Forza Motorsport 5 Dev Calls Microtransactions Not a "Paywall"

Forza Motorsport 5 Dev Calls Microtransactions Not a "Paywall"

Forza Motorsport 5

Forza Motorsport 5 developer Turn 10 says the microtransactions in its game were an experiment and not Microsoft's idea.

Microtransactions, small payments in a game for additional content, can be found in several Xbox One games. In the racing game Forza Motorsport 5, players can buy tokens with real money to then buy cars. Responding to rumors that microtransactions were mandated by Microsoft, Forza Motorsport 5 developer Turn 10 said the microtransactions were an experiment from the developer.

"Honestly I think, unfortunately, people attribute too much communication to this organization," Dan Greenawalt, Turn 10 creative director, told Eurogamer. "The truth is, at Turn 10 while I'm a Microsoft employee, we're off-site... For the most part, Microsoft sees it as we're doing a good thing, so keep it up, and so we're left alone."

Forza Motorsport 4 introduced an element of microtransactions. The game had car tokens ranging from one to three dollars where the most expensive car was 10 million credits in game. Three tokens equaled 10 million credits, or three dollars. Greenawalt said feedback from Forza 4 players inspired Turn 10 to experiment with what they call "acceleration," and the tokens in Forza 5 exist to give people "cheats" if they want to pay for them.

"But honestly if you look at free-to-play games they usually have things called paywalls, where you're slowly wearing something down and the only way to get around it is to pay," Greenawalt said. "That's not what we implemented in Forza 4 and that wasn't our goal in Forza 5 either. We don't have paywalls. We have acceleration."

Greenawalt is aware of players' criticisms and hopes to fix the game's economy. Turn 10 has adjusted the price of the most expensive car from 10 million to six million. He adds "the grind was not designed to be arduous," but he admits the company made some incorrect assumptions about what players wanted in a "next-gen experience."

"[Microtransactions are] happening more and more in games, and I understand gamers being resistant," he said, "especially if they feel like they're being short-sheeted. I think people are looking out for being short-sheeted, and they're seeing conspiracy where there isn't one."

Source: Eurogamer

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Hey, Turn 10, I don't have an issue with the presence of microtransactions in video games. What I do have an issue with (or at least did) was the fact you significantly altered the game economy to favour your new microtransactions.

I could care less about the microtransactions. What really sucks is having to buy the same DLC car packs FOUR times (Forza 3, 4, Horizon, and 5).

I didn't mind paying for DLC cars the first time. I realize a lot of work went into creating the models, sampling the sound, and putting it all together. But expecting us to pay AGAIN for clearly recycled assets is asinine.

Turn 10 really should have gone with the Harmonix Rock Band model for DLC. Buy it once, convert it for the next edition (either for free or for a small fee).

And 50 dollars for a pixel and wireframe car is stupid as hell. Its not that you had a route to buy stuff its that it was so grossly overpriced, and the "grind" to unlock stuff so uphill to encourage people to pay.

Fucking really, really fucking really?
You amped up the unlocking grind tenfold and then the "acceleration" prices even more then that, but obviously we just understood it all wrong right... nothing fucking shaddy going on here guys.
Motherfucker did you fall out of the tallest stupid tree or do you expect us to do that in order to believe all the bullshit you are selling right now?

"We sold a 60 dollar videogame, then started nickel-and-diming you for cars that were ready to go at launch. Cars you'd have to grind for otherwise. But it wasn't our intention to short-sheet anyone."

Whatever, fuck you.

The problem is that Western demographics are getting mixed in with Eastern demographics. You're going to find that in the future, you can make the same game, but regionally the mechanics have been adjusted to satisfy the differences within both audiences, and one major difference you'll find is the amount of time someone has to play games - In reality it's significantly lower in the West as the original playerbases start to have jobs, raise families, and participate in more social events. East, however seems to be happy with grind, grind, grind right now and feel free to spend 12+ hours a day just playing a game.

It's the value of each hour Western players have to play that means something for them, not how many hours they want to play.

If this microtransaction thing wasn't Microsoft mandated, isn't it funny how every single Microsoft game for the Xbox One has microtransactions? Whereas that's not true either generally or with the direct competing consoles

Okay. Let's ignore the adjusting of the game's progression system for monetization, the inherent scumminess of having microtransactions in a sixty dollar game, and the fact that fifty dollars for a virtual car is fucking ludicrous. Ignoring all of that, this was still a huge mistake from Microsoft and Turn 10.

During a console launch, you want people to be talking about good things about the console. You want them to be talking about the cool new games and features for the thing. That's what gets people to want to buy it.

However, now whenever people talk about the Xbone, people are sure to bring up microtransactions, which is definitely not a positive thing you want people talking about. People are already association the Xbone with shitty business practices from the whole pre-180 fiasco, you really don't want to give these people more reasons to be distrustful of your console.

"But honestly if you look at free-to-play games they usually have things called paywalls, where you're slowly wearing something down and the only way to get around it is to pay. We don't have paywalls. We have acceleration."

And when I pay money to pass a paywall, it's usually accelerating my game experience. You call it a grind and insist it's not intentionally arduous, but how exactly was that supposed to work? A grind IS arduous, that's why we call it a grind. You need to work on your vocabulary, sir.

"... he admits the company made some incorrect assumptions about what players wanted in a "next-gen experience."

You don't have to make assumptions on things like microtransactions. The opinions and reasoning of the community are thoroughly documented and freely available.

"[Microtransactions are] happening more and more in games, and I understand gamers being resistant," he said, "especially if they feel like they're being short-sheeted. I think people are looking out for being short-sheeted, and they're seeing conspiracy where there isn't one."

You've had the better part of a decade to experiment with microtransactions/DLC and see what works and what doesn't. This is no longer resistance, this is the playing field and you're refusing to accept that. We feel short-sheeted because we ARE. Any time content is gated behind money, especially content that used to be standard fare within the game, is gated off for money we feel it because we remember. There may not be an actual conspiracy, but your case is not helped by the near uniformity in microtransaction practices amongst larger developers/producers.

And I now this has been stated over and over, but it will always merit repeating: This is not Free-to-Play and comparisons to that model are invalid for a $60+ title.

It's funny how these radical and unpopular changes are never the fault of the corporate overlords.

Ryse just happens to have microtransactions as well but that's totally the devs decision...

roseofbattle:
and the tokens in Forza 5 exist to give people "cheats" if they want to pay for them.

Remember when cheats were free?

Draconalis:

roseofbattle:
and the tokens in Forza 5 exist to give people "cheats" if they want to pay for them.

Remember when cheats were free?

This seems to be the thing that developers forget when they condescendingly try to explain to us why Microtransactions are not a bad thing.

these claims are largely full of shit, I think

there's no way to tell if they weren't forced into either taking responsibility for the implementation initially, or for making the statement

also, paywalls are USUALLY impossible grinds, that's how the most common paywalls work in the most recent games (because straight up content locking is usually less persuasive)

i'm done with this kind of thinking. it's almost near to indoctrination. that the concept is "good" the way they see it, it's just a matter of "convincing" everybody else, using "facts" and "logic"...the concept of convincing people to pay for worthless shit after pretending that the actual work was free. like some sort of auction where the paying only stops when we have regrets, and by then it's too late.

y'know what, maybe we could just maybe pay for the fucking game and stop using bullshit to make up for the excesses of the industry. how's that sound?

It was like this in their last game, forza horizon.

You could pay money to have all the secrets on the map revealed. Though I wonder if they don't allow you to use cars in single player free mode now unless you own them.

Mr.K.:
Fucking really, really fucking really?
You amped up the unlocking grind tenfold and then the "acceleration" prices even more then that, but obviously we just understood it all wrong right... nothing fucking shaddy going on here guys.
Motherfucker did you fall out of the tallest stupid tree or do you expect us to do that in order to believe all the bullshit you are selling right now?

I'm sorry but at the Motherfucker part I suddenly read it in Samuel's voice which then caused a slight fit of laughter, but I totally agree with you on them thinking we were born yesterday.

image

I don't really believe them for the simple reason that the publisher gets all that money. Typically, the studio does not get more money after the contract has been fulfilled. I get it, good PR move for MS to pay him to say this, but it's just utterly ridiculous. As others have pointed out, you completely stacked the grind so the only way to get those cars and keep your sanity is to pay extra. Also, Microtransactions in a bunch of situations are not pay walls... but making someone pay $60 and then charging them more money after that to avoid an extended grind... well that is a pay wall. What a jerk.

What Forza did and also GTs bullshit as well. If you want a short cut, fine, but dont make the grind a nightmare that it makes the game a job instead of entertainment. Some one said the gaming crash is nigh, and to be honest, if this bullshit continues, then there will be a crash. I love the olden days where you bought a game and you got a whole game. And it worked without having sloppy developers having day one patches to fix it.

Baresark:
I don't really believe them for the simple reason that the publisher gets all that money. Typically, the studio does not get more money after the contract has been fulfilled. I get it, good PR move for MS to pay him to say this, but it's just utterly ridiculous. As others have pointed out, you completely stacked the grind so the only way to get those cars and keep your sanity is to pay extra. Also, Microtransactions in a bunch of situations are not pay walls... but making someone pay $60 and then charging them more money after that to avoid an extended grind... well that is a pay wall. What a jerk.

Well Turn 10 is an internal studio, they only receive their normal programmer salary, independently of the success of their games.... I believe they were not payed to say this, THEY ARE FORCED BY THEIR CONTRACTS :(

Also i dont need to remind you that the last company that refused to be absorbed by MS was torn apart (Ensemble studios). Even Bungie was planned to be absorbed by Redmond, but they preferred to abandon the Halo IP instead of face their unavoidable destruction...

For further reading:
http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/reiniat/microsoft-will-murder-the-franchises-you-love--265648.phtml

Candidus:
"We sold a 60 dollar videogame, then started nickel-and-diming you for cars that were ready to go at launch. Cars you'd have to grind for otherwise. But it wasn't our intention to short-sheet anyone."

Whatever, fuck you.

Yeah. I don't understand companies thought process on this. I mean you buy the vanilla game and you get half the game at launch because day one DLC is a wonderful idea. Then you get hit with glitches that need be fixed with time at launch. Oh don't forget that if it's a always online DRM, then servers will go dead. All this forces more and more people to admit that buying a game on day one (like they want you to do and you want to do) is an invitation to get screwed over. Where as if you wait a couple years, you get the GOTY edition on a computer with all the glitches solved, most if not all the DLC, and either at full price or up to half off, oh and again let's not forget that the always online DRM is either patched out or not an issue. For a little cherry on top modders have long since modded away making the game just a little better (if it's a PC title). These people through their own greedy incompetence are encouraging people to not buy anything at launch.

"You see? We didn't put in a pay wall. We put in shortcuts to get around all the horrible grinding we put in to drive you towards the pay wall! Wait, that didn't sound right."

And you wonder why people get mad?

I don't really care who the evil bastards are that are responsible, its not about conspiracy, its about the games that suck because of misguided fuckwits that think we will either put up with this shit or even really like it in the first place.

STOP LOCKING AWAY GAME CONTENT!!!

I don't want to work to earn a car that ought to be just available right from the get go and I certainly do not want to pay extra real money for a game I already bought in full!

I don't care who is responsible, Microsoft or the actual developers, hang them from the tallest tree by their dicks for it, then fix the fucking game!!

Draconalis:

roseofbattle:
and the tokens in Forza 5 exist to give people "cheats" if they want to pay for them.

Remember when cheats were free?

anad i got ninjad :(
Cheats are supposed to be free and readily available, not hidden behind paywalls.

Game content should never be locked behind a paywall. There is no buts or ors, never.

He adds "the grind was not designed to be arduous," but he admits the company made some incorrect assumptions about what players wanted in a "next-gen experience."

WTF is with MS and them touting the "experience?" I can't find the articles, but in recent months (around the time of the 180), just about every other plug for the xbone harped its "Experience." I thought they had let go of that particular buzzword, instead replacing it with "Titanfall."

BrotherRool:
If this microtransaction thing wasn't Microsoft mandated, isn't it funny how every single Microsoft game for the Xbox One has microtransactions? Whereas that's not true either generally or with the direct competing consoles

idarkphoenixi:
It's funny how these radical and unpopular changes are never the fault of the corporate overlords.

Ryse just happens to have microtransactions as well but that's totally the devs decision...

Exactly what I was thinking. It's funny that Xbox One games all seem to have microtransactions in them. But those are the only games that seem to have that sort of thing. But that couldn't be something that they were told to do by Microsoft. Obviously, each studio and development team came up with those ideas independently of one another. That's just simple logic.

Whatever happened to the concept of DLC and Micro transactions being nice additions rather then requirements. From everything I've heard of Forza 5 so far, it's straddling the line between 'required' and 'nice addition' very awkwardly, which is probably the most dangerous kind.

Mass Effect 2 and City of Heroes are the first games that spring to mind that did 'nice addition' well, with the extra missions in ME2 not required but filling in a lot of details between ME2 and ME3 while City of Heroes had plenty of content and character options even before paying extra.

Forgot who mentioned it, but I agree Forza would benefit from paid for content in previous games being transferred to the next game, either for free or for a small price. Forcing you to buy the same content for each new release is insulting.

An Ceannaire:

Draconalis:

roseofbattle:
and the tokens in Forza 5 exist to give people "cheats" if they want to pay for them.

Remember when cheats were free?

This seems to be the thing that developers forget when they condescendingly try to explain to us why Microtransactions are not a bad thing.

I remember when this issue popped up for Dead Space 3. Sure, the developers made this argument, but I was surprised by how gamers in various forum kept making it. "Look, everyone is not as elite a gamer as you, so they're just giving people an option to skip through the hard stuff, or make the game easier." I kept replying over and over again that I had no problem with people cheating or changing difficulty levels, but why did they have to pay for this privilage now?

At least on PC you can usually mod around this stuff easily.

 

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