New Deus Ex Won't Be "Dumbed Down" For Consoles

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New Deus Ex Won't Be "Dumbed Down" For Consoles

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Deus Ex 3 lead designer Jean-Francois Dugas says "console-isation" isn't about dumbing things down, and that he intends to retain the series' complexity across all platforms on which it's released.

In an interview with Edge, Dugas said the team at developer Eidos Montreal won't "dumb down" the franchise in order to accommodate console platforms, although he admitted that at this stage, "We don't know exactly which platforms we're going to be out on."

"The PC, we'll be there for sure," he continued. "But for us, console-isation isn't about dumbing down features. If we're to go console we will want to keep the complexity alive. We want the menu interface and controller to feel simple without risking any of their potential."

Of course, a great many Deus Ex fans would hasten to point out that Deus Ex: Invisible War was already significantly dumbed down when compared to the original, but it's not clear which iteration of the series Dugas is speaking of. Something else he said, however, is quite clear, and will no doubt send a shudder down the spines of gamers looking forward to the second sequel.

"There weren't enough exciting, memorable moments. [The original Deus Ex] was aimed more towards a simulation rather than a game experience," he said, adding that it was "kind of slow." The original Deus Ex, of course, is one of the most universally-acclaimed videogames of all time, with a Metacritic score of 90, a MobyGames ranking of 91 and over a dozen "Game of the Year" awards to its credit.

I will leave you to discuss this amongst yourselves.

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When he says exciting im guessing he means it in the Micheal Bay sense of the word: Explosions; fancy CGI & other superficial eyecandy to distract from their lack of talent.

Yeah, I'm not exactly jumping up and down in anticipation either, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, at least whilst I still have the receipt. I wonder what storyline they intend to chrun out of the four possible endings of Invisible War (excuse my language).

Malygris:

"There weren't enough exciting, memorable moments. [The original Deus Ex] was aimed more towards a simulation rather than a game experience," he said, adding that it was "kind of slow." The original Deus Ex, of course, is one of the most universally-acclaimed videogames of all time, with a Metacritic score of 90, a MobyGames ranking of 91 and over a dozen "Game of the Year" awards to its credit.

I will leave you to discuss this amongst yourselves.

Clearly a misguided chump. Memorable moments don't necessarily mean a large explosion combined with someone shouting "look out". Moments like realising the reporter you had chatted to about the plague was actually a spy for (I can't remember the agencies name!) was brilliant, and unique.

I have Deus Ex (the original) for the PC and PS2 and the PS2 version is dumbed all the way down to retarded. I can't walk 10 feet without a load screen. Oh well I hope Deus Ex 3 is as good (or better) as the original. Plz Eidos, repair the mistake you made with Invisible War

DamienHell:
I have Deus Ex (the original) for the PC and PS2 and the PS2 version is dumbed all the way down to retarded. I can't walk 10 feet without a load screen. Oh well I hope Deus Ex 3 is as good (or better) as the original. Plz Eidos, repair the mistake you made with Invisible War

I concur! I recently bought Invisible War off of Amazon for 43p...I wasted my money.

Elurindel:

I concur! I recently bought Invisible War off of Amazon for 43p...I wasted my money.

Damn, you could have almost bought a can of coke with that money!

"There weren't enough exciting, memorable moments. [The original Deus Ex] was aimed more towards a simulation rather than a game experience," he said, adding that it was "kind of slow.

It's nice to meet a designer that goes for efficiency in inspiring hate. This is the first time I've heard of the guy and I already want to hit him with a bat!

On the plus side, I'm no longer afraid of it being dumbed down for consoles: now I'm just afraid of it being dumbed down for its lead designer.

Last thing: I love the barely concealed revulsion in the writing of the news post.

God is this going to be the next Fallout 3 type "controversy"? Let's make a website and call it No Cyborgs Allowed.

Don't get me wrong, I thought Deus Ex was an ok game, though I wouldn't recommend it to anyone to play in this day and age as it's just too dated. I think a modern-day remake/sequel or re-imagining would be great.

In all honesty, though, I got to the halfway point (of the original) and started getting bored, bored enough for my interest to wane and me to stop playing. Of course, I didn't realise at the time that I was playing the pinnacle of gaming, or maybe I'd have persevered a bit more through the dull bits.

Maybe, just maybe (GASP SHOCK HORROR) this guy actually has a point. I will reserve any judgement until the game is out, and wait to see what he's going to do with it, but it's refreshing for me to see someone echoing what my thoughts were of the game, and I am intrigued.

I think the point is that if you want something more EXCITING and MEMORABLE, like some kind of Half-Life 2: Episode Deus Ex, then maybe you should be playing something else. There are plenty of choices available to you. Deus Ex succeeded precisely because it wasn't some idiotic run-and-gunner, but rather a true FPS/RPG hybrid that told a real story, had great characters (albeit with some brutal voice acting) and went far, far beyond the conventional first-person experience we'd grown used to. Make no mistake, I love idiotic run-and-gunners, but denigrating DX because it didn't happen to fit well enough into that category is a huge mistake.

This isn't nostalgia talking, either. I got the itch to play it again earlier this year (a very rare thing for me, I don't often replay games), worked my way through it from start to finish, and it was bloody fantastic. Graphically dated, yes, and the combat was primitive compared to modern shooters - and so what? It was still one of the best games I've played since the first time I played it.

Dugas' statement is going to inspire a lot of fanboy rage, and as I'm something of a fanboy myself I think that's as it should be. But from a more objective point of view I find it concerning because it's indicative of a knee-jerk trend toward, as Cousin_IT put it, Michael Bayifying everything in sight. Not every game, not even a game like Deus Ex which was ostensibly an action title, needs that sort of treatment, and the apparent belief that it does betrays a shocking ignorance about what exactly made the game great in the first place.

I for one would be very surprised if they said something along the lines of "we intend to make as much of this as possible no matter what parts of the game we have to sacrifice" I mean comon, lets say they are going to dumb it down, they still wouldn't tell us! Also I doubt they can reach the success of the first game, partly because it is a prequel, and as such some things are set in stone, so you cant have say world changing decisions like the first game did.

While invisible war was indeed dumbed down it was still something original in comparison to most games. The thing I liked most about it was the fact that you aren't given 2 choices to go as Hitler or Pope John Paul the 2nd. You picked between factions and none of them were that bad in the end(well exception goes to the Omar who turned the place into a wasteland). But I guess this is coming from a fan so it doesn't count.

Malygris:
Deus Ex succeeded precisely because it wasn't some idiotic run-and-gunner, but rather a true FPS/RPG hybrid that told a real story, had great characters (albeit with some brutal voice acting) and went far, far beyond the conventional first-person experience we'd grown used to.

I can appreciate what you're saying because I like these kind of games as well. I think it's fair to say that a modern-day example of a game that fits the description you made in the quote above would be Mass Effect (apart from the third person view and the decent voice-acting). That is a game I played, loving every minute, even the quiet bits in between the big setpieces, until the credits rolled.

Now we can agree to disagree in our opinions on the original Deus Ex, you love it, I only liked it to a point and then got bored - whatever. All I'm saying is that if this guy, Jean-Francois Dugas, means that he is wanting to make it more like a modern-day Action/RPG hybrid, such as Mass Effect, I think that could be a very good thing. Jumping to the conclusion that he wants to "michael-bayise" it and nerd-raging all over the internet is a little premature at this stage.

Lets just wait and see until we get more details on what his exact vision is.

Guh, what? Not exciting and memorable? Really? um.

I could... probably tell you the whole plot, all through the plot twists, right now. I played as a sneaky, non-lethal-when-possible, chatty hacker/sniper. That's possibly the "slowest" way you could play. And I LOVED it.

Come on, the *spoiler*

mission where you could either leave LIKE THE NPC TOLD YOU TO, or stay behind and risk your life to save your brother? Not many games give you that choice! Not many games let you play however you like anymore either! That was-

Oh screw it. sigh. Gimme more details, then we'll talk.

Dear Lord, who put this guy in charge of the project?

Not enough exciting, memorable moments? I can remember every minute of Deus Ex, and every minute is exciting. If anyone wants me, I'll be in the angry dome.

Deus ex is the only game that makes me go fanboy retarded and this....
this is a cockslap in the face.

That's it folks, Deus Ex 3 is doomed. From what this "designer" says i can guess that the game will probably be dumbed down to some crappy linear story with fancy explosions giving you no choice over nothing, and if they give you choices it's either good or bad.
No middle ground.

I don't know this guy but seriously i want to kick him in the nuts.

mintsauce:
Dear Lord, who put this guy in charge of the project?

Not enough exciting, memorable moments? I can remember every minute of Deus Ex, and every minute is exciting. If anyone wants me, I'll be in the angry dome.

FUTURAMA REFERENCE!!!!

2 shiney stars for you sir!

I am going to slap the developer of this game round the face, for trying to recreate such a brilliant game.

This news comes as a bit of a double edged sword, its fucking amazing to hear a developer say they won't be dumbing a game down and the primary focus is on the PC version thus keeping the cross-development quality high.

But the last comment is strange one. Just have to wait and see i guess.

"But for us, console-isation isn't about dumbing down features. If we're to go console we will want to keep the complexity alive. We want the menu interface and controller to feel simple without risking any of their potential."

sigh.

Jesus christ guys, he's literally said he doesn't want to dumb it down, he wants to keep the complexity of the original game and make it more exciting. How is this a bad thing? Of course you can respond to that with "Well he is lying and he wants to dumb it down," in which case nothing anyone says will appease you.

There is nothing here to suggest JUST YET that he's going to fuck it up, unless there is more info out there I've not yet come across in which case please enlighten me so I can stand corrected. It's almost like you want him to ruin the franchise just so you can foam at the mouth about it. Otherwise, why so pessimistic?

When did the Escapist boards become NMA?

Its like Herman Melville saying his next book much more excising and energising without dumbing it down. God I hate that book, but it was still very good.

More explosions, huh?

..sigh

Why all the hating of Invisible War? It wasn't as good as the original Deus Ex, but I still enjoyed it very much. The most important part in Deus Ex is the story and IW still delivered a great one.

Thirtysomething:
There is nothing here to suggest JUST YET that he's going to fuck it up, unless there is more info out there I've not yet come across in which case please enlighten me so I can stand corrected.

But see, there is something to suggest just that.

"It was kind of slow. There weren't enough exciting, memorable moments." - Jean-Francois Dugas

This is a huge red flag. The guy is saying that one of the most exciting, memorable games in existence didn't have enough exciting, memorable moments. How can that be taken as anything but problematic?

Malygris:

Thirtysomething:
There is nothing here to suggest JUST YET that he's going to fuck it up, unless there is more info out there I've not yet come across in which case please enlighten me so I can stand corrected.

But see, there is something to suggest just that.

"It was kind of slow. There weren't enough exciting, memorable moments." - Jean-Francois Dugas

This is a huge red flag. The guy is saying that one of the most exciting, memorable games in existence didn't have enough exciting, memorable moments. How can that be taken as anything but problematic?

Exactly.

Malygris:

But see, there is something to suggest just that.

"It was kind of slow. There weren't enough exciting, memorable moments." - Jean-Francois Dugas

This is a huge red flag. The guy is saying that one of the most exciting, memorable games in existence didn't have enough exciting, memorable moments. How can that be taken as anything but problematic?

You can take that as problematic. Yet someone could equally say, if they were to play devil's advocate, that that is not the only interpretation of this comment. It is the extreme pessimist view, so let's interpret his comment positively, just as a thought experiment:

He might genuinely have an improved vision for DEx3 that will keep all of the aspects of the franchise people loved (branching storyline, multiple factional alignments, complex character stat and weapon skill development, optional alternative routes to complete missions in different ways or even avoid doing them all together), while adding in some of the innovations that have produced some of the excellent games we've seen come out in recent years. These could include (but are not limited to) good voice acting, better-paced narrative, seamless and huge crowded open worlds, sharp NPC AI whether working with or against you, some cool setpieces, and yes, great graphics and physics - and what is wrong with wanting to provide that on top of what is already great about the game?

Lets face it, the original was overall a good game, but did have some rather long dry spells, and like I said in a previous post I stopped playing about halfway through because nothing was keeping me interested. Clearly I am not the only one that thinks this. If he wants to tighten up the experience, which as you say already had exciting memorable moments, and, well, give it even more exciting memorable moments, then great.

Anyway, I'm just trying to provide a counterpoint since everyone seems alarmingly fast to jump on the worst interpretation of what is really a very vague and insubstantial comment. Yes he might get it all wrong, but then again he might not. It's too early to see the chickens yet and I don't see any point in being overly pessimistic OR optimistic when what little information we have right now can be interpreted either way.

I also read an article detailing their plans for the game...

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=198546

Eidos Montreal says it's more than aware of fan reaction to controversial second game, Invisible War, and promises mistakes, such as limiting ammo types to just one, won't be repeated.

This said, they are doing their utmost to please newcomers as well as existing fans. Perhaps controversially this time around combat won't be influenced by stats, but will rely purely on your personal marksmanship skills. Instead stats will influence "a vast array of fully upgradeable and customisable weapons", and you'll be able to tailor your arsenal to your play style with mag upgrades, scopes and other add-ons.

What's more, stealth will now rely on a cover system rather than shadows, and damage will be dealt with by a very Call of Duty-style auto-heal. There's probably going to be some debate over those two.

Augmentations have been bumped up and sound fantastic. 20 have been promised for the final game, ranging from 'bungee jump' tentacles that shoot from your back and anchor to a wall when you jump off a building, and the ability to punch through walls to grab enemies in neighbouring rooms.

Deus Ex 3 certainly sounds very, very promising - if a little controversial for die-hard PC fans. And just wait until you see the shots...

For more info and the first screenshots see the full ten-page preview in the 200th issue of PC Zone, out October 9 (and in subscribers' hands now). Happy 200th issue, by the way.

UPDATE: A slight clarification for those fearing that DX3 is straying from its roleplay roots - Eidos Montreal have confirmed, as is detailed in PC Zone issue 200, that you'll still garner experience points as you progress through the game. You'll then either choose to plug them into your self through your augmentations or your weaponry. Apologies for any confusion.

Tremble in fear, fans of the original.

Now I won't say Deus Ex was the Jesus Christ Superstar of games. It had some slow moments (especially the BEGINNING, -UGH-!), had some problems with it's RPG system, and the voice acting was silly. The story however was top notch- one of the first games in my memory to do conspiracy theories -well-. And it's greatest appeal was the cerebral, almost realistic approach to combat and situations- you had all sorts of options that were viable, and despite being a nanoaugmented super soldier you weren't a one man tank (unless you took the appropriate Augs anyway.)

As long as nobody attempts to make System Shock 3: Shodan's Revenge or anything like that... I'm fine.

Ever since Invisible War, Deus Ex has been dead to me... DEAD TO ME.

And as soon as Looking Glass Studios closed, that pretty much ended Thief for me, too.

Just keep your grubby mitts off of System Shock...

TsunamiWombat:
What's more, stealth will now rely on a cover system rather than shadows, and damage will be dealt with by a very Call of Duty-style auto-heal. There's probably going to be some debate over those two.

Oh, god... Halo health and a cover system? Blow that for a game of soldiers. What are they thinking?? It's not a freakin' action game. It's a first-person RPG tactical stealth shooter... NOT CALL OF DUTY.

I have a bad feeling about this.

Very bad.

Oh god no please no no NO, my absolute worst fears have now been confirmed.

Once Fallout 3 has been released, enjoyed by most, and then forgotten, this game will take its place, and the cycle of bitter irrational hatred for something no-one has ever seen or played will start all over again...

Honestly, after reading that article I was thinking "that doesn't sound bad at all if it's done right - games like Halo and COD4 are fun but yeah, they could use lots more depth" but I know this view won't be popular.

Thanks for that quote T

TsunamiWombat:
I also read an article detailing their plans for the game...

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=198546

Eidos Montreal says it's more than aware of fan reaction to controversial second game, Invisible War, and promises mistakes, such as limiting ammo types to just one, won't be repeated.

This said, they are doing their utmost to please newcomers as well as existing fans. Perhaps controversially this time around combat won't be influenced by stats, but will rely purely on your personal marksmanship skills. Instead stats will influence "a vast array of fully upgradeable and customisable weapons", and you'll be able to tailor your arsenal to your play style with mag upgrades, scopes and other add-ons.

What's more, stealth will now rely on a cover system rather than shadows, and damage will be dealt with by a very Call of Duty-style auto-heal. There's probably going to be some debate over those two.

Augmentations have been bumped up and sound fantastic. 20 have been promised for the final game, ranging from 'bungee jump' tentacles that shoot from your back and anchor to a wall when you jump off a building, and the ability to punch through walls to grab enemies in neighbouring rooms.

Deus Ex 3 certainly sounds very, very promising - if a little controversial for die-hard PC fans. And just wait until you see the shots...

For more info and the first screenshots see the full ten-page preview in the 200th issue of PC Zone, out October 9 (and in subscribers' hands now). Happy 200th issue, by the way.

UPDATE: A slight clarification for those fearing that DX3 is straying from its roleplay roots - Eidos Montreal have confirmed, as is detailed in PC Zone issue 200, that you'll still garner experience points as you progress through the game. You'll then either choose to plug them into your self through your augmentations or your weaponry. Apologies for any confusion.

Tremble in fear, fans of the original.

Now I won't say Deus Ex was the Jesus Christ Superstar of games. It had some slow moments (especially the BEGINNING, -UGH-!), had some problems with it's RPG system, and the voice acting was silly. The story however was top notch- one of the first games in my memory to do conspiracy theories -well-. And it's greatest appeal was the cerebral, almost realistic approach to combat and situations- you had all sorts of options that were viable, and despite being a nanoaugmented super soldier you weren't a one man tank (unless you took the appropriate Augs anyway.)

Thanks, now that's it. Goodbye deus ex you witty tactical shooter you and welcome Guns, muscle and death III you bastard of a game.

That killed all expectation for me.

Meh, Deus Ex was great, Deus Ex 2 was...well, good as a standalone, but compared to 1, poor.

And call me Mr. Cynical, but I suspect Deus Ex 3 won't match 1.

The blend of choice (but not as much as everyone likes to think there was - although its one of the few games where, if you killed dude X before you were meant to, it could normally still recover), Philosphy/Ideology, and a wide scale of varying locations really marked it out (I'd seriously had trouble remembering where the mad-good plot began, and I consider that good story telling when its had me gripped that long)...

Ok, no-one can -really- judge yet, but the warning signs are there, methinks.

IMO, the game -really- kicked off when you got to France,

Lets not be too quick to judge, if we forget the spot on the arse of gaming that IW was then a DX sequel= early xmas

Malygris:

he said, adding that it was "kind of slow."

That he would say that causes me dread; not that it isn't true, but Deus Ex was rare among FPS titles in that it was willing to slow down and actually tell a story instead of obscuring the whole thing in gore. If he thinks that's a bad thing, then it's going to have a serious negative impact on game quality in my opinion.

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