Update: Xbox One To Take Cut With Every Pre-Owned Sale

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I used to feel bad that I couldn't keep up with current consoles...now, not so much.

It'd be quite ironic if these same game retailers then refused to sell the XBones. Not going to happen but it'd make me chortle.

So wait. I won't be able to lend games to my friends anymore?

NOPE NopE NOPE!

7

Me: Ah, good to see you take proper form Microsoft. I'll be supporting you all the way.

MS: "So you'll buy one on launch day, and help boost our sales of our great new machine?"

Me: Yea, no. With the combination of your totally unreliable hardware and you're constant attempts to undermine your customer base by excluding SD Tv's that, many people still have due to financial or personal reasons, I probably won't ever be getting a "XBone". I'll probably just get a PS4 and maybe a WiiU. The new inFamous looks pretty cool and Nintendo always rolls out gems.

MS: "But why them and not us? Sony put that pointless share function that you'll never use with no backwards capability and Nintendo chose to make a console that's only as powerful as the current generation with a stupid touch pad controller. So why will you buy from them and not us?"

Me: It's mostly because when they fuck me up the ass, they have the common courtsey to use some lube as so I at least feel good about my purchase.

StayCalmAndHateXbox:
LoL why do people care if gamestop gets bent over on this deal? Its not like they havent been ripping people off for years themselves. Who buys used that much anyway?

Is there another way to easily sell games? Besides, its not like they are holding you down and forcing you to accept their offer.

Krantos:

I don't think most people are upset over it. I see it more being a case of people realizing this is a horrible move on Microsoft's part as they're alienating basically every Used Games retailer.

Personally, I don't care who gets the cut of the sale, and you also make a good point regarding the price. However, when places like Gamestop are the leading retailer for games for most people, if they decide to simply not carry Xbox One stuff because of this, MS is going to feel it.

For me there's just too many unanswered questions to see if this works. I mean, if MS is in charge of letting you play the used game, that means a physical disc you trade in is effectively worthless. You'd need to pay MS to install it at all, meaning the retailer's cut for used games are cut from like 60-70% to 10%. No game retailer would take that deal, especially if every other console maker isn't bothering with this. I get that companies like GameStop have too good of a deal with used games right now, but that's not a compromise... that's just turning the tables on a raw deal, everyone loses. Plus this isn't taking into account that pirates everywhere will be working day one to find a jailbreak, which lets them play used games for free. That's the biggest issue in my eyes; when you leave it to online codes and Pay2Play strategies to reel in used game sales, you're asking to get exploited.

The ball's sort of in Sony's court right now. Judging by Sony's recent history with anti-piracy practices, you'd think they'd realize now that pissing off that demographic is very very bad for your network security. Sony seems to be sticking it to GameStop their own way, by selling digital versions of retail games, offering sales at launch, giving away full games to PS+ subscribers. Unlike Microsoft, they're trying to beat competition with honey rather than vinegar, and I have to hope it'll work for them if they stick to that practice. If it doesn't, I've kinda lost faith in gaming humanity.

CriticalMiss:

Drop_D-Bombshell:
They patch one foot and shoot the other. Seems that every step they take they look more like an ass. I doubt many gaming retailers will accept this, especially Cex, who are primarily reliant on second-hand sales.

Aren't they totally reliant on used sales? I don't think I've ever seen anything new in there, though I've never really been interested in their game section.

Whilst I think it's a kind of shitty idea, at least the publishers are getting a cut of used sales rather than everything going to the retailers. But I expect that Microsoft will be taking the lion's share of every used sale. I'd rather spend the extra cash and get a game new. Not that I will be buying any Xbone games in the first place.

I think sometimes they sell new games, not entirely sure. I remember seeing Halo 4 on sale there after buying it on launch day. it was around 10am so it might be they did unless someone bought a bunch and then immediately sold to Cex. Anyway, i'll doubt i'll be seeing Xbox One titles in Cex...

Reyalsfeihc:
MCV Misquoted their Source.

MCV states that in the article from ConsoleDeals.co.uk it is suggested that retail will only receive a 10% cut from used game sales.

However, when reading the ConsoleDeals article it states that the maximum retail price of used games at 35 euros would only be a 10% discount on RRP.

The source revealed that game retailers will be forced to sell second hand games at just a 10% discount on the original RRP. This news will come as a shock to consumers who are currently used to purchasing trade-in games at up to 50% of the retail value.

Nowhere in the source article does it discuss the percent cut retailers would take from any used sales.

Thanks for finding that. Although the discussion is going a different way in this thread due to that misconception/misquote, the reality suggested by your find might be even more damaging. If the discount is true it's obviously not much better than buying a game new or waiting for a sale (which seem to come almost alarmingly soon after release these days). I don't claim to know much about the mindset of people who buy used often, but they do so because it's a cheap way to run through a lot of games.

This is just me, talking, but I'm fairly sure that people buy used because they have a lot of time to play games but not enough money to buy a lot of them. The people who have a lot of money to buy a lot of new games don't have enough time to play any of them, so they don't. If you stop one end of the cycle, the ability for people to buy cheap games easily, there are a lot of games that won't sell. Gamers who have little money will save their money for the few games they can afford just like more moneyed gamers save their time for games they want to spend the time to play.

If this is true, I think we'll end up with hundreds of used games on shelves that will be bought by no one.

The Pink Pansy:
The big reason is simply that this forces prices on Xbone games to start high and stay high perpetually (please note, 35 British Pounds = $53 USD) and kills the used game market, preventing people who can't afford to buy full price games from buying games at all.

This is the real kicker in the story - not the 10% merchant cut. I've owned the Xbox 360 since 2008 and have only purchased three games costing more than $30 USD (out of a library of about 30 games; yeah, I'm not a big console player). Hell, I only buy from Steam/GOG during a sale. There's no way I want a machine were the minimum cost of a game is $53 USD.

Really, at this point I'm going back to table-top RPGs - and I'll choose OSR/Indie for that, too, to spite Hasbro/Wizards.

Ok, here's what I do with my games... My mother works as a volunteer in GRAACC, which is akin to Hospital Saint Jude in the USA, it's a non profit organization (hospital, in this case) that treats children with cancer. Obviously most of those kids are ALSO children who come from relatively poor family's, or in the case of Brazil that come from far away and have no place to stay when they come looking for treatment. McDonald's gave a house/mansion for them, named "Ronald McDonald House" where they get to rest in those occasions, when it's not needed that they remain all the time inside the hospital. The house has videogames, books, movies, comics, everything you can think of to entertain the mind.
Whichever games I have and I don't mind parting ways with, either because I didn't like it or maybe because I enjoyed it but have no real hopes of playing it again, I simply give away to them. So... MS is saying, with the next gen they ain't gonna get ANY games from anyone at all if they're used... Hmmmm assholes.

It also confuses me that the Escapist only "update" their news stories, rather than actually correcting them when they're wrong. Probably for page views.

I only plan to buy one of the next generation consoles. WiiU is out already because I don't feel like buying an Ipad that doesn't function as a tablet and needs to be leashed to my living room. So, the battle is down to Xbox and Sony. I was hoping for a grueling decision amongst two equally good choices... but with announcements like this, Microsoft is making that decision easier and easier.

I'm not averse to some form of used game system, but would it not make sense to simply have a 'pass' feature much like EA have done, wherein any used game requires a fee of £5-10? Every 'system' Microsoft have brought up sounds like a pain in the ass for the consumer, for the retailer and for themselves. It's such a convoluted, messy, pointless system that could be dealt with in a simple, effective way. But I guess Microsoft wants as much cash as humanly possible, consequences and user friendliness be damned.

I'm not even that personally bothered by a used game prevention. I mostly use Steam for all my games, exclusives aside, but that comes with the benefits of a reduced price (£30 over £40) and frequent sales. But the Xbone will never, ever chop £10 off the price of games nor will there be frequent sales. The PS4 I'm interested in as it's a hugely powerful game focused platform with a great line up of Sony exclusives, which I've greatly enjoyed this gen. Everything the Xbone does either I can do on my cable box or I can do on my PC. I'm not going to spend £300 minimum for a device that brings nothing but inconvenience and disadvantages.

JokerboyJordan:
It also confuses me that the Escapist only "update" their news stories, rather than actually correcting them when they're wrong. Probably for page views.

I prefer the update format actually. If they just changed it (say, if there was a mistake) it would make certain forum posts irrelevant because they may be discussing the outdated information.

Gylukios:

Reyalsfeihc:
snip

snip

Thanks, I like to actually read the articles myself as everyone puts a spin on things, whether it's intentional or not. See, that's where it's confusing. MCV didn't quote their pricing information from GameDeals but from their own independent source, although unnamed, where they stated that it was indeed a flexible price that would cap out at 35 EURO or $45.

If this is also true, then that means I won't have any problems with this system. Figuring out a way to trade and sell used license keys has always been nigh impossible, and I think this is a good starting point to work from.

Also, personal gripe, but I sent in the information for this update, and it's kind of aggravating that the article author isn't hashing anything out like I did in my post. While it's nice to throw up the quote and source, he doesn't discuss what it changes at all, he simply posts "clarification".

10 percent? I have feeling that Gamestop and the like will be offering the Xbone around 10 percent of their shelf space in return.

el_kabong:

JokerboyJordan:
It also confuses me that the Escapist only "update" their news stories, rather than actually correcting them when they're wrong. Probably for page views.

I prefer the update format actually. If they just changed it (say, if there was a mistake) it would make certain forum posts irrelevant because they may be discussing the outdated information.

I agree. Also, it forces them to take ownership for possible mistakes and makes them far more accountable for what they write. I do wish he clarified in the update a bit better on this article though.

Reyalsfeihc:
I don't really understand why people are freaking out about the mechanics of used game sales, except for perhaps the system check with Azure servers to validate whether you still own the game or not (which the timeframe during which this would occur still hasn't been verified yet).

First off, a maximum used game price of $45 is definitely not terrible, and of course Microsoft is going to take a cut for processing and hosting the Azure service and serial keys. This is an obvious result of the system that they put in place. While it's true that the rumored 10% minimum for retailers involved would indeed suck, I think we're forgetting something that I find quite amazing about the new system.

The publisher gets a cut of used game sales.

While it's true larger publisher's like EA really don't need to be making more money than they already are off of micro-transactions and DLC, smaller publishers could very well thrive under the new system which, hopefully, would mean for money for the studios that develop our favorite games as well.

Well stated. And I too am a little amazed that the publishers cut is getting so little play. Considering that such a move could bring more publishers to support the platform and make games for it, and we all know its the library of games that keeps a system afloat. If it has a great library of games, there will be plenty of people who are able to pay to play them.

No retailer in their right mind is going to go along with this crap. It's basically what they live on at this point. Not that that should be more important than consumer rights and the slow, unannounced progression of games from products into services that you don't own, but at least retailers might do something about it.

Anyway, not like I was going to buy one in the first place, but my sympathies to those who do.

For comparison's sake, 90% of retail price in Australia is about $108 at the moment for new current gen games. Or $99 if you're being generous. Retailers are already finding it hard enough to compete with eBay over here, and I'll drop an extra ten dollars to support a retailer if they're willing to come to the table, but I'm not ever buying a game for a hundred dollars. At all.

Not even getting into the whole plethora of reasons why publishers shouldn't be restricting used games in the first place, partially for their own benefit.

StayCalmAndHateXbox:
LoL why do people care if gamestop gets bent over on this deal? Its not like they havent been ripping people off for years themselves. Who buys used that much anyway?

I was in the process of typing out a longer post, but missclicked on the keyboard and it's lost forever, so I'll keep things short and sweet. First, it's always hilarious to see someone take a complex economic issue and boil it down to "lulz, who cares about this one small factor of it?" Let's look at some facts here:

1) Gamestop is the single biggest dedicated games retailer I know of and used games are the biggest, if not only reason, they turn a profit at all. If all companies did this, losing used game sales could conceivably cause some stores to close, meaning less competition and fewer options for consumers. This is bad.

2) Gamestop, and probably a lot of other stores, are unlikely to sign up for this. If you're going to cut off the most lucrative aspect of their business, they don't need you, especially when your competitors aren't hitting them where it hurts. They are going to give you far less support, if they support you at all as a result. At the very least, be prepared to see them stop taking trades on your games. At worst, they may stop carrying your system all together.

3) Used sales drive new sales. Being able to trade in games allows a lot more people to buy more games, and more variety of games at release than they otherwise would. Publishers don't admit to this because it doesn't fit their "woe is us" narrative they try to sell to customers so they can seem like poor little victims, but most of their sales happen inside of the first month of release at the highest price their game will ever be at. Losing sales in that critical period is not good for them.

4) Be prepared to see customer support dry up if stores don't accept trades. "Wait, you mean I can't trade in this game I just bought a month ago, but I could if I had a PS4? I guess I'm selling my Xbone then."

5) Fewer used sales reduces incentive for prices to fall. Most publishers already refuse to lower the prices of their games for months after launch. Six months down the road, you'll rarely see games drop below $60, and often it's a $10 or so discount at best. The only time this doesn't hold true tends to be when a game was a dismal commercial failure. And this is when we're already months past the point where they've made most of the sales they will ever make. Giving Microsoft control over both new sales and used sales gives them way too much control over price, far less competition, and this is bad for the consumer.

Microsoft, if you want to commit full-on career suicide, there are far less painful ways to go about it.

Trying to fix something that IS NOT A PROBLEM.

Oh I can't wait for release day for this thing. Not so I can buy it, you understand, but so I can watch as MS's baby slowly dies with only the hardcore CoD and Madden fans crying over the crib.

OK, that metaphor went somewhere horrible, but you get what I mean.

How... how did they think this was a good idea? I mean, you'd think that this would be something done by EA but...

I just... have great difficulty forming thoughts right now...

How can a company with their own Internet Browser not know that they have just become the hot new favourite for the worst company in America?

I just...

*Closes door*

RJ 17:

StayCalmAndHateXbox:

RJ 17:
At that point, why not buy it used for a lower price?

Oh, I dunno, supporting the developers instead of the vultures at gamestop?

I'll do more to support the developers when they do more to encourage said support. And no, I'm not interested in debating this with you.

lol like what? make a game you want to play?

I just ordered an Nvidia 680 too shore myself up as a PC gamer for the upcoming jump in graphical fidelity thanks too the new consoles, I was -going- too spend that money on an X1 but all of this B.S has shown me the light, and that light is the Desktop Tower.

StayCalmAndHateXbox:

Reyalsfeihc:
snip

Well stated. And I too am a little amazed that the publishers cut is getting so little play. Considering that such a move could bring more publishers to support the platform and make games for it, and we all know its the library of games that keeps a system afloat. If it has a great library of games, there will be plenty of people who are able to pay to play them.

The publisher's cut is and should get little play because this system is an action by Microsoft. And they're not doing it out of the goodness of their own hearts either, Microsoft is making sure they're getting paid too. Publishers have been annoyed with things consoles force on them like licensing fees, patching approval, and even content approval for a while now, and I'm sure they're less than thrilled at the idea of Microsoft "big brothering" a used game solution on them too.

You know I just finished reading probably one of the most terribly written articles on PA report by Ben Kuchera literally saying that microsoft having so much power would be a great thing. And the only response is a picture of the Reagan administration with the caption "We told them it would trickle down" as they all laugh.

Yeah I'm not going to take PA report seriously with their opinion pieces.

Gylukios:

StayCalmAndHateXbox:

Reyalsfeihc:
snip

Well stated. And I too am a little amazed that the publishers cut is getting so little play. Considering that such a move could bring more publishers to support the platform and make games for it, and we all know its the library of games that keeps a system afloat. If it has a great library of games, there will be plenty of people who are able to pay to play them.

The publisher's cut is and should get little play because this system is an action by Microsoft. And they're not doing it out of the goodness of their own hearts either, Microsoft is making sure they're getting paid too. Publishers have been annoyed with things consoles force on them like licensing fees, patching approval, and even content approval for a while now, and I'm sure they're less than thrilled at the idea of Microsoft "big brothering" a used game solution on them too.

We'll just have to see, It will easy enough to tell where they stand when we see what kind of library the console gets.

Karloff:
Prices quoted by MCV for pre-owned hover around the £35 mark, inclusive of the retailer's cut, so of that figure the retailer sees no more than £3.50. The £35 is the activation fee, so presumably that would be set in advance by Microsoft independently of conditions in the retail market. Stinker or classic, the price tag may be the same.

Wait, so there is no price fluctuation? I can't even wait for a drop in price beyond $35 (Unless it's a sale I assume)? This is just silly now.

Milanezi:

So... MS is saying, with the next gen they ain't gonna get ANY games from anyone at all if they're used... Hmmmm assholes.

MS isn't saying that actually. A small online magazine with an alleged retailer source is saying that MS has control over the sale of used games by retailers.

It's an unconfirmed rumor at this point, and even if true it says little about the policies regarding lending, personal sales, or giving away games.

Marak Daga:
hello pc. im glad i have you for many reasons.

That really does not make much sense. The vast majority of PC games do not support used sales at all.

Was about to get angry, but MCV are clearly pulling numbers out of their arse. Their source says retailers would be forced to set the price to £35 on pre-owned games, it mentions nothing about what cuts of that go where.

If it were correct it would mean that, due to retailers only getting a 10% cut of the £35 resell price, they could only offer to buy it off you for £3.50 at most, meaning after one use of the game you bought for £40 it has lost over 90% of it's value to you. This would entirely kill any incentive for anyone to trade-in games... Good job there's no evidence of any of this being true.

I would be interested to see who gets this £35, as the retailers cut will effectively be the most you can get back for a used game... unless microsoft were to subsidise the retailers purchase of your game.

Worgen:

StayCalmAndHateXbox:
LoL why do people care if gamestop gets bent over on this deal? Its not like they havent been ripping people off for years themselves. Who buys used that much anyway?

Is there another way to easily sell games? Besides, its not like they are holding you down and forcing you to accept their offer.

Proabably not an easier way to sell games, but I wouldn't know, I dont sell many games. Because I don't buy many games that I dont plan to keep. And the voluntary nature of the rip off does not make it less of a rip off. lol.

So there is no reason to buy second hand xbone games. Therefore, for many, there is no reason to buy an xbone.

This is like when TSR got Random House to be their distributor. The business model they got was not beneficial to them in any way.

Eldritch Warlord:

Milanezi:

So... MS is saying, with the next gen they ain't gonna get ANY games from anyone at all if they're used... Hmmmm assholes.

MS isn't saying that actually. A small online magazine with an alleged retailer source is saying that MS has control over the sale of used games by retailers.

It's an unconfirmed rumor at this point, and even if true it says little about the policies regarding lending, personal sales, or giving away games.

Marak Daga:
hello pc. im glad i have you for many reasons.

That really does not make much sense. The vast majority of PC games do not support used sales at all.

Shh... don't you know, the sky is falling and gaming will be destroyed forever!!!

Its amusing to me to watch the PS fanboys, and the PC crowd jump at every tiny little rumor they can. And the most amusing bit is even if its ALL TRUE the system will sell, and that kills them more than anything.

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