LittleBigPlanet Delayed Over Religious Controversy

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Imitation Saccharin :

Archon:

What makes it a double standard is that Christian groups often *do* express outrage over the (mis)use of Christian material in film, games, or entertainment, but this outrage does not provoke fear, apologies, cancellations, and/or world wide delays of products.

That outrage also doesn't often provoke death fatwahs from the outraged either.

Actually, considering there was a wave of people attempting to bomb abortion clinics, in the US during the 80's, I'd say there's some pretty scary outrage on the parts of Christians too.

However, I still see the situation as problematic. Like a child who thinks that by screaming loudly and pitching a big enough fit, she or he can get their way--and when they do, proceed to continue with that behavior--so is this action in regards to Islam.

Respect toward you and your beliefs; yes. Capitulation to them; no. You do not own god.

While we're here, lets learn about this little thing called "RESPECT" - just because religion is the source of this doesn't give you the right to come out and say that athiesm is the way to go and that religion is the worst thing ever.

shadow skill:

Brockyman:
Sigh. Political Correctness gone bat-sh*t bonkers.

Did Sony pull Resistance: Fall of man when the Catholic Church got all pissed about using a Cathedral for one of the games levels and demanded it be pulled? No, Sony basically told them to suck it, then kinda-sorta apologized later, but made no changes to the game.

I understand trying to be understanding, multicultural, and accommodating of political and religious beliefs, but it's getting insane, and it seems that Europeans/Americans are so much more worried about offending Muslims then Christians.

When was the last time you saw Muhammad on an episode of South Park or Family Guy? Never you say?! How many times have you seen Jesus Christ on those too shows? Bunches. I'm a Christian, and I personally don't care about stuff like this. If it's wrong to use Jesus are God in these ways, the creators will find out one day, but in the mean time everyone just needs to back off and remember we have freedom of speech rights in the US, Japan and the EU... for now.

Until then, I think I'll put that song on my Ipod...just to stir the pudding...

Reistance had already been released by the time anyone started complaning. LBP is NOT OUT YET FOR THE LOVE OF GOD it's not the same sort of situation. I never knew it was worse to fix a problem what ever it is before consumers at large et a hold of a product, than to wait till after people get a hold of products to fix them. Calm down people.

Fix a problem? I'm in the camp of "there is no problem"! I'm not trying to piss people off, but I'm an advocate of free speech. If your personally offended by the actions of the other, speak out or get over it, but don't "Fix" or "Censor" anything. The Cathedral level should never be changed, nor should the soundtrack. If either party doesn't like it...tough.

Also, while you are right that this was before the release and Resistance was alrealy on shelves, I was making the still relevant point that Western society will bend over backward not to offend the Muslim community, but won't do the same for Christians or Jews.

We have right to say what we want, but there is no FREEDOM TO NOT BE OFFENDED. Sometimes yo just have to put on your big boy pants and deal.

ElArabDeMagnifico:
While we're here, lets learn about this little thing called "RESPECT" - just because religion is the source of this doesn't give you the right to come out and say that athiesm is the way to go and that religion is the worst thing ever.

Well said! I hope my posts aren't taken out of context as well. I respect people who believe in something. I'm personally a Christian, but not as devoute as others. However, being devoute doesn't mean interfering in the creative rights of others.

I agree with his call...this thread isn't against religion itself.

wasn't Xenogears absolutely filled with anti-religious phrases, symbols etc.? I don't remember that game ever coming under fire.

Wait, how did a song with the lyrics:

'Every soul shall have the taste of death'

and

'All that is on earth will perish'.

get into a game like _Little Big Planet_ in the first place? What's next--something from the Book of Revelations in _Animal Crossing_?

Who is the moron at Sony who heard some song in another language and decided 'hey that's awesome--I'm going to use that without knowing what the words mean!'

Syphonz:
wasn't Xenogears absolutely filled with anti-religious phrases, symbols etc.? I don't remember that game ever coming under fire.

Xenogears isn't mainstream and well known enough to warrant attention from activist groups/objections. It's easier to get publicity for your cause if you point the finger at a really well known game.

Cheeze_Pavilion:
Wait, how did a song with the lyrics:

'Every soul shall have the taste of death'

and

'All that is on earth will perish'.

get into a game like _Little Big Planet_ in the first place? What's next--something from the Book of Revelations in _Animal Crossing_?

Who is the moron at Sony who heard some song in another language and decided 'hey that's awesome--I'm going to use that without knowing what the words mean!'

I think because it's in arabic. Assuming the produces are not arabic speakers they thought it sounded nice ( and it does btw. Buy the album)
They thought, this sounds nice. Guys won awards etc. It's not like someone is going to reveal on a forum one week before street date that the words by this muslim singer are actually an insult to islam....

Smokescreen:

Imitation Saccharin :

Archon:

What makes it a double standard is that Christian groups often *do* express outrage over the (mis)use of Christian material in film, games, or entertainment, but this outrage does not provoke fear, apologies, cancellations, and/or world wide delays of products.

That outrage also doesn't often provoke death fatwahs from the outraged either.

Actually, considering there was a wave of people attempting to bomb abortion clinics, in the US during the 80's, I'd say there's some pretty scary outrage on the parts of Christians too.

Exactly. And how often is abortion represented in media? Ever notice that very, very few characters get abortions in movies and on tv? Childbirth? Oh, there's plenty of that. Unintended pregnancy? Sure. Adoption? All over the place. A character walking into an abortion clinic? Not so much...

Heck, next time there's an ad for a pregnancy test, check to see if the woman is wearing a wedding ring.

Tempest in a teapot, again. This has more of an air of "wasn't paying attention" than the whole "let's accurately model a church without permission", but still, what the HELL does Sony's internal testing department consider proofing? I'm Christian but didn't care especially about the church fiasco, just insofar as I find it as shaky as I would reproducing anything else private or semi-private without permission, say Meteor Crater in Arizona.

Delaying the game is idiotic, missing the song's lyrics in the first place is as well. Which is worse, it's hard to say. Sony needs to either develop a spine or SERIOUSLY improve their internal checks, or this is going to continue, and not just with religious matters.

oAmadeuso:

Cheeze_Pavilion:
Wait, how did a song with the lyrics:

'Every soul shall have the taste of death'

and

'All that is on earth will perish'.

get into a game like _Little Big Planet_ in the first place? What's next--something from the Book of Revelations in _Animal Crossing_?

Who is the moron at Sony who heard some song in another language and decided 'hey that's awesome--I'm going to use that without knowing what the words mean!'

I think because it's it arabic. Assuming the produces are not arabic speakers they thought it sounded nice ( and it does btw. Buy the album)
They thought, this sounds nice. Guys won awards etc. It's not like someone is going to reveal on a forum one week before street date that the words by this muslim singer are actually an insult to islam....

Yeah, but how do you put music in a game with lyrics that you don't understand? I mean, what if this guy was the Muslim James Hetfield, and the lyrics turned out to be "And I've fucked a sheep, I've fucked a goat, I rammed my cock right down its throat So what"?

I mean, LBP is supposed to be this adorable platformer--what are the lyrics 'Every soul shall have the taste of death' and 'All that is on earth will perish' doing in there in the first place?

Forget the insult to Islam issue--how did lyrics that sound more like lines from _God of War_ get in this game, did they take that Kratos Sackboy thing a little too far, or something?

Smokescreen:

Actually, considering there was a wave of people attempting to bomb abortion clinics, in the US during the 80's, I'd say there's some pretty scary outrage on the parts of Christians too.

That makes little sense.
They bombed abortion clinics not because they were offended religiously, but because they believed they were murdering babies.

Update!!!

I wasn't so sure about LBP's release date, but I just got a call from Gamestop (yeah yeah, deal with it, it was for the Kratos Sackboy!) saying that they got a message from Sony that LBP is delayed until October 27th now.

So, now I'm 100% sure that I'm pissed.

F
U
C
K

Here's what I think happened: Sony didn't initially decide to pull the discs because of Islam, they decided to pull the discs because of European hate speech law, which is *very* different from American law:

http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSL1584799120080415?sp=true

I think SCEE was afraid of getting sued in courts of European countries. That was the economic issue. Then when Sony decided they had to pull all the discs in the European region, they just decided to pull them in every region.

Brockyman:
Sigh. Political Correctness gone bat-sh*t bonkers.

Did Sony pull Resistance: Fall of man when the Catholic Church got all pissed about using a Cathedral for one of the games levels and demanded it be pulled? No, Sony basically told them to suck it, then kinda-sorta apologized later, but made no changes to the game.

I understand trying to be understanding, multicultural, and accommodating of political and religious beliefs, but it's getting insane, and it seems that Europeans/Americans are so much more worried about offending Muslims then Christians.

When was the last time you saw Muhammad on an episode of South Park or Family Guy? Never you say?! How many times have you seen Jesus Christ on those too shows? Bunches. I'm a Christian, and I personally don't care about stuff like this. If it's wrong to use Jesus are God in these ways, the creators will find out one day, but in the mean time everyone just needs to back off and remember we have freedom of speech rights in the US, Japan and the EU... for now.

Until then, I think I'll put that song on my Ipod...just to stir the pudding...

EDIT: Just got it off ITunes!

The difference is that the controversy with the Catholic Church had not a thing to do with the church being a holy place - it was objecting because the Church was depicted without their say so, just like they'd be in trouble if they held a level in the Microsoft head offices in Redmond without getting their approval. This, however, is offensive to Muslims as Muslims.

Jump, people thought it would be Nov. 9th - don't beat yourself up.

Cheeze_Pavilion:

oAmadeuso:

Cheeze_Pavilion:
Wait, how did a song with the lyrics:

'Every soul shall have the taste of death'

and

'All that is on earth will perish'.

get into a game like _Little Big Planet_ in the first place? What's next--something from the Book of Revelations in _Animal Crossing_?

Who is the moron at Sony who heard some song in another language and decided 'hey that's awesome--I'm going to use that without knowing what the words mean!'

I think because it's it arabic. Assuming the produces are not arabic speakers they thought it sounded nice ( and it does btw. Buy the album)
They thought, this sounds nice. Guys won awards etc. It's not like someone is going to reveal on a forum one week before street date that the words by this muslim singer are actually an insult to islam....

Yeah, but how do you put music in a game with lyrics that you don't understand? I mean, what if this guy was the Muslim James Hetfield, and the lyrics turned out to be "And I've fucked a sheep, I've fucked a goat, I rammed my cock right down its throat So what"?

I mean, LBP is supposed to be this adorable platformer--what are the lyrics 'Every soul shall have the taste of death' and 'All that is on earth will perish' doing in there in the first place?

Forget the insult to Islam issue--how did lyrics that sound more like lines from _God of War_ get in this game, did they take that Kratos Sackboy thing a little too far, or something?

Well you have a point with that I suppose. I guess they just looked at the guys rep and didnt think to check.

Cheeze_Pavilion:

oAmadeuso:

Cheeze_Pavilion:
Wait, how did a song with the lyrics:

'Every soul shall have the taste of death'

and

'All that is on earth will perish'.

get into a game like _Little Big Planet_ in the first place? What's next--something from the Book of Revelations in _Animal Crossing_?

Who is the moron at Sony who heard some song in another language and decided 'hey that's awesome--I'm going to use that without knowing what the words mean!'

I think because it's it arabic. Assuming the produces are not arabic speakers they thought it sounded nice ( and it does btw. Buy the album)
They thought, this sounds nice. Guys won awards etc. It's not like someone is going to reveal on a forum one week before street date that the words by this muslim singer are actually an insult to islam....

Yeah, but how do you put music in a game with lyrics that you don't understand? I mean, what if this guy was the Muslim James Hetfield, and the lyrics turned out to be "And I've fucked a sheep, I've fucked a goat, I rammed my cock right down its throat So what"?

I mean, LBP is supposed to be this adorable platformer--what are the lyrics 'Every soul shall have the taste of death' and 'All that is on earth will perish' doing in there in the first place?

Forget the insult to Islam issue--how did lyrics that sound more like lines from _God of War_ get in this game, did they take that Kratos Sackboy thing a little too far, or something?

Have you heard the song? Its soothing, vaguely African sounding music.

While I don't consider the lyrics a problem it is for some and Sony has decided to address it. At the end of the day Sony doesn't want bad press or lawsuits and who can blame them after the Manhester Cathedral mess.

ElArabDeMagnifico:
Jump, people thought it would be Nov. 9th - don't beat yourself up.

As i've said before, i don't care if LBP was delayed for a single day, it would still piss me off.

I've said it in my first post here, I'm not saying it again!

However, it does show how broad appeal LBP has now. Sortof a blessing in disguise, only it's a sucky blessing.

Indigo_Dingo:

Forget the insult to Islam issue--how did lyrics that sound more like lines from _God of War_ get in this game, did they take that Kratos Sackboy thing a little too far, or something?

Have you heard the song? Its soothing, vaguely African sounding music.

The problem isn't the music, though, it's the lyrics.

Death In June sounds like Dead Can Dance, if you don't listen to the lyrics, but..."Rose Clouds of Holocaust" isn't exactly as innocent as "American Dreaming" even though they've both got a jangly guitar, as I remember.

Crunchy English:
This isn't about religion, it's about censorship and politics. What the hell man? My mom's a pacifist and is often deeply, deeply offended when I cut a dude's head off in a video game or shoot a guy in the head. Offensive materials should not hold a game from being released. Change the rating maybe, but not delay a release.

Sorry, but whatever your faith is, the fact that you are offended should be a real shame... and completely irrelevant

I have to disagree. Offensive materials should not affect a game's release or rating in any way. The most that should happen is that they are stated to have X Y and Z as offensive. If someone doesn't like something in a game they can simply NOT BUY IT. Not try and get the game changed because they think themselves that important. While I am religious, people are so arrogant to think they their religious beliefs should change something for EVERYONE else.

Come on people, admit it those lyrics do sound fucked up for a game like LBP when you actually know what they mean. :)

shadow skill:
Come on people, admit it those lyrics do sound fucked up for a game like LBP when you actually know what they mean. :)

Ah, but all the more proff LBP isn't just a "Cute, cuddly, gay platformer!". It's like how when you look at Kirby you wouldn't think he shoots out fireballs and swallows people up, but he does (sorry ElArab, had to quote that out of context).

Have you ever seen some of the spooky levels in LBP? They're quite eeiree and, erm, spooky actually.

oAmadeuso:

Well you have a point with that I suppose. I guess they just looked at the guys rep and didnt think to check.

It's like when the U.S. Navy was all ready to use that Village People song "In the Navy" in their next recruiting drive, then they found out that the name 'The Village People' doesn't mean they came from a small town...

Well this is a stupid thing for those people to do

(both parties)

So when say a music recording artist writes a song with let's say for the sake of an example, a passage from the Bible, which is not uncommon, are Catholics then within right to ask the artist in question to not release their album?

Of course the answer may well be yes, if material is found "offensive" by a religous group then that is taken very seriously.

The problem lies in a different area of the subject though.

That is: "Why take it so seriously?"

Yes, it's your religion, yes in some cases it's what you swear your life by and how you live day-by-day.

But really, Is the song wronging the original meaning of the passage in question?
Have they portrayed the meaning as something else?
Are they openly trying to say "HAHA WE STOLE SOMETHING FROM THE QURAN THAT MAKES US CLEVER!"
Did they turn the entire contents of the Quran into a song?

As far as i'm aware, no.

So, where is the issue?

[EDIT] also while thinking about it, how this could turn into a huge lawsuit is confusing me seeing as the people who were offended don't OWN the Quran it's not like it's copyrighted material or anything.
[Beware, i'm almost certain that statement contains religious ignorance]
[like to point out that i am not religious and i'm not disputing anyone beliefs or trying to insult anyone with my opinions]

in order to properly compensate everyone who could possibly be offended by this song you'd have to pay a settlement to every Muslim who can potentially by a copy of the game.

I'm not overly sure how ridiculous the law can get now days but i'm almost sure no court would touch that one...

I am pissed I have to wait an extra week... looks like Farcry 2 just made a sale though.

Look at the big picture though. It's a smart move IMO since this will be the Sony flagship game, and unlike other games that only sell for the 1st month this will sell for the next 5 years easily. Ofcourse it sucks to wait an extra week.... but it must be done.

Oh well... I wait 3 years for games I care about just to watch developement teams ruin the franchise (SOCOM4).... didn't even know about this game before the Beta.... I'll live one more week (crosses fingures).

BleachedBlind:
Again, more religious assholes step in and ruin my day. I don't care what religion they represent, they just pissed me off by putting their religious beliefs as something more important than anything else.

Yup =\.

Its getting harder to express freedom in gaming, mainly because games have a worldwide appeal.

Ocarina of Time had Islamic symbols on blocks and the music in the Fire Temple was Arabic, all that was removed in future releases of the game.
The same thing happened to Zack and Wiki too I believe (either way it was a Wii game not made by Nintendo).

Its a shame developers do not have the freedom to do as they please, but we live in a society where we fear offending or being offended.

...
......
I have nothing to say, except...

LOLWHUT!?

Reckon I could complain about any game which shows an all-powerful creator as being offensive to my atheist beliefs and get it changed?

You know, because I'm deeply offended and stuff by the implications the game is making about the real world.

At least there nice about it. If it was ay western religion (names withheld) there would be a crusade against it. A simple fuck up what has been delt with calmly and rationaly.

I find it strange that a game that has a lyric or two that was quoted from the holy book of a religion can insight a great deal of religious controversy while a game that actually allows you to be a god (and a truly malevolent and black-hearted one at that) can attract none.

In all seriousness, people need to chill the f**k out and calm down. Stop taking things so seriously. The Muslim community needs to try not to get so deeply offended when someone outside their culture makes the slightest reference to any aspect of their religion. On the opposite side of the coin, Sony needs to calm down and stop assuming that if they offend the Muslims that one of their head offices is going to get bombed.

If people just stop and take a breather once and a while, we'll all be better off.

I'd just like to say, even if it offends you, shouldn't you be glad your religeon, which is said to be one of peace and love, is being expressed in such a universal medium as music and in a positive way that does not involve turbans and bombs?

PS: I am a Christian, and I found Dogma to be a HILARIOUS movie. Look it up, Religulous isn't anything new- and Dogma has Jay and Silent Bob!

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