Update: Fez Dev Tells Media Member To Kill Himself

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neonit:
this is why people who cant deal with PR, shouldnt have twitter accounts.

meh, cant say i give a damn about him - seems like pretentious prick to me, i tend to avoid such people....

ps said text is a quote(by Bender Bending Rodriguez), im pretty sure it was meant as a joke.

The joke get lost in translation in text if you have not watch that episode. He should have included the video so that people would get it.

*facedesk*

Why must talent and being an asshat tend to coincide quite a couple of times?

I respect Blow (and, by extension, Fish) as great developers, and while I haven't played Fez, it looks like an awesome game and I feel like I need to go play it sometime soon.

But I always feel that some developers (or just talented people in general) start getting this ego and think they're above criticism, and start having more erratic and irrational responses.

Oh for god sake, here we go again. Does anyone else remember the days when you could say something, online or in the real world, and not have every single word scrutinised to ascertain the real truth? I'm surprised Fish isn't in Guantanamo as a result of this.

Yes, he is a complete dickhead, but so are most people; they're just not as open about it. Telling another grown man to kill themselves in a throwaway comment is not a big deal.

If he had a tantrum over a comment like that then it is probably best that he just fades back to obscurity.

Good on the man for going somewhere else. I wouldn't want to work in the game industry either.

Azaraxzealot:
So... because he's honest, open, and speaks his mind that makes him a giant prick?

Yes, because... shocking as this may sound, you can speak your mind and articulate points w/o being a jerk.

I'm going to miss Phil, he may not have made a game I actually WANTED to play, but he was EXACTLY the kind of developer this industry needs to instill a positive change in this festering stagnation. One that was not afraid to actually be a NORMAL PERSON

"Normal Person" with a serious case of thin skin for someone making games. We must know an entirely different set of "normal" people, cuz the ones I know can function w/o being assholes all the time and possess some modicum of self awareness. Like, say, being inflammatory with remarks on twitter is a magnet for the kind of abuse that Fish claims to hate getting.

The AAA games industry may be stale and might need shaking up, and Fish has points about not being beholden to publishers for certain things and being allowed freedom. Valid points, I might add. But the indie games scene has an image too, and Fish is exactly the picture of what a lot of people think. Some unstable, pompous asshat, who goes off the handle when someone calls him or his art mean names. People like Marcus get paid to do what they do, doesn't matter if its right, its reality. Reality should be known and understood. Fish said he still liked twitter, but if the bad started to outweigh the good, he should have dropped it and left, especially if it was affecting hims so negatively.

I guess the industry is just not ready to accept that people with a bit of fame and credibility are actually people too who have differing opinions, emotions, and lives outside of their career.

Who cares about the lives outside their career? I hope they are happy and fulfilled, enjoying life, but as a consumer I want to know how the game I'm excited for is going along. This isn't E! You think most gamers care about that crap?

Developers aren't going back into their offices, the smart ones aren't anyway. They should be saying.. "hmm when people are assholes on twitter, bad things happen. Maybe I should be more on point when I talk to fans and watch what I say."

All I learned from this is that Fish is still an ass, and the Beer guy is a right cunt. So all seems usual in the world still.

"The thing with us "tosspots" "hipsters" is that we're not beholden to media leeches like you, and you're right. we're VERY successful. And we're not going anywhere.

Which he then follows with cancelling his project.

You know what they say about being successfull and how that's the best revenge? Do that, Fish, instead of being a jerk to people.

There he goes, as if to prove Beer's point. ^^

Andy of Comix Inc:

Well... I was just seeing if you considered yourself nihilistic or not. That you took insult to it, hey, that proves you're not. So, cool.

Anyway, suicide is worse because it is directly preventable, basically. Depression is really simple to spot and manage, and its a matter of awareness, really. If more people who need help seek help... there'd be less suicide.

It is a selfish act. That's the thing. It's an individual act that only harms others; the person committing suicide gains nothing, everyone around them loses out. And they could so easily find help! That's the thing - suicide is so easily stopped! That it isn't is an awful tragedy, really.

I assumed it was an insult considering your comment was, pretty much, "stop being a nihilist downer, cheer the fuck up and learn empathy". However, I am not a nihilist still.

The first part about suicide being directly and simply preventable I've touched on before by saying that a lot of deaths are. Heart disease and strokes are rather easily preventable if you're willing to put some work into it. Car accidents are usually pretty easy to prevent since most of them boil down to "lack of care". Although, depression, less so. For someone who claimed before that you've had depression, I'm surprised you'd claim it's easy to spot and manage. Especially among men, depression is seen in a severely negative light to the point where it's usually deeply hidden. It's why for men there is a statistically significantly greater chance of succeeding at suicide than females, because they tend to go for sure-fires like hanging, gun-shot wounds and jumping in front of trains. Even if you get diagnosed, managing is far from simplistic. So you either go through therapy where you need to meet a therapist you like and trust and then you take a good few years of CBT to get cured of it, or you take pills that don't solve the core problem and give you a collection of nasty side effects. It's not hopeless, but it's a very difficult challenge to fix mental illnesses. It's even tricky to manage it.

About the suicide being a selfish act though, I'm sorry but I disagree very strongly. I think the mentality that an individual's life is not his/her own, but rather he/she must exist with an experience they do not enjoy for the sake of others to be selfish to the core. Those who kill themselves get something out of dying, and it's usually the belief in what they think the afterlife will provide. Even if you're an atheist who believes there is nothing after death, at the very least it's the peace of absence. Which if you're someone who is going to kill themselves, it's a very attractive prospect since you likely have absolutely nothing really going for you (I really do mean nothing) and everything in your life is a negative. We're talking about living in a society you've grown to loathe, surrounded by a species you despise, as you go to your poorly paid tedious job that has no future prospects. We're talking about having no real friends to speak of and a poor relationship if one at all. Those who submit themselves to the act are rarely those who haven't put much thought into it. Others may lose out, but my view is this loss isn't any more tragic than the same guy getting hit by a bus by accident.

Although, I have to wonder this: If you say it's so easily preventable and easy to notice, assuming I'm wrong, then why does no one talk to them about it? If the individual in question does get asked about it and then deny it, then why is it still a tragedy that the person decided that he wants to take his/her own life, the most sacred possession he/she has, and crush it between his/her fingers?

Edit: I just would like to say that I'm sorry these posts seem lengthy, almost needlessly so. It's not on purpose.

Pchh, he'll be back.

What I mean--Escapist 'low content' policy--in that sentence, is:

This guy is clearly someone who has a conflicting desire to be popular and talked about, and to be frikkin' alone. So I don't think he'll be gone for long.

What is it about twitter that makes people go full asshole? I mean everyone who goes near it seems to turn into some sort of jerk.

He's such a whiny bitch, like Fex was good, I loved it. But if he's going to be such a little baby in the face of trolls I'm glad he's gone

I haven't really been following this guy. But it seems like a lot of the hate he gets he brings to himself for being a dick, and not being able to handle the backlash of being one.

Wow, let's make an article about a guy who's clearly already been attacked too fucking much to deal with it in a reasonable manner any more, and then attack him some more. Cause that always helps.

Honestly, I'm not surprised that celebrities, even if this guy is only an "internet celebrity" punch the occasional journalist. I'd snap eventually too. And again, here we see page after page of the most brutal judgment, because judging another person from behind the safe anonymity of a screen is such an easy thing to do. I haven't seen Mr Fish's twitter page, but maybe there's a REASON he snapped like this, and receiving even more abuse from just about every person on the internet is hardly gonna help him. Fuck, I'm on the 9th or so page of this thread, so it's unlikely many people are gonna read this, but have some fucking compassion when a person is getting hassled in this manner on a daily basis. What he did wasn't smart, but that doesn't mean you have to be snarky to hell and back about it.

Phil Fish is Phil Fish crazy
Just be glad it's him not you
If you had Phil Fish's troubles
You might be Phil Fish crazy too
You'll show your big shiny game
You buy expensive patches
But you'd be the only man on earth
That couldn't enjoy Phil Fish

Alright... I couldn't make the last line rhyme, but I am not Colton

I really do think Fish overreacted quite a bit - he could've responded calmly to Beer without coming across as incredibly irritating.

The same goes for Marcus Beer though. I watched the particular part of the podcast and he was far from civilized or sensible in the way he presented his opinion. At least I think that people in a similar position should refrain from calling people "wankers", "tosspots" or "fucking arseholes" publically.

I liked Fez, Beer was an asshole and being an asshole is what makes his on-air personality (which is a thing I've never understood the attraction of), Fish is a motherfucker who should never have been on shit like Twitter or at least learned to just not respond to people on it. I get that he wanted to live life like a regular guy but shit man, folks have been firing shots at him for a minute and going at all the shit he did to do it; better to just actively avoid all that perniciousness, for the sake of his own emotional health and not throwing fuel into the flames.

Sucks for him, but I'm glad there isn't a Fez 2 being made; don't sequelize shit like that. Just make something else. And never again be that sucker that says "kill yourself" on the internet, whether he meant it threateningly or, as some folks have presumed, a manner of bringing; that shit is just classless.

Riobux:

Andy of Comix Inc:

Well... I was just seeing if you considered yourself nihilistic or not. That you took insult to it, hey, that proves you're not. So, cool.

Anyway, suicide is worse because it is directly preventable, basically. Depression is really simple to spot and manage, and its a matter of awareness, really. If more people who need help seek help... there'd be less suicide.

It is a selfish act. That's the thing. It's an individual act that only harms others; the person committing suicide gains nothing, everyone around them loses out. And they could so easily find help! That's the thing - suicide is so easily stopped! That it isn't is an awful tragedy, really.

I assumed it was an insult considering your comment was, pretty much, "stop being a nihilist downer, cheer the fuck up and learn empathy". However, I am not a nihilist still.

The first part about suicide being directly and simply preventable I've touched on before by saying that a lot of deaths are. Heart disease and strokes are rather easily preventable if you're willing to put some work into it. Car accidents are usually pretty easy to prevent since most of them boil down to "lack of care". Although, depression, less so. For someone who claimed before that you've had depression, I'm surprised you'd claim it's easy to spot and manage. Especially among men, depression is seen in a severely negative light to the point where it's usually deeply hidden. It's why for men there is a statistically significantly greater chance of succeeding at suicide than females, because they tend to go for sure-fires like hanging, gun-shot wounds and jumping in front of trains. Even if you get diagnosed, managing is far from simplistic. So you either go through therapy where you need to meet a therapist you like and trust and then you take a good few years of CBT to get cured of it, or you take pills that don't solve the core problem and give you a collection of nasty side effects. It's not hopeless, but it's a very difficult challenge to fix mental illnesses. It's even tricky to manage it.

Well I meant to say it is easy to spot it and manage it... it is less easy to act on those managements. I mean I've been seeing psychologists nonstop for the past 5 years, taking the same anti-depressant medication... it is a long, arduous process. But the first step is noticing and getting yourself in - and that bit is only as hard as you believe it to be. That's what I meant to say.

I want to say, I'm really sorry I've dragged this out. I'm not so much upset or offended by your views... I'm more fascinated. I guess I've taught myself to think this way because it's what's kept my neck out of a noose; I believe that suicide is a selfish act because that helps me to not do it. It's what my parents told me. I really can't leave them alone if I can help it, y'know?

As for Phil Fish though... you say that nothing of value would be lost if he killed himself. This is where I kind of assumed you lacked empathy - there's a strain in there of "I don't mind if he kills himself, because I don't care about him." And my response, well, he's human - someone, somewhere cares about him. His life gives value to someone. Hell, he's a creative - I know I loved FEZ along with quite a few other people... is that not a value?

It's the idea that "nothing of value is lost [to me]" that kind of made me consider you might be a bit on the nihilistic side, lacking a bit of compassion, or the ability to put value on people's lives beyond what they can offer (or have offered) to you. That's why I leapt at you; you've proven this is merely a difference of opinion, though, not something more insidious as I had incorrectly assumed.

Lol, so he tells someone to kill themselves (I know it is a future me quote but of everyone gets that) and cancels his game. But he is not canceling his game because of "the boorish fuck." Nioce. Phil Fish is amazing.

There must not be much of worth to report on if this manchild's tantrum is newsworthy.
He's even gone and removed himself from the equation.

This basically seems to be how Phil Fish works

Phil Fish: "anybody still buying nintendo hardware is either socially underdeveloped or emotionally stunted. or both." (an actual quote from him)

Internet: Stop being a total asshole for no raisin! (since apparently quoting Futurama makes anything okay according to this thread)

Phil Fish: WHAT!? I'm not an asshole! Fuck all ya'll! Eat my dick on a sandwich with a side of steak fries and a kosher pickle and then engage in one of your murder suicude pacts, nerds! (not an actual quote from him)

I'm going to assume that Phil got a LOT of backlash over that statement, and then probably attributes that to his "daily abuse" but it's something he brought on himself. I'd be willing to bet that a LOT of the personal attacks that the man gets could have been avoided if he just hadn't decided to go "I'm going to say something that will probably upset people now."

If he hadn't been such a prick, the worst he would've been known for is being that guy who made that fairly decent indie game. Like any indie developer he would've gotten the hipster or elitist name thrown at him a fair amount, but I'd wager that's still better than...y'know...douche...fucker...prick, and so on.

Beer is an asshole too, no doubt about that. So it's hard to root for anyone in this fight. But in my eyes this is a fight between some guy I've never even heard of vs. a developer that is already pretty known for starting fights and stirring up controversy.

Irridium:

Senare:
I think that the way Fish acted is very human and that is not something I would hold against him. If this was someone else, would you really hold it against that person to steam up and lash out if they were attacked? How much of a moral high ground should we really expect others to take?

Indeed. Especially in Fish's case, who gets abuse more or less constantly. Doesn't matter who you are, deal with that for a year or two straight and it wears you down. At this point his patience for insults is pretty much gone, so yeah. Totally understandable to see him react this way.

Plus, some of the others say he had some kind of depression going on.

So let's see...

Depression + Constant Abuse for a couple of years + Twatter...

hmm... yeah... I don't wonder that he finally blew it. I'm surprised it took this long.

Hate to say it but yeah, most creative people with the drive to see their creations through to completion tend to be asshats because if they weren't they'd never get it past the drawing board.

I mean seriously. People say this is just some guy's tantrum, it's not. This is a guy who more or less had an uphill struggle with a boulder and upon reaching the top after such a struggle the last thing you are in the mood to hear is criticisms about your technique and form from someone who's never done it.

It's a shame we'll lose Fez 2 and that the games industry loses another creative spark. That'll be one less endearing game to stand against the sea of generic brown spunkgargleweewee FPSs

I'm I the only one who finds Fish's comment kind of awesome god forbid some one who gets shit tossed in their face say something hurtful.

scotth266:

Raiyan 1.0:
Why do people hate Jonathan Blow again?

Because he made those stupid stars in Braid, ruining a perfectly good game.

Being serious though, he says a fair amount of stuff, some of it stupid, some of it not. I tend to think the stuff he says is more on the stupid side, and a fair number of people agree. Phil Fish is another shining example of this, though he's a LOT more toxic than Blow's ever been, and consequently gets a lot more flack for it. Telling people to "choke on my cock" when you get criticized tends to make you a big fat target.

I just went back to check the articles on Blow on the Escapist... and all I saw were him stating dissatisfaction with the the general direction mainstream gaming is going, criticism of console corporate culture, some mildly controversial stuff about pricing on different platforms, more criticism on the evils of social gaming, one controversial comment about story-based games being shit... honestly, I don't find him saying much stupid shit. Hell, one article snarkily remarks at Blow's dismissal of the entirety of gaming, even the quotes themselves were from a misguided interviewer, not Blow himself.

I have heard a few of his technical panels on game development, and he gives intelligent advice.

Deathfish15:
One that was not afraid to actually be a NORMAL PERSON instead of some nebulous, unseen developer who only shows his face to say something factual about whatever they're working on, hype it up a little, then disappear back to the office.

Thing is, normal people have to deal with the consequences of their words and actions, without the shield of "PR blandspeak" to protect them. We really do. It's why we try not to be terrible to other people, we'll usually get flack for it, at the very least.

It's entirely possible to be a normal person without being a constant douchebag to enough people that it becomes your entire reputation. It's also entirely possible to be a normal person and take it on the chin when your Futurama reference gets misinterpreted.

So yes, Phil Fish is a normal person. Who also happens to be a thin-skinned, arrogant, scheming blowhard. It wasn't long ago that when Fez was in an indie games contest, he tried to get one of his competitors disqualified for landing a publishing deal and ceasing to be "indie," when at the same time he was hammering out a similar deal for Fez--he's not just a jerk, he's a venomous snake.

Over the course of years of making an ass of himself in public, he made his bed, decided to lie in it, and then subsequently threw his bed out the window and lit his bedroom on fire when he realized it was too hard.

Surely he is the champion of gaming development reform we all desperately needed.

Raiyan 1.0:

scotth266:

Raiyan 1.0:
Why do people hate Jonathan Blow again?

Because he made those stupid stars in Braid, ruining a perfectly good game.

Being serious though, he says a fair amount of stuff, some of it stupid, some of it not. I tend to think the stuff he says is more on the stupid side, and a fair number of people agree. Phil Fish is another shining example of this, though he's a LOT more toxic than Blow's ever been, and consequently gets a lot more flack for it. Telling people to "choke on my cock" when you get criticized tends to make you a big fat target.

I just went back to check the articles on Blow on the Escapist... and all I saw were him stating dissatisfaction with the the general direction mainstream gaming is going, criticism of console corporate culture, some mildly controversial stuff about pricing on different platforms, more criticism on the evils of social gaming, one controversial comment about story-based games being shit... honestly, I don't find him saying much stupid shit. Hell, one article snarkily remarks at Blow's dismissal of the entirety of gaming, even the quotes themselves were from a misguided interviewer, not Blow himself.

I have heard a few of his technical panels on game development, and he gives intelligent advice.

I believe it was how he was presented in IG:TM. How he was upset people didn't "get" the message in Braid.

RaikuFA:

But both of them do only come out from the woodwork when they want attention. Beer was calling them out for just that.

Even if that be the case, it doesn't change the fact that Mr. Beer is a douche bag. The lowest, scum-sucking tosser of the gaming journalist breed.

Besides, there're different ways to "call someone out" on something.

There's the well-tempered, mature, level-headed, and sharp-minded way. Then there's the ill-tempered, immature, confrontational, and dim-witted way.

A decent journalist; one who isn't a twat; would use the former method. Mr. Beer seems to relish in using the latter.

So like I said in my previous post: Marcus Beer can fuck right off.

Besides, I find this communities knee-jerk response to the whole affair far more depressing and aggravating than the clearly biased article or the affair itself.

shrekfan246:

It's not so much a lack of humor as the reference being just obscure enough that people who aren't avid followers of the show wouldn't get it; I should know, I missed it myself.

And given the way the guy has reacted to other subjects in the past, it's not beyond reasonable to assume he meant something like that seriously.

I can't see even Phil Fish saying that and actually meaning it.

And yes, the quote is obscure enough to fly over most heads. That much has been made clear with the overreaction of much of the community to this whole debacle.

However, I think most of us have been too quick to side with Marcus Beer simply because of our already-present dislike of Phil Fish.

Like I said to the poster above, Mr. Beers comments were as childish and confrontational as Mr. Fishs; if not more so.

In fact, even though I've very little (if any) respect for Phil Fish, I actually find myself siding with him on this one. His response was a bit too torrid, admittedly, but I honestly think Mr. Beer deserved it.

I mean, we're quick to lambast game designers and industry people for rude comments and actions, especially when the critics point them out to us. Yet, we rarely if ever hold the critics responsible for their own comments or actions.

Unless, of course, that critic is making fun of something we like. Then it's 'war'.

Fish's attitude and lack of social graces were my main reason for holding off on purchasing Fez, in spite of the praise it had gotten. This outburst has changed my views very little, and only in the downward direction.

I see he keeps getting in trouble with people from a wide variety of places. I may be wrong here, but to my knowledge McMillen isn't on the best of terms, either, so it's not just an issue with "the evil media". Maybe Fish is just a dick?

Vigormortis:

RaikuFA:

But both of them do only come out from the woodwork when they want attention. Beer was calling them out for just that.

Even if that be the case, it doesn't change the fact that Mr. Beer is a douche bag. The lowest, scum-sucking tosser of the gaming journalist breed.

Besides, there're different ways to "call someone out" on something.

There's the well-tempered, mature, level-headed, and sharp-minded way. Then there's the ill-tempered, immature, confrontational, and dim-witted way.

A decent journalist; one who isn't a twat; would use the former method. Mr. Beer seems to relish in using the latter.

So like I said in my previous post: Marcus Beer can fuck right off.

Besides, I find this communities knee-jerk response to the whole affair far more depressing and aggravating than the clearly biased article or the affair itself.

shrekfan246:

It's not so much a lack of humor as the reference being just obscure enough that people who aren't avid followers of the show wouldn't get it; I should know, I missed it myself.

And given the way the guy has reacted to other subjects in the past, it's not beyond reasonable to assume he meant something like that seriously.

I can't see even Phil Fish saying that and actually meaning it.

And yes, the quote is obscure enough to fly over most heads. That much has been made clear with the overreaction of much of the community to this whole debacle.

However, I think most of us have been too quick to side with Marcus Beer simply because of our already-present dislike of Phil Fish.

Like I said to the poster above, Mr. Beers comments were as childish and confrontational as Mr. Fishs; if not more so.

In fact, even though I've very little (if any) respect for Phil Fish, I actually find myself siding with him on this one. His response was a bit too torrid, admittedly, but I honestly think Mr. Beer deserved it.

I mean, we're quick to lambast game designers and industry people for rude comments and actions, especially when the critics point them out to us. Yet, we rarely if ever hold the critics responsible for their own comments or actions.

Unless, of course, that critic is making fun of something we like. Then it's 'war'.

Oh definetly hes also an ass, it just seems like people keep going "Beers the worst, he's picking on a developer who's done nothing wrong." It's like the bully beating up the guy who won't stop talking down to everyone and thinking he's better than everyone. Yeah you still hate the bully, but that kid really needed his ass kicked.

Well at least he knows when to get out of something if it's not good for himself. Even so, maybe he could try a different approach, like being an anonymous indie developer. Then, when he gets pissed off at people on the internet, he can say it as himself, in which case, no one will listen, nor care, and thus not hurl any more shit at him for that. At any rate, he's definitely got some problems he needs to work on himself. And if he truly has a love of games, then after he gets his own problems sorted out, my bet is he'll come back. Or maybe he's a giant attention whore and just wanted to become internet famous, so he decided the best way to do it was to make a game.

What a whiny little bitch.
Good riddance I say, his shitty game was a poor attempt at being artsy fartsy anyways.

Interesting bit of obscure Phil Fish trivia for you.

Fez was nominated for best Indie Game in some award ceremony or another, along with with The Binding of Isaac. I'm not entirely sure of the details (I'm remembering this from the Tvtropes article on Isaac), but I think Fish voted against Isaac. Edmund McMillen wasn't happy about his game being insulted, but thankfully is mature enough not to take to Twitter to start a flame war. Instead, he gave one of the characters in Isaac a little Fez as a nod to Fish.

But here's the rub; that character is called Judas. So you see, even fellow indie developers can't stand Fish.

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