Two LulzSec Members Plead Guilty To DDOS Attacks

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If they had restrained themselves to Sony, Twentieth Century Fox, et. al., they might have had a better chance of getting away with it. Likewise if they had known when to stop. Unfortunately, their "hacktivism" quickly began to resemble a group of small boys with a grocery bag full of illegal fireworks.

Esotera:

If they had actually had a point behind what they were doing, then I'd feel slightly sympathetic, but they were just bored kids who decided to be massive douchebags. If they had legitimately cared about the security of the targetted sites they would have not DDOSed, and they wouldn't have made public leaks of confidential information. Their case is about the only time when I've wanted someone to get a long sentence for hacking.

There's an xkcd comic for every occasion...

I personally think it's not a big deal (in line with the third panel), the biggest inconvenience for users was a password reset. For the businesses ... honestly I don't care for them, they are fine. I hope they don't get harsh sentences. It's not like they actually hurt someone.

And his legal team pull the ASD card. Again.

Seriously, it does nothing to mitigate sentencing, and makes it harder for the rest of us to get a job in *any* field if we have to disclose at interview.

I find it incredibly interesting that laws exist that protect corporate ineptitude as well as corporate greed but we can take a year to focus on punishing those evil evil hackers that are manipulating everyone out of their money, demanding digital distribution as a means to undermine economic stability and then subject personal information obtained through that campaign to easy unsolicited access.... oh wait, thats not right.

Pickapok:
Am I the only one offended by the "Asperger's syndrome sufferer" comment?

I see a lot of people saying it was unnecessary (and I agree), but as far as I have seen most of us "aspies" manage to get along just fine once we've escaped that hell called Middle School. We're quite comfortable with our condition and not "suffering" at all, thank you very much.

I would tend to agree. But there is still a cultural bias. One that has been put on display in The Big Bang Theory:

image

viranimus:
I find it incredibly interesting that laws exist that protect corporate ineptitude as well as corporate greed but we can take a year to focus on punishing those evil evil hackers that are manipulating everyone out of their money, demanding digital distribution as a means to undermine economic stability and then subject personal information obtained through that campaign to easy unsolicited access.... oh wait, thats not right.

I find it incredibly interesting that people feel that criminals should get a free pass because 'fuck big corporations'.

GiglameshSoulEater:
Well, at least America haven't actually nicked these (like that innocent guy a while back), and let us handle them.

Lethos:
Why do all the hackers I read about end up being British? Does this country have some sort of hacker-child training programme or what?

Well, I have seen a university course for 'ethical' hacking. No joke.

Its true I'm currently doing it for my degree. Hacking is a less awesome than the films make it out to be, still fun and you learn groovy things about computers but its not like the movies at all.

Buretsu:

viranimus:
I find it incredibly interesting that laws exist that protect corporate ineptitude as well as corporate greed but we can take a year to focus on punishing those evil evil hackers that are manipulating everyone out of their money, demanding digital distribution as a means to undermine economic stability and then subject personal information obtained through that campaign to easy unsolicited access.... oh wait, thats not right.

I find it incredibly interesting that people feel that criminals should get a free pass because 'fuck big corporations'.

And exactly what "crime" was committed? Overloading a server with trivial data requests? I wasnt aware that was exactly made a crime. Walking thru a backdoor left wide open that just happened to hold data stores of personal information? Again if the door had been properly locked and secured, yes, but honestly these guys hacking skill is actually not as impressive as the results suggest.

And honestly Im sorry you disagree, but any corporation that chose to try to railroad, screw over and ruin the life of an individual in the name of protecting corporate profits despite there being legal precedent that made that action perfectly legal, and then challenged people to screw with them, had no reason to expect any other response and should not be protected for not anticipating the very expected response.

These kids may or may not have broken "laws"(because in many cases the charges are improper modified stop gap charges for laws that do not exist) but these are not the "criminals" that need looking for.

I don't understand why the US government seem desperate to have EVERY man (and his dog) who hacked an email account extradited to the US to face their court system.
Lets face it, if the US gov' are going to all the effort and expense of extraditing someone, it's pretty unlikely that they're going to let that person walk out as a free man and thus it's unlikely that this person will face a fair trial.

So why do they want to extradite everyone? Do they fear that the hacker wont be punished enough? Do they fear the UK courts are corrupt?
I'd like to think that a country with a legal system which has been around longer than the USA has even existed and has worked fairly well and with negligible corruption can process it's own criminals successfully.

So the US gov' want to extradite these guys to face charges in the US. The US tax payer has to pay for this. They then have to pay for the incarceration of these British citizens.
Why would the American people want to pay millions of dollars for something that will be done just as well in another country?

viranimus:

And exactly what "crime" was committed? Overloading a server with trivial data requests? I wasnt aware that was exactly made a crime.

This has been a crime for a long time, whether you were aware of it or not.

Walking thru a backdoor left wide open that just happened to hold data stores of personal information? Again if the door had been properly locked and secured, yes, but honestly these guys hacking skill is actually not as impressive as the results suggest.

So if you forgot to lock your door and some guy came in and stole everything you owned and then raped your dog, you wouldn't have an issue with it? Would you say, "ahh, I didn't lock my door properly, so my stuff is fair game. Oh well, no problem, it's not a crime"?

These kids may or may not have broken "laws"

Nope, they definitely did break laws. Even if you don't agree with the law, it's still a law.

I would say that this whole thing is blown out of proportion and expect the US gov' to be shipping these guys to Guantanamo Bay for some friendly torture as soon as they can. But at the end of the day, they did break the law and they knew it.

I'm fairly certain someone has already posted the xkcd comic already, but whatever.

Achheem....

OH NO! NOOOOT FREAKING DDOS ATTACKS! :O
WHYYYY WON'T ANYONE PLEEEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!(.jpg)

LOCK UP YOUR FUCKING DAUGHTERS, 'CUS SCRIPT KIDDIES ARE COMING TO TOWN!
/capslock

DDOS attacks are harmmellesses, man.

viranimus:

And exactly what "crime" was committed? Overloading a server with trivial data requests? I wasnt aware that was exactly made a crime. Walking thru a backdoor left wide open that just happened to hold data stores of personal information? Again if the door had been properly locked and secured, yes, but honestly these guys hacking skill is actually not as impressive as the results suggest.

And honestly Im sorry you disagree, but any corporation that chose to try to railroad, screw over and ruin the life of an individual in the name of protecting corporate profits despite there being legal precedent that made that action perfectly legal, and then challenged people to screw with them, had no reason to expect any other response and should not be protected for not anticipating the very expected response.

These kids may or may not have broken "laws"(because in many cases the charges are improper modified stop gap charges for laws that do not exist) but these are not the "criminals" that need looking for.

I do have to correct you, a backdoor is a backdoor. Regardless of whether or not it is secure. You go through it, you've broken the law.
Now, I'm not saying the corporations are in the right, but if people want an internet like we've enjoyed in the past, some rules have to be followed. I'm still mad that my PSN account got hacked. Am I mad at Sony? Nope. They didn't hack it. They had shitty security, I knew that (seriously, what counts for secure on the internet these days anyway?), but I still trusted it.
There are rules. You don't blame a B&E rape victim because she didn't use Schlaage deadbolts on her door. You don't blame a victim for poor security.

Are these the people we should be going after right now? Honestly? Yeah. How many years did it take us to find Bin Laden? It's better to focus on solvable problems and get them out of the way as quickly as possible. That doesn't mean we're not simultaneously looking for other, bigger, criminals. There's just no point in devoting all the time and energy to just one problem at a time.

I feel kind of bad for these guys. Yeah they broke the law but two computer nerds wouldn't last a day in prison without getting... well y'know.

How long would they serve for this?

DugMachine:
I feel kind of bad for these guys. Yeah they broke the law but two computer nerds wouldn't last a day in prison without getting... well y'know.

How long would they serve for this?

And who do they have to blame for the horrible fate that awaits them? Themselves? Ok, any pity/sympathy gone.

Sorry, I feel no pity for anyone who willingly breaks the law and actually has consequences dealt to them. It happens far too little in society nowadays.

Dastardly:
Is the inclusion of the Asperger's thing supposed to make people sympathetic to the guy? All that means is the guy has trouble with social interaction and an abnormally intense interest in a particular subject, not that he doesn't know right from wrong, or that he has superpowers, or that he's somehow not responsible for what he did.

Do you mean inclusion in the article, or inclusion in the trial (if it was). If it's the former, I'm not sure. If the latter, then his defense lawyer is probably clinging onto every last straw she can to have his sentence reduced. If I were in her shoes, I'd do the same... wouldn't you?

Not even slightly sorry for them.

Hate the lot of them, glad at least some of them are getting their comeuppance.

Twilight_guy:
Hum, wonder why they pleaded guilty? Do they feel responsible? Is there a deal going on with the police? Are they arrogant as all hell? I'll probably never know.

Probably because they are scared shitless. They're a pair of kids who broke very serious laws against massive corporations, and it was all a game to them because they had the anonymity of the internet to hide behind.

Suddenly the FBI kicks down their front door and it's not a game any more... it's the real world. Long, drawn out interrogations from the Police and the FBI, threatened with many years in horrible jails, locked in a cell for the rest of your time in custody... serious shit. I'd be utterly terrified in that situation.

It's not like they're old, wisened Mafia dons that you see in the movies, sitting in the interrogation room in stoic silence. ;-)

Buretsu:

viranimus:
I find it incredibly interesting that laws exist that protect corporate ineptitude as well as corporate greed but we can take a year to focus on punishing those evil evil hackers that are manipulating everyone out of their money, demanding digital distribution as a means to undermine economic stability and then subject personal information obtained through that campaign to easy unsolicited access.... oh wait, thats not right.

I find it incredibly interesting that people feel that criminals should get a free pass because 'fuck big corporations'.

+1.

MelasZepheos:
Not even slightly sorry for them.

Hate the lot of them, glad at least some of them are getting their comeuppance.

Totally agree.

My favorite part of this whole thing was the "Arrest us. We dare you." tweet, which then saw them get arrested. Awesome! :-)

DugMachine:
I feel kind of bad for these guys. Yeah they broke the law but two computer nerds wouldn't last a day in prison without getting... well y'know.

How long would they serve for this?

They will get about 2 years, but with a guilty plea they will only serve 8 months. They will end up in an low security open prison, i.e. very few locked doors, tv, toilet and washstand in every cell and xboxs(with no internet) to play with. They aren't going to face hard time in the UK.

However I hope they spend the next 10 years or so getting extradited, tried and jail time to every country they played silly buggers in.

Grey Carter:
Asperger's Syndrome sufferer

If this wasn't on the internet, I might've taken offense to that. Now I am merely concerned.
You portray it like a disease one would detest. How is Asperger even relevant to the topic?

I also did not find any mention of his syndrome at the source page. Please tell me this isn't name-calling by the Escapist.
It was probably from another article.

viranimus:
I find it incredibly interesting that laws exist that protect corporate ineptitude as well as corporate greed but we can take a year to focus on punishing those evil evil hackers that are manipulating everyone out of their money, demanding digital distribution as a means to undermine economic stability and then subject personal information obtained through that campaign to easy unsolicited access.... oh wait, thats not right.

Who's evil?

Oh, and to the newsroom people: couldn't you be bothered to check to ensure you had the names spelled correctly?

EDIT: Sorry man, I think I misread your post. Is that sarcasm in there? because if it is, then I now adore what you said. =D

Twilight_guy:
Hum, wonder why they pleaded guilty? Do they feel responsible? Is there a deal going on with the police? Are they arrogant as all hell? I'll probably never know.

Davis most certianly isn't.

Scrustle:
Fucking dicks. Hope they get everything that's coming to them. Who do they think they are taunting the police to arrest them? What did they think would happen? They thought they were immune from the law? Idiots.

Davis is not an idiot. And the law in particular we're dealing with isn't entirely just.

viranimus:

Buretsu:

viranimus:
I find it incredibly interesting that laws exist that protect corporate ineptitude as well as corporate greed but we can take a year to focus on punishing those evil evil hackers that are manipulating everyone out of their money, demanding digital distribution as a means to undermine economic stability and then subject personal information obtained through that campaign to easy unsolicited access.... oh wait, thats not right.

I find it incredibly interesting that people feel that criminals should get a free pass because 'fuck big corporations'.

And exactly what "crime" was committed? Overloading a server with trivial data requests? I wasnt aware that was exactly made a crime. Walking thru a backdoor left wide open that just happened to hold data stores of personal information? Again if the door had been properly locked and secured, yes, but honestly these guys hacking skill is actually not as impressive as the results suggest.

And honestly Im sorry you disagree, but any corporation that chose to try to railroad, screw over and ruin the life of an individual in the name of protecting corporate profits despite there being legal precedent that made that action perfectly legal, and then challenged people to screw with them, had no reason to expect any other response and should not be protected for not anticipating the very expected response.

These kids may or may not have broken "laws"(because in many cases the charges are improper modified stop gap charges for laws that do not exist) but these are not the "criminals" that need looking for.

Thank you so very much. Aren't DDOS attacks considered a form of protest in some countries?

That's the very worst of what they are - forms of protest. I disagree with people being able to set shit up to be able to have an effect that outweights the number of people participating in a DDOS attack, but there's no reason for us to consider DDOS attacks as being any worse than a human barricade of a store.

It's astonishing that so many escapists have been able to comment - you'd think that typing would be difficult for people who's knees keep jerking wildly around.

Kahunaburger:
The real story is that governments and major corporations somehow managed to get embarrassed by these kids. No, FBI, the fact that your people used the same passwords for their .gov accounts and their favorite porn sites doesn't make the people who exploited this "skilled hackers."

This is most certianly a point worth raising.

What these people are are kids. Kids with no training or criminal background. What these guys did, most people can learn to do and execute with enough time.

Why - and I'm astonished more people aren't asking this question - aren't we furious that such organisations could be "hacked" by these people? A lot of commenters here seem to be acting under the impression that we're dealing with fucking mob bosses here.

Xaio30:

Grey Carter:
Asperger's Syndrome sufferer

If this wasn't on the internet, I might've taken offense to that. Now I am merely concerned.
You portray it like a disease one would detest. How is Asperger even relevant to the topic?

I also did not find any mention of his syndrome at the source page. Please tell me this isn't name-calling by the Escapist.
It was probably from another article.

Cause their lawyer thinks it will get them off scott free.

Li Mu:

viranimus:

And exactly what "crime" was committed? Overloading a server with trivial data requests? I wasnt aware that was exactly made a crime.

This has been a crime for a long time, whether you were aware of it or not.

These kids may or may not have broken "laws"

Nope, they definitely did break laws. Even if you don't agree with the law, it's still a law.

Much as I said, I was not aware that overloading a server with traffic was made a crime. Would you care to cite the source of the longstanding US law that makes it illegal to overwhelm a server please so as I do not make this error again?

I hope they don't get extradited.

The US government and legal system is just in this weird place at the moment, driven by fear, paranoia and even some genuine concern, and these poor bastards would probably end up getting tried as terrorists and sentenced to 25 years in maximum security.

No offence intended to any americans reading this, but right now I simply would not trust your legal system to approach this in a measured way, with punishment proportionate to the crime.

Evil Smurf:
I don't know if I should be sorry for him or not.....

If you invite the FBI to arrest you, and they do, I don't see why you deserve sympathy. So he's got Aspergers. So fucking what?

image[/quote]

Also why is the fact that he's got Aspergers even mentioned in the article?

These guys are such dorks. That's the only way I can describe them. They thought they were so epic "hacking" and performing "take downs". You DDoS'd a few sites guys. You aren't Batman. You just inconvenienced a few people. Now you're going to Jail because tried to be a badass.

LastGreatBlasphemer:

viranimus:

And exactly what "crime" was committed? Overloading a server with trivial data requests? I wasnt aware that was exactly made a crime. Walking thru a backdoor left wide open that just happened to hold data stores of personal information? Again if the door had been properly locked and secured, yes, but honestly these guys hacking skill is actually not as impressive as the results suggest.

And honestly Im sorry you disagree, but any corporation that chose to try to railroad, screw over and ruin the life of an individual in the name of protecting corporate profits despite there being legal precedent that made that action perfectly legal, and then challenged people to screw with them, had no reason to expect any other response and should not be protected for not anticipating the very expected response.

These kids may or may not have broken "laws"(because in many cases the charges are improper modified stop gap charges for laws that do not exist) but these are not the "criminals" that need looking for.

I do have to correct you, a backdoor is a backdoor. Regardless of whether or not it is secure. You go through it, you've broken the law.
Now, I'm not saying the corporations are in the right, but if people want an internet like we've enjoyed in the past, some rules have to be followed. I'm still mad that my PSN account got hacked. Am I mad at Sony? Nope. They didn't hack it. They had shitty security, I knew that (seriously, what counts for secure on the internet these days anyway?), but I still trusted it.
There are rules. You don't blame a B&E rape victim because she didn't use Schlaage deadbolts on her door. You don't blame a victim for poor security.

But Sony wasn't the victim. You and everyone else with a PSN account was the victim. The situation is more like if I was house sitting for someone and forgot to lock their doors. If someone breaks in, then some of the fault is on me. Not all of it because obviously people shouldn't be breaking into houses but still, I fucked up in that situation.

Dastardly:
Is the inclusion of the Asperger's thing supposed to make people sympathetic to the guy? All that means is the guy has trouble with social interaction and an abnormally intense interest in a particular subject, not that he doesn't know right from wrong, or that he has superpowers, or that he's somehow not responsible for what he did.

As an Asperger's "Sufferer" (Personally I think it's more like "Cursed with Awesome" than anything else) I can honestly say I'm disgusted by the fact he's using "I have Aspergers!" as an excuse. In terms of social issues, Aspergers is pretty mild, hell I taught myself around my teens how to properly act in a social situation. So besides loner tendencies and the ability to have (what I like to call) "super focus" I don't seem any different than the average person.

Anyways, I've been waiting to say this for a while now.

Justice Will Prevail!

Dastardly:
Is the inclusion of the Asperger's thing supposed to make people sympathetic to the guy? All that means is the guy has trouble with social interaction and an abnormally intense interest in a particular subject, not that he doesn't know right from wrong, or that he has superpowers, or that he's somehow not responsible for what he did.

Its like when news articles refer to a murdered teenage victim as "black teenager" John Doe. Implying that being black was somehow instrumental to the whole thing, without even explicitly saying so. See also, when a person who's muslim commits a murder; the headline will always read "Muslim Commits Murder". You just know that if they were buddhist or christian or whatever, the headline would simply read "Man Commits Murder", 'coz whats the point in telling a story, if you can't pander to established stereotypes and images?

Heh heh heh heh... You can never truly escape. Once you do something that big and that irritating, you're marked for life, and people want you taken down. And in the end, they will find you, and they will kill you.

Wait... No, sorry. That was Liam Neeson.

However, the part about being marked and eventually found is true. Once you go too far, you are on a timer winding down until you are caught. No escape, no hope, no salvation... Being needlessly destructive and foolish like that carries with it that burden, that you have to watch your back forever and run for your life. And in the end, you run out of places TO run IF you ran at all.

The best way to avoid being caught is not doing anything like that at all.

Esotera:

If they had actually had a point behind what they were doing, then I'd feel slightly sympathetic, but they were just bored kids who decided to be massive douchebags. If they had legitimately cared about the security of the targetted sites they would have not DDOSed, and they wouldn't have made public leaks of confidential information. Their case is about the only time when I've wanted someone to get a long sentence for hacking.

i agree with you on the 2nd point you make but (being a guy who isn't a computer expert) explain to me how take down the CIA website without hacking into their computers.

Is it just me, or is Asperger's Syndrome now becoming the new "it" disease. I'm pretty sure most people are self-diagnosed sufferers who just want an excuse to be an uncouth cunt.

image

I feel that this image is appropriate.

Also, daring the FBI to catch and arrest you after you piss off several major companies? Is that not the dumbest move ever?

viranimus:

Much as I said, I was not aware that overloading a server with traffic was made a crime. Would you care to cite the source of the longstanding US law that makes it illegal to overwhelm a server please so as I do not make this error again?

Actually that's a very interesting topic.

A website costs money to keep up and running, especially when high traffic is involved. And these are not personal websites with a visitor counter in the double digits.
Now, like I said, that means money is spent to keep it up and running.
Which means that purposely flooding it with traffic with the express intent to make it shut down, (IE: Unlawful blocking of service) is in fact a crime.

The "hackers" do not own the site, the IP, or provide monetary aid to keep it running.
Therefore any attempt to bring it down is, currently, by law, Vandalism. If you have a problem with that being vandalism, stay off the internet. As I've said before, if you like the internet you've enjoyed in the past, there are rules that have to be obeyed. Taking someone down just because you disagree with them, is against the rules.

Beardly:
But Sony wasn't the victim. You and everyone else with a PSN account was the victim. The situation is more like if I was house sitting for someone and forgot to lock their doors. If someone breaks in, then some of the fault is on me. Not all of it because obviously people shouldn't be breaking into houses but still, I fucked up in that situation.

How was Sony not the victim? Their security got busted, they took damage, and they had to pay to build up new security. How were they not a victim in this case? Did they hire these guys to do the hacking? Did they ask them to in any way?

Your analogy is pointless. No, none of the fault would be on you. Doors locked? What if he picks it? Is it your fault for not using a better deadbolt?
What if he's so insane he brought a battering ram? Is it partially your fault you didn't have steel reinforced doors?
Sony had shitty security. They never promised us it was very good in the first place, and we never researched, or even bothered asking, how their security works. We put our blind faith in them. Was it stupid? Yeah, it's getting to the point that not knowing every inch of the guys you're giving information to is dumb as fuck.
But does it put the blame on us or Sony? No. Sony thought themselves secure. They didn't dare anyone to come in. The fact that somebody broke in is entirely on the person breaking in.

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