Capcom Wants to Make Accessible Fighting Games

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Capcom Wants to Make Accessible Fighting Games

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A VP at Capcom agrees with a fan who wants casual-friendly fighters.

The world of fighting games can be a harsh place sometimes. Between a fierce competitive scene, constant updates and re-releases of full-priced games, and the occasional bout of sexist trash-talk, the intense, chaotic, and engaging world of fighters is not the easiest genre for a newbie. In fact, even just learning the ropes can be tough, as one Capcom fan pointed out on the official forums recently. No less than a Capcom vice president replied to his concerns, though, agreeing that Capcom needs to draw in more casual fighting fans, and expressing hope that future Capcom games will provide the right tools to ease new players in.

The thread's initial post by "SamusTheHedgehog" expressed a lot of enthusiasm for recent Capcom hits like Street Fighter IV and Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, but lamented the fact that playing the game to its fullest requires the use of many moves that lack any kind of in-game training beyond a free-form Practice mode. Christian Svensson, a senior vice president, jumped into the thread one page later. Instead of defending this lack of tutorial mode in the games, however, Svensson took SamusTheHedgehog's side more or less unequivocally.

"I'd say we have varying levels of success in making sure there's enough content and fun in the mechanics even if you don't know how to plink, FADC or DHC," Svensson wrote. "[Street Fighter X Tekken] was intended to be a bit more casual friendly and frankly, I think with the introduction of so many new systems ... we probably overcomplicated things and it worked against that objective." Svensson explained that while Capcom has had good intentions in trying to implement tutorial modes, the company has yet to go far enough in welcoming new players and showing them the ropes. "I know some competitive players will scoff," he admitted, "but the vitality of the scene is linked to how successful we all are (I say all because the community needs to be accepting of new players too) in these efforts."

If Svensson has his way, Capcom's next big fighting game title might be as friendly to new players as it is rewarding for veteran fighting champs. With his humble attitude and forthright dialogue, Svensson may just set a precedent for the company in which honesty, innovation, and profit go hand-in-hand. "I'd like to think we can do better in the future," he concluded.

Source: Capcom-Unity

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You REALLY have to be careful with this, Capcom. Otherwise...
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Not for me Crapcom! I'll be busy with Persona 4 Arena! You have already pissed on my loyalty to you, so until you localize Ace Attorney: Investigations 2 and Professor Layton Vs Ace Attorney, we have nothing to discuss...

If Svensson had "his way", there would only be one Street Fighter 4 title, with all the additional content released for free. If Svensson had "his way", Capcom would respect and treat its customers as well as CD Projekt or the few other developers who actually attempt to not screw fans over. If Svensson had "his way", Mega Man Legends 3 would of been released already instead of being unfairly canned and shuffled away.

Svensson will have his way alright, but only if he serves as a sock puppet for the higher ups that really matter in Capcom. Which, in short, means his way is nothing.

That's why I play Smash Brothers.

But then, that's why I don't play serious fighters. Just can't make all those quick movements nor remember the moves.

Am I missing something? Fighting games are just about the only genre where randomly mashing buttons is a functional playstyle. I think that's about as low a barrier of entry as is really feasible.

Capcom Wants to Make Accessible Fighting Games

But only after a $5 surcharge...

Honestly, I would like it if fighting games had a little video that showed you in slow motion the way to use any of the moves.

llafnwod:
Am I missing something? Fighting games are just about the only genre where randomly mashing buttons is a functional playstyle. I think that's about as low a barrier of entry as is really feasible.

Maybe on single player easy mode, but for most fighters, button mashing isn't going to get you anywhere. Single Player on normal and above will most likely be difficult using that strategy, and you'll easily get destroyed when it comes to multiplayer with someone who uses actual strategy.

I think the problem here is that there are a lot of nuances to fighting game strategy that aren't explained or sometimes not even mentioned at all in-game, such as air-dashing, pushblocking, hitstun and guardstun, parrying, sometimes even heavy medium and light moves aren't even explained. It can be tough for someone who knows nothing about the genre to be able to have fun in multiplayer because of this.

sethisjimmy:

llafnwod:
Am I missing something? Fighting games are just about the only genre where randomly mashing buttons is a functional playstyle. I think that's about as low a barrier of entry as is really feasible.

Maybe on single player easy mode, but for most fighters, button mashing isn't going to get you anywhere. Single Player on normal and above will most likely be difficult using that strategy, and you'll easily get destroyed when it comes to multiplayer with someone who uses actual strategy.

I think the problem here is that there are a lot of nuances to fighting game strategy that aren't explained or sometimes not even mentioned at all in-game, such as air-dashing, pushblocking, hitstun and guardstun, parrying, sometimes even heavy medium and light moves aren't even explained. It can be tough for someone who knows nothing about the genre to be able to have fun in multiplayer because of this.

That's absolutely true, but that's a general problem amongst the complex genres. It's the same with RTSs; being competitive at all in multiplayer requires an enormous amount of practice and research in the community surrounding the game. I am entirely for having more in-depth tutorials that actually go over complex mechanics, but I don't see much else that can be done short of just simplifying the gameplay.

expressing hope that future Capcom games will provide the right tools to ease new players in.

Heaven forbid they could just ease themselves in by, I don't know, taking the time to learn how to play the game on their own.

Captcha: Shoot through
Are you saying this gives casual gamers... a bad name?

Or, you know, you could play Smash Bros., the upcoming Playstation All-Stars looks like a fine Smash Bros. clone too and one I'm definitely interested into.

I think ol' Cappy is COMPLETELY missing the point right now.

sethisjimmy:

llafnwod:
Am I missing something? Fighting games are just about the only genre where randomly mashing buttons is a functional playstyle. I think that's about as low a barrier of entry as is really feasible.

Maybe on single player easy mode, but for most fighters, button mashing isn't going to get you anywhere. Single Player on normal and above will most likely be difficult using that strategy, and you'll easily get destroyed when it comes to multiplayer with someone who uses actual strategy.

I think the problem here is that there are a lot of nuances to fighting game strategy that aren't explained or sometimes not even mentioned at all in-game, such as air-dashing, pushblocking, hitstun and guardstun, parrying, sometimes even heavy medium and light moves aren't even explained. It can be tough for someone who knows nothing about the genre to be able to have fun in multiplayer because of this.

The truth has been spoken.

The problem with training in a fighting game is it can be very tough to teach the stuff that really matters. Movement, understanding your moves, controlling space, etc. It's much easier to throw in a combo challenge mode, call it a training mode, and then call it a day. More able and less complex training modes and actual tutorials that are updated as the gameplay evolves are whats really needed. At this point, you can find much better training material from a ton of different sources on Youtube than you can get in the actual game, and that's where the problem lies.

Oh, and yes, mashing in almost any fighting game out there gets you absolutely nowhere against anyone who even partially knows what they are doing. It may win you a round or two, but anyone who says they are good yet losers to a masher really isn't any good at all. Mashing hasn't been a "functional playstyle" for decades.

Marshall Honorof:
Svensson may just set a precedent for the company in which honesty, innovation, and profit go hand-in-hand.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Still, it's nice for an internal entity of a company to admit there may be faults with the system.

Persona 4: Arena was intended to be accessible. It's coming out in about a week from now in North America, so I haven't played it yet, but it seems newbie-friendly. Arc System Works' previous BlazBlue games (I'm not sure about Guilty Gear) had a pretty damn comprehensive tutorial mode and there seems to be a lesson mode in P4:A, as well. The button inputs have also been simplified; there is not a single half-circle or Shoryuken motion in any character's moveset. In addition, combos are more forgiving and require less specific timing. This makes sense because P4:A is marketed to both fighting game fans and Persona fans, who may not have had experience with fighting games.

My advice to Capcom would be to do what Arc System Works did: simplify the inputs, make combos easier and include a tutorial mode. Then they'll have a more accessible fighting game. It may not become a game with a hardcore following, but it'll help introduce people to the series.

Watch, as fighter fans come out the woodwork to decry devs 'dumbing down' there games.

I believe its noble to aim for a difficulty curve that is stable. Ideally you want it to be easy to pick up and hard to master and you want the increase in skill to not have any major gaps where you need a large increase in skill or practice to see an increase in game level. I think that's a good thing and thinking about it is the first step to achieving it. However, I think fighting games already have a pretty accessible entry level. Even if you don't know all the specials, you can still learn basics by just pressing buttons and you can still enjoy two guys (or girls) beating the crap out of each other. Moving from there to understanding every tiny detail down to which moves is quicker in terms of frames and hit boxes is a bit more dicey.

Pfft... dumb down my genre will you? Why I 'oughta...

To be fair though, there is definitely too much complication in fighting games for casual fans. I play 30-60 mins of practice mode just about every day for UMvC3 and I'm still only 'OK' at it. Games like KoF and SSF4 are even more complex, if a little slower and more forgiving.

In the levels of accessability, Capcom fighters are pretty mid range. They're not as pick up and play friendly as Aksys's lineup of games (Guilty Gear, Blazblue, Persona 4 Arena) or the high bar for pick up and play (Brawl), but they're also not an obtuse brick that takes several hours before you can do anything meaningful in any sense (Virtua Fighter, KoF)

From easiest to pick up and play to hardest:

Brawl
Mortal Kombat
Aksys Games
Capcom Games
Tekken
Virtua Fighter
King of Fighters

StriderShinryu:

sethisjimmy:

llafnwod:
Am I missing something? Fighting games are just about the only genre where randomly mashing buttons is a functional playstyle. I think that's about as low a barrier of entry as is really feasible.

Maybe on single player easy mode, but for most fighters, button mashing isn't going to get you anywhere. Single Player on normal and above will most likely be difficult using that strategy, and you'll easily get destroyed when it comes to multiplayer with someone who uses actual strategy.

I think the problem here is that there are a lot of nuances to fighting game strategy that aren't explained or sometimes not even mentioned at all in-game, such as air-dashing, pushblocking, hitstun and guardstun, parrying, sometimes even heavy medium and light moves aren't even explained. It can be tough for someone who knows nothing about the genre to be able to have fun in multiplayer because of this.

The truth has been spoken.

The problem with training in a fighting game is it can be very tough to teach the stuff that really matters. Movement, understanding your moves, controlling space, etc. It's much easier to throw in a combo challenge mode, call it a training mode, and then call it a day. More able and less complex training modes and actual tutorials that are updated as the gameplay evolves are whats really needed. At this point, you can find much better training material from a ton of different sources on Youtube than you can get in the actual game, and that's where the problem lies.

Oh, and yes, mashing in almost any fighting game out there gets you absolutely nowhere against anyone who even partially knows what they are doing. It may win you a round or two, but anyone who says they are good yet losers to a masher really isn't any good at all. Mashing hasn't been a "functional playstyle" for decades.

While I agree that mashing is quite possibly the scrubbiest "tactic" known to the history of fighters, I'll have to disagree that if you happen to lose to a masher you aren't worth your salt (heh). The way the system works in some of the more "combo/string-friendly" games (DoA, VF, U/MvC3 for example), you may not even realize that your opponent is throwing out attacks sporadically until you've already lost the match. Not to mention that the player who actually know what the fuck he/she is doing still has to analyze what the opponent is doing, and by that time it may be too late.

Not trying to defend mashers, mind you. Just sticking up for the odd player that's run into a bit of bad luck with one.

---

Back to the core subject, it's all well and good that Capcom wants to make "more accessible" fighters, but there's a delicate balance to that. It's bad enough that fighting games are essentially made for people who play fighting games (and always have been when you think about it, with the few exceptions being SF and MK, or so I choose to believe). Make the game too easy, it becomes shallow and "scrubby" (U/MvC3). Make it too complex or esoteric, and nobody likes it because the game itself becomes to difficult to figure out what the fuck's happening (King of Fighters, Guilty Gear, even the SF3 series). There's a fine line that's needs to be tread and it's all too easy to fall over to either side and never recover.

Observation: To my regular fighting game homies, anyone else notice that the Smash Bros. series seems to be the fighting game that's specifically for non-fighting fans (and, interestingly enough, most of them don't play other games)? It's like how you used to hear people say they hate rap music but love Eminem.

Good luck to them. They'll probably fuck it up, but that's the risk of trying anything including the status quo.

Accessible fighting games? They could start by not locking out content! *zing*

... I'll just see myself out now.

Blazblue DID have that tutorial mode, it taught you everything including how to walk forward.

Know what happened? People complained that there was too much thrown at them and that there was too much reading.

Capcom wanted to make Street Fighter X Tekken newbie friendly. The result? The Gem System.

If you really want to make a newbie friendly fighter, Capcom, here are some ideas.

1) Include an extensive, comprehensive tutorial not only for the game's mechanics, but for each character. No, not trials that teach you nothing but combos. Tutorials. That teach things that matter. Preferably through giving examples visually while voice overs explain. As the guy before me mentioned with BlazBlue, newbies don't like reading lots.

2) Simplify. Don't pull some gimmicky bullshit like you did with the Gems. Hell, you may want to drop the super meter entirely. Dropping EXs and Supers would put off the hardcore crowd, certainly, but they're not the target audience here. Maybe even drop quarter circles, DPMs, and the like in favor of one directional input plus an attack button.

3) Limit the character roster. Maybe have as many as sixteen characters, but no more. This makes choosing less overwhelming and allows for tighter balancing, which would hopefully cut down on the possibility of one character being clearly superior to everyone else and every noob flocking to that one, leaving the rest of the cast alone and unloved.

4) Make it a new IP. Fresh start and all that. More appealing to new audiences who could be put off by Street Fighter Such and Such due to not having played prior entries of the series.

5) Extensive single player and local multiplayer options are a must. You suck at these, so refer to Netherrealm's Mortal Kombat for pointers. Remember, you're dealing with casual players. These people aren't only concerned with online multiplayer. That may be the last thing on their minds. And likely is.

I don't know why I'm putting ideas out there for a company I abhor, but they just keep making so many silly decisions.

The solution to this problem, I think really lies in the fact that Capcom needs to get good at teaching in its games; much, much better than other games, if we're going to consider the more complex mechanics important to the game. It's such a high hill to climb to get good at the various fighting games out there (though they all seem to share a high curve to expertise), but the newbs fade away because there aren't enough people climbing willing to reach down and guide the newbs properly (why would they? Most who are making progress in getting better still have far to go).

Either that, or all I'll ask for is a perpetual training session online. If online would be such a focus, why can't I properly get accustomed to ONE person playing online, as if s/he was sitting next to me, playing matches?

Lord Beautiful:
Capcom wanted to make Street Fighter X Tekken newbie friendly. The result? The Gem System.

If you really want to make a newbie friendly fighter, Capcom, here are some ideas.

1) Include an extensive, comprehensive tutorial not only for the game's mechanics, but for each character. No, not trials that teach you nothing but combos. Tutorials. That teach things that matter. Preferably through giving examples visually while voice overs explain. As the guy before me mentioned with BlazBlue, newbies don't like reading lots.

2) Simplify. Don't pull some gimmicky bullshit like you did with the Gems. Hell, you may want to drop the super meter entirely. Dropping EXs and Supers would put off the hardcore crowd, certainly, but they're not the target audience here. Maybe even drop quarter circles, DPMs, and the like in favor of one directional input plus an attack button.

3) Limit the character roster. Maybe have as many as sixteen characters, but no more. This makes choosing less overwhelming and allows for tighter balancing, which would hopefully cut down on the possibility of one character being clearly superior to everyone else and every noob flocking to that one, leaving the rest of the cast alone and unloved.

4) Make it a new IP. Fresh start and all that. More appealing to new audiences who could be put off by Street Fighter Such and Such due to not having played prior entries of the series.

5) Extensive single player and local multiplayer options are a must. You suck at these, so refer to Netherrealm's Mortal Kombat for pointers. Remember, you're dealing with casual players. These people aren't only concerned with online multiplayer. That may be the last thing on their minds. And likely is.

I don't know why I'm putting ideas out there for a company I abhor, but they just keep making so many silly decisions.

I agree with you on all of those being effective things...but what would be the point? There's already an SSB and a PS All-Stars being made. It wouldn't really stand out at all and the serious gamers would just ignore it while it'd flop with the casuals who have no real passion for it since it's a new IP. The element which makes fighting games compelling and allows for just fighting to be engaging enough for you to play for ages is indeed those deep and complex mechanics.

If the plan is to cramp it with modes and random stuff....why not just make a 3-D brawler style game similar to Sengoku Basara and have a 1vs1 mode as a side-thing? And by then...it wouldn't really even be a fighter any more...but it'd make sense. :P

Dreiko:

Lord Beautiful:
snip

I agree with you on all of those being effective things...but what would be the point? There's already an SSB and a PS All-Stars being made. It wouldn't really stand out at all and the serious gamers would just ignore it while it'd flop with the casuals who have no real passion for it since it's a new IP. The element which makes fighting games compelling and allows for just fighting to be engaging enough for you to play for ages is indeed those deep and complex mechanics.
If the plan is to cramp it with modes and random stuff....why not just make a 3-D brawler style game similar to Sengoku Basara and have a 1vs1 mode as a side-thing? And by then...it wouldn't really even be a fighter any more...but it'd make sense. :P

It needs deep and complex mechanics, sure. But the mechanics need to enhance the game, not draw a line in the sand. Soul Calibur III was generally pretty good about this. The game didn't depend too heavily on combos, things were more about timing and having a general idea for how your character "moves." You could pick up the game, learn the basics, and beat through the basic story mode after a few hours. But, when you got a good handle on that, the game was ready with more challenging modes. You take on the arcade mode, and eventually tournament mode, and you start learning more complex game maneuvers, such as impact blocking, proper side stepping, and stance-shifting. And if you wanted to play against other players, there were deeper mechanics for the hardcore crowd (which I never really got in to, as I never reached that level of play).

Also, I disagree on modes being a bad thing. Look at Soul Calibur IV. You had a crap story mode, an arcade mode, a stupid tower mode, and online play. Story and arcade were cakewalks, and most people could beat them within a day or two. That left online play (the hardcore hangout) or the tower mode, which was simply figuring out which button combo you have to abuse to overcome the enemy's random can't-kill-me gimmick. There was nothing to do but "practice" or beat your head against the brick wall. For non-hardcore gamers, you need some aspect of gameplay that's satisfying to play while you simmer off of the heat from your latest butt-being-handed-to-you. I love a challenge in a game, but when I'm stuck against a brick wall, I either go screw around elsewhere (in game) until I feel like coming back, or I put the controller down. And for fighter games, it is really hard to pick it back up, knowing that there is nothing I can do for fun in the game other than get my rear handed to me.

Prosis:

It needs deep and complex mechanics, sure. But the mechanics need to enhance the game, not draw a line in the sand. Soul Calibur III was generally pretty good about this. The game didn't depend too heavily on combos, things were more about timing and having a general idea for how your character "moves." You could pick up the game, learn the basics, and beat through the basic story mode after a few hours. But, when you got a good handle on that, the game was ready with more challenging modes. You take on the arcade mode, and eventually tournament mode, and you start learning more complex game maneuvers, such as impact blocking, proper side stepping, and stance-shifting. And if you wanted to play against other players, there were deeper mechanics for the hardcore crowd (which I never really got in to, as I never reached that level of play).

Also, I disagree on modes being a bad thing. Look at Soul Calibur IV. You had a crap story mode, an arcade mode, a stupid tower mode, and online play. Story and arcade were cakewalks, and most people could beat them within a day or two. That left online play (the hardcore hangout) or the tower mode, which was simply figuring out which button combo you have to abuse to overcome the enemy's random can't-kill-me gimmick. There was nothing to do but "practice" or beat your head against the brick wall. For non-hardcore gamers, you need some aspect of gameplay that's satisfying to play while you simmer off of the heat from your latest butt-being-handed-to-you. I love a challenge in a game, but when I'm stuck against a brick wall, I either go screw around elsewhere (in game) until I feel like coming back, or I put the controller down. And for fighter games, it is really hard to pick it back up, knowing that there is nothing I can do for fun in the game other than get my rear handed to me.

I guess this is going to be a big discord that will never be bridged sadly, seeing as how SC3 is widely regarded as the worst most broken SC ever and it's mechanics being absurdly abuse-able. The modes were better than in 4, sure, but the gameplay being completely broken and easily exploited rendered the game an overall flop. Flops can still be fun, as your experience (and mine, actually) show...but one thing they never do is be taken seriously.

As for the brick wall and those ass-kickings. You just need to look at them as learning experiences. You need to redefine success as something achieved when you learn something or when you improve. Getting your ass handed to you is still something to celebrate if you learned something in the process and you're better for it now!

People expect games to reward them with praise and complements too much nowadays, you get trophies for merely starting a game...fighters are not like this and I think they should remain so since if people just altered their expectations a bit and didn't go into them expecting to be badasses without any actual experience and actually worked their way up, they'd end up with much deeper more fulfilling fun in the end.

If Capcom wants an "accessible" game, they can't arbitrarily disc-lock 1/3rd of the roster. That's the complete OPPOSITE of accessible. That's actually outright INACCESSIBLE.

I guess all their games could be considered accessible... if you pay the unlock fee.

But, seriously, I love fighting games, and the vast majority of fighting games are so unfriendly to anyone outside of the fighting game genre that I think it's a miracle the genre still even exists. Fighting games can be as insanely complex and time-consuming as EVE Online, and the learning curve is ridiculously high...

... And beyond that, for every "hardcore" EVO tournament player out there, there are a thousand people who really don't have the time, or the desire, to invest huge chunks of time into mastering the intricate nuances of a fighting game.

... They just want to play the game and have fun. The way many modern fighters are designed runs counter to that. If you just want to "have fun", the genre may not be for you. It's mean, competitive, often sexist, and brutally exclusive.

They're still good games, but like the Ninja Gaiden series, only a very, very small percent of he people who buy and play the game get the most out of it.

Trishbot:
If Capcom wants an "accessible" game, they can't arbitrarily disc-lock 1/3rd of the roster. That's the complete OPPOSITE of accessible. That's actually outright INACCESSIBLE.

I guess all their games could be considered accessible... if you pay the unlock fee.

But, seriously, I love fighting games, and the vast majority of fighting games are so unfriendly to anyone outside of the fighting game genre that I think it's a miracle the genre still even exists. Fighting games can be as insanely complex and time-consuming as EVE Online, and the learning curve is ridiculously high...

... And beyond that, for every "hardcore" EVO tournament player out there, there are a thousand people who really don't have the time, or the desire, to invest huge chunks of time into mastering the intricate nuances of a fighting game.

... They just want to play the game and have fun. The way many modern fighters are designed runs counter to that. If you just want to "have fun", the genre may not be for you. It's mean, competitive, often sexist, and brutally exclusive.

They're still good games, but like the Ninja Gaiden series, only a very, very small percent of he people who buy and play the game get the most out of it.

I've had some of the funnest times with games ever and met awesome people during my time playing fighters. You'll find many many times more sexists or mean people in any MW session than in the fighting game scene.

It may take lots more effort to get someplace than other genres but the community also has a huge amount of infrastructure meant to support you as you do, more so than most other communities. It basically single-handedly keeps the arcade and real life tourney scenes live in the US. I think all of these things are unfairly ignored, looked over or gone without mention because, like with the news, you don't report on the good stuff, only the bad. You don't see that if your "solving" a small negative issue will potentially end up destroying a grander good one in the process, because the good is simply not perceived.

Dreiko:

I guess this is going to be a big discord that will never be bridged sadly, seeing as how SC3 is widely regarded as the worst most broken SC ever and it's mechanics being absurdly abuse-able. The modes were better than in 4, sure, but the gameplay being completely broken and easily exploited rendered the game an overall flop. Flops can still be fun, as your experience (and mine, actually) show...but one thing they never do is be taken seriously.

As for the brick wall and those ass-kickings. You just need to look at them as learning experiences. You need to redefine success as something achieved when you learn something or when you improve. Getting your ass handed to you is still something to celebrate if you learned something in the process and you're better for it now!

People expect games to reward them with praise and complements too much nowadays, you get trophies for merely starting a game...fighters are not like this and I think they should remain so since if people just altered their expectations a bit and didn't go into them expecting to be badasses without any actual experience and actually worked their way up, they'd end up with much deeper more fulfilling fun in the end.

My point wasn't that games should be easier or more rewarding. My point is that its nice to take a break from them. Stuck on a big boss? Go run around, have fun, kill random things, play through an earlier level (and I'm not talking about RPGs, where you can grind past most challenges). Can't beat that race? Go do time trials on other courses you've beaten. Escort mission sucks? Go exploring. My point is not to drop the challenge. My point is to go do something else on the game, until you feel ready to face that challenge again. Even on linear 2D adventure games, if one level keeps owning you, you can replay older levels.

But on a fighter game? A fighter game needs other options. Fighting the same guy over and over again is not fun. Fighting enemies that you've beaten before is not really fun either, as it's something you've already done. Other modes make it more interesting. Maybe fighting those guys again all in a row, or with double health. Or a halfway decent story mode. Whatever. When you're done screwing around, you can get back to that guy who keeps on beating you. And eventually, you'll overcome him, and feel the success and satisfaction.

But when the entirety of the game becomes repeating the battle, with literally nothing else to do on the game until you win that battle, it's pointless to a non-hardcore fan.

Don't get me wrong, the core of the fighter and the challenge is more important than the extra modes. But if you ever want to open up a fighter to casual crowds, you need the modes. There's a reason why Smash Brothers leads the sales.

Prosis:

My point wasn't that games should be easier or more rewarding. My point is that its nice to take a break from them. Stuck on a big boss? Go run around, have fun, kill random things, play through an earlier level (and I'm not talking about RPGs, where you can grind past most challenges). Can't beat that race? Go do time trials on other courses you've beaten. Escort mission sucks? Go exploring. My point is not to drop the challenge. My point is to go do something else on the game, until you feel ready to face that challenge again. Even on linear 2D adventure games, if one level keeps owning you, you can replay older levels.

But on a fighter game? A fighter game needs other options. Fighting the same guy over and over again is not fun. Fighting enemies that you've beaten before is not really fun either, as it's something you've already done. Other modes make it more interesting. Maybe fighting those guys again all in a row, or with double health. Or a halfway decent story mode. Whatever. When you're done screwing around, you can get back to that guy who keeps on beating you. And eventually, you'll overcome him, and feel the success and satisfaction.

But when the entirety of the game becomes repeating the battle, with literally nothing else to do on the game until you win that battle, it's pointless to a non-hardcore fan.

Don't get me wrong, the core of the fighter and the challenge is more important than the extra modes. But if you ever want to open up a fighter to casual crowds, you need the modes. There's a reason why Smash Brothers leads the sales.

Hmm, I guess I don't "screw around" much in games...so I can't quite see the value in that when posed against actually doing the big cool important stuff you could be in that game. If I just know I can succeed at a task no matter what, that there's no option for failure, there's no actual point to go ahead with the task, it's already done and a matter of just getting through with it. That, to me, feels like "work" more so than all hour-long training mode sessions and combo practice marathons I've done combined.

If stuck I'd just stick fighting this guy for 3 hours straight till I did it, then I'd feel hype and do something even harder...cause that's fun, that's tangible improvement and exciting. :D

You already do, thanks for the turd that is MvsC 3. I am so happy you reduced it to a two button game! It's not like the appeal for most fighting games comes from the robust selection of each character's fighting moves and the complexity of mixing and matching them against each other.

Oh wait...

This just in!!! Nintendo wants to make Chess accessible to toddlers by getting rid of all the 'hard to wern' nonsense in it and replace the pieces with bumper-cars driven by franchise characters!

Ah fun times when even the president of the company believes fighting games are a core genre. They are not a core anything. Fighting games are the very definition of pick up and play casual. It does not take very much effort to play Street Fighter IV, Street Fighter X Tekken or anything else on the list of fighting games.

I guess that this is where some people would queue up to tell me how Fighting games have tournaments and that makes it core. My question would be how? If having tournaments make something core or casual, Then Tetris, Call of Duty, Halo, Bejeweled, and New Super Mario Bros are core games as well.

I guess this where some would say exception does not prove anything. That may be true, but this is also where I can say every game you can possibly play has a tournament attached to it in some way. Please look it up before accusing me of making stuff up or not understanding what they genres are.

The difference between you and I playing a fighting game and a 50,000 dollar tournament winner is one of time and attitude. He chooses to spend hours learning how to make a character function in a competitive manner.

Hardcore does not describe the games. It describes the attitude one approaches to gaming. It is possible to obsess over Bejeweled and play Street Fighter 4 15 minutes at a times.

DVS BSTrD:

expressing hope that future Capcom games will provide the right tools to ease new players in.

Heaven forbid they could just ease themselves in by, I don't know, taking the time to learn how to play the game on their own.

Captcha: Shoot through
Are you saying this gives casual gamers... a bad name?

I started playing fighting games earlier this year, and the games I tried(primarily SF4, SF3:OE, Mortal Kombat) rarely even mention half of the mechanics you need to learn in order to play it properly, and doesn't give you any pointers towards basic tactics, which in Capcom fighters are far more important than combos(and the combos they taught in SF4 trial mode weren't often the bread-and-butter-stuff I ended up using). I had to look up all that stuff on the internet, and that's because I was determined to get into the genre. For someone who's just checking out the genre to see if it's any fun, this often scares them away.

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