Kingdom Come: Deliverance Announced: A Historically Accurate Medieval RPG

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Elf Defiler Korgan:

Eric the Orange:
Well I guess that's nice for the hardcore ren-fair types. But if it's really historically accurate you probably have at least a 50-50 chance of dying from any wound from infection even if it's not in a vital spot. which I guess would make the game difficult if that's your thing.

Also from what I've read of midevil combat, it wasn't pretty. Unless you were a commander or some such you didn't get the cool sweeping shots of hundreds of people. Maybe just a few people around you in the press of bodies. The noise and mud making it difficult to tell friend from foe. Attacking everyone around you in hopes of making it out alive. most likely to be killed by something you didn't see coming.

Incorrect view on everyone having a weak immune system. Have you ever been scraped or slightly injured yourself and managed to not die from infection? That humans are so vulnerable and die from tiny little cuts without a hospital to save us is a myth. Filthy times and a lot of sickness to be sure, but that means those that do survive into adulthood can handle some germs and minor injuries.

THANK YOU!

It's all well and good when people joke, but man... when people actually think it was a case of 'I scratched my hand on a nail' = dead, I just want to take a copy of the Order of the Phoenix to their head again and again until the police come to collect me on a murder charge.

Humans aren't made of tissue paper, people. We're fucking resilient. This being a species that has a documented case of a man taking an iron rod clean through the head and continuing to go about a more or less normal existence.

Edit: Arguably the reason we have so many people with allergies and whatnot these days is because we're at a point where people have far less germs in their immune systems anyway, so they become more vulnerable to them.

Yup, I'm probably going to buy this. Depends on the combat though.

Something damage model based rather than HP based would be nice. You can kill people by delivering fatal blows rather than whittling a number down. I miss Bushido Blade...

What's all this "i dunno where im getting hit from, derpa durr peripheral vision" nonsense? They've had directional damage indicators since the first Medal of Honor. It tells you where you're getting hit from.

Cecilo:

dystopiaINC:

Cecilo:
If it is Historically Accurate. Eight times out of ten you should die on starting the game, with the words "You died from the plague. Please restart."

Joking aside, It could be very interesting, but to really simulate it you are going to need a powerful computer, Armies back then really didn't rely on one person doing all the work, huge lines of soldiers crashing into each other, being peppered with arrows, catapult/trebuchet rocks raining down as you approach a citadel, an entire column of your brothers in arms, just being taken out by Ballista bolts.

Hoping to whatever god your liege has decided to believe in, that you aren't the first line, as you march on an enemy city/fortress, or standing on the walls of a city as a huge army sets up camps and builds giant machines of war that had no business even holding together.

But. Realistically, I am expecting you to be some kind of hero. That can carve huge swaths of the enemies army to ribbons.

While we are here, Does anyone think that a game that just tosses you into the game as a random swordsman, and when you die you become another soldier in the army. Would be a decent game?

Actually yes. I had a very long talk to a friend about a concept I had where armies of players would be put in formations and fight battles in historical settings. the example I was going on would be a Roman Vs. Carthage slug fest where you get put in first person in a shield formation or a Calvary formation and fight it out, dieing would have you put in a reinforcement group that would be re-spawned at intervals. the end game winner would be decided on death tolls and what armies held what ground at the end of the match. and I'm talking about hour long matches. whit historical armies and place and landscapes.

The only problem I see with that, is it is.. restrictive. It only allows for a set scenario. If an enemy army did things correctly you could be cornered, No reinforcements, Surrounded on all sides with no one coming. I do like your idea, maybe if we could merge them a bit..

Well yes, one of the things we discussed would be players being spawned in in waves as reinforcements. part of the whole object would be field control as well. So IMO there should be a reward for proper field control and unit movements. but at the end of the day matches could be decided on both death count AND field control. areas of high importance being held being worth a great amount of value can earn you a victory even if you lost hundreds more men taking it. And with a re spawn wave I can see it working as a reinforcement wave that comes in and rejiggers who is surrounding who. there are some obvious kinks but I think it could be a really cool idea.

Captcha: I am here. well then lets start the party!

Elf Defiler Korgan:

Eric the Orange:
Well I guess that's nice for the hardcore ren-fair types. But if it's really historically accurate you probably have at least a 50-50 chance of dying from any wound from infection even if it's not in a vital spot. which I guess would make the game difficult if that's your thing.

Also from what I've read of midevil combat, it wasn't pretty. Unless you were a commander or some such you didn't get the cool sweeping shots of hundreds of people. Maybe just a few people around you in the press of bodies. The noise and mud making it difficult to tell friend from foe. Attacking everyone around you in hopes of making it out alive. most likely to be killed by something you didn't see coming.

Incorrect view on everyone having a weak immune system. Have you ever been scraped or slightly injured yourself and managed to not die from infection? That humans are so vulnerable and die from tiny little cuts without a hospital to save us is a myth. Filthy times and a lot of sickness to be sure, but that means those that do survive into adulthood can handle some germs and minor injuries.

Or, Bad luck Brian is cleaning his greaves, and he cuts his hand on the metal. Then dies.

Nice visual on the body press though.

I think he means actual serious wounds, from, you know, arrows and pikes, not paper. Which would remain untreated indefinitely, and coupled with the fact that these people were surrounded by the most unsanitary conditions possible (an army of peasants who probably bathed once in their lives. Plus dead people), the instances of minor wounds escalating to serious infection were probably reasonably common.

dyre:

Elf Defiler Korgan:

Eric the Orange:
Well I guess that's nice for the hardcore ren-fair types. But if it's really historically accurate you probably have at least a 50-50 chance of dying from any wound from infection even if it's not in a vital spot. which I guess would make the game difficult if that's your thing.

Also from what I've read of midevil combat, it wasn't pretty. Unless you were a commander or some such you didn't get the cool sweeping shots of hundreds of people. Maybe just a few people around you in the press of bodies. The noise and mud making it difficult to tell friend from foe. Attacking everyone around you in hopes of making it out alive. most likely to be killed by something you didn't see coming.

Incorrect view on everyone having a weak immune system. Have you ever been scraped or slightly injured yourself and managed to not die from infection? That humans are so vulnerable and die from tiny little cuts without a hospital to save us is a myth. Filthy times and a lot of sickness to be sure, but that means those that do survive into adulthood can handle some germs and minor injuries.

Or, Bad luck Brian is cleaning his greaves, and he cuts his hand on the metal. Then dies.

Nice visual on the body press though.

I think he means actual serious wounds, from, you know, arrows and pikes, not paper. Which would remain untreated indefinitely, and coupled with the fact that these people were surrounded by the most unsanitary conditions possible (an army of peasants who probably bathed once in their lives. Plus dead people), the instances of minor wounds escalating to serious infection were probably reasonably common.

Unsanitary yes, but lets be honest. the more you live in stuff like this the better your immune system is going to become to fight it off. somebody like me or you may get sick inside of a week but for these guys it's so every day it's nothing. yeah big open wounds might get infected but that just it people are acting like a paper cut is gonna kill you.

Akichi Daikashima:
Boob-window peasant doesn't seem historically accurate, or rather, not likely.

Nor does the dashing rouge in that same picture either.

Nah, I'm being silly, hopefully this works out, I want me a good RPG that isn't something made by Bioware, Bethesda or CDProjekt.

For one horrifying minute there, I thought you were about to run off on a tangent about how a (supposedly) historically accurate Medieval game needs more gender equality.

As for the game itself, colour me interested: I've actually wanted to play a Medieval RPG (or at least something with swords and bows for that gloriously gritty "up close and personal" feel) for some time now, minus the fantastical elements. I know there's Mount and Blade but I want something with humans that look like humans damnit!

Eric the Orange:
Well I guess that's nice for the hardcore ren-fair types. But if it's really historically accurate you probably have at least a 50-50 chance of dying from any wound from infection even if it's not in a vital spot. which I guess would make the game difficult if that's your thing.

Also from what I've read of midevil combat, it wasn't pretty. Unless you were a commander or some such you didn't get the cool sweeping shots of hundreds of people. Maybe just a few people around you in the press of bodies. The noise and mud making it difficult to tell friend from foe. Attacking everyone around you in hopes of making it out alive. most likely to be killed by something you didn't see coming.

If they could pull it off (i.e. without it being impossible to play), I would much prefer a chaotic FPS melee system where bodies are slamming into you from all directions, you have no idea what's happening beyond the enraged Flemish peasant in front of you and you must desperately fight tooth and nail to survive, let alone win. Too often was the case in Mount and Blade where I could literally slice platoons of enemy troops to ribbons by myself....

dystopiaINC:

dyre:

Elf Defiler Korgan:

Incorrect view on everyone having a weak immune system. Have you ever been scraped or slightly injured yourself and managed to not die from infection? That humans are so vulnerable and die from tiny little cuts without a hospital to save us is a myth. Filthy times and a lot of sickness to be sure, but that means those that do survive into adulthood can handle some germs and minor injuries.

Or, Bad luck Brian is cleaning his greaves, and he cuts his hand on the metal. Then dies.

Nice visual on the body press though.

I think he means actual serious wounds, from, you know, arrows and pikes, not paper. Which would remain untreated indefinitely, and coupled with the fact that these people were surrounded by the most unsanitary conditions possible (an army of peasants who probably bathed once in their lives. Plus dead people), the instances of minor wounds escalating to serious infection were probably reasonably common.

Unsanitary yes, but lets be honest. the more you live in stuff like this the better your immune system is going to become to fight it off. somebody like me or you may get sick inside of a week but for these guys it's so every day it's nothing. yeah big open wounds might get infected but that just it people are acting like a paper cut is gonna kill you.

I think while living in that environment does help the immune system, there's really an upper limit to how good a natural immune system can be. It's definitely true that armies suffered HUGE casualty numbers from disease, and that often the vast majority of deaths in medieval wars were from disease, not battle, so clearly their immune systems could only do so much.

Also, melee combat does increase the likelihood of big open wounds compared to shrapnel cuts or w/e. Infection was definitely a serious, probably the most serious problem, before the discovery of penicillin. Considering that people in medieval times didn't even know about the existence of germs, it's likely that the wounds weren't even properly cleaned. I wouldn't be surprised if the surgeons just slapped on some bacteria-ridden used cloth on the wound to prevent bleeding.

dyre:

dystopiaINC:

dyre:

I think he means actual serious wounds, from, you know, arrows and pikes, not paper. Which would remain untreated indefinitely, and coupled with the fact that these people were surrounded by the most unsanitary conditions possible (an army of peasants who probably bathed once in their lives. Plus dead people), the instances of minor wounds escalating to serious infection were probably reasonably common.

Unsanitary yes, but lets be honest. the more you live in stuff like this the better your immune system is going to become to fight it off. somebody like me or you may get sick inside of a week but for these guys it's so every day it's nothing. yeah big open wounds might get infected but that just it people are acting like a paper cut is gonna kill you.

I think while living in that environment does help the immune system, there's really an upper limit to how good a natural immune system can be. It's definitely true that armies suffered HUGE casualty numbers from disease, and that often the vast majority of deaths in medieval wars were from disease, not battle, so clearly their immune systems could only do so much.

Also, melee combat does increase the likelihood of big open wounds compared to shrapnel cuts or w/e. Infection was definitely a serious, probably the most serious problem, before the discovery of penicillin. Considering that people in medieval times didn't even know about the existence of germs, it's likely that the wounds weren't even properly cleaned. I wouldn't be surprised if the surgeons just slapped on some bacteria-ridden used cloth on the wound to prevent bleeding.

On that I can agree. It wasn't up until the American civil war that we learned about clean tools and hospitals making people live longer. that is a long time for medicine to catch up. I think think people over hype a bit though.

dystopiaINC:

On that I can agree. It wasn't up until the American civil war that we learned about clean tools and hospitals making people live longer. that is a long time for medicine to catch up. I think think people over hype a bit though.

That's not entirely true. People had known, since before the time of the ancient Greek city-states, that cleanliness generally meant healthier people. Though, they may not have known exactly why.

Also, the "no bathing in medieval times" thing is not entirely true, either. Some disease paranoia associated with water emerged, and some religious sects (certainly not all of them) viewed the act of bathing nude as indecent (especially in public), and sometimes the act of bathing at all as over-indulgence or too hedonistic.

All those Roman bath houses and bathing habits didn't just disappear overnight.

I know this is entirely off-topic but im still waiting for my fantasy power metal medieval RPGs :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4dI7nKC1ck
COME ONE!! DOUBLE FINE ALREADY SHOWN THAT THESE KINDS OF THINGS ARE POSSIBLE, NO MORE BORING REALISM OR SUPER STANDARD FANTASY.... what happened with peoples imagination?

Geth Reich (Yakob):

Akichi Daikashima:
Boob-window peasant doesn't seem historically accurate, or rather, not likely.

Nor does the dashing rouge in that same picture either.

Nah, I'm being silly, hopefully this works out, I want me a good RPG that isn't something made by Bioware, Bethesda or CDProjekt.

For one horrifying minute there, I thought you were about to run off on a tangent about how a (supposedly) historically accurate Medieval game needs more gender equality.

As for the game itself, colour me interested: I've actually wanted to play a Medieval RPG (or at least something with swords and bows for that gloriously gritty "up close and personal" feel) for some time now, minus the fantastical elements. I know there's Mount and Blade but I want something with humans that look like humans damnit!

Oh you!

It was only how "Pirates of The Carribean/any Disney action movie ever" the pair look in screen 3.

An accurate depiction of such a parley between the two wouldn't end well that well in the Middle Ages D:

This has probably been said more than once in this thread, but thinking about the real Middle Ages, I don't think they're a time period I would want to have lived in, plus I'm not sure how appealing it would be to spend time in a simulated, non-romanticized version of it. I mean, consider the features that would have to be advertised:

Play all of our game's ONE playable races!

Play as a peasant man: spend all day plowing fields, milking cows, shoveling out horse stalls, harvesting crops, driving wolves away from the livestock and then have the nobility show up and take half of it from you in exchange for not chopping your head off.

Play as a peasant woman: Spend all day cooking, weaving, cleaning, washing clothes, have almost no human rights and get boned by any horny nobleman who sees you bend over in the garden.

Experience the thrill of having no opportunity for a better life as you climb from levels 1-50, from a dirty, put-upon peasant to a still-dirty, still-put-upon peasant.

Catch a myriad of diseases, such as gout, shingles, rickets, tuberculosis, wet lung croup, influenza, fever, septic infections and the black plague. Employ dozens of folk remedies to heal yourself, like herbs, leeches, unsanitary amputations, all of which will never work (well maybe the amputations, but they'll almost always lead to another disease due to rusty blades and filthy living conditions).

Engage in thrilling, one-move combat where you die from a single blow from an enemy.

Historically accurate complete with rape, rampant disease, infection, sheep buggery, malnutrition, taking 2-3 days to die from a single sword blow, short lives, crushing social order, backbreaking labor, wanton murder and everything else, including witches and getting burned AS a witch?

Oh hey, sign me up for that shit....

Eric the Orange:

Elf Defiler Korgan:

Eric the Orange:
Well I guess that's nice for the hardcore ren-fair types. But if it's really historically accurate you probably have at least a 50-50 chance of dying from any wound from infection even if it's not in a vital spot. which I guess would make the game difficult if that's your thing.

Also from what I've read of midevil combat, it wasn't pretty. Unless you were a commander or some such you didn't get the cool sweeping shots of hundreds of people. Maybe just a few people around you in the press of bodies. The noise and mud making it difficult to tell friend from foe. Attacking everyone around you in hopes of making it out alive. most likely to be killed by something you didn't see coming.

Incorrect view on everyone having a weak immune system. Have you ever been scraped or slightly injured yourself and managed to not die from infection? That humans are so vulnerable and die from tiny little cuts without a hospital to save us is a myth. Filthy times and a lot of sickness to be sure, but that means those that do survive into adulthood can handle some germs and minor injuries.

Or, Bad luck Brian is cleaning his greaves, and he cuts his hand on the metal. Then dies.

Nice visual on the body press though.

well I guess I was thinking not so much cuts an scrapes but rather like a good sized lice across the leg. The 1-2 centimeters deep. Some thing to day that would require stitches and a few weeks keeping off the leg would probably mean leg Removal by Gangrene back then.

I will put it like this. I was in a flood back in 1998 (unfortunately), and during the cleanup I stepped on a sharp piece of glass (as large as two hands) in muddy water, that really damaged my foot. Lot of blood, the water was filthy and I thought I was fucked (because I heard the same things you had heard). It really needed stitches, but none were available, the hospital having been under water.

I survived, I didn't get an infection. I had to keep working because you know, recovering and repairing things after a flood is important and treatment wasn't available. I am not superman, I'm just another guy (that found himself injured in a flood). So when people say small cuts and injuries would have killed the medieval person all the time because of unsanitary conditions, I'm calling bullshit.

Binnsyboy:

Elf Defiler Korgan:

Eric the Orange:
Well I guess that's nice for the hardcore ren-fair types. But if it's really historically accurate you probably have at least a 50-50 chance of dying from any wound from infection even if it's not in a vital spot. which I guess would make the game difficult if that's your thing.

Also from what I've read of midevil combat, it wasn't pretty. Unless you were a commander or some such you didn't get the cool sweeping shots of hundreds of people. Maybe just a few people around you in the press of bodies. The noise and mud making it difficult to tell friend from foe. Attacking everyone around you in hopes of making it out alive. most likely to be killed by something you didn't see coming.

Incorrect view on everyone having a weak immune system. Have you ever been scraped or slightly injured yourself and managed to not die from infection? That humans are so vulnerable and die from tiny little cuts without a hospital to save us is a myth. Filthy times and a lot of sickness to be sure, but that means those that do survive into adulthood can handle some germs and minor injuries.

THANK YOU!

It's all well and good when people joke, but man... when people actually think it was a case of 'I scratched my hand on a nail' = dead, I just want to take a copy of the Order of the Phoenix to their head again and again until the police come to collect me on a murder charge.

Humans aren't made of tissue paper, people. We're fucking resilient. This being a species that has a documented case of a man taking an iron rod clean through the head and continuing to go about a more or less normal existence.

Edit: Arguably the reason we have so many people with allergies and whatnot these days is because we're at a point where people have far less germs in their immune systems anyway, so they become more vulnerable to them.

Cheers. Yes, people have been shot, stabbed, lacerated, been blinded, lost limbs and survived through the ages. Some famous figures have taken quite the thrashing.

To understand medieval immune systems, we would need to study someone like a poor person of Manilla, living around a rubbish heap. Then we would have an idea what they could take.

Happy holidays.

Akichi Daikashima:
Boob-window peasant doesn't seem historically accurate, or rather, not likely.

1) Actually this is historically accurate piece of clothes of common people. At least for central HRE where the game probably takes place.

2) People were not that crazy about boobs at those days. Remember times when the symbol of erotica was woman's anckle? Well that was some 200 years later and boobs still weren't a big deal. Boobrage is a relative modernism.

3) Cleavage is not at all the central point of this image and the composition doesn't draw attention to it. It is a natural part of the scene. So it is your problem you are watching at the cleavage, not the history's not the dev's.

4) Imagine a historically accurate game in ancient hellenic world or in africa. Naked boobs everywhere. Your mind would blow! Yet if not accentuated it would be ok.

Eric the Orange:
Well I guess that's nice for the hardcore ren-fair types. But if it's really historically accurate you probably have at least a 50-50 chance of dying from any wound from infection even if it's not in a vital spot. which I guess would make the game difficult if that's your thing.

Don't interchange realism (historical accuracy) and simulation. Different things.

Akichi Daikashima:

Geth Reich (Yakob):

Akichi Daikashima:
Boob-window peasant doesn't seem historically accurate, or rather, not likely.

Nor does the dashing rouge in that same picture either.

Nah, I'm being silly, hopefully this works out, I want me a good RPG that isn't something made by Bioware, Bethesda or CDProjekt.

For one horrifying minute there, I thought you were about to run off on a tangent about how a (supposedly) historically accurate Medieval game needs more gender equality.

As for the game itself, colour me interested: I've actually wanted to play a Medieval RPG (or at least something with swords and bows for that gloriously gritty "up close and personal" feel) for some time now, minus the fantastical elements. I know there's Mount and Blade but I want something with humans that look like humans damnit!

Oh you!

It was only how "Pirates of The Carribean/any Disney action movie ever" the pair look in screen 3.

An accurate depiction of such a parley between the two wouldn't end well that well in the Middle Ages D:

*Big cheesy, sitcom-esqe grin*

Hmmm, well I'm no expert on Medieval fashion (anything pre-Vera Wang is too gauche for moi, daaahling), but I'm fairly certain cleavage exposing clothes has existed for women since forever. Particularly for tavern folk who I imagine would recognize the cunning appeal of a comely barmaid's bosom for thirsty and horny soldiers and travellers.

But yeah, the conversation probably will end in unpleasantness.

Sexy unpleasantness!

>;)

Captcha: By The Book.

Goddamnit Captcha, we've let too many get away through playing by the rules!

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