Ken Levine: Online Abuse Hurts Gamers In The Long Run

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Ken Levine: Online Abuse Hurts Gamers In The Long Run

Ken Levine

Image Source: Bioshock Wiki

Sometimes it's just not worth the trouble any more.

"There are guys who I respect and like who walked away from the space because it's just not worth the trouble any more," says Ken Levine in a Eurogamer interview. "Especially if you've got families and got lives." The Phil Fish debacle is on Levine's mind right now, along with the death threats sent to Call of Duty developer David Vonderhaar over a recent Black Ops 2 patch. "This is why the world often does not take gaming seriously," said Activision community manager Dan Amrich at the time, "this is why gamers are assumed to be immature, whiny assholes." But Levine goes to the heart of the problem: online abuse hurts gamers, in the long run. It forces developers to walk away from gaming, and puts unreasonable pressure on the remainder, by beating them into submission and disenfranchising them.

"The amount of pressure," says Levine. "I'm used to the pressure, but there may be a guy who's not like me, who doesn't have the experience, who will give into that pressure and release something that's not as good." Why get up in the morning and go to work, Levine argues, when you know full well you're only going to get insulted and abused, or have your family threatened? There are many great fans out there, Levine quickly acknowledges, and he always wants to make sure that the product he delivers is what those gamers really will enjoy. But sometimes, he knows, the pressure can get to developers, and that's where the problems start.

It's not as if Levine's going anywhere; he's happy doing what he's doing, and loves his job. But it took him a long time to get to that point. "Everybody's entitled to do what they want to do," he says, "but just like the developer at some point is entitled to say, you know what? It just isn't worth it for me any more." Then gaming loses another creative, and the industry as a whole is the poorer for it.

Source: Eurogamer

Permalink

I fully endorse this message.

Gamers, on the whole are a... perspectiveless lot. Wanna know how my Mom, friends and co-workers sees gamers? Go read our thread on the Company of Heroes review-bombing.

I am so sorry, I'll make sure to never abuse anyone over the internet again. I'll just settle with delivering messages with no meaning wrapped up in pretentious self-aggrandizing wank.

Well done Ken Levine. We need more reasoned mature statements like yours in gaming culture.

These offenders will be seen to by law enforcement yeah? Pardon me for saying this, but couldn't he just report them then ignore them. They're smart guys, they'd know that these vocals are the minority. I saw Jim's presentation in "Go Fish", so I'm not saying anything about being thick skinned, but can they not pay it no heed?

Karloff:
Why get up in the morning and go to work, Levine argues, when you know full well you're only going to get insulted and abused, or have your family threatened?

Because you care? Why do cops bother to get up every day knowing the abuse they're going to face? Presumably because it's what they want to do.

I take his point, and fully agree that abusing people online is unjustified bullshit. The blame lies with the abuser is 99% of cases, not the victim. However, if you're doing a job you love, does it matter that you're getting hate for it if it's what you want to be doing?

lacktheknack:
Gamers, on the whole are a... perspectiveless lot. Wanna know how my Mom, friends and co-workers sees gamers? Go read our thread on the Company of Heroes review-bombing.

Got a linky? I'd quite like to have a shufti.

anyone want to hear my take on this ? no ? well you can't stop me muhahahhahaha

ahem anyway...PvP...that's the problem...that and "the traditional market" which E3 has shown the big bods in the industry can't seem to shift away from focusing on.

basically young men are naturally hyper competitive...it's a stage in life...you get to a certain point and you change from being a wide eyed child burdened with insatiable curiosity into...a new thing who thinks he knows everything and to whom every discussion is "an argument" that must be won...and you bounce around like that for a few decades, perhaps having a near breakdown at some point and/or realising "i knew fuck all" until you reach another later stage where your brain kinda stops caring quite so adamantly about things lest you have a heart attack/stroke...

as for PvP its become hyper prevalent because from a developers pov it takes far less work to make a PvP game than a single player one. all you really need to do is give players the gloves and shorts and put them in a ring and they will manufacture their own gameplay and "fun" without you having to do anything else...and ofc if the game was "fair" and "correctly balanced" people would win everytime...

imo add these two things together and you get a gaming scene that's predominately filled with...assholes.

but on both counts partial blame lies with the industry.

and if they want tweenage males to stop being "assholes" they are going to be waiting a very, very long time...

yea, I laugh at the people calling Fish a whiney asshole for canceling Fez II because of abuse people threw at him.

fuck them, I would of canceled Fez II and made Fez I completely unplayable, assholes.

Along with the dumbass kid who threatened the CoD guy because of a patch that increases times for two weapons by .1 seconds?

yea, next patch every weapon has a 10 second refire rate, and a 5 minute reload time, accuracy gets decreased to 10000 [essentially at that point rounds are traveling at right angles out of the barrel] thats what the CoD community would get for threatening me.

Anyone that defends either of the abusers with Fish or Voderhaar is a dumbass that should be subjected to actual abuse just so they can feel how it really affects people.

I would be far more worried if there weren't dozens or hundreds of new artists chomping at the bit to enter the industry every. single. day.

So the ones who can't deal with pressure get weeded out. If you are doing what you really want to do, you find ways to deal with it like Ken has.

I'm pretty sure it hurts them in the short term too.

I mean, does anyone actually enjoy reading that stuff? I suppose it can be funny if you're sufficiently detached, but personally it mostly makes me grumpy.

SonicWaffle:

lacktheknack:
Gamers, on the whole are a... perspectiveless lot. Wanna know how my Mom, friends and co-workers sees gamers? Go read our thread on the Company of Heroes review-bombing.

Got a linky? I'd quite like to have a shufti.

LTK will doubtless respond to you but I dug it up myself after he mentioned it; I left that thread alone initially without going into the comments.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.823115-Yet-another-Metacritic-User-Review-Bomb-Company-of-Heroes-2

Yeah, it got messy.

Karloff:
Why get up in the morning and go to work, Levine argues, when you know full well you're only going to get insulted and abused, or have your family threatened? There are many great fans out there, Levine quickly acknowledges, and he always wants to make sure that the product he delivers is what those gamers really will enjoy. But sometimes, he knows, the pressure can get to developers, and that's where the problems start.

To make a shitload of money like Levine did, and because like David Cage or Chris Roberts he doesn't seem to have enough talent to work in an industry he would apparently like to work in instead.

I can't wait till all the critics jump over his new project on Rotten Tomatoes and similar so he'll see how "nice" film critics are that aren't just jerking him off and stroking his ego over his latest mediocre on-rails FPS: http://www.firstshowing.net/2013/bioshock-creator-ken-levine-writing-the-latest-logans-run-script/ calling it the "Citizen Kane" of gaming.

This actually reminds me of a great quote from Orson Welles: http://dangerousminds.net/comments/orson_welles_hated_woody_allen

Orson Welles: Let me tell you a story about George Jean Nathan, America's great drama critic. Nathan was the tightest man who ever lived, even tighter than Charles Chaplin. And he lived for 40 years in the Hotel Royalton, which is across from the Algonquin. He never tipped anybody in the Royalton, not even when they brought the breakfast, and not at Christmastime. After about ten years of never getting tipped, the room-service waiter peed slightly in his tea. Everybody in New York knew it but him. The waiters hurried across the street and told the waiters at Algonquin, who were waiting to see when it would finally dawn on him what he was drinking! And as the years went by, there got to be more and more urine and less and less tea. And it was a great pleasure for us in the theater to look at a leading critic and know that he was full of piss. And I, with my own ears, heard him at the '21' complaining, saying, "Why can't I get tea here as good as it is at the Royalton?"

If anything, people in the game industry aren't critical enough and mostly sound like PR machines that don't seem to be able to analyze complex contexts or form an original thought of their own.

It's not as if Levine's going anywhere; he's happy doing what he's doing, and loves his job. But it took him a long time to get to that point. "Everybody's entitled to do what they want to do," he says, "but just like the developer at some point is entitled to say, you know what? It just isn't worth it for me any more." Then gaming loses another creative, and the industry as a whole is the poorer for it.

Just because he works on a creative work doesn't entitle him to be protected from criticism, if he or anyone else wishes to leave for whatever reason that is his prerogative and free choice, I'm sure someone more talented that might actually realize games shouldn't be produced the same way as Hollywood blockbusters will take his place in time and everyone will be better off in the end.

This new "boohoo, poor me, some people don't like me or my work so I'm gonna complain and throw a tantrum" trend seems wrong, self-serving and duplicitious to me in the same vein as the now played out "entitled gamer" meme.
If he just wants to figuratively have his dick sucked even more than it is being done right now, he should hire a PR agency to do that.

Teoes:

SonicWaffle:

lacktheknack:
Gamers, on the whole are a... perspectiveless lot. Wanna know how my Mom, friends and co-workers sees gamers? Go read our thread on the Company of Heroes review-bombing.

Got a linky? I'd quite like to have a shufti.

LTK will doubtless respond to you but I dug it up myself after he mentioned it; I left that thread alone initially without going into the comments.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.823115-Yet-another-Metacritic-User-Review-Bomb-Company-of-Heroes-2

Yeah, it got messy.

Fuck-a-doodle-doo, seven pages. Alright, time to put on my exploring helmet and delve deep into the jungles of bile.

Shame really. I read the article PAR linked to on the meta-bombing, and while I could see what the argument was it still made me sad. I've only recently picked of the original Company of Heroes, and it's a really good game. I was hoping the sequel could be enjoyed similarly.

I'd rather not see so much abuse either, but unfortunately that's just the way people are. Not the fucking gaming community! People! You think people haven't talked shit when it comes to the other entertainment industry's? Or just anything in general? Looking at the fucking news! Especially FOX news. I'm so sick of these people saying it's just gamers. Yes, there are always jerks out there that should be forced to wear a shock collar, but there is also a lot of people who love you and your work. If you can't deal with online abuse then IGNORE IT! Look for sites that are not so hostile. I always see these people on Twitter and I wouldn't even touch that with a 10 foot poll.

Now that that's out of the way, does he know Fish kept attracting flak and looking for abuse with his bad habbits? Fish is one of those unfriendly people he is talking about. He speaks his mind and puts down other people without thinking about the consequences. He's thrown comments up on Twitter that is only flame bait, nothing clever about it. Really, What the fuck did he expect? I don't want him to leave but he really needs to stop doing the things that keep drawing all the fire to him.

What else can I say? If your going to drop your passion because of some pricks then BYE. It's not going to change, there is too many ignorant and stupid people for that. I can't imagine it slowing down any time soon. Does anyone here think it will ever improve? I'm trying to be realistic here.

I agree with him... kinda...

Let me elaborate here. What he's saying makes sense, but he ignores the fact that it hurts gamers in the short time too. Now I don't like playing online partially because of the community. If I want to go there and be insulted I could just try to get a job as a telephone salesman.

SonicWaffle:

Just because he works on a creative work doesn't entitle him to be protected from criticism,

Criticism isn't what's at issue here, abuse is. One doesn't criticise someone by telling them to die of cancer or in a car crash or what have you. Nobody deserves to be stomped into the ground because they decided to share a creative work that wasn't "Good" enough. Don't like it, sure. Criticise it, that's fine, but maybe? Don't be a dick.

Jutaris:

SonicWaffle:

Just because he works on a creative work doesn't entitle him to be protected from criticism,

Criticism isn't what's at issue here, abuse is. One doesn't criticise someone by telling them to die of cancer or in a car crash or what have you. Nobody deserves to be stomped into the ground because they decided to share a creative work that wasn't "Good" enough. Don't like it, sure. Criticise it, that's fine, but maybe? Don't be a dick.

Pretty sure you're quoting the wrong person, here...

It's a really unfortunate intertwining of two distinct entities. The internet is full of assholes. Gaming is full of really cool and nice people. However, these days games are becoming more and more online, leading the asshole population of gaming to sky-rocket. Every medium normally has the same amount of jerks as any other, but this is a major case of association by proxy.

We've heard "this is why gamers are assumed to be immature, whiny assholes" a lot lately, and the problem is that the internet jerks have been annexed by the gaming community. Until the internet asshole problem is 'fixed' (haha, yeah right) this problem will continue to exist. In other words, we're stuck with this for the rest of forever. The best thing we can do is portray the two entities to be as distinct as possible.

SonicWaffle:

lacktheknack:
Gamers, on the whole are a... perspectiveless lot. Wanna know how my Mom, friends and co-workers sees gamers? Go read our thread on the Company of Heroes review-bombing.

Got a linky? I'd quite like to have a shufti.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.823115-Yet-another-Metacritic-User-Review-Bomb-Company-of-Heroes-2?page=7

It's locked, so it's got a limited lifespan.

Wait for the Russians to show up, that's where it gets "good".

EDIT: Beaten to my own punch, heh. Oh well.

SonicWaffle:
However, if you're doing a job you love, does it matter that you're getting hate for it if it's what you want to be doing?

Yes it does, it matters very much, a constant stream of abuse is about the fastest, most reliable way to end someone's love of a job.

The police isn't a good comparison, they gets months of training specifically designed to help them deal with the abuse that gets aimed at them, they also have an extremely direct set of abilities to strike back when abusers go too far. You don't get face full of pepper spray and arrested the moment you threaten a game developer on twitter after all.

Most people don't get to 'answer back' like that, in fact they live the complete opposite of that, if they answer back at all it's more or less guaranteed to put that job they 'love' in jeopardy. That's a horrible way to live no matter how much you love the rest of what you do.

Jutaris:
Criticism isn't what's at issue here, abuse is. One doesn't criticise someone by telling them to die of cancer or in a car crash or what have you. Nobody deserves to be stomped into the ground because they decided to share a creative work that wasn't "Good" enough. Don't like it, sure. Criticise it, that's fine, but maybe? Don't be a dick.

You quoted the wrong guy.

Also I can't stand this circlejerking over "how bad the "gaming community"" is and what a dear national treasure gaming has lost with Phil Fish. He told the guy to go kill himself and there wasn't any shortness of opportunities that he didn't use to come over as a dick, a few being:

His appearance in Indie Game: The Movie: http://buy.indiegamethemovie.com/

Antagonizing PC gamers for no reason: http://www.nowgamer.com/features/950149/fez_interview_polytrons_phil_fish.html

"Fez is a console game, not a PC game,"
"It's made to be played with a controller, on a couch, on a Saturday morning. To me, that matters; that's part of the medium. I get so many comments shouting at me that I'm an idiot for not making a PC version. 'You'd make so much more money! Can't you see? Meatboy sold more on Steam!' Good for them. But this matters more to me than sales or revenue. It's a console game on a console. End of story."

image

image

He didn't want to pay for a Patch after he broke his game and apparently caused Save corruption for a bunch of people because it would cost too much: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/358769/polytron-wont-pay-for-fez-patch/

There were various other micro-trolls over the years, like this: http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/24/an-indie-developers-strategy-to-sell-games-insult-fans-and-raise-prices/

The "indie gaming" crowd was also mad at him cause he subsequently won IGF (and a prize money) for a 2nd time after he had already won in 2008: http://www.shacknews.com/article/72777/fez-wins-igf-2012-grand-prize
http://nightmaremode.net/2012/03/opening-the-igfs-doors-17079/

Himself categorizing his game as gods gift to gaming:

According to Phil Fish, developer of Fez, the reason the IGF admitted the title for a second time was because it's looking for legitimacy: it wants people to care about it. Fez, despite it's near vaporware status, has been the biggest and the brightest indie hope for a number of years. It's a title deserving of the grand prize; it's why we weren't surprised when it won. The thing is, legitimacy doesn't come from the quality of the submitted materials. Or, rather, if Fez was submitted to prove the competition's value to the wider world, it's backfired: instead of "These are the best games", it's become, "We brought this game back down from the major leagues because we didn't think anything else was good enough."

He apparently won this by submitting his game after voting against Super Meat Boy being featured because it had an "XBLA Exclusive contract" even though his own game had the same contract:
http://www.formspring.me/Tommunism/q/307280112447925736
http://www.formspring.me/EdmundM/q/315327502144781236

He then continued to react smug:
image

Then there was the whole "Japanese games suck" thing, which I mainly agree with him on but still.

etc.

Here's some more: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=55037476

Just take some of the impressions of his amazing personality from right before he threw his latest hissy-fit:

Now he's suddenly the poor abused messiah that everyone will be missing? This is just self-serving industry-friendly spin that reminds me of a "don't criticize poor us" attitude and nothing more. I call bullshit.

Desert Punk:
I would be far more worried if there weren't dozens or hundreds of new artists chomping at the bit to enter the industry every. single. day.

So the ones who can't deal with pressure get weeded out. If you are doing what you really want to do, you find ways to deal with it like Ken has.

That's a rather disturbing way to look at it, so because they enjoy the job they are exempt from being treated with any sort of respect and can be abused and threatened for no reason at all? Frankly the people in the community that pull this crap are a disgrace and make us all look like them..... pathetic lowlives with no respect for others.

I agree it'd be practically impossible to stop it but having a view of "eh, deal with it since it's going to happen" is basically approval for dicks to act that way, when we should be opposed to it whenever it happens.

Dexter111:
If anything, people in the game industry aren't critical enough and mostly sound like PR machines that don't seem to be able to analyze complex contexts or form an original thought of their own.

I agree the critics don't do their job well and more often than not are basically PR/marketing for the big publishers, however that's a different matter to abusing and threatening people which this article is referring to. Give feedback and criticise bad gameplay design sure, but threatening and abusing the devs is crossing the line.

Dexter111:

Just because he works on a creative work doesn't entitle him to be protected from criticism, if he or anyone else wishes to leave for whatever reason that is his prerogative and free choice, I'm sure someone more talented that might actually realize games shouldn't be produced the same way as Hollywood blockbusters will take his place in time and everyone will be better off in the end.

This new "boohoo, poor me, some people don't like me or my work so I'm gonna complain and throw a tantrum" trend seems wrong, self-serving and duplicitious to me in the same vein as the now played out "entitled gamer" meme.

I think that "criticism" had nothing to do with it.
Criticism is pointing out flaws one perceives in a game and how these flaws make for a worse experience.

This is not what got Fish and others to the point of quitting the game industry.

What he, and many other developers are barraged with has naught to do with criticism and is more of a constant stream of insults and threats, which have fuck-all to say about their product and are directed at them and their families respectively.

Let me give you an example for this difference:

You don't work a job so people will like you. You work a job to make money.

I don't quit my job or sabotage my customers every time one of them pisses me off or make hollow threats to my health and well-being.

Instead, I provide the best service I can... and I take their money.

The beauty of the thing is: The better service I provide, the less people bitch about it.

The problem with "Abuse" is it generates page clicks. How many millions of copies of CoD have been sold? Then a few dickbags get on twitter and say something mean and suddenly it's front page news? Yeah I get it probably sucks to have people hate you but you cant have it both ways. Game developers and publishers have been standing up for trolls for years to increase sales and now, suddenly, when a developer gets ragged on, they get sad and change careers? How about this, spend some money moderating your games, permabanning assholes, and then get back to me on having your feelings hurt.

<facetiousness>Seems to me if we prevented teenagers from using the internet until they turned 18, we might see a huge reduction in abuse.</facetiousness>

But really, if we already prosecute juveniles differently because we acknowledge that they're hormonal, irrational, and not fully capable of sound judgment as far as social behavior is concerned, could we extend that principle to (figuratively) inhibit their influence until they've proven they can act like adults?

RicoADF:

Desert Punk:
I would be far more worried if there weren't dozens or hundreds of new artists chomping at the bit to enter the industry every. single. day.

So the ones who can't deal with pressure get weeded out. If you are doing what you really want to do, you find ways to deal with it like Ken has.

That's a rather disturbing way to look at it, so because they enjoy the job they are exempt from being treated with any sort of respect and can be abused and threatened for no reason at all? Frankly the people in the community that pull this crap are a disgrace and make us all look like them..... pathetic lowlives with no respect for others.

I agree it'd be practically impossible to stop it but having a view of "eh, deal with it since it's going to happen" is basically approval for dicks to act that way, when we should be opposed to it whenever it happens.

I never said they were exempt from being treated with respect. But it is a well known FACT that yes, there are assholes out there, there are jackasses. This is well know to anyone who has two braincells to rub together. Another thing most people know is that chances are no matter what you do you will piss one of them off with a decision and catch flack for it.

This happens in nearly any job where you deal with people. And I really wouldnt call Fish's situation "For no reason at all" He is a douchebag whos natural depth is the same as the people who give him flack, with his whole "suck my dick" "japanese devs suck" ect, ect comments.

And its not approval of people being assholes, it is just being well grounded enough to know that it IS going to happen no matter what you do so you might as well learn to live with it.

Hell, I would say most game devs could go their entire career without being molested by the internet hate machine due to the fact that they never deal with the community directly. When you go out and start making opinionated posts, of course you are going to get responses! It is quite stupid when someone engages readily with people then cries because they were mean and goes home.

Fish wouldnt have had much of a problem I am sure if he had kept his idiotic mouth shut and just made games, instead he went out of his way to antagonize people and be a troll. So like I said, there are hundreds more at least willing to jump into any vacancy he might have left, and I am sure atleast a few of them are just as talented if not more so than him, and know how to not be fuckwits.

Dexter111:
snip

This time a million!

This guy was a prick that couldn't take what he dished out. Now he is gone and I'm glad he is. It would be one thing if he had conducted himself professionally and couldn't take the abuse anymore, but that is not what happened.

Teoes:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.823115-Yet-another-Metacritic-User-Review-Bomb-Company-of-Heroes-2

Yeah, it got messy.

lacktheknack:
Wait for the Russians to show up, that's where it gets "good".

EDIT: Beaten to my own punch, heh. Oh well.

Aaaargh, fuck, my brain. Somehow I managed to struggle through that whole thing, and...Christ.

While I agree with your original assertion that this thread show a lack of perspective, the problem is more that it showed, from every side, an extremely tightly focused perspective and a refusal to abandon it. Everyone was arguing that the other sides' historians were wrong. I don't think that's necessarily a gamer issue any more than it is an everybody issue. The magical megaphone of the internet amplifies every stupid or badly-researched opinion and turns minor disagreements into pissing contests regardless of the content.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to lie down in a dark room until this headache goes away.

This is why you can't take abuse seriously. Take it for what it is, some anonymous POS teenager venting his impotent adolescent angst on the most convenient target. The Gentlemen disembowels me every time he catches me making puns here, and you know what I do when I read his quotes? I LAUGH about it because it lets me know I'm doing it right. You can't let yourself get trapped in the mindset that everyone is out to get you and that abuse is all the thanks that you get for your efforts. You need to accept the fact that you're not going to please everyone And that you bloody well shouldn't try because a lot of people are assholes who either shouldn't be catered to or have impossible standards that will never be met.

Yes this isn't something people should have to put up with but the sad fact is this is the background noise to being a public figure. And if it does get to be too much for you, THEN GET THE FUCK OFF TWITER! The truth is they can only hurt you if you let them, don't read the comments and for suck's sake DON'T ENGAGE THESE ASSHOLES DIRECTLY unless you want to make yourself miserable. Look at what Jim did with it: he managed to overcome the desire for approval and turned reflected the inflammatory sarcastic attitude back at us. And that is why we love him and thank god for him every Monday.

It's the sort of wisdom that can only come from experience unfortunately and some people just don't have the the right personality for it. I've been through several downward spirals outside of the internet and I know it's not pleasant.

SonicWaffle:
snip

Your avatar is most appropriate at this point. More power to you for making it through the whole thing. I read the first and last pages, that was more than enough for me.

lacktheknack:
I fully endorse this message.

Gamers, on the whole are a... perspectiveless lot. Wanna know how my Mom, friends and co-workers sees gamers? Go read our thread on the Company of Heroes review-bombing.

"On the whole" eh?

Enlighten me, what do your mum and co-workers think of gamers? Wouldn't be a sweeping generalization would it? Nah, couldn't be...

Ken makes a very good point. We lose very creative individuals because of this bull and it really needs to stop. What happened to David is horrible and if he decides to walk away I would not blame him in the slightest. The people who made those remarks do not and should not be representative of gaming and should never, EVER, call themselves as such. There was, and is no excuse for it. Disagree with what he has done all you want, but be respectful about it. The sooner those dregs of human society are removed from that representation status the better.

That said, it's a two way street and why I'm not as defensive of Fish. Granted, the bile and hate thrown at him from those same dregs is deplorable and everything I said about the attacks on David also apply to those wastes of humanity. However, when a developer can't even accept constructive criticism without lashing out like a 5 year old, s/he shouldn't be surprised when the reaction is that same bile s/he just threw out multiplied by ten thousand or more. Fish's problem is that he feels that he can do no wrong so he can be the innocent victim and the grand messiah while being at best no better than the dregs he so adamantly despises.

Ken is right, It hurts gaming, both in the long run and in the short run when the backlash is unwarranted. When the one provoking it walks away, regardless of how creative he is, I do wonder if the gaming industry and community were harmed or helped in that result.

SonicWaffle:
-snip-

Seems to me like the whole thing devolved into an argument as to the extent of Soviet Russia's war crimes in the Second World War. I didn't realise stuff like that would still cause such an argument.

Oh well. One day gaming will be recognised as somewhat mature. One day...

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