"Gaymers" Speak Out On Homophobia

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Khell_Sennet:

Texian:

Khell_Sennet:

Again, if you don't let your orientation become public knowledge, and don't take a generic insult so personally. If they don't know you're gay, then it's just them being ignorant with a word they don't use properly. If you HAVE told them you're gay, well shit, guess that wasn't so smart was it.

So....shut up and get back in the closet then; is that it?

Never said that, so don't put words in my mouth.

Sexuality is a private matter, yes it defines who you are, but it is something that really should only be discussed with you significant other and sometimes very close family matters. Who you fuck, man woman or farm animal, is not a public conversation topic. It has nothing to do with remaining in the closet, and I find a lot of gays don't grasp that. Straight people don't feel this need to go out and announce to strangers that they are straight, so why is it such a big deal that gays feel they must?

Bottom line is that if you go out and publicly announce that you are different from the norm, not saying the difference is good or bad, but you are different and choose to publicly announce or display it, there will be a small group of people who call you out for it. Does anyone here need to know you're gay? Did they ASK if you are gay? If no, then why do you create the problem by announcing something we didn't want to know.

And just an observation on human behavior, but a large chunk of people who ARE homophobic or anti-gay are that way because of how in-your-face some gays are. Gays will never be truly accepted socially by 100% of the population, it's sad but true. But the less flamboyant and gay-prider you are about your preference, the more accepted you will be. I have no issues with gay couples, gay marriage, or gay adoption. I do have issues with gay pride parades, public groping/making out (gay or straight) and any subculture that shoves their ways in your face. So what may come off as homophobia or gay bashing is in fact my distaste for rude behavior, not their sexual preference.

This reply is so unbelievably ignorant I'm not sure even where to start and frankly was disturbing enough to get me to register an escapist account just to reply to it, so congrats for that. Truth be told from your reply I'm guessing you might have your heart in the right place but you just don't know what the issue of gay vs straight rights are so let me shove your head face first into this situation since you feel so strongly about it.

If you honestly and truly believe that straight people don't EVER discussed their sexuality in any way, shape, or form in any public environment you are provably wrong. It isn't just daily, or hourly, it happens several times a second that someone somewhere is taking about their heterosexual mates, sexual escapades, sexual conquests, marriage, children, wild nights, and such. Pictures, magazines, and media absolute flood this world with tidal waves of images of sexy straight couples, happy straight couples, elderly straight couples, etc, etc, etc. The degree to how in-your-face straights are with their lifestyles is so utterly barbaric and suffocating that it's a point where it CANNOT be escaped without living in a cave and collapsing it behind you. It is forced upon everyone since their birth with even the most innocent of comments and speakstyles such as "Your mother and I" which is code speak for "We had heterosexual sex to make you".

Then, after all that, to be straight and look at those who all this is being forced upon to tell them not talk about their loved ones who just happen to be the same gender, to tell them it's a private matter that nobody should know of, to tell them they aren't the 'norm' and we forcing that fact on them with in-your-face attitude and to not make a big deal out of it, to tell them they can't live their lives with the same openness as your own.... sorry, there are just no words to express how frustrating and horrifying it is to be under such restraints that you can't talk about who you are to anyone else for EVERY SECOND of EVERY MINUTE of EVERY DAY for the REST OF YOUR LIFE. It isn't just who you have sex with behind closed doors that is affected by sexuality. Sexuality affects every aspect of your life and most straight people don't seem to know how much their own sexuality is showing in their every day life. It doesn't have to be asked if you were gay or straight, just living your life portrays that information.

Do straight people discuss their sexuality a lot of the time? Yes
Is it lovely and lilting to listen to? Hell no.

It is forced upon everyone since their birth with even the most innocent of comments and speakstyles such as "Your mother and I" which is code speak for "We had heterosexual sex to make you".

If you seriously think that is a homophobic attitude, then I feel sorry for you.

Try watching any form of media sometime to see how many openly Gay presenters are running the show. Right back to Valerie Singleton.

I had a crush on a girl once. For every second of the time I was with her, I wanted to yell my love from the rooftops, but I couldn't. That restraint happens to everyone whose ever had unrequited love, being it straight/gay or whatever.

Well I guess there's no point arguing with you Texian (EDIT: This applies to Orekoya too), you are dead set on the opinion that being asked to keep sexual matters private is a form of persecution. I am no more thrilled hearing a guy detail his encounter with a chick than I am hearing a guy detail his drilling of another guy. You are using bad behavior by one party to justify equally bad behavior being alright for another.

And just for the record... Homosexuality is not the cultural definition of "normal". It is by its very definition abnormal...

To quote dictionary.com

ab·nor·mal
-adjective
1. not normal, average, typical, or usual; deviating from a standard: abnormal powers of concentration; an abnormal amount of snow; abnormal behavior.

Homosexuality is not normal, by society's viewpoint. Not saying it's not natural or that it is bad, but normal is heterosexuality. One will always assume everyone else to be normal until proven otherwise, thus one will always assume someone to be heterosexual until something conflicts with that assumption. So a guy making comments that affirm his heterosexuality is not advertising his gender preference, it is simply confirming it.

The_root_of_all_evil:
Do straight people discuss their sexuality a lot of the time? Yes
Is it lovely and lilting to listen to? Hell no.

It is forced upon everyone since their birth with even the most innocent of comments and speakstyles such as "Your mother and I" which is code speak for "We had heterosexual sex to make you".

If you seriously think that is a homophobic attitude, then I feel sorry for you.

Did I call it homophobic attitude? No.

Khell_Sennet:
Well I guess there's no point arguing with you Texian (EDIT: This applies to Orekoya too), you are dead set on the opinion that being asked to keep sexual matters private is a form of persecution. I am no more thrilled hearing a guy detail his encounter with a chick than I am hearing a guy detail his drilling of another guy. You are using bad behavior by one party to justify equally bad behavior being alright for another.

And just for the record... Homosexuality is not the cultural definition of "normal". It is by its very definition abnormal...

To quote dictionary.com

ab·nor·mal
-adjective
1. not normal, average, typical, or usual; deviating from a standard: abnormal powers of concentration; an abnormal amount of snow; abnormal behavior.

Homosexuality is not normal, by society's viewpoint. Not saying it's not natural or that it is bad, but normal is heterosexuality. One will always assume everyone else to be normal until proven otherwise, thus one will always assume someone to be heterosexual until something conflicts with that assumption. So a guy making comments that affirm his heterosexuality is not advertising his gender preference, it is simply confirming it.

Remember when I opened my reply by saying you had your heart in the right place? That still applies but you're forgetting my point.

asacatman:
I don't use a headset much, but this sounds really bad. I thought in Britain at least, being gay is just about socially completely acceptable, but I grew up in a middle class area and live in one so it could be problem in other places or tiny villages or something

That's because a large number of british are atheist, or religiously reasonable. They don't have turbo-christian nutjobs trying to impose the will of god upon the general public, and since americans are generally suburban cattle, they will listen to whatever their politicians say, especially if (in the case of homosexuality) it plays to their disgusting fear of the different.

"I want to shoot you right now. I want to hang you because you're gay. It's not nice but it's true."

This makes me feel sick, it really does. Homophobes are some of the biggest arseholes this world has to offer.

This reeks of political correctness.

Assuming Hell exists. Then why persecute them for something that may or may not be real?

NOOBSWTF:
everyone knows all fags are going straight (hee hee) to hell. so why not make fun of them?

Well, you're not going to last very long here. Reported.

Like Orekoya, I had to register to add my two cents.

The popular argument here seems to be that gay people should just keep their sexuality to themselves or no one could be to blame for using derogatory terms and hate speech against them.

Really? Really?

If we are to follow that logic and apply it to real life, then shouldn't all gay people be told to remain hidden 'in the closet' or else face hate crimes that they brought upon themselves?

Whether or not anyone here, in the videogame community, or in society in general, has an issue with gay people isn't really the point. The point is that using hateful speech is using hateful speech. It is not and will not be okay simply because of its prevalence among the ignorant gaming community.

I use to be friends with a couple people who, though they never made homosexual insults (on Halo, fittingly), used all sorts of racial insults which are also quite popular these days. Just about any variation on the 'n' word that you can think of. They never tried to pull the BS 'but I'm not really racist' argument, and I can just hear them saying, "Well, if you don't want to be called a n_____ then don't let people know you're black." It's ridiculous.

In all my years in the online gaming community I've heard so many countless homophobic insults thrown around...yet I can probably count on two hands the number of times that anyone actually shared that they were homosexual. I can't recall any time hearing someone share that they were gay without someone making a homophobic comment.

This isn't that hard, folks. Hate speech is hate speech. Grow up.

I WISH people were more tolerant, and would keep their hate to themselves or other likeminded fools. But the grim reality is that until you can start holding people accountable for what they say and do in an online game, they're are going to be foul-mouthed ignoramuses spewing their hate speech all over the place.

In the US, that bile is all protected speech under the First Amendment. The only speech that isn't protected is that which would incite a public disruption, e.g., riot, crime, etc. This of course, is a very remedial explanation of a number of Supreme Court Cases, and deciding what counts as inciting a public disruption is the domain of the SCOTUS, not me.

Per Chrinik it's absolutely in everyone's best interest to ignore the idiots. Calling yourself out as being gay isn't "asking" for more ridicule, but it there's no question that it makes it more likely. I can liken it, to a certain extent to the rape victim. Let me be clear, I do not believe that anyone is ever "asking" to be raped. No one "wants" that. Are there VOLUNTARY actions that make your chances of being raped go up? Yes. Are there things over which some people have no control that also increase those chances? Again, yes. But you're never "inviting" that, just like you're never "inviting" vapid and ignorant slurs because of your sexual orientation or race.

It's an unfortunate symptom of the "Internet Dickwad Theory," also mentioned above. Until server admins start banning people for hate speech, people have no motivation to behave themselves online. On a plus note, I've found plenty of CoD4:MW (PC) servers that have a no tolerance policy for even swearing.

There are places in the online gaming realm that don't tolerate that kind of crap - they're hard to find but they are out there.

itsonlycapital:
This isn't that hard, folks. Hate speech is hate speech. Grow up.

Have to agree with you there, and I agree that gay people shouldn't have to stay in the closet their whole lives, that's ridiculous. But that's also not what Khell and Root (Sorry, too lazy to type out full names) are talking about. What they are saying is that, just as with anything else, there is a time and a place for stating your sexual preference. A public online game is not one of them.

To put this in perspective, think of this. On openly gay man runs into the middle of a crowded shopping mall, climbs on top of the fountain and yells loud enough for everyone to hear "I'm Gay!". Sounds like a pretty stupid thing to do doesn't it? Well that's the same damn thing as doing it on a video game. The only difference being that on a video game he couldn't be physically hurt, whereas in a mall he could be shot, stabbed, beaten or otherwise injured/killed.

The_root_of_all_evil:
Do straight people discuss their sexuality a lot of the time? Yes
Is it lovely and lilting to listen to? Hell no.

Congrats on being equally disdainful of PDA. You're willfully ignoring the point that for however unlovely and unlilting it is to listen to, straight people don't have to worry about catching all hell for expressing it. If I were to yammer about my girlfriend online, I'd get either "Shut up" from those that don't care and "D00d, wat'z teh secks liek?" from the virgins and meatheads. Say anything about my boyfriend, though, however tame and however relevant or irrelevant to the chatter at hand, and it's unanimous "bash the fag".

Jobz:
[quote=itsonlycapital post=7.72320.756867] But that's also not what Khell and Root (Sorry, too lazy to type out full names) are talking about.

Name-ist! :)

But yeah, I hate Russel Brand and Madonna for similar reasons. If anyone references my Mum and Dad having sex to make me, I'd feel really quite ill.

Texian:
straight people don't have to worry about catching all hell for expressing it.

Riiiiight. Sure. Did you read my post about the time I was almost gay-bashed? It was only a few posts back.

Counterpoint : Has any of these horrible hetero's here tried to bash you?

There are morons out there who will bash you for being different. That's fact. It really doesn't matter HOW you are different, so bringing more attention to your difference will cause more problems with the morons.
So...snuggle up with your boyfriend all you want...but if you're going to a place where you KNOW there will be morons, keep it under your hat whilst around them. It's safer that way. Same goes for having long hair, quoting Python, reading books or anything else they might deem as 'abnormal'.

At least you have the option of hiding it, mentally/physically disadvantaged people don't even have that; and they get as much hate.

Jobz:

itsonlycapital:
This isn't that hard, folks. Hate speech is hate speech. Grow up.

Have to agree with you there, and I agree that gay people shouldn't have to stay in the closet their whole lives, that's ridiculous. But that's also not what Khell and Root (Sorry, too lazy to type out full names) are talking about. What they are saying is that, just as with anything else, there is a time and a place for stating your sexual preference. A public online game is not one of them.

Again, going to have to once again point to back to the "had your heart in the right place" that I had said in my last argument. This isn't an inquisition, we aren't accusing them of it or trying to prove they are. We are simply stating that there is a problem there. Also, have you played online games with others? People's personal lives spill out over them all the time, most get away with very little hassle or even notice; even for the nastiest things that might be said, and others get hammered on and abused endlessly for the most insignificant things that could cross the lines of communication. And that's what's happening in the real world too. That's the prejudice people are banging the drums over. That's the problem.

You know, for a long time I thought that I was homophobic. This somewhat upset me because I don't like to think of myself as a bigoted person.
Then, one day, I had an epiphany. I hate all people equally who make their sexuality my business for no reason at all, when I have neither asked, nor particularly want to hear about it.

It just so happens, in my experience, that homosexuals are more likely to do this than heterosexuals. Now here's the kicker: for all I know, there's tons of gay people out there who I really don't mind. Know why? Because neither of us has ever discussed sex with the other, nor will we ever, BECAUSE IT HAS NO PLACE IN POLITE CONVERSATION.

Now for those who insist on the self-branding at every available opportunity (This goes for vocal homosexuals and self-affirming heterosexual frat boy types alike), here's a bit of advice: I don't walk around all the time saying "You know what I like? Having sex with women. I enjoy that quite a bit." Because I'm comfortable with my sexuality. It'd be like walking around saying "I really like how green the grass is, and how blue the sky is today." and saying that every day. When you know something to be true deep down inside, you have no need to tell anyone, because it's stating the obvious. Learn to accept yourself, keep your private business private, and maybe you'll discover like me, that the problem all along hasn't been with you, it's been with you being unable to shut the hell up.

Back to the main topic.
Here's another secret: life isn't always a zero-sum game. It's not always going to be "us versus them." Some people out there are never going to like you, and that's fine, the great thing about being an adult is we don't all have to like each other. The unfortunate thing being: you still have to get by without bashing your enemies heads in with a rock. Weathering the slings and barbs of your enemies is all part of growing up. What, realistically, could the XBox Live service do about this situation? Record all voice chat in all games to review for hate speech? What about all of the protected speech they'd be monitoring as well? There's no viable solution. Pick a battle that isn't hopeless.

Ugh. I say when you're playing games, you're a gamer. Not a Male, Female, or Homosexual. If the Homophobes offend you, just don't listen to them.

Orekoya:
Again, going to have to once again point to back to the "had your heart in the right place" that I had said in my last argument. This isn't an inquisition, we aren't accusing them of it or trying to prove they are. We are simply stating that there is a problem there. Also, have you played online games with others? People's personal lives spill out over them all the time, most get away with very little hassle or even notice; even for the nastiest things that might be said, and others get hammered on and abused endlessly for the most insignificant things that could cross the lines of communication. And that's what's happening in the real world too. That's the prejudice people are banging the drums over. That's the problem.

Yes, I have played online games with others, I used to do so quite a lot when I had time which is now taken over by school and work. When I played my personal life never spilled out, the most anyone ever found out about me was where I was from which is fairly obvious because of my accent and maybe how old I was if someone asked.

Aside from that I see absolutely no reason to share deeply personal information with anyone you meet online in a place you know there are going to be ignorant people who will torment you for it. There is nothing wrong with being proud of who you are, but I don't talk about my heritage, sexual preference, race, political views, or religion in online games, chat rooms or forums with less-than-intelligent users (The Escapist being the only forum with intelligent users I have yet come across).

If it's something you know you will be tormented for, why not save yourself some trouble and just keep it to yourself?

EDIT: Wow, that tiny typo made an entire sentence have an ENTIRELY different meaning.

Jobz:
Yes, I have played online games with others, I used to do so quite a lot when I had time which is now taken over my school and work. When I played my personal life never spilled out

*cough*

Orekoya:

Jobz:
Yes, I have played online games with others, I used to do so quite a lot when I had time which is now taken over my school and work. When I played my personal life never spilled out

*cough*

Would you like a lozenge? Otherwise I'm not sure what you're getting at with this post. The "my" was meant to be "by" I have since fixed the error.

Jobz:

itsonlycapital:
This isn't that hard, folks. Hate speech is hate speech. Grow up.

Have to agree with you there, and I agree that gay people shouldn't have to stay in the closet their whole lives, that's ridiculous. But that's also not what Khell and Root (Sorry, too lazy to type out full names) are talking about. What they are saying is that, just as with anything else, there is a time and a place for stating your sexual preference. A public online game is not one of them.

To put this in perspective, think of this. On openly gay man runs into the middle of a crowded shopping mall, climbs on top of the fountain and yells loud enough for everyone to hear "I'm Gay!". Sounds like a pretty stupid thing to do doesn't it? Well that's the same damn thing as doing it on a video game. The only difference being that on a video game he couldn't be physically hurt, whereas in a mall he could be shot, stabbed, beaten or otherwise injured/killed.

Oh, I agree that there are more and less tactful ways to handle the situation, especially in situations where there's a higher potential for hateful reaction. Like I kinda said, though, I have never seen anyone just hop onto a game server and shout, "Hey everyone, I'm gay!" I could be wrong, but I really can't imagine that this happens often, if ever.

My main point, though, despite all the arguments people will make to blame the victim, is that being made aware of someone's sexuality is not an excuse to say the kinds of things constantly being tossed around online.

itsonlycapital:
Oh, I agree that there are more and less tactful ways to handle the situation, especially in situations where there's a higher potential for hateful reaction. Like I kinda said, though, I have never seen anyone just hop onto a game server and shout, "Hey everyone, I'm gay!" I could be wrong, but I really can't imagine that this happens often, if ever.

My main point, though, despite all the arguments people will make to blame the victim, is that being made aware of someone's sexuality is not an excuse to say the kinds of things constantly being tossed around online.

I have not, and will never, say that knowing someone is gay is an excuse to say the disgusting types of things I have heard said about them. All I am saying is that easiest way to avoid hearing these things is to simply not mention your sexual preference. It's not a necessary thing to mention during a video game.

EDIT: Removed quote wall.

Jobz:

Orekoya:
*cough*

Would you like a lozenge? Otherwise I'm not sure what you're getting at with this post. The "my" was meant to be "by" I have since fixed the error.

Hm, pointing out how even remotely small it may be some parts of your personal life will come across when you interact with anyone on the internet. Telling someone that "If it's something you know you will be tormented for, why not save yourself some trouble and just keep it to yourself?" doesn't work too well because it's the akin of telling someone to be unbiased and impersonal in everything they do at all times. Self-filtering 24/7 is in short an impossible task and a grave burden to force on someone when the burden is unnecessary and shouldn't have existed in the first place.

Jobz:
I have not, and will never, say that knowing someone is gay is an excuse to say the disgusting types of things I have heard said about them. All I am saying is that easiest way to avoid hearing these things is to simply not mention your sexual preference. It's not a necessary thing to mention during a video game.

EDIT: Removed quote wall.

Sorry, I should have said that I didn't mean to aim that towards you, personally. Just in general...

Orekoya:

Jobz:

Orekoya:
*cough*

Would you like a lozenge? Otherwise I'm not sure what you're getting at with this post. The "my" was meant to be "by" I have since fixed the error.

Hm, pointing out how even remotely small it may be some parts of your personal life will come across when you interact with anyone on the internet. Telling someone that "If it's something you know you will be tormented for, why not save yourself some trouble and just keep it to yourself?" doesn't work too well because it's the akin of telling someone to be unbiased and impersonal in everything they do at all times. Self-filtering 24/7 is in short an impossible task and a grave burden to force on someone when the burden is unnecessary and shouldn't have existed in the first place.

Would you kindly give me an example of time when part of your personal life comes across in a game without you explicitly choosing for it to do so? It's not about self-filtering, it's a simple matter of deciding what is and is not appropriate in certain situations. As easy as not cursing in a professional environment.

Jobz:
Would you kindly give me an example of time when part of your personal life comes across in a game without you explicitly choosing for it to do so? It's not about self-filtering, it's a simple matter of deciding what is and is not appropriate in certain situations. As easy as not cursing in a professional environment.

An example? Easy, during an online voice chat, I could have my same-sex partner come into the room and talk over me calling me honey-bear or some such during a raid-boss fight. How many more you want?

Orekoya:

Jobz:
Would you kindly give me an example of time when part of your personal life comes across in a game without you explicitly choosing for it to do so? It's not about self-filtering, it's a simple matter of deciding what is and is not appropriate in certain situations. As easy as not cursing in a professional environment.

An example? Easy, during an online voice chat, I could have my same-sex partner come into the room and talk over me calling me honey-bear or some such during a raid-boss fight. How many more you want?

Good point, I suppose that could happen, never personally seen it though and I'm pretty sure that's not a frequent occurrence for most people.

ok well first off im not a homophobe,i am not gay, but a very close freind of mine is and to be frank from day one after he outed himself id have to say every time we play a game i do slip in the word fag and other derogatory words for gays but its even funnier when he comes back with horrible names and cruel jokes for me and my heterosexuality and it goes back and forth till we both run out of insults

but long post short i call my freind fag and ect all the time is that a bad thing?*he really dosnt mind i asked him)

Dustereg:
ok well first off im not a homophobe,i am not gay, but a very close freind of mine is and to be frank from day one after he outed himself id have to say every time we play a game i do slip in the word fag and other derogatory words for gays but its even funnier when he comes back with horrible names and cruel jokes for me and my heterosexuality and it goes back and forth till we both run out of insults

but long post short i call my freind fag and ect all the time is that a bad thing?*he really dosnt mind i asked him)

If it's a joke among friends there really isn't anything wrong with it. My friends and I call each other horrible things all the time in the knowledge that we don't mean any of it. As long as no one is getting offended then it's not a problem.

So homosexual CS players have their feelings hurt when they get called a fag?

Can we focus on getting girls to play games first? THEN we can start with the minorities.

I kid, I kid.

I thought this was gonna be a topic about the cider... sorry.

i know a gay guy who calls people faggots on xbl voice chat.

what

now

im comfortable around any sexuality. Hell I have lesbian and gay friends and Im a guy.

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