LittleBigPlanet Delayed Over Religious Controversy

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Baby Tea:
You know I totally forgot about that. Beautiful piece of music, though. Anyways, I wouldn't call that a double standard, since this is referencing the Quran and 'Baba Yetu' is referencing the Bible. Two totally different religions (And books). Christians didn't mind Baba Yetu, Mulsims obviously mind this.

What makes it a double standard is that Christian groups often *do* express outrage over the (mis)use of Christian material in film, games, or entertainment, but this outrage does not provoke fear, apologies, cancellations, and/or world wide delays of products. And one can't claim economic basis for the action, because for most Western products there are far more Christian consumers than Muslim consumers.

So when companies have such visceral reactions to the outrage of one religioun, yet ignore the outrage of another religion, without economic basis, it seems like the very definition of a double standard.

Wait, there are "Arabic Hardcore Gaming Forums"?

Archon:

Baby Tea:
You know I totally forgot about that. Beautiful piece of music, though. Anyways, I wouldn't call that a double standard, since this is referencing the Quran and 'Baba Yetu' is referencing the Bible. Two totally different religions (And books). Christians didn't mind Baba Yetu, Mulsims obviously mind this.

What makes it a double standard is that Christian groups often *do* express outrage over the (mis)use of Christian material in film, games, or entertainment, but this outrage does not provoke fear, apologies, cancellations, and/or world wide delays of products. And one can't claim economic basis for the action, because for most Western products there are far more Christian consumers than Muslim consumers.

So when companies have such visceral reactions to the outrage of one religioun, yet ignore the outrage of another religion, without economic basis, it seems like the very definition of a double standard.

Guy on page 1 reminded me of the Manchester Cathedral fiasco. As I recall Sony apologised, but they didn't change it. Why not do the same? Apologise for any offenses caused, but simply say that they're not changing it.

Archon:

What makes it a double standard is that Christian groups often *do* express outrage over the (mis)use of Christian material in film, games, or entertainment, but this outrage does not provoke fear, apologies, cancellations, and/or world wide delays of products.

That outrage also doesn't often provoke death fatwahs from the outraged either.

Archon:

Baby Tea:
You know I totally forgot about that. Beautiful piece of music, though. Anyways, I wouldn't call that a double standard, since this is referencing the Quran and 'Baba Yetu' is referencing the Bible. Two totally different religions (And books). Christians didn't mind Baba Yetu, Mulsims obviously mind this.

What makes it a double standard is that Christian groups often *do* express outrage over the (mis)use of Christian material in film, games, or entertainment, but this outrage does not provoke fear, apologies, cancellations, and/or world wide delays of products. And one can't claim economic basis for the action, because for most Western products there are far more Christian consumers than Muslim consumers.

So when companies have such visceral reactions to the outrage of one religion, yet ignore the outrage of another religion, without economic basis, it seems like the very definition of a double standard.

I stand corrected. I guess I was looking at the specific example of the use of 'Baba Yetu'.

Amnestic:

Archon:

Baby Tea:
You know I totally forgot about that. Beautiful piece of music, though. Anyways, I wouldn't call that a double standard, since this is referencing the Quran and 'Baba Yetu' is referencing the Bible. Two totally different religions (And books). Christians didn't mind Baba Yetu, Mulsims obviously mind this.

What makes it a double standard is that Christian groups often *do* express outrage over the (mis)use of Christian material in film, games, or entertainment, but this outrage does not provoke fear, apologies, cancellations, and/or world wide delays of products. And one can't claim economic basis for the action, because for most Western products there are far more Christian consumers than Muslim consumers.

So when companies have such visceral reactions to the outrage of one religioun, yet ignore the outrage of another religion, without economic basis, it seems like the very definition of a double standard.

Guy on page 1 reminded me of the Manchester Cathedral fiasco. As I recall Sony apologised, but they didn't change it. Why not do the same? Apologise for any offenses caused, but simply say that they're not changing it.

Well Resistance had already been out for some time, by the time people started complaining. It's not exactly the same situation.

shadow skill:

Amnestic:

Archon:

Baby Tea:
You know I totally forgot about that. Beautiful piece of music, though. Anyways, I wouldn't call that a double standard, since this is referencing the Quran and 'Baba Yetu' is referencing the Bible. Two totally different religions (And books). Christians didn't mind Baba Yetu, Mulsims obviously mind this.

What makes it a double standard is that Christian groups often *do* express outrage over the (mis)use of Christian material in film, games, or entertainment, but this outrage does not provoke fear, apologies, cancellations, and/or world wide delays of products. And one can't claim economic basis for the action, because for most Western products there are far more Christian consumers than Muslim consumers.

So when companies have such visceral reactions to the outrage of one religioun, yet ignore the outrage of another religion, without economic basis, it seems like the very definition of a double standard.

Guy on page 1 reminded me of the Manchester Cathedral fiasco. As I recall Sony apologised, but they didn't change it. Why not do the same? Apologise for any offenses caused, but simply say that they're not changing it.

Well Resistance had already been out for some time, by the time people started complaining. It's not exactly the same situation.

Why not? The console internet connections means any patch could be applied and instealled. They could have, with a little bit of work, changed the level design. Instead they didn't. I suggest that they do the same as they did back then, apologise but get on with selling the game.

yeah, okay, it sucks the game was delayed. a week. 1 week people. i am far from overly sensitive, and not a religious person by any means. but what the fuck? if it is considered offensive to a group of people who strongly follow a religion, what exactly is the big deal in waiting one more week? i'm sure it doesnt make sense to a lot of you, but if you really think about it, using such words in the type of media it was used in, i honestly can see why someone would be offended. not to mention, maybe there's something we dont know about their practices and beliefs that consider using it in anything other than formal practice of the religion to be sacraligious? (i know i butchered that spelling, w/e) The bottom line is, any time something pops up out there that deeply offends your own personal beliefs, there is usually quite the overdramatic following, and people just cannot seem to shut the hell up. Yet here we are, seeing the exact same thing happen to another group of people, yet they are approaching the situation like rational adults, taking a polite and professional approach. And the best part about it? It's ONLY BEING DELAYED A WEEK. So, QQ more if that's what you're really here to do, but in all honesty, this could be about 10 times worse. Show some dignity and respect for their beliefs, and be glad you aren't being forced to wait another month.

Malygris:

runtheplacered:

Malygris:
Anyone who hasn't heard the song and question and would like to do so can find it in full at the MySpace page of the artist, Toumani Diabate.

http://www.myspace.com/toumanidiabate

Which song is it?

Duh, sorry, it's Tapha Niang. It was actually released in 2006 and licensed for use in the game, and interestingly, the artist is apparently a "devout Muslim."

Great song, I'm digging it. Thanks for the link and the info

Imitation Saccharin :

Archon:

What makes it a double standard is that Christian groups often *do* express outrage over the (mis)use of Christian material in film, games, or entertainment, but this outrage does not provoke fear, apologies, cancellations, and/or world wide delays of products.

That outrage also doesn't often provoke death fatwahs from the outraged either.

Sadly this is true. When you're average Christian is offended by media the worst thats going to happen is a letter to the daily mail on the lines of "ban this sick filth" which in turn generates lots of sales for said filth.
When it comes to islam some people take it a bit too far. A cleric wants to make a name for himself and issues a fatwa, a true believer wants to be a good muslim and before your know it there's embassies on fire. I have muslim friends who would look on this whole thing as being a bit silly but Sony seem to be thinking about those that take things more seriously. Plus sony have to think about sales. Not just games but sony products in total.

[edit]
For those who feel strongly about this censorship I suggest you do what i've just done and buy Toumani Diabates album with this track on it.
It's a nice tune and i'll be glad to play it whilst playing LBP whenever it comes out. At least this way the he'll still get some royalties.
The poor guys got to be feeling a bit pissed off right now...

ElArabDeMagnifico:

UPDATED UPDATE!

Update: LittleBigPlanet developer Media Molecule has revealed via its official site that a day-one patch was just completed and would have removed the offensive material.

However, publisher Sony decided that the "right thing to do for quality and support of people with no on-line was to replace existing disks." The company has yet to issue a new release date for the anticipated PlayStation 3 platforming game.

FFFFFFFUUCK!

Way to get my hopes up then smash them again. Oh well, I guess Fable 2 will have to do for now.

Mountain out of a mole hill. Be tolerant...but tell people where to shove it when they go to far.

Does this mean that those original copies of LBP from street date breaking are going to end up being worth a lot of money?

More importantly, I don't think Sony/Media Molecule should have to patch it at all, but that's their decision. I don't have a problem with downloading a day one patch. If someone is offended and cannot download the patch because of lack of internet, then why can't they just send out replacement copies for those wish to exchange it for the edited on-disc version? Why do all of us have to wait?

This is a terrorist attack on video games. Unbelievable, the people who are complaining probably wont even play the game, they just want to muckrake.

Have any actual Islamic leaders complained?
Is all this based on one persons forum post?

BleachedBlind:
Again, more religious assholes step in and ruin my day. I don't care what religion they represent, they just pissed me off by putting their religious beliefs as something more important than anything else.

A lot of the time, religion contains important values which are both helpful and applicable to modern life. You should study religion more closely, see what you find out.

ElArabDeMagnifico:

They shouldn't have done this though, ya know why?

My bet is anti-islamic levels from day one!

im already designing whining islamics and scared sony heads as (extremely weak) enemies

[EDIT:
UPDATED UPDATE!

Update: LittleBigPlanet developer Media Molecule has revealed via its official site that a day-one patch was just completed and would have removed the offensive material.

However, publisher Sony decided that the "right thing to do for quality and support of people with no on-line was to replace existing disks." The company has yet to issue a new release date for the anticipated PlayStation 3 platforming game. ]

Why can't Sony just let us decide. Put a sticker on the box that says if you do not have an internet connection and do not want to hear Muslim references within the music in your game please ask for a rain check and you will be notified of a revised addition on such and such a date. I respect that the have their own religion but just like they would not want me forcing my beliefs on them I don't appreciate having someone else's beliefs affect me. I may have really enjoyed that song.

uppitycracker:
It's ONLY BEING DELAYED A WEEK. So, QQ more if that's what you're really here to do, but in all honesty, this could be about 10 times worse. Show some dignity and respect for their beliefs, and be glad you aren't being forced to wait another month.

it is being delayed 3 WEEKS and people are annoyed because this is VERY nitpicky also annoying is that there is a patch ready but a 3 WEEK delay is OBVIOUSLY easier than telling easily offended non-internet owning muslims to wait for the next shipment of games

It's a 4 day delay people! They have every right to be offended, just as I have the right to be offended when others try to shove their religions down my throat. It's not a religion issue it's a respect issue. Calm down a 4 day delay is not a big deal.

great. one minute before me my arguement is posted by somebody else. smart guy though

Pyronox:

axia777:
Man I hate religion. As in ALL religion. All a bunch of asshats. THEY ARE ALL MYTHS!!!!!

http://www.lionsgate.com/religulous/

RELIGULOUS FTW!!!!

QTF

atheist = annoying dickheads who waste time forcing their delifs on everyone else
We've offended christians and jews since the dawn of time... lets not make exceptions please.

Religion=Bad

axia777:
Man I hate religion. As in ALL religion. All a bunch of asshats. THEY ARE ALL MYTHS!!!!!

http://www.lionsgate.com/religulous/

RELIGULOUS FTW!!!!

Yes, the Athiest movie made by the Agnostic asshole who, while usually incorrect, can at least yell loud enough to make himself seem right.

curlycrouton:

BleachedBlind:
Again, more religious assholes step in and ruin my day. I don't care what religion they represent, they just pissed me off by putting their religious beliefs as something more important than anything else.

A lot of the time, religion contains important values which are both helpful and applicable to modern life. You should study religion more closely, see what you find out.

While you may have a point in regards to religion in general, it's got bugger all to do with the issue at hand which is: Censoring a song (a good one by the sounds of things) simply to alleviate a few outspoken religious types.

Let me ask you this: Is a butcher not allowed to display his meat that some religions may call offensive? Of course he is, the religious people may simply not eat it. What would you say to someone who complained about The Dark Knight because they chose to believe it was offensive to people suffering from mental instability? It'd tell them not to see it and that it wasn't intended that way, that's their reading of it.

Why should gaming be censored when meat isn't? Why should gaming be censored when films aren't?

The song wasn't intended as offensive. If the song was "All muslims are fucking retards, I piss on the Koran/Qur'an/however you spell the name of that bloody book, Mohammed was a dick." then they might have a point. It wasn't called that, it didn't say that. They're inferring their own twisted sense of being offended and oppressed because they want attention.

My friend calls me a dick and tells me that he slept with my mother on a number of occasions. Am I offended? No, because we're doing it in jest and he doesn't mean it. If I were to get offended by that I'd be pushing my own ideas of what he meant onto what he said, rather than what he meant which was something entirely different. That's not right, that's putting words in someone's mouth and last time I checked that's something which isn't grounds for censorship.

Note: I'm not complaining just because it's religion, if it had been any sort of activist complaining, I'd be throwing out the same (roughly similar, different examples perhaps) points. I couldn't care less if it was a Muslim, Christian, PETA or a Black Rights group. What matters to me is that because some people are taking something not intended as offensive as offensive, thousands of people are being inconvenienced and having their experience changed to satisfy a very small vocal group of people.

*sigh* that was probably a rant. I don't even own a PS3! :D

Amnestic:

curlycrouton:

BleachedBlind:
Again, more religious assholes step in and ruin my day. I don't care what religion they represent, they just pissed me off by putting their religious beliefs as something more important than anything else.

A lot of the time, religion contains important values which are both helpful and applicable to modern life. You should study religion more closely, see what you find out.

While you may have a point in regards to religion in general, it's got bugger all to do with the issue at hand which is: Censoring a song (a good one by the sounds of things) simply to alleviate a few outspoken religious types.

Let me ask you this: Is a butcher not allowed to display his meat that some religions may call offensive? Of course he is, the religious people may simply not eat it. What would you say to someone who complained about The Dark Knight because they chose to believe it was offensive to people suffering from mental instability? It'd tell them not to see it and that it wasn't intended that way, that's their reading of it.

Why should gaming be censored when meat isn't? Why should gaming be censored when films aren't?

The song wasn't intended as offensive. If the song was "All muslims are fucking retards, I piss on the Koran/Qur'an/however you spell the name of that bloody book, Mohammed was a dick." then they might have a point. It wasn't called that, it didn't say that. They're inferring their own twisted sense of being offended and oppressed because they want attention.

My friend calls me a dick and tells me that he slept with my mother on a number of occasions. Am I offended? No, because we're doing it in jest and he doesn't mean it. If I were to get offended by that I'd be pushing my own ideas of what he meant onto what he said, rather than what he meant which was something entirely different. That's not right, that's putting words in someone's mouth and last time I checked that's something which isn't grounds for censorship.

Note: I'm not complaining just because it's religion, if it had been any sort of activist complaining, I'd be throwing out the same (roughly similar, different examples perhaps) points. I couldn't care less if it was a Muslim, Christian, PETA or a Black Rights group. What matters to me is that because some people are taking something not intended as offensive as offensive, thousands of people are being inconvenienced and having their experience changed to satisfy a very small vocal group of people.

*sigh* that was probably a rant. I don't even own a PS3! :D

I wasn't referring to the issue chiefly, but to life in general. The point would probably need to be explored in more depth to make sense properly.

Tyrant55:

ElArabDeMagnifico:

UPDATED UPDATE!

Update: LittleBigPlanet developer Media Molecule has revealed via its official site that a day-one patch was just completed and would have removed the offensive material.

However, publisher Sony decided that the "right thing to do for quality and support of people with no on-line was to replace existing disks." The company has yet to issue a new release date for the anticipated PlayStation 3 platforming game.

FFFFFFFUUCK!

Way to get my hopes up then smash them again. Oh well, I guess Fable 2 will have to do for now.

If I had to go through it, then you do too!

I've got Far Cry 2 to suffice.

What the fuck? This is easily the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Amnestic:

shadow skill:

Amnestic:

Archon:

Baby Tea:
You know I totally forgot about that. Beautiful piece of music, though. Anyways, I wouldn't call that a double standard, since this is referencing the Quran and 'Baba Yetu' is referencing the Bible. Two totally different religions (And books). Christians didn't mind Baba Yetu, Mulsims obviously mind this.

What makes it a double standard is that Christian groups often *do* express outrage over the (mis)use of Christian material in film, games, or entertainment, but this outrage does not provoke fear, apologies, cancellations, and/or world wide delays of products. And one can't claim economic basis for the action, because for most Western products there are far more Christian consumers than Muslim consumers.

So when companies have such visceral reactions to the outrage of one religioun, yet ignore the outrage of another religion, without economic basis, it seems like the very definition of a double standard.

Guy on page 1 reminded me of the Manchester Cathedral fiasco. As I recall Sony apologised, but they didn't change it. Why not do the same? Apologise for any offenses caused, but simply say that they're not changing it.

Well Resistance had already been out for some time, by the time people started complaining. It's not exactly the same situation.

Why not? The console internet connections means any patch could be applied and instealled. They could have, with a little bit of work, changed the level design. Instead they didn't. I suggest that they do the same as they did back then, apologise but get on with selling the game.

Because taking out an entire level in a game that has already been out for a few months at least is the same as changing an audio track before the game has actually come out.

shadow skill:

Amnestic:

shadow skill:

Amnestic:

Archon:

Baby Tea:
You know I totally forgot about that. Beautiful piece of music, though. Anyways, I wouldn't call that a double standard, since this is referencing the Quran and 'Baba Yetu' is referencing the Bible. Two totally different religions (And books). Christians didn't mind Baba Yetu, Mulsims obviously mind this.

What makes it a double standard is that Christian groups often *do* express outrage over the (mis)use of Christian material in film, games, or entertainment, but this outrage does not provoke fear, apologies, cancellations, and/or world wide delays of products. And one can't claim economic basis for the action, because for most Western products there are far more Christian consumers than Muslim consumers.

So when companies have such visceral reactions to the outrage of one religioun, yet ignore the outrage of another religion, without economic basis, it seems like the very definition of a double standard.

Guy on page 1 reminded me of the Manchester Cathedral fiasco. As I recall Sony apologised, but they didn't change it. Why not do the same? Apologise for any offenses caused, but simply say that they're not changing it.

Well Resistance had already been out for some time, by the time people started complaining. It's not exactly the same situation.

Why not? The console internet connections means any patch could be applied and instealled. They could have, with a little bit of work, changed the level design. Instead they didn't. I suggest that they do the same as they did back then, apologise but get on with selling the game.

Because taking out an entire level in a game that has already been out for a few months at least is the same as changing an audio track before the game has actually come out.

Changing does not equal taking out. And yes, I thought this was a matter of 'morals', not of size or technical difficulty.

I'm betting you were all wondering where I was in this thread, me being the LittleBigPlanet Guru of this site.

After reading this, I can safely say;

I.
AM.
PISSED.
THE.
FUCK.
OFF.

No ammount of excamation points or 1's or emotes can expres my anger. As such, you are safe from any sort of spamming from me, and you are free to imagine me crying in my bed (I am actually tearing a bit, admitedly)

Now, here's my take on this;

I do not hate Muslims, I have a few Muslim friends and they're nice people. However, I don't care if LBP was delayed for even a day, I would still be extremely pissed off and not just because I would have to wait an extra day.
It's because some stupid minority got offended by a stupid song and as a result of that Sony is delaying it. That is why I'm pissed, because to prevent any controversy Sony had to delay LBP. It was their choice, I understand, but because of these damn overzealeous religeous types they delayed LBP. It's a smart move on their behalf admitedly, however it's why they're doing it that is pissing me off.

The obvious choice for the Muslims is, just don't play the game, however that is never a solution. Another choice would be to do the online patch, however as stated not everyone has online so that is a sortof-smart move on Sony.

I am just raging furious right now.

So full of rage.

Rage!

RAAAGGGGEEEE!!

Ironically though, this shows how far spread LBPs appeal is :D

Obnoxious Headline once more - READ IT!

IT'S COMING OCTOBER 27TH NOW!

Sigh. Political Correctness gone bat-sh*t bonkers.

Did Sony pull Resistance: Fall of man when the Catholic Church got all pissed about using a Cathedral for one of the games levels and demanded it be pulled? No, Sony basically told them to suck it, then kinda-sorta apologized later, but made no changes to the game.

I understand trying to be understanding, multicultural, and accommodating of political and religious beliefs, but it's getting insane, and it seems that Europeans/Americans are so much more worried about offending Muslims then Christians.

When was the last time you saw Muhammad on an episode of South Park or Family Guy? Never you say?! How many times have you seen Jesus Christ on those too shows? Bunches. I'm a Christian, and I personally don't care about stuff like this. If it's wrong to use Jesus are God in these ways, the creators will find out one day, but in the mean time everyone just needs to back off and remember we have freedom of speech rights in the US, Japan and the EU... for now.

Until then, I think I'll put that song on my Ipod...just to stir the pudding...

EDIT: Just got it off ITunes!

Well here in europe it's a 3 week delay.

uppitycracker:
yeah, okay, it sucks the game was delayed. a week. 1 week people. i am far from overly sensitive, and not a religious person by any means. but what the fuck? if it is considered offensive to a group of people who strongly follow a religion, what exactly is the big deal in waiting one more week? i'm sure it doesnt make sense to a lot of you, but if you really think about it, using such words in the type of media it was used in, i honestly can see why someone would be offended. not to mention, maybe there's something we dont know about their practices and beliefs that consider using it in anything other than formal practice of the religion to be sacraligious? (i know i butchered that spelling, w/e) The bottom line is, any time something pops up out there that deeply offends your own personal beliefs, there is usually quite the overdramatic following, and people just cannot seem to shut the hell up. Yet here we are, seeing the exact same thing happen to another group of people, yet they are approaching the situation like rational adults, taking a polite and professional approach. And the best part about it? It's ONLY BEING DELAYED A WEEK. So, QQ more if that's what you're really here to do, but in all honesty, this could be about 10 times worse. Show some dignity and respect for their beliefs, and be glad you aren't being forced to wait another month.

There is a difference between "respect" and "bending over backwards". When Muslim's complain about something, whether it be a music soundtrack, school curriculum, offensive cartoons, types of food, documenteries that bring up legitimate points about Islam (the guy was murdered for it by the way), it gets fixed right away, with an apology. When Christian leaders complain (Manchester Cathedral in Resisitance, Jesus used on cartoons/movies, ect) they are pretty much told to bugger off, or maybe get a half hearted apology.

If they are going to bend over backward for one religion, they need to do it for all. However, the best way is to remember FREEDOM OF SPEECH and not to do it for any of them. If someone is offended, don't by the product, watch the show, ect.

I'm glad there are people in the world that are devote and try to live a good and moral life, I like to think I do so in may own way, but to force others to live and believe as you is WRONG, no matter the religion!

Brockyman:
Sigh. Political Correctness gone bat-sh*t bonkers.

Did Sony pull Resistance: Fall of man when the Catholic Church got all pissed about using a Cathedral for one of the games levels and demanded it be pulled? No, Sony basically told them to suck it, then kinda-sorta apologized later, but made no changes to the game.

I understand trying to be understanding, multicultural, and accommodating of political and religious beliefs, but it's getting insane, and it seems that Europeans/Americans are so much more worried about offending Muslims then Christians.

When was the last time you saw Muhammad on an episode of South Park or Family Guy? Never you say?! How many times have you seen Jesus Christ on those too shows? Bunches. I'm a Christian, and I personally don't care about stuff like this. If it's wrong to use Jesus are God in these ways, the creators will find out one day, but in the mean time everyone just needs to back off and remember we have freedom of speech rights in the US, Japan and the EU... for now.

Until then, I think I'll put that song on my Ipod...just to stir the pudding...

Reistance had already been released by the time anyone started complaning. LBP is NOT OUT YET FOR THE LOVE OF GOD it's not the same sort of situation. I never knew it was worse to fix a problem what ever it is before consumers at large et a hold of a product, than to wait till after people get a hold of products to fix them. Calm down people.

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