BioWare "Falsely Advertised" Mass Effect 3

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That is choice you can take to the bank!

Darkmantle:
...but if all you wanted to do is vent and babble on, more power to ya.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Thank you.

I hope the fat masturbating losers that are keeping this embarrasing mess going get laid soon, they need it.

ITS JUST A GAME. THE ENDING WAS SHIT, GET OVER IT. LIFE IS FULL OF DISSAPOINTMENTS FAR WORSE THAN THIS.

Go live in iran, north korea, zimbabwe or some other shithole, spend a year there then see in the grand scheme of things exactly how life destroying a crap ending to a frankly overrated franchise is. Better yet go to a cancer ward and tell the sick people how frustrated you are i'm sure they will emathise.

sheesh... rant over.

PrototypeC:

Darkmantle:
...but if all you wanted to do is vent and babble on, more power to ya.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Thank you.

Your welcome :D

Of all the things I expected to see this afternoon when I arrived for my weekly dose of Feed Dump and Yatzhee, this was not on the list...

I don't even know what to say... the FTC Complaint guys were in the right? Seriously?

captcha: Question Everything, no kidding, I think I must have woke up in Bizarro-World without realizing it...

Am I the only one that stopped caring? I mean, I consider myself a pretty big Mass Effect fan and thought the ending sucked but I just kinda no longer care.

Here I was thinking that it would be because the ads contain no in game footage, only pre-rendered scenes made specifically for the ads. It would be like a movie trailer made from other movies.

Roboto:

viranimus:

The ending is not specifically the "outcome". Many of the outcomes were decided well before the last 10 minutes of the game as in which civilzations survived and which didnt. The "outcome" extends far beyond the final cut scenes.

I agree with this, but it is a self-undoing argument. Shpoilers

At the end of the day, regardless of what you did in any of the games, the Reapers are no more, everyone is utterly stranded in their home system to perish. That is a constant. Maybe the little details are different (destroy ending: same as above, but now you have to clean up Reaper mess) synthesis: everyone glows, I guess. Control: as above.

Right, the "everyone who comes to Earth to help with the final push is trapped and starves" argument, which is not quite accurate. Firstly, there are other forms of FTL travel that don't include the mass relays, but they're a lot slower, so it'd take longer to return home.

Which leads onto the next idea, namely that appropriate food-production systems can by jury-rigged from all of the scrap now cluttering up the Sol system. If you have the quarians with you, it becomes easier to see how it would work.

Scorpid:

AnarchistAbe:
Jokes on the gamers! Now, we'll get the same exact ending to every fucking game. The safe, happy ending that nobody has grounds to complain about. Thank you, "retakers". Thank you for your entitled douchebaggery.

Are you saying that games endings and stories now are just fine? I agree that "retake Mass Effect" is a bit of a pretentious name, with it never being ours in the first place. But how can you say a demand for coherent interesting story from game developers is going to blow up in our face and give us even LESS ambitious story telling?

It's possible that developers will push out bland, generic stories in an attempt to avoid the kind of backlash that's happened with ME3, deciding that the risk isn't worth it.

Caverat:
Well, it's not like any of the decisions you made in any of the games changed their respective ending in anyway. It boiled down to 'Save the council/Don't save the council' and 'Keep the Collector base/ Don't keep the collector base.' Nothing else done throughout the games changed those endings(Except for the post ending bit in ME2 were some of your team might be dead, the equivalent of which can easily be added to 3 via DLC, but, ultimately didn't change the ending in any way.), I don't see why people have tantrums because the third game followed suit.

The first game was setting the tone, setting up long reaching choices that probably wouldn't make a damn bit of difference in the near future, we were pretty much told that and shown that in every aspect of play, the ending was satisfying and the little choice we had still fit because they were big choices.

With ME2 I have to disagree, the ending did in no way boil down to 'Keep/Destroy Collector Base', that was the minor part, but yet, still with long reaching consequences we could expect to see later on, the true bulk of ME2s ending was your squad, I think decision played a huge part in that ending, there is a massive difference between potentially losing some of your closest squadmates who have potentially been around since the first game and choosing a different coloured laser.

Oh no. No no no. Why did someone even vaguely official have to comment on this?

People are acting like this is the first time that false advertising has been used ever. Do people still actually pay any attention to advertising these days? And believe it? I think this is the problem.

yay, let's justify people's nerd-rage so they feel smart instead of dumb

way to go law!

/sigh
mass effect 3 was all-ways doing to create whining but I never expected this level of melodrama
I'm just glad I never invested myself in the franchise that much

sumanoskae:
But you know what, I WOULD prefer a totally generic ending to this nonsensical dirge, at least if the ending was forgettable (Which is a stupid compliant, because the ending to a story shouldn't function on it's own) I could get passed it. Just appreciate the rest of the game. The ending we got wasn't forgettable, it was much worse, it was damaging. It changes everything about the central conflict of the game, it condemns the characters the bleak, ambiguous fates for no reason other than to make you feel like shit, and then it ends on a sunrise with upbeat techno and tries to tell you things will be okay. It's not just bleak, it's manipulative.

In fact that last statement sums it up pretty well, it serves no purpose other than making you feel like shit. There's no rhyme, no reason, no constancy, just despair.

I WISH it was forgettable.

The only reason I remember it is because people won't shut the fuck up about it. So maybe I'm just weird.

I know how this looks, and trust me, it's not a direct dig at you. I'm just generalizing here.

Frankly this would be news worthy if it came from someone who matter the BBB is a useless corrupt organization best ignored.

Yeah I'm hoping the writer responsible for the ending gets fired, it's been obvious that the promises made were lies since the game was first finished.

I would like to propose a new ending to Mass Effect 3. One where the metal band Sabaton kills all of the Reapers with the Power of Rock and then Commander Shepard rides a flaming black unicorn to do battle with the real enemy, a giant muti-headed crab with dinosaur heads instead of claws. Commander Shepard has to kill the crab/dinosaur with the Spear of Dentistry, also known as Odin's Toothpick...

What? All of this is fucking awesome in my head.

Wait a minute... you mean... advertising lies... or at the very least bends the truth? No... that can't possibly be true, there's no way they would just say things to make people-

You get the idea. It shouldn't come as a surprise by this point that this kind of shit happens. I'm not excusing it either. I hate looking at the back of game boxes and reading, 'BEST MOTHER FUCKING SHIT EVA'! OMGs SWEET GRAPHICS!!! BUY ME!!"

By using this logic. If a child asks a doctor "Will my family member die due to this cancer/disease/poisonous bite" and the doctor promises they will survive, yet they still do die the child is able to sue the doctor for false advertisement.

The ending was SHIT, but you know what? When has gaming ever been about the end goal, gaming has always been about the journey and what you see, experience and interact with along the way. I must say Mass Effect 3's JOURNEY was the best goddamn Journey I played until I played well, Journey. It's like to all these people, they were only playing the Mass effect games because they wanted to see the end, not because they cared about the bits inbetween. Also one more thing. Ever thought that Mass Effect 3 was just one giant end? We see what happens to pretty much EVERY character, including Mordin, Wrex, The illusive man and many more. Don't forget the stuff like curing the genophage, a major part of the universe's lore. It's sad that us games forget all of that because of a crappy ending.

One more thing. I was listening to TotalBiscuit the other day and he brought up a really good point. Last year, would anyone be able to protest for a better ending and actually GET one, no. But now we can because of calm minded, sensible people who try to help the developers become better instead of punishing the developers for doing wrong, if it doesn't work in anything else then how the hell will it work for gaming?

Everyone's mad ahaha!!
I am seriously laughing at all the Masshole butt hurt. As what everyone else has been saying. It's a game, it had a shitty ending, move-the fuck-on with your lives for Christ's sake!
No, you're not doing a justice for those who "Invested" their time into a game series. No you're not preserving any form of artistic integrity and no...Mass Effect is NOT your's to re-take, nor has it ever been. To be perfectly honest, if there wasn't such an outcry from forever alone nerds, being poured into the BBB (seriously? I can't believe you guys took it that far) then I doubt they would have even given a shit.
I've also heard the argument that "Ohh, calling us entitled is just a parrot means to put us down!" well guess what? It IS a term to put you down, because you all ARE whiny, entitled douche bags. The company owes you NOTHING. You bought the game, you enjoyed 98% and didn't like the last 2%, whoopty doo! Anyways I'm going off to have a life, and worry about the things that MATTER.

As art it is above reproach!

Valanthe:
Of all the things I expected to see this afternoon when I arrived for my weekly dose of Feed Dump and Yatzhee, this was not on the list...

I don't even know what to say... the FTC Complaint guys were in the right? Seriously?

captcha: Question Everything, no kidding, I think I must have woke up in Bizarro-World without realizing it...

Escapist gatta' make its money somehow!

Anywho, this article is about some random person at the BBB in Indiana stated that it "appeared" to be false advertising on the ME3 webby. Which is pretty debate-able. Not the FTC, which is... well... federal.

"Like the protected books, plays and movies that preceded them, video games communicate ideas - and even social messages - through many familiar literary devices (such as characters, dialogue, plot, and music) and through features distinctive to the medium (such as the player's interaction with the virtual world)," Justice Antonin Scalia wrote for the Supreme Court on Monday, in a case that arose from a California effort to ban the sale of violent video games to minors. "That suffices to confer First Amendment protection."

Casey Hudson talked about "transcending the medium" so on and so forth, so to really "make" a case, one would seemingly have to "prove" intent to swindle. Good luck with that.

On the one hand... a developer and publisher are able to distance themselves from lawsuits claiming "the game made him/her do it/commit violence/eat chocolate flavored cereal/whatever.

On the other hand... a developer and publisher may also engage in deflecting the discussion to one of subjective "what is art?" "what is choice?" "what contract do we have?" and leave the debate chasing it's own tail forever.

As with anything open to freedom there comes abuse... the other side of the freedom coin.

As an engineer that dabbles in programming and gaming, I like the idea of being able to express myself in the medium, maybe even publish a game in a couple years... nice to not get sued over nonsense. That said, one would think one would put one's best foot forward in one's work, and perhaps that is what is really being debated...

Law... is a good 5~10 years behind the current technology.

Tasteful artistic expression?

or

Nonsense that ignored (bait and switched) the consumer?

Sure;

It's art, but the integrity? (Shrug) Your money, you make the call.

GamesB2:

The first game was setting the tone, setting up long reaching choices that probably wouldn't make a damn bit of difference in the near future, we were pretty much told that and shown that in every aspect of play, the ending was satisfying and the little choice we had still fit because they were big choices.

With ME2 I have to disagree, the ending did in no way boil down to 'Keep/Destroy Collector Base', that was the minor part, but yet, still with long reaching consequences we could expect to see later on, the true bulk of ME2s ending was your squad, I think decision played a huge part in that ending, there is a massive difference between potentially losing some of your closest squadmates who have potentially been around since the first game and choosing a different coloured laser.

This is actually pretty interesting, our views on which bits were the minor/major part of ME2's ending are completely reversed. I see the choice about the Collector base as being the major ending choice, as stopping the Collectors was the point of the second game, the number of friendlies surviving the end mission being irrelevant to the completion of that goal(As they don't effect it what-so-ever). Their presence/absence only resulting in their mostly irrelevant presence/absence in the next game, with the obvious exception of the characters that can actually be squad mates in ME3, but even they are insignificant as there is no shortage of characters and the total number doesn't change anything.

But if you're also saying that once the ending-mod for ME3 is released and if it adds a bit where it explains what happened to each squad member/ally based on your choices throughout all 3 games, that the ending of ME3 will be as significant and fitting as ME2's, on that I will agree.

Oh wow... So having players make several choices in the trilogy and advertising multiple endings when in reality you can be a complete and utter asshole to everyone and still get the same ending as the guy who takes the "Reincarnation of Jesus" route is actually wrong?

HOORAY FOR COMMON SENSE!

ehhh...I think "false advertising" is a bit much

but artistic integrity my ass...

Genixma:
I wonder if the Mass Effect 3 ending is a biggerdisappointment to fans then Duke Nukem Forever's release was...huh.

And now I wait for someone to ask me not to compare the two.

the difference is anyone expecting somthing GREAT from duke nukem forever...well thats just silly

expecting an ending batter than what we got..not silly

Chosen_Chaos:
It's possible that developers will push out bland, generic stories in an attempt to avoid the kind of backlash that's happened with ME3, deciding that the risk isn't worth it.

It's equally possible that developers will take greater care in crafting their stories so that they don't fall apart at the climax - since that's what prompted the backlash in the first place.

Caverat:
But if you're also saying that once the ending-mod for ME3 is released and if it adds a bit where it explains what happened to each squad member/ally based on your choices throughout all 3 games, that the ending of ME3 will be as significant and fitting as ME2's, on that I will agree.

I wouldn't use those terms to describe it, but I will be happier if they actually expand upon what happened to anyone in the galaxy after the ending of ME3, this won't be anywhere near the ending a series like Mass Effect deserved, but it'll be a step in the right direction and another dead franchise.

GamesB2:

I wouldn't use those terms to describe it, but I will be happier if they actually expand upon what happened to anyone in the galaxy after the ending of ME3, this won't be anywhere near the ending a series like Mass Effect deserved, but it'll be a step in the right direction and another dead franchise.

I'll be happier to, I was limited to the actual adverts and most articles hyping ME3, I completely missed any exposure to a claim/promise that the ending of ME3 would be based on 3 games of choices, but that being said, I wasn't pleased with the ending.

AnarchistAbe:

SweetLiquidSnake:

AnarchistAbe:
This makes me want to scream. Entitled douchebags, all of you. No arguments, deep down you all know its true.

Where were all of you on my other post? I made one pointing out that these over-entitled fans should be labeled as "Massholes" and condemned, but the entire post ended up getting flooded with Massholes butthurt about my name calling and tried to tear me a new one.

Glad to see I'm not alone in thinking this is a dead issue.

I've been laughing for like 5 minutes about the term "Massholes" xD That is fantastic!

I like to consider myself 'neutral' in this whole thing. But just as a heads up the minority of people are now the ones who are 'butthurt' (as you put it) about the Retake movement. No one is more angry than the people yelling at them. You may thing that the retake movement is the one who's screaming and yelling and bitching and swearing but it's not. It's You.

having just completed ME3 and ending the journey for my first Shepard (havent finished the story for evil Shepard yet) I too confess myself disappointed.

Udina is Councilor? What happened to my choice at the end of ME1?

Anyway this was supposed to be the ending of a trilogy with all the loose ends tied up in a neat little emotional bundle.

Who lived? Who died?

AnarchistAbe:

SweetLiquidSnake:

AnarchistAbe:
This makes me want to scream. Entitled douchebags, all of you. No arguments, deep down you all know its true.

Where were all of you on my other post? I made one pointing out that these over-entitled fans should be labeled as "Massholes" and condemned, but the entire post ended up getting flooded with Massholes butthurt about my name calling and tried to tear me a new one.

Glad to see I'm not alone in thinking this is a dead issue.

I've been laughing for like 5 minutes about the term "Massholes" xD That is fantastic!

Thank you, I'm glad someone appreciates the term. Please use it frequently!!

ToastiestZombie:
The ending was SHIT, but you know what? When has gaming ever been about the end goal, gaming has always been about the journey and what you see, experience and interact with along the way. I must say Mass Effect 3's JOURNEY was the best goddamn Journey I played until I played well, Journey. It's like to all these people, they were only playing the Mass effect games because they wanted to see the end, not because they cared about the bits inbetween. Also one more thing. Ever thought that Mass Effect 3 was just one giant end? We see what happens to pretty much EVERY character, including Mordin, Wrex, The illusive man and many more. Don't forget the stuff like curing the genophage, a major part of the universe's lore. It's sad that us games forget all of that because of a crappy ending.

Let's be very clear here: the reason the ending has overshadowed the entire journey in "Mass Effect 3" (and I agree with you that the rest of the game provides an excellent, epic story) is that it renders said journey moot. Yes, we can quibble about the potential ramifications of different-colored space magic, but by the end of the game, you have an equal amount of information about each ending - to the extent that you don't even have enough information to extrapolate which option is the "best" one for your Shepard (ie: the path your character would roleplay).

That's why the controversy over the ending has been so vehement, so powerful and forceful, and why it's drowning out anything and everything that's good about the game. Because, on the narrative level, the ending just doesn't fit. Square peg, round hole. And that incongruity is just... well, as I was saying to a friend the other day, this game could've been remembered as one of the best: a fresh SF franchise, an epic story, memorable characters, all of that. Instead it's a punchline for webcomics. And all because, according to comments made at PAX, the dev team didn't actually think players would care how the story ended.

And why is this happening with "Mass Effect" and not, say, "Duke Nukem"? Well, as Vault101 points out upthread, this also has to do with expectations. If the original ending for ME3 had been implemented - where you choose between sacrificing humanity to save the universe or destroy the Reapers and hope for the best - people would've been annoyed, certainly, but it would never have reached the sheer scale we're at now. This month-long explosion isn't being caused by entitlement, it's not being caused by fanboys whining, it's not egotism or naivete or selfishness or anything like that. It's the recognition that this ending is lazy, poorly written, sloppy, and - most damning of all - it didn't need to be that way.

The fact that BioWare is addressing this issue isn't a reason for people to pull at their hair and declare video games a lost cause: if anything, it's proof that video games can be considered art or a new form of literature, that people care about the story rather than simply shooting at things, that it matters when you experience a coherent and well-written narrative and get sucker-punched by a sloppy conclusion. Other forms of literature are revised all the time, we have director's cuts of films which add scenes or contexts (and it's often an improvement - the Final Cut of "Blade Runner" is absurdly superior to the original and I think all they did was cut out Harrison Ford's unnecessary narration and let the scenes speak for themselves). And now we have a video game that's recognized for excellent storytelling, in which the creators recognize a flaw and are preparing to address it. And if they deliver a better ending - not necessarily a happier one, but a better one - then as far as I'm concerned all is forgiven.

And maybe, just maybe, they'll make more of an effort to maintain the standard of "art and story" in the future.

doggie015:
Oh wow... So having players make several choices in the trilogy and advertising multiple endings when in reality you can be a complete and utter asshole to everyone and still get the same ending as the guy who takes the "Reincarnation of Jesus" route is actually wrong?

HOORAY FOR COMMON SENSE!

Not really on anyone's side in this...

You mention advertising, where is that advertising? The advertising on the ME3 website:

"Along the way, your choices drive powerful outcomes, including relationships with key characters, the fate of entire civilizations, and even radically different ending scenarios."

All that is true.

Asshole ending, is clearly a different color than Jesus ending. Not only that, but there is an additional scene for being a super asshole.

We have to "shoot the tube", the cause, to get the "effect". That is choice. There are even little differences in the scenes of those choices based on WA. Heck one may even just stand around, and die, which is a choice of no choice. Heck that is emergent game-play right there.

"Common Sense"... just an ambiguous assertion... weee fallacies.

From a "legal" standpoint... software, which this clearly is, simply must "function", that is... it starts. I am not even sure it actually has to do anything beyond take up resources.

Sure the ending is a steaming pile of rushed shit, (news flash - the whole game is rushed shit), but that is irrelevant.

So it's Software, that runs.
So it's Art, subjective interpretation without a sound epistemological basis to call it.
So it's a lie, EULA anyone? Contract?

Listening to a developer is like dating the hot chick thinking "your the only one".

AnarchistAbe:
I've been laughing for like 5 minutes about the term "Massholes" xD That is fantastic!

Don't worry, I understand. If I worked at an IT helpdesk, I'd be taking any opportunity to vent my impotent rage, no matter how juvenile.

Just keep crying and pounding on the metaphorical floor. Get it out of your system. I'm not going to begrudge you the catharsis.

If you start feeling better and want to participate in some adult discussion, we're not far away.

*Checks BBB site*

And Bioware hasn't paid BBB the requisite bribe for better press fee for BBB accreditation. Why am I not surprised?

This is really getting silly now, Bioware did bad, that much is true but gawd damn there is no more "debate" left in this arguement, its devolved into a bloody mess.

*sigh*

I enjoy debate, this is just hate.

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