just keep pumping out Mass Effect games 'till the end of time. Or they can sit on it for a few years until this blows over and then come out with a new, updated version or sequel that relies on nostalgia and advertising to generate sales. Either way I really don't see any winners here except for them - they've got our money from sales and they still have the IP to use as they wish. | |
And they are at least attempting to fix it, without completely changing the way they wanted to make the ending. | |
they botched their product. They got paid for their work. Perhaps in the future they will do a better job because of it. Perhaps this will help them become better writers. Like their predecessor Drew Karpyshyn. He managed to write two good games. | |
Sorry, what? I didn't realise that the original Star Wars films were flawless works of art. I was under the impression that the first Star Wars film suffered from terrible dialogue and choreography, and the Empire was defeated in the third one by an army of teddy bears.
You've completely contradicted yourself here. According to you, the people angry with Bioware don't want a new ending, they're simply going to exercise their right to not buy their next game. Except the whole point about the Retake movement was that people were telling Bioware they would be perfectly happy to pay for a new ending. Which rather shoots that whole "refusing to buy" argument in the foot... It is not up to Bioware to make art that the customer wants. The customer wants a million contradictory things. It is up to Bioware to make the game they want, and it is up to you to decide whether you want to buy it or not. Truly, more bullshit around a single issue I have never seen in a game... | |
Mass Effect's story was built around irony. Nobody got it. | |
No. No, no, no, no. There is just no way that the ending as it stands is what any of the writers at Bioware really intended. I refuse to imagine that an intelligent, decent person who writes for a living would consider that ending complete and final. Of course, now that it's out, everyone in Bioware/EA's employ has to stand by that decision. Not one public statement made since the game came out has come from the heart of any of these people; it's impossible. "We stand by the team's creative vision". That's a sanitized PR line if I ever saw one. | |
Rule 14 of the internet would be appropriate here. Do not argue with (suspected) trolls. It makes for a very unattractive thread.
98% isn't a minority of the voters, but 50k people certainly is a minority of the players. Not to mention that by its very placement (the bioware forums) the results will be skewed towards the opinion of all the people who visited the forum merely to give voice to their discontent. | |
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