Adam Orth To Give Speech On Online Toxicity

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The funniest thing about this (this is me trying to be positive) is the rationalizing going on. "There's no way that Microsoft could have been serious about this plan. If they were, that would make us look really stupid for rejecting it. So obviously Microsoft's offical statement was a lie."

It's also just a coincidence that Valve is going "what a great idea, we should think about doingthat". And people are getting excited for it because it's Valve and not Microsoft.

Nimzabaat:
The funniest thing about this (this is me trying to be positive) is the rationalizing going on. "There's no way that Microsoft could have been serious about this plan. If they were, that would make us look really stupid for rejecting it. So obviously Microsoft's offical statement was a lie."

I'm not saying Microsoft's official statement was a lie. I'm saying they were deliberately vague on the subject in the first place. They never outright explained how it would work. They never told us what it would do. All they said was "You can put ten people into your 'family' and they'll see your shared games and be able to play them!"

That's vague, and potentially misleading.

It's also just a coincidence that Valve is going "what a great idea, we should think about doingthat". And people are getting excited for it because it's Valve and not Microsoft.

You realize different people can come up with similar systems separately, right? Unless you want to start positing the theory that the Kinect was ripped wholesale from the PS2 Eyetoy, since they do basically the same thing.

Also, different people are getting excited. Personally, I don't give a toss about either. I've got nobody I would care to 'share' games with on my Xbox account (I don't even have Xbox Live Gold), and I've got very few people on my Steam friends list and even fewer who actually have enough free time to actively take advantage of my games library.

kailus13:
Didn't he try to explain it all away as "joking"? Doesn't seem like he finds it so funny now.

Actually, it was one of his friends who said that Orth was Trolling him. I never bought it, especially since he refused to say he was joking himself.

OT: Adam Orth is going to not be hirable in this industry anytime soon...

Okay, let's just take a step back here. Maybe he's going to say that he's learnt from this. Maybe he'll talk about how damaging such comments can be, even if they are honest opinion, when connected to companies and not just an individual person.

But of course, if he's gonna bitch about the response he got...that's bullshit. If you're going to present your opinion in such a manner, you can expect to be responded to in a similiar fashion.

I think Mr Orth might be a professional troll. He's doing all the things one would do if one were hellbent on pissing off as many people as possible. :D

I look forward to hearing Orth's speech; so I can drink his tears and smugly tell him to deal with it.

Zachary Amaranth:

Only if you heavily edit her actions until they no longer actually represent what she's actually done.

Or, as the anti-Anita crowd seems to call it, "reasonable criticsm." So have at it, I guess.

Are you kidding me?
They both got heavily critisized for what they said, both went to do a speech about it and both ignored any and all reasonable opposing viewpoints.

That's doing a "Sarkeesian". Whining about toxicity, instead of facing what they said and gain a little insight.

You don't have to be anti-Sarkeesian to recognize failure to owning up.

an annoyed writer:
This is like giving a bully a job in doing a presentation on the effects of bullying, or a wolf the job of telling how eating sheep is bad.

Or making North Korea and Iran the leaders of the UN's international disarmament conference.

OT: This is amazing. Either he's going to give the most pathetic whinge-speech ever, or he's going to eat mountains of crow.

Orth, it's called monster.com ... deal with it

It sounds like he's going to bitch, moan, and whine some more. Who wants to see that?

Nimzabaat:
Hokay, that's enough.

You are calling all of us fools? Fine. Do it quietly inside your head where it can't be heard. Because at this moment, you're sounding a bit Orthy yourself, dissatisfied with the reality. Even if this was a plan of Microsoft's ever, you are focusing on ONE SMALL DETAIL in a sea of other hardships. This one little plan, if feasible, wouldn't save it from the other things gamers don't want. Are you really going to be satisfied on a lifeboat when there are other cruise ships to board? If such an idea were any good, it would still be viable in the final product, regardless of changes. So, what you're complaining about is that your ship was sunk, not that we're idiots.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to point and laugh at Orthy now.

image

"Deal with it, Orth! HAW-HAW!"

I'd say this thread is a perfect example of the kind of destructive commentary Adam Orth seems to want to talk about. A bunch of anonymous people sitting behind their keyboards, pointing and laughing, adding precisely zero value to any conversation.

UnnDunn:
I'd say this thread is a perfect example of the kind of destructive commentary Adam Orth seems to want to talk about. A bunch of anonymous people sitting behind their keyboards, pointing and laughing, adding precisely zero value to any conversation.

But having a damn good time while doing it.

He made a snarky comment about one of his companies policies in a public forum insulting the companies customers while he did it. People have been fired for exactly the same thing all over the world in all forms of business on all levels, and if he sees the public outcry over his actions and his subsequent dismissal as purely a fault of haters spewing their toxic opinions and himself the innocent victim well then he can just...

Didnt the context of his comments take place between him and someone he regularly bantered with, and then got picked up and broadcast everywhere, without context, due to the nature of public information on twitter?

I think him giving a speech on it would be worthwhile, seeing as he fell victim to saying something stupid to a friend, in a scenario where everyone could see it and run with it.

Kiya:
All we need is for a Valve spokesman to do a speech at the same conference on customer relations, customer service, how to listen, respond and interact with your potential customers online in ways that create a positive atmosphere and outcome.

Go on Valve - you know you want to... For science. ;-D

Captcha: last straw. No kidding.

I expect Valve to catch some flak for the way they're doing the next community update, actually.

So opinion and online communities having power is... bad?
More to the point, let's assume an echo-chamber like environment is bad. The entire of MS Redmond campus is setup like a goddamn echo chamber with no outside opinions allowed.

Maybe someone at GDC needs to do a seminar on a real issue in the industry, the corporate tactic of convincing gamers to buy your stuff by using backhanded insults and bullying tactics. The implied message from Orth, Spencer, Mattrick and the ilk is that if we don't like what the XB1 is trying to do it's our fault, that somehow we are the deficient ones. This approach, in my mind, is meant to silence dissenters by making them feel both invalid and part of a minority. "There is something wrong with your opinion, and it's just you who thinks this way."

This is the tactic of a bully; to belittle their victim and make them feel isolated and alone. And this is how MS attempted to convince gamers to buy their shit. That's what should be the topic of conversation.

Instead we have an ex-bully who is going to talk about the dangers of the bullied standing up for themselves and refusing to be abused further.

Fuck you, Adam Orth. How's that for toxic?

Smilomaniac:

Zachary Amaranth:

Only if you heavily edit her actions until they no longer actually represent what she's actually done.

Or, as the anti-Anita crowd seems to call it, "reasonable criticsm." So have at it, I guess.

Are you kidding me?
They both got heavily critisized for what they said, both went to do a speech about it and both ignored any and all reasonable opposing viewpoints.

That's doing a "Sarkeesian". Whining about toxicity, instead of facing what they said and gain a little insight.

You don't have to be anti-Sarkeesian to recognize failure to owning up.

I guess you're right if you ignore the whole "I hope you get raped bitch" stuff. Because if you conveniently ignore all the gendered harassment and abuse Sarkeesian faced, sure, it's similar.

I have yet to see anyone say that same kind of stuff about Orth.

Zeldias:

I guess you're right if you ignore the whole "I hope you get raped bitch" stuff. Because if you conveniently ignore all the gendered harassment and abuse Sarkeesian faced, sure, it's similar.

I have yet to see anyone say that same kind of stuff about Orth.

Of course I'm ignoring it, because it's worthless drivel written by idiots who have nothing better to do than lash out at others. Sarkeesian and Orth should've done the same damn thing instead of glorifying it by going out there and make speeches about it.

If anything, Sarkeesian got a massive boost out of it because medias not only ignored her work and the possible downsides to what she was saying, they boosted awareness so massively that every gamer who read news sites, now knows who she is.

I have yet to see Sarkeesian OR Orth actually debate the issue instead of patronizing everyone and combing over anyone who speaks against them. The irony is so thick it's draining the oxygen from everyones' brain.

Adam Orth really needs to learn to deal with it. It's all well and good when he's the one condescending to others, but when the entire internet calls him on his BS, somehow it's toxic and inappropriate? Ha, good one Orth!

The internet is certainly a very toxic place in many instances, but comments such as Orth's would have gotten him booed and jeered off any stage he took, anywhere in the world. People should simply get with the times and get internet? Perhaps they should move in order to get a working Xbox One, or build internet infrastructure with their bare hands? Orth is the worst sort of idiot, the kind that somehow managed to make his way into a position of semi-power and respectability. I only hope he'll meet more of that hated internet toxicity, because he certainly deserves it.

dochmbi:
I don't think theres that much overlap in the population that doesn't have a stable internet connection and the population that would be a potential customer for a Xbox One. Sure, it sucks you can't play your games when your connection is out, but that happens like one day in a year on broadband.

Unfortunately it's a lot more common than you think. as a broadband subscriber living in a large urban center, I have a spotty connection every other day, simply because I live a little too far north of the 49th parallel. And I'm no special case, I'm subscribed to one of the largest ISP's in the country, and I pay a fair premium for the "best" connection my lines will support. the Xbox 180 would have been just one more thing taxing my already abysmally weak internet connection, and that's the major thing which informed my decision on not getting the new Xbox, especially when Sony is offering a similar service, without the inconveniences.

As to the topic at hand, while the title of his talk -could- be misleading us, if it isn't, and he's just using the GDC as a forum to bitch about how the Evil Internet Fairies cost him his slick job at Microsoft, I really hope it blows up in his face, because this guy really doesn't seem to notice how far up his ass his head is crammed.

UnnDunn:
I'd say this thread is a perfect example of the kind of destructive commentary Adam Orth seems to want to talk about. A bunch of anonymous people sitting behind their keyboards, pointing and laughing, adding precisely zero value to any conversation.

Like he pretty much did when he made the initial comments.

UnnDunn:
I'd say this thread is a perfect example of the kind of destructive commentary Adam Orth seems to want to talk about. A bunch of anonymous people sitting behind their keyboards, pointing and laughing, adding precisely zero value to any conversation.

Yeah, they're only slightly above the level of his own comments.

You may complain about the intellectual level this conversation is being had on, but seriously, the guy starts the conversation by dismissing any other viewpoints and telling people to just deal with it? That's just setting the bar below sea level.

Orth's the problem here, not the reactions.

UnnDunn:
I'd say this thread is a perfect example of the kind of destructive commentary Adam Orth seems to want to talk about. A bunch of anonymous people sitting behind their keyboards, pointing and laughing, adding precisely zero value to any conversation.

Actually I'd argue that this is far from destructive. It's a bunch of people sitting around calling another human being a callous idiot and it affects...? Honestly, I'd rather see everyone be angry here than dignifying him with any kind of legitimate attention.

This guys smart, he essentially just told a few million loyal fans of the Xbox that they could go fuck themselves because they don't live in a city leaving the few million loyal play station and Wii fans to laugh hysterically at them.
I don't think he realizes that a lot of rural communities have super super shitty crazy expensive internet, the town I'm from you would pay 100 dollars a month for a 20 gig download cap and 5mbs download speed that would go down as many as 6 times a week, and since they people have such shitty internet they're less likely to pirate games because downloading a 8 gigabyte game is suddenly a lot less reasonable when your paying 10 dollars for every gig you go over and your monthly rate barely covers 15 hours of video content + email and necessities. this is a town with a population of 4000 mind you. And that's just in the US, I'm sure it gets even worse in other countries.

This speech isn't going to happen for another 4-5 months, why are they announcing it now? To fan the fires of hatred in the minds of all gamers? Or in the hope that everybody Orth pissed off will be enraged so much now that they'll forget about the whole ordeal by November.

Steven Bogos:

"Sorry, I don't get the drama around having an 'always on' console. Every device now is 'always on' #dealwithit"

If that were/is true, you wouldn't/don't need to force it down people's throats. Just build a device that assumes always-on and turn off always-on features when it's off. You know, the way pretty much everything else, ever works >.>

Huh, just when I was starting to forget who he was. Oh, well, so much for that.

I do appreciate that the Internet is prone to getting out the tar, feathers, pitchforks, and torches too fast for anyone's good. But complaining about it, particularly when you not only started it by being condescending but also after later events have vindicated the people you mocked, combines all the contrite charisma of Nixon's you don't have Nixon to kick around any more speech with the sublime maturity of a child throwing a tantrum while simultaneously wetting itself.

You know who I'd listen to give a speech on Internet toxicity? A writer, or a sociologist, or someone like that who interviewed:
Adam Orth,
the family of that guy Reddit unilaterally decided was the Boston Marathon bomber,
people used in memes,
people who have been doxxed,
and other people who have been turned into mockeries or targets of hate for the entertainment of the crowd.

Someone with no personal stake in it who had met with the people involved and filtered out the emotion to provide genuine information.

I didn't like this guy before but I did feel a bit sorry for him, as no one deserves to lose their job for being a jerk on the Internet. Now? Not so much.

So, Adam Orth is giving a speech devoted to outlining his hypocrisy.
Should be a hoot.

Formica Archonis:
I didn't like this guy before but I did feel a bit sorry for him, as no one deserves to lose their job for being a jerk on the Internet. Now? Not so much.

It wasn't so much the 'being a jerk on the Internet' that cost him his job. It had more to do with the fact that he made comments on a public forum where he could be and was easily identified. Granted, making Microsoft look bad probably factored into his firing, but given how bad they've made themselves look recently, I'd say that wasn't the main reason for his resignation/dismissal.

Formica Archonis:

I didn't like this guy before but I did feel a bit sorry for him, as no one deserves to lose their job for being a jerk on the Internet.

Why not? Being a jerk on the internet is no different to being a jerk in meatspace, Why should jerks be employed, when there are plenty of non-jerks who need jobs, and would probably do them better?

It appears that he was tweeting as part of his job, anyway.

Aardvaarkman:

Why not? Being a jerk on the internet is no different to being a jerk in meatspace, Why should jerks be employed, when there are plenty of non-jerks who need jobs, and would probably do them better?

It appears that he was tweeting as part of his job, anyway.

It seems that being a total prick is a mandatory requirement for anyone who wants to be a higher-up in the business world.

BloodSquirrel:

Adam Orth destoryed Adam Orth's career. No amount of "toxicity" from gamers would have cost Orth his job- it was him deciding to sling mud at gamers that cost him his job.

If that's all it took, half of Microsoft would be on skid row. Face it, that's nonsense.

LordLundar:

Wouldn't work. They were using promo vids and dev kits at E3. You know, the stuff running off of Windows 7 and doesn't have kinect hooked up.

Nobody even tried.

Which was the point in and of itself.

SkarKrow:

Ineed I hope so, and I meant to say what they want, hence the striked out you...

Hopefully so because mass customer feedback is hardly a bad thing, it's only bad if you do things the customer doesn't want.

Hopefully, people go up against CliffyD next.

Smilomaniac:

They both got heavily critisized for what they said, both went to do a speech about it and both ignored any and all reasonable opposing viewpoints.

I have a feeling you're one of those people who's never watched a single FF video or read anything she wrote, but rather had it paraphrased to you by some histrionic teenage boy who is afraid he's going to lose boobies in games because some mean feminazi made a video.

If you want to pretend that talking about rape and death threats is for suggesting games might be sexist is on the same level as getting yelled at for actively insulting your customer base, I guess I can't stop you.

I now want to see a speech called "How to act in an unprofessional manner with your consumer base then deny responsibility for your failings". This reeks of a sad man trying to justify his poor behaviour, and the following consumer feeback as "toxic" unruly overreacting. When even his own employer told him to "GTFO" you think he'd see that as him having done wrong and especially now that they have backtracked also.

Nimzabaat:
It's also just a coincidence that Valve is going "what a great idea, we should think about doingthat". And people are getting excited for it because it's Valve and not Microsoft.

I hate it when I have to defend Valve.

Look, Valve and Steam do have problems, and their fanboys can be ridiculously over-the-top. However, your comparison is ridiculous in itself. You're comparing the removal of a standard model and replacement with a more limited one with the addition of a more liberal model.

Not to mention, the library sharing was the one element people really WANTED, so I don't see why the one part people liked not being surrounded by Microsoft's bullshit wouldn't be met with praise.

It's natural to want more over less. Do you not understand this concept?

Reeve:
I think Mr Orth might be a professional troll. He's doing all the things one would do if one were hellbent on pissing off as many people as possible. :D

It's weird that I find the internet to be too cynical, since I make Dari Morgendorffer look downright optimistic.

Elijin:
Didnt the context of his comments take place between him and someone he regularly bantered with, and then got picked up and broadcast everywhere, without context, due to the nature of public information on twitter?

I think him giving a speech on it would be worthwhile, seeing as he fell victim to saying something stupid to a friend, in a scenario where everyone could see it and run with it.

He's a major figure for a company in the middle of serious contentions on that very subject. If he wants to talk about the nature of the internet and how you shouldn't say stupid things thinking nobody is watching you, that's one thing.

AC10:
So opinion and online communities having power is... bad?

*whines* consumers aren't supposed to have SPINES!

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