Gabe Newell: Valve Would "Disintegrate" Under New Ownership

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Twilight_guy:
Valve: entirely staffed by hipsters who would rather quit then work for 'the man'.

Of wait, I'm supposed to mindless drone on about how great they are because I'm on the escapist and they're the golden child um, ugh... nope, I got nothing.

Well, if we look at how 'the man' has treated other gaming companies it has bought, I wouldn't blame them.

I don't see anything wrong with thinking your company can manage itself without the help of a publisher, specially if they've proven they can.

Danny Ocean:
Is there a comparison in another industry where there's this kind of difference in corporate structure?

Is it like John Lewis vs. British Home Stores?

Seems like Valve is basically a co-op video game company, while EA is more traditionally structured.

EA does seem to kick out an awful lot more games than valve, but I don't know how much bigger it is.

PRODUCTIVITY ANALYSIS REQUIRED

Games/Employee//Year!

GO!

EA Employees: 7,645

Valve Employees: 293

EA games/year = 984/30 = 32.8
Valve games/year = 29/16 = 1.8125

(Games were simply counted off the wikipedia lists, so include expansion packs and yearly released games and such)

7,645/32.8 = ~233
2.93/1.8125 = ~2

Sorry Valve, you're just renowned for being really, really unproductive.

your forgetting the fact that, it's EA, so 50% of the games released by them are copy/pastes of last years version, 45% are shit anyway, and only 5% are good.

where as all the games Vavle have released, have pretty much been held up as being gifts from on high, plus, they have steam, they can a ford to faff about.

That picture makes him look like a spectacled, tuskless walrus.

I don't know about the rest of you guys but I came for the beard >_>

Gaming's fat Jesus has spoken!

I'm inclined to agree. The same goes for economies you can't just go from Centrally Planned to Free Market over night and a new leader would have to be the same sort of idealist as Gabe or there be a slow change of hands.

tautologico:

MetalMagpie:
What I still don't understand is what a "bossless culture" actually is. Does the company really not have a management structure, or is the idea just that managers don't try to boss around the people they manage?

According to the Valve Employee Handbook (pdf) and what people who worked/works there said, it really is bossless. Not even Gabe Newell says what people should do. Of course they're aware that this is quite unique and not everyone is well equipped to work in such an environment, but it seems to work for them.

Yeah, I don't think that would be for me. My manager is my primary point of contact in the company. He's who I call if I need to take a sick day. He's who I talk to if I need extra training or if I'm having a problem with another employee. He's the guy who represents my team at meetings that decide the future of the company. (There are over 200 people in my company, and we can't all fit in a boardroom!)

I'm young and at the start of my career, so maybe that's got something to do with it. But I just really appreciate having someone who's job it is to have my back. Especially when I have to deal with impossible clients.

On the other hand, I appreciate the fact that my manager doesn't tell me what to work on. Work that needs doing gets pinned up on a board, and when I need a task I just go over to the board and pick something I fancy. Which means I can work on what I find most interesting or think is most important.

If EA bought Valve all their new games would be complete shit without a care for quality, the women would have huge tits as part of a day one DLC package, and Gordon Freeman would angst about random things no one cares about.

Well ValvEA would count to 3 it would be shit.
Valve may take FOREVER to do anything, but I would rather get quality then complete and utter shit that EA keeps churning out.

Gabe looks like he's evolving into a Jedi Master. Or Gordon Freeman's dad.

Be the Freemen, Valve. You are our only hope.

Twilight_guy:
Valve: entirely staffed by hipsters who would rather quit then work for 'the man'.

Of wait, I'm supposed to mindless drone on about how great they are because I'm on the escapist and they're the golden child um, ugh... nope, I got nothing.

Valve: entirely staffed by former hippies who would rather quit then work for 'the man'.

I have it on very good authority that the very minute they graduate from college, most hipsters will evolve into yuppies, mindless drones quite willing prostitute themselves to the 'the man' for status or wealth.

If EA bought up Valve I'd probably be at the EA HQ in California lobbing molotov cocktails, shouting "For freedom, for Steam, for VIDYA GAMES!"

Danny Ocean:
Is there a comparison in another industry where there's this kind of difference in corporate structure?

Is it like John Lewis vs. British Home Stores?

Seems like Valve is basically a co-op video game company, while EA is more traditionally structured.

EA does seem to kick out an awful lot more games than valve, but I don't know how much bigger it is.

PRODUCTIVITY ANALYSIS REQUIRED

Games/Employee//Year!

GO!

EA Employees: 7,645

Valve Employees: 293

EA games/year = 984/30 = 32.8
Valve games/year = 29/16 = 1.8125

(Games were simply counted off the wikipedia lists, so include expansion packs and yearly released games and such)

7,645/32.8 = ~233
2.93/1.8125 = ~2

Sorry Valve, you're just renowned for being really, really unproductive.

Thanks for demonstrating in only one post everything wrong with the gaming industry (or even the entertainment industry or business culture as a whole).

When you boil everything down into numbers, all meaning is lost and you can make them say whatever you want.

First: I mean you're actually rooting for game companies to prioritize sheer output!
Second: EA publish many many games they don't make (including some of Valve's!) and the games they do make are made by the many "Valve-sized" developers they own. By that metric maybe I should count every game released on Steam in Valve's output.
Last: You're somehow making 1.8 games per year sound bad! What's the development cycle for a good game? 2 years at the very least (Mass Effect 3) and around 5 at the most (Elder Scrolls titles).

But if you really want business numbers, how much is Valve worth? Well, their finances are private but an estimate puts them at around 2.5B$
How much is that per employee? 2 500 000 000 / 293 = 8 532 423
See what I mean when i say you can play with numbers? Each employee at Valve is worth 8.5 million dollars. I think they're doing alright.

By the way, what's another company that makes mountains of cash? Oh right, Blizzard. They make way more than 1.8 games per year amirite?

And a pattern emerges... If I was a number dummy I might take away from all this that the most successful game companies are the ones that make the least amount of games!

Lunar Templar:

Danny Ocean:
Is there a comparison in another industry where there's this kind of difference in corporate structure?

Is it like John Lewis vs. British Home Stores?

Seems like Valve is basically a co-op video game company, while EA is more traditionally structured.

EA does seem to kick out an awful lot more games than valve, but I don't know how much bigger it is.

PRODUCTIVITY ANALYSIS REQUIRED

Games/Employee//Year!

GO!

EA Employees: 7,645

Valve Employees: 293

EA games/year = 984/30 = 32.8
Valve games/year = 29/16 = 1.8125

(Games were simply counted off the wikipedia lists, so include expansion packs and yearly released games and such)

7,645/32.8 = ~233
2.93/1.8125 = ~2

Sorry Valve, you're just renowned for being really, really unproductive.

your forgetting the fact that, it's EA, so 50% of the games released by them are copy/pastes of last years version, 45% are shit anyway, and only 5% are good.

where as all the games Vavle have released, have pretty much been held up as being gifts from on high, plus, they have steam, they can a ford to faff about.

AHAHAHA. Yeah ok. It's not like CS:GO or DOTA 2 are EXACT remakes of the previous titles, nope not at all.It's not like left 4 dead 2 is almost exactly same game as left 4 dead(with few more different zombie types, few more guns and new campaign- you know, just like COD you all hate).

And just so you know, 984* 0.05 = ~49 good games, more games than Valve made in total. So keep spinning your bullshit tale about Valve is just so AMAZING while EA is EVIL, BAD GAME MAKER. Maybe you guys would like to jerk each other off too... oh wait, you are doing that already.

dragonnewby:

AHAHAHA. Yeah ok. It's not like CS:GO or DOTA 2 are EXACT remakes of the previous titles, nope not at all.It's not like left 4 dead 2 is almost exactly same game as left 4 dead(with few more different zombie types, few more guns and new campaign- you know, just like COD you all hate).

And just so you know, 984* 0.05 = ~49 good games, more games than Valve made in total. So keep spinning your bullshit tale about Valve is just so AMAZING while EA is EVIL, BAD GAME MAKER. Maybe you guys would like to jerk each other off too... oh wait, you are doing that already.

right, cause the few times valve have made the same game again is TOTALLY the same thing as what EA dose, ever, fucking, year. yup, totally the same thing

actually, by MY personal count, EA has only made ONE! game I'd call good, based solely on its the only thing they've made in like, 10+ years worth my attention and far as I'm concerned that's the only 'statistic' that matters

also, if your half as smart as your pretending to be, you'd know 'sarcastic math' when its presented. clearly, the number of good games from EA is lower then 5%, i just don't care enough to look, and it wasn't needed to prove my point.

yours, I'm still waiting for

Lunar Templar:

dragonnewby:

AHAHAHA. Yeah ok. It's not like CS:GO or DOTA 2 are EXACT remakes of the previous titles, nope not at all.It's not like left 4 dead 2 is almost exactly same game as left 4 dead(with few more different zombie types, few more guns and new campaign- you know, just like COD you all hate).

And just so you know, 984* 0.05 = ~49 good games, more games than Valve made in total. So keep spinning your bullshit tale about Valve is just so AMAZING while EA is EVIL, BAD GAME MAKER. Maybe you guys would like to jerk each other off too... oh wait, you are doing that already.

right, cause the few times valve have made the same game again is TOTALLY the same thing as what EA dose, ever, fucking, year. yup, totally the same thing

actually, by MY personal count, EA has only made ONE! game I'd call good, based solely on its the only thing they've made in like, 10+ years worth my attention and far as I'm concerned that's the only 'statistic' that matters

also, if your half as smart as your pretending to be, you'd know 'sarcastic math' when its presented. clearly, the number of good games from EA is lower then 5%, i just don't care enough to look, and it wasn't needed to prove my point.

yours, I'm still waiting for

Well yeah except Valve made less games. Also Valve is pretty early in its corporate cycle. When it picks up(if it does I mean, they make too few games for them to go anywhere), they are going to milk like hell just like everyone other major entertainment corporation. EA made tons of good games. They made bad ones too, just like any corporation that takes risks. And I like how you say "worth my attention" just to prove yourself as this superior being that looks at only the "best" games and everything below is basically for sheep who *gasp* have different tastes than you.

And actually I proved my point also. Even if EA has low percentage of games that are good, it's still more than Valve. Just to be clear, I don't hate Valve, but I find this forum's as well as internet's obsession with it, absolutely atrocious. They are a business just like any other and all they care about is money, they are just not big enough to abuse the system like EA does.

lotr rocks 0:

You have a bit of a numbers error there,sir. If you had done that correctly, you would have gotten 161.65, which is MUCH more respectable.

Are you sure, Maybe Valve only have 2.93 people working for them. =D

tkioz:

kiri2tsubasa:
Out of curiosity, who is slated to take over Valve when Newell retires? It is possible that whoever takes over could negatively affect the company causing dissension and many employees leaving if the person in question isn't that popular regardless of qualifications.

Since the company is privately held, I imagine it's whoever is in his will, and absent him making that information public there is no-way to know.

If the big man is around long enough, I wonder if either of his sons will have been groomed to take over.

Maybe it'll just turn out like Redmond vs Blutarch.

dragonnewby:

Well yeah except Valve made less games. Also Valve is pretty early in its corporate cycle. When it picks up(if it does I mean, they make too few games for them to go anywhere), they are going to milk like hell just like everyone other major entertainment corporation. EA made tons of good games. They made bad ones too, just like any corporation that takes risks. And I like how you say "worth my attention" just to prove yourself as this superior being that looks at only the "best" games and everything below is basically for sheep who *gasp* have different tastes than you.

my count was incorrect, EA has turned out 2 games i would call good, Alice: The Madness Returns and Amalur, not key to any thing just correcting my self :D

um ... yeah, if a games not worth my attention, then, its not worth my money o.o? whats the problem exactly? that i have a mind of my own and play only what i like and am not fraid of some twat I'll never met in person calling my a 'noob' or something for not liking what ever 'fad' game is out right now we're supposed to like cause its new and shiny?

And actually I proved my point also. Even if EA has low percentage of games that are good, it's still more than Valve. Just to be clear, I don't hate Valve, but I find this forum's as well as internet's obsession with it, absolutely atrocious. They are a business just like any other and all they care about is money, they are just not big enough to abuse the system like EA does.

Valve has steam, which makes them money hand over fist, so they don't actually NEED to turn out any games to make money, Steam is paying all the bills not Half Life of Portal. which is a better place to be in then EA, it means what ever games they make, are made for the love of gaming, rather then making a profit, and while they need to get it in gear .... the fact so many hold the few games they have released up as gifts from god (yes i know i used it again) speaks volumes for the quality of the work done, even if they only thing they've made i like is Portal 1 an 2.

unlike EA, who has to crank out games, most of which are copy/pastes from 5+ years ago just to stay a float because, they have tons more people working for them, not to mention the millions needlessly spend on marketing which leads to the situation Dead Space 3 is in, (note: not a fan of dead space, but i still think its bull shit) and general 'lowest common denominator' rout their forcing the studios they own to take to try an make that profit, with out realizing that will hurt them in the long run.

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