immovablemover: Because gaming PC's cost several times more than consoles, often have non-RTS exclusive games and offer local multiplayer without a shit ton of work.
Why are all these people in high paid positions fucking retarded?
I...can't figure out which side you're arguing for or against here.
Edit: Wait I got it now, your wording was just really really poor.
LAN is difficult? lolno. Also most console games don't offer local multiplayer (outside of just two people). At least not without multiple consoles. And that's a lot harder than having multiple PCs in one place, using a the same network router.
Urabutln: These industry people slamming the consoles have a point, sure, but they are also speaking from a bubble of total blindness to pricing structures, since they don't have to pay for their stuff themselves. Yes, The PS4 might be akin to a $800 PC, and you could get a monster PC for $1600 that would blow it out of the water, on paper.
But the reality is that the PS4 (and the new XBOX) will cost between $300 and $500, and its unified architecture means that developers will know exactly what kind of machine they're making their game for, resulting in some serious optimization. I mean these comments were bandied about when the X360 and the PS3 came out as well - they still sold 170 million units between them, and their software was impressive long after their hardware was all but obsolete.
Its an $1800 PC now but in 18 months time it will be a $500 PC and in two years it will be a $300 PC, whereas the PS4 will still be the same power and the same price in two years time. The PS4 spec ins't far ahead of the average PC as the PS3 in terms of power. Since the addition of the hardware allocation layer in win2k, the hardware on a PC is so far away the windows API that its an effectively a unified architecture.
Agreed. Also another point that consoles have is that they just work, no technical knowledge other than plug into TV required. Don't get me wrong I love my PC's (I built them myself and bought a laptop), and I use them more than any of my consoles now. However I can see the role they serve and the advantages they have. I think it speaks volumes of the industry that negativity and condeming others in the industry like this is so common and routines. Rather saddening.
Yeah, it's all well and good saying there is no difference from ps4 to pc being good with PCs, however I know people that struggle with anything on a computer. For them, a console where they can buy a disc, put it in and play is going to be far better than a box with a load of numbers that they have to compare to their PC. Not to mention, most people HAVE a tv, so the cost is literally just the console. PC you have to buy everything, in theory anyway. Take away the cost of a decent monitor from the cost of a console and you don't have much left for parts.
Err did you quote the wrong person? I was saying that consoles have their place and practically the same thing as you are, sure I don't use mine as much as I use to but I do see them having those roles.
No matter how much you moan how superior PCs are to consoles, consoles are here to stay, so suck it up.
Yours sincerely,
The rest of the world.
EDIT: For clarification, I play both PC and console games. I'm just fed up of devs making these pointless comments. Both have pros and cons. People have only had since the 80's do deal with it.
But we didn't have the internet in the 80s to serve as an echo chamber for insane fringe groups.
Lord_Gremlin: A highly specialized device is always better at what it does than a more universal one.
See,the fallacy in your logic is assuming a gaming PC is a "universal" device. It isn't. A high-end GPU -- hell, even a middle range one -- essentially turns your desktop into a highly specialized gaming device. You can't argue with the numbers: my videocard, for example, does over 4 TeraFLOPS. Compare that with the PS4's estimated 1.8 TFLOPS.
The only true advantage of a console over a gaming PC is price.
immovablemover: Because gaming PC's cost several times more than consoles, often have non-RTS exclusive games and offer local multiplayer without a shit ton of work.
Why are all these people in high paid positions fucking retarded?
They do not cost several more times. There are MANY more exclusives on PCs, and have better backwards compatibility. Local Multiplayer is supported by few PC games, true, but VERY few games on consoles in recent history support it either. Also, its a possible mod for a PC game :).
Also, when will people understand that consoles do not run on high/very high settings. They are usually on low-med settings when compared to a PC, so toning the settings down is not a bad idea for a PC gamer. Also, a PC is something that is usually NECESARY in today's world. A console is not, so why not just get a decent computer (nothing fancy, 300-450 dollars or maybe less/more) instead of a 150-200 computer and a 250 dollar console?
I can tell you in a few words what the benefit of PS4 over PC gaming is. You can argue that it isn't actually a 'benefit' all you want, but the fact remains that this is the truth, the reason why the console market is going to exist for the foreseeable future, and the reason why you making these comments just makes you sound extremely silly. Are you ready for this? 'Cause it's likely to blow your mind. Here we go:
Console plebs like me like gaming on consoles. Simple as that. You can argue specs, prices, marketplaces, graphical capabilities and potential obsolescence all you want, but at the end of the day, me and a huge chunk of gamers just like sitting back with a console and gaming that way.
Correction: Since you'd have to match the theoretical processing power of the PS4 (~1.8TFLOPS), the cheapest card you can get is a second-hand 6970 for about $150. So no, you only save $30. ;)
Lord_Gremlin: A highly specialized device is always better at what it does than a more universal one.
See,the fallacy in your logic is assuming a gaming PC is a "universal" device. It isn't. A high-end GPU -- hell, even a middle range one -- essentially turns your desktop into a highly specialized gaming device. You can't argue with the numbers: my videocard, for example, does over 4 TeraFLOPS. Compare that with the PS4's estimated 1.8 TFLOPS.
The only true advantage of a console over a gaming PC is price.
I agree to the statement that one can make PC highly specialized - but only to a degree. I used the term in the most broad sense. For example, a lot of games come out on consoles only. To be honest, I feel like PC gaming should move away from Windows - that's when you can truly say that any consoles are left in the dust for good. Even simplest things like memory usage... What requires 512 mb on a console with iron-level coding will require 4 gb on Win. Of course, nowadays it's easy to build a PC with 4x8=32 gb of RAM, so PS4 won't have an advantage there. Thing is, it all comes down to - will it be worth it? If the games will look the same, PC will - once again - feel expensive and inconvenient. I feel like Valve and Linux could do some revolutionary stuff... But that's all just wild dreams.
SonOfMethuselah: I can tell you in a few words what the benefit of PS4 over PC gaming is. You can argue that it isn't actually a 'benefit' all you want, but the fact remains that this is the truth, the reason why the console market is going to exist for the foreseeable future, and the reason why you making these comments just makes you sound extremely silly. Are you ready for this? 'Cause it's likely to blow your mind. Here we go:
Console plebs like me like gaming on consoles. Simple as that. You can argue specs, prices, marketplaces, graphical capabilities and potential obsolescence all you want, but at the end of the day, me and a huge chunk of gamers just like sitting back with a console and gaming that way.
Think I'll be skipping the next gen consoles and build myself a new PC once my Asus G73JW starts to show it's age. After having the freedom to mod my games, I can't really go back to the closed system that are consoles.
immovablemover: Because gaming PC's cost several times more than consoles, often have non-RTS exclusive games and offer local multiplayer without a shit ton of work.
I can think of a fair few PC exclusive games that arn't RTS's:
Team Fortress 2 (Was released on PS3 and X360 as part of the orange box but hasn't been updated in years) Amnesia: Dark Descent Chivilry: Medieval Warfare WoW and Guild Wars The Longest Journey
Not forgetting the slew of Indie Games that arn't on PSN or XBLA
All I know is that I've had one PS3 since launch, have never had to pay for any sort of upgrade, and can without a doubt say I can play any and every PS3 game. How many PC gamers can say that? Oh, and I've spent next to nothing compared to what "decent" PC rigs cost.
PoolCleaningRobot: [quote="SonOfMethuselah" post="7.403687.16695725"]I can tell you in a few words what the benefit of PS4 over PC gaming is. You can argue that it isn't actually a 'benefit' all you want, but the fact remains that this is the truth, the reason why the console market is going to exist for the foreseeable future, and the reason why you making these comments just makes you sound extremely silly. Are you ready for this? 'Cause it's likely to blow your mind. Here we go:
Console plebs like me like gaming on consoles. Simple as that. You can argue specs, prices, marketplaces, graphical capabilities and potential obsolescence all you want, but at the end of the day, me and a huge chunk of gamers just like sitting back with a console and gaming that way.
I own a Wii, 360 and a PS3, but also own a dedicating gaming PC. I've had more than enough time (several years) to own all of these without breaking bank or being rich.
There really is no point whatsoever in me playing either console except to play some decent exclusives, e.g. Uncharted. This happens maybe once or twice a year. Otherwise, most games these days are cross-ported to Windows. While not always great, most of the time they're playable, and a good portion of the time they're much better than their console version. One of the best companies as of late is Nixxes, they make the best PC ports bar none. (They recently helped in porting Tomb Raider 2013 to PC, and it was phenomenal.)
Aside from that, my PC is capable of emulating every past platform ever with the click of a mouse. I own literally every old generation ROM from Atari to PlayStation 2, on a little HDD. That's 2TB of the majority of past generations. Click a button, and I'm playing a game of my choice out of hundreds of thousands stored, in "HD". You don't just play them, you emulate them at higher resolution, add filtering, anti-aliasing, etc. The Gamecube emulator "Dolphin" even lets you convert to Stereoscopic.
The best communities are on PC.
Games are made on PC.
Simple wonders like Minecraft can only be produced from a PC world.
I do love consoles. I grew up on Nintendo and my wonder years were in the PlayStation era with Resi Evil, MGS and Silent Hill. Just do me a favor, don't bullshit me, don't tell me PC is dying or that consoles are "superior" in some fashion other than being easy.
Oh, you can hook your console up to a TV? I can do that with my PC too! Who would have thought?! The wonders of HDMI... I have a 3D DLP projector at 106", and you've never seen 3D gaming until you've played a 3D PC game..
I'm truly sick of the flak that PC users take for simply stating the damn obvious.
Off-topic: this article reminds me to pre-order Hell & Damnnation for my X360. OT: I am not to suprised when PC's are still better hardware wise then a PS4.
I'm truly sick of the flak that PC users take for simply stating the damn obvious.
There is a difference from stating the obvious and being a dick about it. 95% of PC gamers state it and insult those who think otherwise. Thus being a dick about it.
I don't understand why people have such difficulty with the concept of building a PC..
"Do this people also struggle with lego?" Because that is how difficult it is, building it anyway. Just follow the instructions.
"Can they not learn to research the parts?" It takes maybe a week to get used to the jargon, I went from buying prebuilts to building my own in the span of a month.
"But they want to just use a disc and then play!" Yeah me too, minus the disc, that's why I have Steam, download and play, even easier.
"Need to make sure their game can run on their machine?" Overkill overkill overkill. Buy a gaming rig that is far more powerful than you need, you'll save money in the long term and be able to run everything.
"But PCs are so expensive!" Again, short term they are, but considering you can do everything on them, and that the games are literally half the price, or less than console games, you save money.
I have a steam collection of $3000 worth, or more by now. I've likely spent less than $1000 on it, due to steam sales, indie bundles and everything else.
I don't know, I just don't understand how PC vs console argument even exists, the console is an inferior machine in every way, I can understand it for kids, teenagers, something simple to use, but for people who are passionate about gaming, who have huge collections of games, and spend a large time gaming (and who can't afford every platform) I do not understand why you would pick a console over a PC.
Urabutln: These industry people slamming the consoles have a point, sure, but they are also speaking from a bubble of total blindness to pricing structures, since they don't have to pay for their stuff themselves. Yes, The PS4 might be akin to a $800 PC, and you could get a monster PC for $1600 that would blow it out of the water, on paper.
But the reality is that the PS4 (and the new XBOX) will cost between $300 and $500, and its unified architecture means that developers will know exactly what kind of machine they're making their game for, resulting in some serious optimization. I mean these comments were bandied about when the X360 and the PS3 came out as well - they still sold 170 million units between them, and their software was impressive long after their hardware was all but obsolete.
You should subtract what you would pay for a non-gaming PC anyway from the price of a gaming PC. If you use a console, I guess that means that you still use a PC for other functions (even if you don't, most people do).
It would probably still cost more than one of the new consoles, but not by all that much.
nice to see that devs are acting just like trolls now, guess it's a good thing most these devs don't make stuff I want, not big on supporting stupidity
I agree to the statement that one can make PC highly specialized - but only to a degree. I used the term in the most broad sense. For example, a lot of games come out on consoles only.
Exclusivity is not an indicator of a console's specialization. It merely says that the console's company is really, really good at making deals with developers. Again, do not ignore the numbers: A gaming PC simply does far more calculations than even the upcoming PS4.
To be honest, I feel like PC gaming should move away from Windows - that's when you can truly say that any consoles are left in the dust for good. Even simplest things like memory usage... What requires 512 mb on a console with iron-level coding will require 4 gb on Win. Of course, nowadays it's easy to build a PC with 4x8=32 gb of RAM, so PS4 won't have an advantage there.
You don't even need 32GB of RAM. Like I said, games only use up to 1GB of System RAM, and 8GB pretty much sets you in the clear for running a game _and_ a 32-tab browser on your second screen, while you're watching a video. I know because I've done that so many times.
What you really need is a powerful video card with sufficient VRAM.
Thing is, it all comes down to - will it be worth it? If the games will look the same, PC will - once again - feel expensive and inconvenient. I feel like Valve and Linux could do some revolutionary stuff... But that's all just wild dreams.
Have you even seen comparison videos between current-gen consoles and high-end PCs? The differences are night and day. Now you might argue that the PS4 is more powerful, but again, it can only do 1.8 TFLOPS. That's the equivalent of a Radeon HD 7850, which is a mid-range card. So if anything, your next-gen console will only look as good as what my rig could do two years ago. And lemme tell you, it's pretty, but far from what my current GTX 690 can do.
More open platform Many options for hardware Superior graphics Higher resolutions Higher frame rate Mods A solid build can last a LONG time (5-6 years) before any upgrades are necessary Much easier to record gaming sessions (no capture card required) Steam Overclocking Larger power supply removes the need for underclocking hardware, thus minimalising OS drain on resources
PC cons:
Cost One person per PC They're fucking huge Occasionally buggy game due to plethora of hardware options Dev apathy Origin Possible destruction of hardware due to improperly overclocking
Console pros:
Ease of access Cost Multiple players per system More Dev support PS4 at least will have built in recording and sharing Dedicated OS prevents unnecessary drain on resources Standardized hardware allows for better optimization They're fucking small
Console cons:
Hardware becomes dated Lower resolutions Lower frame rates Capture card required for recording (on current systems) Hardware becomes underclocked a bit due to power restrictions
Bam, argument done.
They both have pros and cons, and many game on both. Can we just end this please?
Pc vs console thread:YO dog not much just starting a flame war you?
Me:Deciding if I should comment or not
Pc vs console thread: DUUUUUUUUUUDE you should like totally comment it would be great y'know
Me: Yeah but every time I do it's just people bitching and moaning at other for liking different things
Pc vs console thread: But that the point man we wouldn't have these threads otherwise
Me: I know it's just disheartening to see people sqwabble like this, so I like you'sing a console more because for me it's more familiar and therefore easier but people feel the need to make me change.
Pc vs console thread: But man PC is like so much more better and stuff, for just being to lazy and stupid.
me: Yeah maybe PC is better and maybe it's just me being lazy and if I tried I could work it out perfectly.........but I'm not tech savy and I already have old 360 here who never broken once for me,you know it was difficult for me to even set it up because I found the instruction to complicated.
Pc vs console thread: Man you must be really stupid if you can't even work that out.
Me: Maybe I am, my point is, people like what they know, change is scary and what might seem easy for you is difficult for other so......I just wish they could understand that.
Pc vs console thread: GUHH your no fun at all, just being all passive and shit I'm outer here.
I like a few functions that were announced but so far I personally cannot see a real benefit from buying that instead of a gaming PC,
Really? There are some benefits to consoles over PC's that haven't gone away recently.
For instance you never have to worry if your console doesn't have good enough specs to play the latest PS4/Wii U game. If it's for that console it'll play it. Also there's less updating the hardware and no DRM ... ever.
As for the PS4 well it comes with the ability to record footage without eating up processor power (since it's a separate chip specifically for that purpose), and without having to download software from the internet that might have a virus.
More open platform Many options for hardware Superior graphics Higher resolutions Higher frame rate Mods A solid build can last a LONG time (5-6 years) before any upgrades are necessary
A console cycle is always 5-6 years so that should really be a wash if not a pro for the consoles (since not every PC build lasts that long).
Where the hell does this idea come from that you need to spend thousands of dollars on a rig?
Well for me it comes from spending just over 1K and many hours to build a PC that resembles the monolith, only for it to choke and die trying to max anything nice looking at a measly 1600x900.
OT: Oh yay PC Vs. Consoles round 138752. I almost wonder if the Escapist post these just because they know the flame wars generate hits
Urabutln: These industry people slamming the consoles have a point, sure, but they are also speaking from a bubble of total blindness to pricing structures, since they don't have to pay for their stuff themselves. Yes, The PS4 might be akin to a $800 PC, and you could get a monster PC for $1600 that would blow it out of the water, on paper.
But the reality is that the PS4 (and the new XBOX) will cost between $300 and $500, and its unified architecture means that developers will know exactly what kind of machine they're making their game for, resulting in some serious optimization. I mean these comments were bandied about when the X360 and the PS3 came out as well - they still sold 170 million units between them, and their software was impressive long after their hardware was all but obsolete.
more like PS4 will be hardly above to a PC that cost 600 dollars and likely sell at 600 dollars. PC is an investment. i know its hard to understand for generation of ADHD, but when you buy a PC you get your money back tenfold with games not costing way too much and being able to upgrade your PC as time goes by quite easily.
BernardoOne: Ok,thath made no sense at all. You are dreaming if you think you can buy a PC with the same performance as PS4 for 500$. Its simply not possible.
Alas, you were correct. You can't get a PC with the same perf. for $500. It's $450.98 + shipping. Takes under 3hrs for someone with no experience to build it all, or i'll do it for $20 if you want. Bonus points for the 2tb HDD included in that deal. That's over 2000hrs of high definition porn, with room left over for every Mass Effect, Crysis, Ass Creed, Call of Duty and Battlefield made.
I have that exact same graphics card. Here's me playing Monster Hunter Tri while watching Yahtzee. (supplement your favorite PS2/GC/Wii game and porn in your head)
(I would personally use the $50 left from the $500 to buy a better power supply, just in case. Although if you've been playing on consoles, even the shittiest of PSUs will seem like it's lasted a long time. My power supply has a 7 year warranty. No idea what warranty's on my CPU - i've never heard of a dead i5-2500k that's not user broken)
Sorry brah, that is not even close to PS4 performance. Nice try though.
SonOfMethuselah: Console plebs like me like gaming on consoles. Simple as that. You can argue specs, prices, marketplaces, graphical capabilities and potential obsolescence all you want, but at the end of the day, me and a huge chunk of gamers just like sitting back with a console and gaming that way.
Which is ridiculous, because "sitting back with a console" isn't different in any way from "lying down with a laptop" or "sitting down by a PC" except in that it's way more inconvenient.
If you prefer playing with a TV - guess what, you can plug a PC into a TV these days with the magic of HDMI cables.
If you prefer using a gamepad controller - for one, God have mercy on your soul, and secondly, yeah, guess what? Those fit into PCs too.
If you prefer being able to "pick up and play" ... well, I hope you kept your N64 because that shit ain't happening on modern consoles. Functionally they are PCs, with the same limitations and then some extra ones added to it. It's equally possible to "pick up and play" - if not easier - on a regular PC.
ron1n: I swear every single time this same thread has started up, all I can think of is this:
I still can't figure it though. Are all these 'industry people' actually just the most epic of trolls?
Or are they just brilliant marketers?
Couldn't agree with you more except I usually see less adults. I think these 'industry people' are both brilliant marketers and the most epic of trolls. Brilliant because they know with just a few words, they will get their ignorant public sniping at each other like little children. The most epic of trolls because they like sniping at each other like little children themselves. But really, I wish they would stop making these stupid comments. In the end, they don't help themselves or us.
SonOfMethuselah: Console plebs like me like gaming on consoles. Simple as that. You can argue specs, prices, marketplaces, graphical capabilities and potential obsolescence all you want, but at the end of the day, me and a huge chunk of gamers just like sitting back with a console and gaming that way.
Which is ridiculous, because "sitting back with a console" isn't different in any way from "lying down with a laptop" or "sitting down by a PC" except in that it's way more inconvenient.
If you prefer playing with a TV - guess what, you can plug a PC into a TV these days with the magic of HDMI cables.
If you prefer using a gamepad controller - for one, God have mercy on your soul, and secondly, yeah, guess what? Those fit into PCs too.
If you prefer being able to "pick up and play" ... well, I hope you kept your N64 because that shit ain't happening on modern consoles. Functionally they are PCs, with the same limitations and then some extra ones added to it. It's equally possible to "pick up and play" - if not easier - on a regular PC.
I do believe you misunderstood. When I said "sitting back," I was not referring to "sitting down." I meant it more along the lines of "sit back, relax... etc." I was not suggesting that "sitting back" is not something that can be done with a PC or a laptop, nor was I suggesting that computers cannot be plugged into TVs, nor was I suggesting that controllers are where my preference lies, nor even was I referring to the idea of "pick up and play." Your desire to lash out over a completely innocuous statement is unsettling to say the least.
When I said "sitting back with a console," I meant some gamers are always going to prefer gaming on consoles. Full-stop, that was it. There was no deeper meaning to the statement. I like console gaming because I like console gaming. I feel no need to justify my choice, it's just what I like to do. And there are many people who feel the same way. If you prefer gaming on PC, good on you, but don't attack me for my choice, and don't put words into my mouth.
This whole debate is boring. You like PCs, I like consoles. And I likely will be a console gamer until the console market collapses in on itself (which, considering the state it's in, is pretty likely). Deal with it.
SonOfMethuselah: When I said "sitting back with a console," I meant some gamers are always going to prefer gaming on consoles. Full-stop, that was it.
Except it's a really stupid thing to say.
Except you really had nothing else to say apart from "it's a really stupid thing to say", meaning you intended to lash out at him in the first place.
I like console gaming the same as him for the same exact reasons and I also like some PC gaming but debates like this will never cease because it's obvious the PC side wants to bash in and force console users to conform to their suggestions rather than i don't know just leaving them alone.
