Dark Souls Director Considers an Easier Option

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I didn't find Dark Souls very difficult at all (though it did have a few moments) - just unforgiving as well as some bullshit terrain (i.e Anor Londo silver knight archers or The Great Hollow). I hardly ever died during the combat and I'm sure that was true for a lot of people, so having an 'Easy Mode' wouldn't even accomplish much unless it came with a Prince of Persia type option.

I like games they have that feeling of accomplishment, hard ones have it more often

sunsetspawn:

The extremely rare humanity is a bit much. I know it's a Japanese thing to "grind," but Dark Souls got out of hand with that shit. It could take hours to get humanity back, which really hurt the flow of the game. Also, the atmosphere was a little too oppressive.

In fact, Dark Souls' difficulty is a great thing, but the small cheesy bits take away from the experience.

Erm not sure if you actually played the game but you get humanity that stays in your invent to use whenever you want, you cant lose it by dying...

I never had a problem with a shortage of humanity in the game but okay.

PC Gamers are soft

Can't reference a game from the win98 era as proof that they enjoy a challenge.

i think the secret to making an easier difficulty lies not in the threat of the enemies, but the gaining of souls, and the loss of them if you die. changing that would make the game bearable enough for the more faint of heart, as you woundnt have to grind, or tweak the game considerably. for example, you would gain more souls per kill, and you wouldnt lose them upon death. i cant tell you how many times ive died while hauling thousands of souls, and it really makes you stick in an area longer than you should [im looking at you, blighttown].

Aiddon:
go for it; he say it'd be an OPTION. Sometimes Dark Souls is legitimately challenging, but it can also plummet into just unfair and annoying (like the Capra Demon fight, Blighttown, Quelaag, Sen's Fortress, the entry into Anor Londo's castle, Ornstein and Smough, etc) so it actually BORES players instead of enticing them.

i automatically got enraged when you typed quelaag. never before has a boss fight been so cheap and annoying. DAMN YOU, FIRE SPHERE AOE !!!

I am all for an easier difficulty option for Dark Souls. As of right now I am in Anor Londo, about to fight Biggie Smalls, but I found that I can only play the game in short bursts due the game just being so mentally and emotionally draining. I can only take a cheap boss or moment for so long before I just turn off the game. Hell, it took be forever to complete Blighttown because those damn trolls are so annoying. Not to mention the poison lake pissed me off to no end mostly because I would run out of moss by then. And don't get me started about those damn Silver Knight archers in Anor Londo. When I play a game, I usually chose an easier difficultly (usually default) to get a sense on what I am getting myself into in the game. Hell if they turn off NG+ on easy mode, I would be all for the game. I usually use the easy option as practice anyways.

bullet_sandw1ch:

Aiddon:
go for it; he say it'd be an OPTION. Sometimes Dark Souls is legitimately challenging, but it can also plummet into just unfair and annoying (like the Capra Demon fight, Blighttown, Quelaag, Sen's Fortress, the entry into Anor Londo's castle, Ornstein and Smough, etc) so it actually BORES players instead of enticing them.

i automatically got enraged when you typed quelaag. never before has a boss fight been so cheap and annoying. DAMN YOU, FIRE SPHERE AOE !!!

>.> You might be a bit more enraged to hear that she's actually pretty easy for melee characters, then? Stick by her side, dodge away whenever she goes to melee or just block if you have a decent shield, her fire spewing will never hit you unless you back away into it. I don't think she hit me more than twice when I fought her. She telegraphs the Fire Aura attack pretty extensively.

Honestly, she was one of the easier bosses for me, I think the only one I had less difficulty with so far was the Iron Golem of Sen's Fortress. Ornstein and Smough are much more cheap and annoying.

I really enjoy my playthrough and I'm having a blast with the multiplayer aspects of the game. It's unconventional and I love the way it is done, even though you do get quite a lot of errors saying summoning/invading failed. I blame GFWL for that, and the peer-2-peer system they use. But hey, just retry a few times and it is bound to work.

The difficulty in my opinion is quite alright. However there are moments that just screw you over and give you to little information beforehand.

Usually I think the game is fair in its ways. I'd rather have it stick with the default difficulty and not let you choose, because it really fits the style of it. You get thrown into the deeps and the game basically say 'Good Luck'. I like it that way. I wouldn't find any value in an easy-mode that they could implement. Generally you can survive everything if you know what's going on and usually it does give you incentives.

The only thing they should get rid of is cheesy events that get you killed without any means of defending yourself. There's a boss that can basically stunlock you if you get hit once and that is kinda annoying. I suppose I just shouldn't have been hit at all, or get some more levels/equipment/poise so I can stop the stunlock....

Captia - Game Over

yes, yes indeed. Though the real message is 'You Died'
over..and over...and over..........and over

Jerry Pendleton:
I am all for an easier difficulty option for Dark Souls. As of right now I am in Anor Londo, about to fight Biggie Smalls, but I found that I can only play the game in short bursts due the game just being so mentally and emotionally draining. I can only take a cheap boss or moment for so long before I just turn off the game. Hell, it took be forever to complete Blighttown because those damn trolls are so annoying. Not to mention the poison lake pissed me off to no end mostly because I would run out of moss by then. And don't get me started about those damn Silver Knight archers in Anor Londo. When I play a game, I usually chose an easier difficultly (usually default) to get a sense on what I am getting myself into in the game. Hell if they turn off NG+ on easy mode, I would be all for the game. I usually use the easy option as practice anyways.

I like that idea. Though I would also add the inability to invade or summon in easy mode (except npcs). Easy mode with a catch like that sounds well within the spirit of Dark Souls.

shrekfan246:

bullet_sandw1ch:

Aiddon:
go for it; he say it'd be an OPTION. Sometimes Dark Souls is legitimately challenging, but it can also plummet into just unfair and annoying (like the Capra Demon fight, Blighttown, Quelaag, Sen's Fortress, the entry into Anor Londo's castle, Ornstein and Smough, etc) so it actually BORES players instead of enticing them.

i automatically got enraged when you typed quelaag. never before has a boss fight been so cheap and annoying. DAMN YOU, FIRE SPHERE AOE !!!

>.> You might be a bit more enraged to hear that she's actually pretty easy for melee characters, then? Stick by her side, dodge away whenever she goes to melee or just block if you have a decent shield, her fire spewing will never hit you unless you back away into it. I don't think she hit me more than twice when I fought her. She telegraphs the Fire Aura attack pretty extensively.

Honestly, she was one of the easier bosses for me, I think the only one I had less difficulty with so far was the Iron Golem of Sen's Fortress. Ornstein and Smough are much more cheap and annoying.

Im surprised you had difficulty with her. I was playing as a pyro and she was quite weak. All you have to do is pretty much strafe around her in a circle motion, avoid her lava pits and smash away at her.

If this still gives you trouble read the spoiler^^

Zeriah:
I didn't find Dark Souls very difficult at all (though it did have a few moments) - just unforgiving as well as some bullshit terrain (i.e Anor Londo silver knight archers or The Great Hollow). I hardly ever died during the combat and I'm sure that was true for a lot of people, so having an 'Easy Mode' wouldn't even accomplish much unless it came with a Prince of Persia type option.

I have to say I probably had most difficulty navigating the map as well. The terrain is out to kill you.

Shadowcreed:

shrekfan246:

bullet_sandw1ch:
i automatically got enraged when you typed quelaag. never before has a boss fight been so cheap and annoying. DAMN YOU, FIRE SPHERE AOE !!!

>.> You might be a bit more enraged to hear that she's actually pretty easy for melee characters, then? Stick by her side, dodge away whenever she goes to melee or just block if you have a decent shield, her fire spewing will never hit you unless you back away into it. I don't think she hit me more than twice when I fought her. She telegraphs the Fire Aura attack pretty extensively.

Honestly, she was one of the easier bosses for me, I think the only one I had less difficulty with so far was the Iron Golem of Sen's Fortress. Ornstein and Smough are much more cheap and annoying.

Im surprised you had difficulty with her. I was playing as a pyro and she was quite weak. All you have to do is pretty much strafe around her in a circle motion, avoid her lava pits and smash away at her.

If this still gives you trouble read the spoiler^^

I think you either misquoted or misinterpreted my post. I was saying that she was pretty easy for my warrior.

No harm done, though.

I am never really bothered by games having difficulty modes to them. However, calling PC gamers soft is kind of lame. A lot of brutally hard game exists on the PC. If anything, we have less patience for shoddy products released in terrible barely playable conditions. I wonder if any recently released ports match that description.

shrekfan246:

No harm done, though. I didn't know you could summon that Phantom before Quelaag. (Her name is Maneater Mildred, by the way.)

Oh, woops, yeah wrong guy ^^
hopefully he had a message as well.

When Mildred came along I thought it was a real player and was surprised at how bad he was^^
I felt good about myself only to realize it's just another NPC :(

I got the game expecting a good fantasy game. What I got was a crap beginning with next to no story given to me, I'm suddenly thrown into this zombie thing, I get raped, the enemies I just lost all my health and potions to respawn when I refill my potion flask, and after three hours of playing, I still didn't really know what was going on.

Hey, a lot of people enjoy the game, so it more or less just means the game is not for me, and after that first OP boss in the asylum place, I was just grinding through the game instead of paying it any attention (And by grinding, I mean repeating the same fucking place over and over and over because respawning enemies kept respawning when I went to refill my MOTHERFUCKIN' POTION FLASK BECAUSE THEY TOOK AWAY MY HEALTH IN THE FIRST TIME!)
<<

I also prefer to play games for fun/unrealism/story, not challenge. Some people find fun in challenge. I don't.

Shadowcreed:

shrekfan246:

No harm done, though. I didn't know you could summon that Phantom before Quelaag. (Her name is Maneater Mildred, by the way.)

Oh, woops, yeah wrong guy ^^
hopefully he had a message as well.

When Mildred came along I thought it was a real player and was surprised at how bad he was^^
I felt good about myself only to realize it's just another NPC :(

Haha yeah me too, I was wondering why they were wearing a bag on their head and little else. I thought it was just someone messing around xD

omicron1:
Myst/Uru is an intellectual challenge - while it may be difficult for some, for most it's just a matter of thinking about it for a while. There's really no excitement to trying a puzzle in Uru - just the knowledge that you can move on once it's complete. I can't see a basis for comparison between the two, aside from "Casual gamers might well give up half an hour in."

Speak for yourself. One of my biggest and longest-lasting highs in all of gaming was figuring out how Ahnonay worked in Uru.

People experience different emotional reactions to things.

The answer is not to change the difficulty, but rather to give the player more information about how to play. I know that my first time would have been a lot easier if I had been told a couple of simple things, rather then having to learn them the hard way.

Also, he is aware that many people bought it because of its unrelenting difficulty? I know I did at first, but the experience became so much more than an arbitrarily difficult game. In this modern market, it's rather nice to have a change.

I got Dark Souls expecting to have a rough time, i enjoyed my time with it but only got to the foresty area which if you measure it is hardly anywhere really.

Very sad that i had to drop a game for being too difficult, i would definately appreciate an easier setting.

I like a hard game (Gran Prix Legends, defending Drassen in 1.13), I just don' t like brawlers that rely on my non existant thumb dexterity. I guess I prefer thinking to reacting, which seems to be the default with console based games. I don't like shitty ports either for that matter but I wasn't interested in DS before they butchered the port.

Akalabeth:
PC Gamers are soft

Can't reference a game from the win98 era as proof that they enjoy a challenge.

Gubble.

Riven, sans-walkthrough.

The Incredible Machine: Contraptions.

Jagged Alliance 2.

etc.

Moonlight Butterfly:

sunsetspawn:

The extremely rare humanity is a bit much. I know it's a Japanese thing to "grind," but Dark Souls got out of hand with that shit. It could take hours to get humanity back, which really hurt the flow of the game. Also, the atmosphere was a little too oppressive.

In fact, Dark Souls' difficulty is a great thing, but the small cheesy bits take away from the experience.

Erm not sure if you actually played the game but you get humanity that stays in your invent to use whenever you want, you cant lose it by dying...

I never had a problem with a shortage of humanity in the game but okay.

It's fair to remember that a few months after release they upped the humanity drop rate something like a few-hundred-fold, but early on after release it really was a pain to get and was precious to hold onto. I think in my first 8 hours with the game I accumulated 2-3 humanity, whereas now after patching I can accumulate twice that just by climbing the Undead Burg / Parish in one go. Guy could easily be speaking about those pre-patch days. The same days when a few bosses would give up 1.5K souls but now give 10K

Dark Souls is merely a game, that you have to learn to play.

Alongside that, accept that you will lose humanity and so many souls.

Then have a good time!

CManator:

Jerry Pendleton:
I am all for an easier difficulty option for Dark Souls. As of right now I am in Anor Londo, about to fight Biggie Smalls, but I found that I can only play the game in short bursts due the game just being so mentally and emotionally draining. I can only take a cheap boss or moment for so long before I just turn off the game. Hell, it took be forever to complete Blighttown because those damn trolls are so annoying. Not to mention the poison lake pissed me off to no end mostly because I would run out of moss by then. And don't get me started about those damn Silver Knight archers in Anor Londo. When I play a game, I usually chose an easier difficultly (usually default) to get a sense on what I am getting myself into in the game. Hell if they turn off NG+ on easy mode, I would be all for the game. I usually use the easy option as practice anyways.

I like that idea. Though I would also add the inability to invade or summon in easy mode (except npcs). Easy mode with a catch like that sounds well within the spirit of Dark Souls.

I too like your idea about turning of invasions/summons unless they are NPCs.

Andy Chalk:

omicron1:
Uru and Grimrock - hard? Did I miss something?

Dark Souls is challenging on the level of NetHack. It's a game where the difficulty is substantial - but the rewards are equally so. Your comparison examples just don't cut it.

Of course they do. They're wickedly difficult games of different sorts. The comparison is spot-on.

And how exactly are the rewards of either Dark Souls or Nethack "substantial?" I think you'll find that it's the same sort of "yay good job" business that every game dishes out. Some gamers might get a big rush out of beating a particular boss fight after failing 50 times, but how is that any different than the one that others get when they work through a viciously obtuse adventure puzzle without the aid of a walkthrough?

La-Mulana has both obtuse puzzles and tough bosses.

Actually comparing Dark Souls to Nethack kind of makes sense. They are both difficult but they are also both fair. Nethack is possibly the most fair roguelike ever once you get to know how everything works.

I'm assuming the PC version contains all the patch changes from the console versions which made the game a good deal easier in many ways.

lacktheknack:

Akalabeth:
PC Gamers are soft

Can't reference a game from the win98 era as proof that they enjoy a challenge.

Gubble.

Riven, sans-walkthrough.

The Incredible Machine: Contraptions.

Jagged Alliance 2.

etc.

I was just trolling anyway hahaha.
I think more to the point is current gen gamers are soft. And they're soft because current gen devs treat them like morons. If you're treated like a baby you're going to act like a baby and whine when some game doesn't fit your preconceptions.

Case in point on devs treating gamers like morons is every game that gives you a hint on a problem before you've even had the chance to solve the problem for yourself (Batman and Gears of War are the most recent examples).

Thank god for Deus Ex HR though, probably the best game I've played this year. A game that largely lets you figure things out solutions to problems.

I think the hardest part as a new player is just figuring out where to go when, like me i started out in the cemetary and catacombs, dying alot, just because it was just the first place i had found that went "down" and figured the bell was down that way. when i finally found the proper route to the upper bell at lest it was leagues easier than mucking around in the dark and trying desperately to find the necros so i could lose the immortal skeletons that i could not kill.

Also some pats of the game are made for co op or at lest are a ton easier if you have help, or you need to grind levels period to take some areas on effectively at lest since with a good amount of practice theoretically anyone could solo the game at level 1 if they knew each and every monster and played perfectly basically, but most people especially those playing offline are going to just die a ton in parts without the help, some of the boss battles are tricky to get the vibe of, there are parts of the game that can kill any player no matter how good they are, but especially deadly to a noobie player just wandering around lost, and the games rather deadly habit of putting large mobs with nasty knockback and backstab attacks on narrow cliffs at an alarming clip.

It is almost a game that you have to wiki just to figure out certain concepts period. Some are flat out never explained at all, your first times into a level it is very easy to get lost or go in circle when your mostly focused on surviving. There a few areas of the game i would never have found period if it were not for youtube and having to look up videos because even reading the wiki i could not make out wth i needed to go.

offline players also lack the hints that online players can get, so there is that lack of info on that end also.

Shadowcreed:

Zeriah:
I didn't find Dark Souls very difficult at all (though it did have a few moments) - just unforgiving as well as some bullshit terrain (i.e Anor Londo silver knight archers or The Great Hollow). I hardly ever died during the combat and I'm sure that was true for a lot of people, so having an 'Easy Mode' wouldn't even accomplish much unless it came with a Prince of Persia type option.

I have to say I probably had most difficulty navigating the map as well. The terrain is out to kill you.

unoleian:

It's fair to remember that a few months after release they upped the humanity drop rate something like a few-hundred-fold, but early on after release it really was a pain to get and was precious to hold onto. I think in my first 8 hours with the game I accumulated 2-3 humanity, whereas now after patching I can accumulate twice that just by climbing the Undead Burg / Parish in one go. Guy could easily be speaking about those pre-patch days. The same days when a few bosses would give up 1.5K souls but now give 10K

I played it pretty early on, on xbox 360 but fair enough :p At least the fact that they changed it shows that they recognised that it needed tuning.

Charcharo:
Looking at the success at STALKER and some of its mods (like MISERY which makes you miserable :D ) Id say PC gamers prefer difficult games more, but the devs of demons souls are rethinking their difficulty options for a new game. At least I hope so. As long as there are punishing settings, one more acceptable setting may actually be good.

long as they call it lil punk bitch mode thats fine w me! lol

Akalabeth:
PC Gamers are soft

Can't reference a game from the win98 era as proof that they enjoy a challenge.

Alright.

Dungeons of Dredmor, Binding of Issac, SpaceChem, STALKER Misery, Men of War and DayZ to name a few that I've played in the past month.

I personally am all for an easier difficulty, but that's only because I have died... oh about 40,000 times in the game and it's really frustrating if you get to a certain area and boom! You keep dying. That said I like it because none of my friends like it.

That said as I saw else where in this thread, I too only play it if I'm well rested and mentally alert, otherwise it all goes to shit pretty quick.

So Yes throw in an easier difficulty, just keep the original difficulty too, hell throw in a harder one too, someone out there will appreciate it.

I've just been playing this game for a couple hours for the first time today.

...

I have a headache, I feel raped, and I kind of want to cry.

T_T

skywolfblue:
As one of those players who'd probably be interested in Dark Souls but hate the idea of "Redo the whole area if you fail" difficulty:

An easy mode would probably make me buy it.

not entirely true. its more like redo and entire section if you fail. the areas are divided up pretty well i think with bonfires, so long as you make a point to find them.
on top of that, you will run back and forth through areas alot anyway, at least until you get the lordvessel, so you just get really really good at wiping out everything in an area before they can get a hit in.

but yeah, there are few, and i mean VERY few, times where i ever felt like "FUCK I HAVE TO DO THAT ALL AGAIN!!!!", because of the good placement of bonfires. though there was one time i got to the bottom of blighttown swamp, lit the bonfire, then got killed by one of those fucking bee things. though this was pre patch, so they spawned infinitely.

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