Mangaka Claims Kill la Kill Plagiarizes His Manga

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What a bunch of bullshit. If the art is original and the writing is original then it doesn't matter if it tells a similar story to your work. It isn't any kind of infringement and you need to shutup with the nonsense.

That Ooshima dude seems like a royal cunt.

Does he even know what fucking PTSD is? Because I do and you dont get it from seeing something vaguely similar to something you made years and years ago.

Can't we just watch our silly cartoons without people throwing a bitch fit about who ripped-off who,which waifu is best girl and how this character can beat up that character.

I've been reading manga since the 90s. I can't even beging to tell you how many times I've felt like I've already read something before. It's all large collections of tropes that imitate eachother. For example:

*Dragonball Z + Yu Yu Hakusho = Hunter x Hunter.
*Hunter x Hunter + .hack// + Diabolo = GetBackers.
*Hunter x Hunter + food porn = Toriko.
*Slayers + gender swap = Gokudo & Orphan Revenge.
*Slayers + ecchi = Dragon Half.
*Petshop of Horrors + Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro = Black Butler.
*Legal Drug - CLAMP + guns & smoking = Wild Adapter.
*Marmalade Boy + Chou Gals = Peach Girl.
*Fist of the North Star + Devilman = Zero Apocalypse.
*Gunsmith Cats + outer space = Dirty Pair & Project A-Ko Battle Versus.
*Cutie Honey + violence = Devilman Woman.
*Yu-Gi-Oh + Pretear = Card Captor Sakura.
*DNA 2 - ecchi + homoerotic tension = DNAngel.
*Azumanga Daioh + all boy's school = Sukigake Cramortie High.
*Sukigake Cramortie High + Great Teacher Onizuka - Onizuka = Gukosen.
*Kino no Tabi + gender swap = King of Bandit Jing (moreso in the anime version).

Storm Dragon:

Legion:
The sheer amount of anime's that seem to be based around "Highschool club is going to be closed unless students do X" would suggest that originality isn't exactly it's strong point. Like the Triple A gaming market and Hollywood, if a concept is popular, it will be bled to death.

The fact that one of the other people working on it doesn't see the connection suggests the claims are somewhat tenuous.

Umm... that's not what Kill la Kill is about.

I am aware. I am a fan of the show.

I was saying that like most other forms of media, anime is not exempt from people taking similar concepts and using them over and over again. The mention of Highshcool club's was purely an example of a common theme used repeatedly in anime. My point being that simply having a similar concept such as that, is not enough to claim plagiarism. If it were then there are a lot of anime's that would be accused of it, just like many films and games.

Jesus christ people, how the hell do you know if this guy's got PTSD or not?

Isn't the absurdly powerful student council thing something of a prevailing trope in anime?

The answer is yes, yes it is.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AbsurdlyPowerfulStudentCouncil

chikusho:
Jesus christ people, how the hell do you know if this guy's got PTSD or not?

We don't but we can be pretty certain it wasn't from watching an anime trailer.

While I have not seen his work but I wouldn't called the situation to be plagiarism (Nick Simmon Incarnate however is) just more like the said work is similar to many other tropes out there already. Even then, comparing his character to Nui Harime is not a good example of plagiaring, sure the two are abit (both child like and suppose to be cute) similar but not an outright copy cat.

Many anime and manga stuff is interchangable and clicheed (especially those catering to young or midaged males), overlaps are bound to happen in a scene like this.

piscian:
Having watched the first episode it actually reminds of Project AKO. Probably a bit before most of you kittens time though.

-old timer high five-

SacremPyrobolum:

chikusho:
Jesus christ people, how the hell do you know if this guy's got PTSD or not?

We don't but we can be pretty certain it wasn't from watching an anime trailer.

Really? What clued you in on that?
Maybe the part where it says nowhere in the text that he got PTSD from the trailer?
How perceptive!

chikusho:

SacremPyrobolum:

chikusho:
Jesus christ people, how the hell do you know if this guy's got PTSD or not?

We don't but we can be pretty certain it wasn't from watching an anime trailer.

Really? What clued you in on that?
Maybe the part where it says nowhere in the text that he got PTSD from the trailer?
How perceptive!

He said he had "symptoms similar to PTSD after watching the trailer." That is a pretty bold and most likely untrue statement. Maybe it was the translation or maybe it was an unfamiliarity with the term, that I could understand.

But comparing PTSD to the shock of seeing a trailer of something that is in some ways related to a comic you wrote a while is hyperbolic and downright insensitive.

SacremPyrobolum:

chikusho:

SacremPyrobolum:

We don't but we can be pretty certain it wasn't from watching an anime trailer.

Really? What clued you in on that?
Maybe the part where it says nowhere in the text that he got PTSD from the trailer?
How perceptive!

Which is obviously hyperbole to the insane degree.

Maybe it just faulty translation into English which is the culprit or being unfamiliar with the connentations that come with the phrase PTSD, but I do not think it is unreasonable to assume that the guy did not experiance it while watching a silly anime trailer.

It would likely be hyperbole if he said he now suffers PTSD which he contracted from watching a trailer.

However, he did not claim any such thing (according to this article). He said he had: "symptoms similar to PTSD after watching the trailer."
Which, if we look at it medically, could mean a combination of anything from a very long list of symptoms that might, or might not, be connected to a traumatic event in his past.

So, for all the people in this thread would know, his claim could be entirely accurate. And you have no reason to believe otherwise.

chikusho:

SacremPyrobolum:

chikusho:

Really? What clued you in on that?
Maybe the part where it says nowhere in the text that he got PTSD from the trailer?
How perceptive!

Which is obviously hyperbole to the insane degree.

Maybe it just faulty translation into English which is the culprit or being unfamiliar with the connentations that come with the phrase PTSD, but I do not think it is unreasonable to assume that the guy did not experiance it while watching a silly anime trailer.

It would likely be hyperbole if he said he now suffers PTSD which he contracted from watching a trailer.

However, he did not claim any such thing (according to this article). He said he had: "symptoms similar to PTSD after watching the trailer."
Which, if we look at it medically, could mean a combination of anything from a very long list of symptoms that might, or might not, be connected to a traumatic event in his past.

So, for all the people in this thread would know, his claim could be entirely accurate. And you have no reason to believe otherwise.

Alight, lets say he suffered symptoms of PTSD.

You still do not say you suffered from PTSD symptoms. It implies that you have PTSD.

Yes, it's technically true, but him saying that is like me saying I had "radiation sickness like symptoms" after eating a half cooked fish at a shady stand under a dock. Its hyperbolic and ultimately misleading. Like I do not have to deal with cancer this guy does not have to deal with the soul crushing depression that comes from real PTSD.

SacremPyrobolum:

Alight, lets say he suffered symptoms of PTSD.

You still do not say you suffered from PTSD symptoms. It implies that you have PTSD.

Yes, it's technically true, but him saying that is like me saying I had "radiation sickness like symptoms" after eating a half cooked fish at a shady stand under a dock. Its hyperbolic and ultimately misleading. Like I do not have to deal with cancer this guy does not have to deal with the soul crushing depression that comes from real PTSD.

There's a big difference. Firstly, radiation sickness is caused by radiation, and cancer is a long term effect of radiation exposure, not a symptom of radiation sickness. Also, I completely understand the parallel between the two and would not consider it misleading at all.

PTSD, on the other hand, can be caused by an enormous amount of experiences that can vary wildly between each individual. The same with what triggers it after it has set in. This is a psychological affliction with much more abstract and hard to pin down cause and effect. Ultimately, the only person who can determine whether or not his reaction to this particular event is like PTSD or not is Ooshima himself. And you, not only doubting his reaction, but also reacting to a single word of his description out of context, is very unseemly.

Even if it is Plagarism, good luck proving it. A lot creative works borrow from each other - there's very little new under the sun and if we crucified every single new bit of media that resembled something else, we'd be crucifying darn near everything.

I've never seen Kill La Kill and I've never read whatever Manga Ooshima claims it rips off of, but I've watched a lot of movies and I've read a lot of books and the thing Ooshima is complaining about - taking the basic premise and themes from a work of fiction and using parts of them to make a new work of art - is INCREDIBLY common. As common as dishwater.

Is Pacific Rim "plagiarizing" Evangelion? Are The Hunger Games "plagiarizing" Battle Royale? Is the recent Tomb Raider game "Plagiarizing" the Uncharted games? Are the Uncharted Games "plagiarizing" from the older tomb raider games?

Ooshima might be right that the creators of Kill la Kill saw his earlier work and decided to make something similar, but that is NOT plagiarism. At the very worst it's creatively bankrupt, but not evil and in reality it's usually a pretty standard, normal thing that artists do. Many, many great books, films, games and shows have used earlier works to inspire them.

chikusho:
It would likely be hyperbole if he said he now suffers PTSD which he contracted from watching a trailer.

However, he did not claim any such thing (according to this article). He said he had: "symptoms similar to PTSD after watching the trailer."
Which, if we look at it medically, could mean a combination of anything from a very long list of symptoms that might, or might not, be connected to a traumatic event in his past.

So, for all the people in this thread would know, his claim could be entirely accurate. And you have no reason to believe otherwise.

Accurate or not, he's still being a massive asshole to people who suffer major PTSD symptoms over things that actually matter (no, a trailer to an anime that looks similar to yours does not matter). If it's accurate, that's even worse, because it more effectively trivializes the harrowing moments that actual PTSD sufferers experience. He was saying, in effect, "This trailer so closely resembles my old anime that it gave me horrible twinges based off a previous traumatic event", which makes the reader not take PTSD with the seriousness that they should.

Whether he "suffers symptoms of PTSD" or not, pointing out that you have them for the sole purpose of discrediting someone's creative work makes you a massive ass. He shouldn't have bothered bringing them up. I mean, reading your response gave ME "symptoms of PTSD", but do you care? I don't.

You do realize that splitting hairs so thin that they're strings of atoms doesn't make you clever, right? You prove nothing and annoy people.

chikusho:

SacremPyrobolum:

Alight, lets say he suffered symptoms of PTSD.

You still do not say you suffered from PTSD symptoms. It implies that you have PTSD.

Yes, it's technically true, but him saying that is like me saying I had "radiation sickness like symptoms" after eating a half cooked fish at a shady stand under a dock. Its hyperbolic and ultimately misleading. Like I do not have to deal with cancer this guy does not have to deal with the soul crushing depression that comes from real PTSD.

There's a big difference. Firstly, radiation sickness is caused by radiation, and cancer is a long term effect of radiation exposure, not a symptom of radiation sickness. Also, I completely understand the parallel between the two and would not consider it misleading at all.

PTSD, on the other hand, can be caused by an enormous amount of experiences that can vary wildly between each individual. The same with what triggers it after it has set in. This is a psychological affliction with much more abstract and hard to pin down cause and effect. Ultimately, the only person who can determine whether or not his reaction to this particular event is like PTSD or not is Ooshima himself. And you, not only doubting his reaction, but also reacting to a single word of his description out of context, is very unseemly.

I can say I have PTSD or cancer till the cows come home. Still doesn't make it true and still makes me look like and asshole when its not.

I'm not going to say that seemingly harmless things like trailers to action shows can't set some people off but consider the context of the article. It implies that he suffered PTSD symptoms not because of the big flashy action sequences but because he was apparently so shocked at how similar his manga was to the show, which seems incredibly unlikely. What is much more realistic is that he hoped to garner some sympathy by linking his reaction to the trailer to that suffered by military veterans or rape victims.

Don't call me unseemly because I can see bullshit when I read it.

Quiet Stranger:
My girlfriend actually has PTSD and after reading his comments, now I'm pissed off. What an ignorant silly butt to claim he has feelings similar to PTSD after watching a trailer.

You win one internet for calling him a silly butt.

OT: Really, really, REALLY? PTSD from a freaking trailer!

I feel for any artist who have had their work copied but come on fella, Kill la Kill's as much a rip off as Gurren Lagann is a Gundam clone. It's really well animated shit and giggles with some memorable lines thrown in, almost a parody... kind of, the good type that actually takes itself seriously... not in terms of subject matter but in actual effort... derp!

lacktheknack:

Accurate or not, he's still being a massive asshole to people who suffer major PTSD symptoms over things that actually matter (no, a trailer to an anime that looks similar to yours does not matter).

So, are people who suffer from lesser PTSD symptoms are also being massive assholes?
Also, who are you to decide "what actually matters" anyway?

If it's accurate, that's even worse, because it more effectively trivializes the harrowing moments that actual PTSD sufferers experience. He was saying, in effect, "This trailer so closely resembles my old anime that it gave me horrible twinges based off a previous traumatic event", which makes the reader not take PTSD with the seriousness that they should.

PTSD covers a large spectrum of symptoms and varying degrees of severity.
By your argument, if someone lost a finger and called himself an amputee that would trivialize the term for people who lost a hand, who in turn would trivialize it for people who lost an arm.

Also, those are your words, not his. Your emphasis is on "trailer". It would be an equally likely assumption to make that he meant: "Being blatantly robbed of my life's work, knowing that I'm powerless to stop it, is causing me extreme levels of stress and depression / triggering feelings of utter helplessness from past trauma."

Whether he "suffers symptoms of PTSD" or not, pointing out that you have them for the sole purpose of discrediting someone's creative work makes you a massive ass. He shouldn't have bothered bringing them up. I mean, reading your response gave ME "symptoms of PTSD", but do you care? I don't.

I've never said anything about whether or not you should care about his feelings. In fact, I don't care. I have no vested interest in this anime or his old manga.
But, I mean, obviously you do, since otherwise you wouldn't be attacking him for having that reaction.

Also, it could just as likely be "the sole purpose of discrediting someone's creative work" as "the sole reason that it was his honest reaction". You have no reason to suspect either, yet you've obviously made your decision, based on next to no information.

You do realize that splitting hairs so thin that they're strings of atoms doesn't make you clever, right? You prove nothing and annoy people.

You do realize that making unfounded assumptions about other people in order to judge them doesn't make you clever, right? It proves nothing and makes the world a worse place.

SacremPyrobolum:

I can say I have PTSD or cancer till the cows come home. Still doesn't make it true and still makes me look like and asshole when its not.

By this logic, since you don't have PTSD, Ooshima can't have it either? What are you trying to say?

I'm not going to say that seemingly harmless things like trailers to action shows can't set some people off but consider the context of the article. It implies that he suffered PTSD symptoms not because of the big flashy action sequences but because he was apparently so shocked at how similar his manga was to the show, which seems incredibly unlikely. What is much more realistic is that he hoped to garner some sympathy by linking his reaction to the trailer to that suffered by military veterans or rape victims.

If PTSD was only about violent trauma, you might've had a point.
Although, it's not, and you don't.

Don't call me unseemly because I can see bullshit when I read it.

Oh, I'm not. I'm calling you unseemly because you're ready to call bullshit on something that you know nothing about.

Not gonna bother with your whole post, because we clearly don't see things on the same level, but:

chikusho:
Also, it could just as likely be "the sole purpose of discrediting someone's creative work" as "the sole reason that it was his honest reaction". You have no reason to suspect either, yet you've obviously made your decision, based on next to no information.

It is not "just as likely" and to say it is is to completely fail at both probability and basic human psychology.

Suffering genuine PTSD symptoms because someone makes a similar product as you is an unusual (and pathetic, I maintain) situation with literally no comparable examples that I can think of.

Being a jackass to make a point, however, is VERY common and I can think of hundreds of examples off my Facebook wall alone.

From that alone, no, I can feel VERY safe thinking that he's being a jackass to make a point. Heck, I'd put my life's savings on it.

likalaruku:
I've been reading manga since the 90s. I can't even beging to tell you how many times I've felt like I've already read something before. It's all large collections of tropes that imitate eachother. For example:

*Dragonball Z + Yu Yu Hakusho = Hunter x Hunter.
*Hunter x Hunter + .hack// + Diabolo = GetBackers.
*Hunter x Hunter + food porn = Toriko.
*Slayers + gender swap = Gokudo & Orphan Revenge.
*Slayers + ecchi = Dragon Half.
*Petshop of Horrors + Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro = Black Butler.
*Legal Drug - CLAMP + guns & smoking = Wild Adapter.
*Marmalade Boy + Chou Gals = Peach Girl.
*Fist of the North Star + Devilman = Zero Apocalypse.
*Gunsmith Cats + outer space = Dirty Pair & Project A-Ko Battle Versus.
*Cutie Honey + violence = Devilman Woman.
*Yu-Gi-Oh + Pretear = Card Captor Sakura.
*DNA 2 - ecchi + homoerotic tension = DNAngel.
*Azumanga Daioh + all boy's school = Sukigake Cramortie High.
*Sukigake Cramortie High + Great Teacher Onizuka - Onizuka = Gukosen.
*Kino no Tabi + gender swap = King of Bandit Jing (moreso in the anime version).

Pretty much. Anime's been getting increasingly insular since the later 90's, on top of a lot of stuff being very formulaic. So I don't get why this guy is crying foul in an industry where "genre" pretty much means almost exactly the same show.

It's not like he made something out of the box or original in the first place either. As others pointed out, Utena was the ur-example of this particular subgenre and both Noise and KlK have a lot in common with it.

Hell you don't see Akira Toriyama bitching that Bleach and Naruto are plagiarizing Dragon Ball or DBZ.
You don't hear about Go Nagai or Ken Ishikawa claiming PTSD after watching Gundam, Eva, or a Magical Girl show. I mean, Ishikawa isn't going to be claiming much of anything what with being dead, but still.

chikusho:
[quote="lacktheknack" post="7.838874.20597338"]

Oh, I'm not. I'm calling you unseemly because you're ready to call bullshit on something that you know nothing about.

And you know soooooo much more about it I'm sure.

You talk a lot about not jumping to conclusions. How the hell do you know that I'm not an authority on the subject? You assume that I'm not and you would be correct even though you have no evidence to prove that I'm not.

Like lacktheknack said, the odds of him actually having PTSD-like reaction from simply watching a trailer that reminded him of one of his old mangas is absurdly low. Again, what is MUCH more feasible is that he is trying to garner sympathy by using PTSD as a sort of short hand for tragic victim OR, and I grant him this benefit of the doubt, he is unfamiliar with the connotation which comes with the word or was mistranslated, as that seems more likely from my rather optimistic viewpoint than someone really trying to claim they experienced PTSD from an anime trailer.

Don't believe everything people say.

this Ooshima person sounds like an asshat.

I recommend Ooshima actually watches Kill la Kill before making such a serious claim. There are many anime/manga that use of the same tropes and cliches as each other while still different enough not to be called a plagiarization. I have not seen Kill la Kill or read this his manga but I know claiming Plagiarism based off a trailer makes one sound like an asshat.

lacktheknack:

It is not "just as likely" and to say it is is to completely fail at both probability and basic human psychology.

Suffering genuine PTSD symptoms because someone makes a similar product as you is an unusual (and pathetic, I maintain) situation with literally no comparable examples that I can think of.

Being a jackass to make a point, however, is VERY common and I can think of hundreds of examples off my Facebook wall alone.

From that alone, no, I can feel VERY safe thinking that he's being a jackass to make a point. Heck, I'd put my life's savings on it.

And there you go emphasizing the trailer aspect instead of the stealing aspect again.

Also, you assume that extreme stress and anxiety related symptoms follow a clear logic, when in fact they rarely do.

Even if we assume that he doesn't have PTSD, there are numerous other explanations, none of which count for hyperbole or "being a jackass." Like, translation issues, differences in language and cultural expressions or even just efficiency in writing. I.e, he could either draw up an inconvenient and perhaps uncomfortably intimate explanation of each symptom for the world to see, OR he could use a shorthand that is similar to what he's experiencing to save time and effort and still get his message across.

I find it troubling that so many people are so anxious to have an opinion that they are ready to immediately villify someone before even trying to consider the situation.

SacremPyrobolum:

And you know soooooo much more about it I'm sure.

You talk a lot about not jumping to conclusions. How the hell do you know that I'm not an authority on the subject? You assume that I'm not and you would be correct even though you have no evidence to prove that I'm not.

For one, you make a lot of assumptions based on non-existing and incorrect information.
However, if you are an authority on the subject you make a fine job of hiding it. Or if you actually do know the man, feel free to speak up.

Like lacktheknack said, the odds of him actually having PTSD-like reaction from simply watching a trailer that reminded him of one of his old mangas is absurdly low. Again, what is MUCH more feasible is that he is trying to garner sympathy by using PTSD as a sort of short hand for tragic victim OR, and I grant him this benefit of the doubt, he is unfamiliar with the connotation which comes with the word or was mistranslated, as that seems more likely from my rather optimistic viewpoint than someone really trying to claim they experienced PTSD from an anime trailer.

Considering that severe panic attacks can be triggered by nothing, how is it unlikely that an episode is triggered by an extremely personal thing?

Don't believe everything people say.

I don't, which is why I'm writing in this thread.

Don't infer intent in what people say where there is none.

Well this is the part where I was going to reference an 80's movie featuring a High School run by an oppressive Student council, I couldn't quite find the one I was looking for so here's a scene from "Better Off Dead"

Quiet Stranger:
My girlfriend actually has PTSD and after reading his comments, now I'm pissed off. What an ignorant silly butt to claim he has feelings similar to PTSD after watching a trailer.

Good lord, so many people getting offended by someone feeling bad about thinking they've been ripped off. Most artists take their work pretty seriously, so to them, thinking their creative identity has essentially been hijacked is pretty stressful. Remember, stress is relative.

Further, the article doesn't say he claimed to have PTSD, it says he experienced symptoms similar to PTSD. What might those symptoms be, none of you ask because you'd rather bash the guy for being overly dramatic? Let's find out:

WebMD:
Reliving: People with PTSD repeatedly relive the ordeal through thoughts and memories of the trauma. These may include flashbacks, hallucinations, and nightmares. They also may feel great distress when certain things remind them of the trauma, such as the anniversary date of the event.

Avoiding: The person may avoid people, places, thoughts, or situations that may remind him or her of the trauma. This can lead to feelings of detachment and isolation from family and friends, as well as a loss of interest in activities that the person once enjoyed.

Increased arousal: These include excessive emotions; problems relating to others, including feeling or showing affection; difficulty falling or staying asleep; irritability; outbursts of anger; difficulty concentrating; and being "jumpy" or easily startled. The person may also suffer physical symptoms, such as increased blood pressure and heart rate, rapid breathing, muscle tension, nausea, and diarrhea.

Looking over that list, the idea of experiencing those kinds of symptoms after seeing someone become super popular by taking my ideas seems pretty plausible, if I were someone doing that kind of thing professionally and hadn't achieved the same level of success when I tried it myself. Is it bombastic to actually describe it as "symptoms of PTSD?" Arguably, sure, but that's no reason to give the guy shit for being stressed out. To us this is just another argument on the internet; to Ooshima it's serious business (not used sarcastically for once).

I have to admit I almost experienced a bit of PTSD upon reading this, simply because it traumatizes me with the sheer stupidity of the claim.

While I haven't been following anime much over the last several years for a number of reasons, including severe burn out. I am one of those people who can truthfully say I was "into anime, before it was cool in the US, even in the geek set", I will also probably retain some interest in it despite the cycling of it's popularity until I die.

One thing just about anyone should be able to tell you is that the idea of huge, elaborate, boarding schools where the student council somehow manages to wind up wielding more power than most national leaders, is an ancient trope, as is the student council being the bad guys and it's leaders needing to be confronted for some slight/murder/crime/etc. The "boarding school" is popular because it's a way of generally removing adults and family attachments mostly from
the picture, allowing for a greater suspension of disbelief in having an entirely (or almost entirely) young cast which matches the primary target of a tween/teen audience.

Unless there is more to this case than what we're seeing reported, you could argue everyone has been plagerizing everyone else for decades, though really I see it as being more a matter of inspiration in what has always been a fairly incestuous community of artists and studios. At one time I used to follow things seriously enough to real translated periodicals about who was working with who and what collaberations were happening and sponsored by which studio. In general it seems like it would be a headache for anyone to claim ownership of almost anything on an "Intellectual Property" type level, which is in part why I suspect some studios and creators have gotten so draconian in defending their specific art designs since it's one of the few things that can be considered concrete.

Based on what was said here, you could probably argue that both of these guys wind up plagerizing "Revolutionary Girl Utena" which probably predates both works by a substantial margin, and most importantly was contracted to be shown in several different countries, giving it the all important documentation (who has what first isn't as important as the first person to have the idea legally recognized). Of course that's weak in of itself because those tropes were around long before Utena.

Oh sure, in the actual details neither show is much like Utena at all, but the details being mentioned are. I mean we have a surrealistic school isolated from just about everything else that seems to make most cities look small. One small "hidden" area of it is apparently larger enough to have a ginormous staircase/elevator bordering on a space elevator that leads to a platform with an inverted castle above it (though the finale reveals this is actually the result of the principals' personal holodeck-type technology... but well... trying to make sense out of this particular series will fry your brain as it was intended to be surreal and metaphorical from the get go). We have plotlines in this show with the personal mansion-housing of some students is shown to have burned down leading to vengeful ghosts, horses and race cars moving through the halls at various points, and all kinds of other huge scale insanity. The student council are the apparent bad guys for 99% of it and seem to be involved in some kind of plot to destroy the world for lulz, and are indeed shown to have godlike power in regulating other students in terms of assigning housing and such, a point which comes up when the title character makes enemies of them and sees her status varying greatly depending on whether or not she has control of the "Rose Bride" at any given point.

In short it's nothing at all like "Kill La Kill"... but it matches the points being disputed. :)

Unless more news comes up clarifying this, I'd pretty much just ignore it. Sounds like some Japanese creator on the outs trying to get some quick attention.

Cybylt:

likalaruku:
I've been reading manga since the 90s. I can't even beging to tell you how many times I've felt like I've already read something before. It's all large collections of tropes that imitate eachother. For example:

*Dragonball Z + Yu Yu Hakusho = Hunter x Hunter.
*Hunter x Hunter + .hack// + Diabolo = GetBackers.
*Hunter x Hunter + food porn = Toriko.
*Slayers + gender swap = Gokudo & Orphan Revenge.
*Slayers + ecchi = Dragon Half.
*Petshop of Horrors + Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro = Black Butler.
*Legal Drug - CLAMP + guns & smoking = Wild Adapter.
*Marmalade Boy + Chou Gals = Peach Girl.
*Fist of the North Star + Devilman = Zero Apocalypse.
*Gunsmith Cats + outer space = Dirty Pair & Project A-Ko Battle Versus.
*Cutie Honey + violence = Devilman Woman.
*Yu-Gi-Oh + Pretear = Card Captor Sakura.
*DNA 2 - ecchi + homoerotic tension = DNAngel.
*Azumanga Daioh + all boy's school = Sukigake Cramortie High.
*Sukigake Cramortie High + Great Teacher Onizuka - Onizuka = Gukosen.
*Kino no Tabi + gender swap = King of Bandit Jing (moreso in the anime version).

Pretty much. Anime's been getting increasingly insular since the later 90's, on top of a lot of stuff being very formulaic. So I don't get why this guy is crying foul in an industry where "genre" pretty much means almost exactly the same show.

It's not like he made something out of the box or original in the first place either. As others pointed out, Utena was the ur-example of this particular subgenre and both Noise and KlK have a lot in common with it.

Hell you don't see Akira Toriyama bitching that Bleach and Naruto are plagiarizing Dragon Ball or DBZ.
You don't hear about Go Nagai or Ken Ishikawa claiming PTSD after watching Gundam, Eva, or a Magical Girl show. I mean, Ishikawa isn't going to be claiming much of anything what with being dead, but still.

Lol, yeah I wrote a response mentioning Utena myself before I realized how many other fans were thinking exactly the same thing. Kind of regret writing my previous post now. Truthfully though I don't think Utena invented a lot of those tropes, it just helped to popularize them.

As far as the specific list quoted above goes, it makes the point, but has some of the order wrong. I also believe "Devilman" (and Devilman Woman) were done/created by Go Ngai, who also had the rights to the Cutie Honey, he didn't invent the character but did relaunch it in the 1990s as the "new" Cutie Honey, which he also crossed over with some of his own work (the new Honey's supporting cast were pretty much from his "Yashabiri" family anime... I think I have the name right, it's been a long time, and Grandpa Danbai can be seen flying by in the backround in a scene from Kekko Kamen as well... he seemed to enjoy crossing over his own work in weird ways). "The Dirty Pair" was originally a set of novels (and by that I don't mean Manga) if I remember, that happened to later get adapted into visual mediums. The "Project A-Ko Vs." series (Blue Side, Grey Side) actually spoofed a number of other animes including "The Dirty Pair" if I remember, but then again such references were arguably always the point of A-ko from the very beginning.

Korolev:
Even if it is Plagarism, good luck proving it. A lot creative works borrow from each other - there's very little new under the sun and if we crucified every single new bit of media that resembled something else, we'd be crucifying darn near everything.

I've never seen Kill La Kill and I've never read whatever Manga Ooshima claims it rips off of, but I've watched a lot of movies and I've read a lot of books and the thing Ooshima is complaining about - taking the basic premise and themes from a work of fiction and using parts of them to make a new work of art - is INCREDIBLY common. As common as dishwater.

Is Pacific Rim "plagiarizing" Evangelion? Are The Hunger Games "plagiarizing" Battle Royale? Is the recent Tomb Raider game "Plagiarizing" the Uncharted games? Are the Uncharted Games "plagiarizing" from the older tomb raider games?

Ooshima might be right that the creators of Kill la Kill saw his earlier work and decided to make something similar, but that is NOT plagiarism. At the very worst it's creatively bankrupt, but not evil and in reality it's usually a pretty standard, normal thing that artists do. Many, many great books, films, games and shows have used earlier works to inspire them.

As I said in another post the whole anime industry seems to be fairly incestuous to begin with. If I had to guess the guy making the complaints is probably upset over "Kill La Kill" because it's done by people he worked with, perhaps off the record, and he feels they are stealing his ideas. With something this basic it would be insane (as I've explained at great length) but there might be more to the story. If he plans to take this to court, it makes a degree of sense that he wouldn't be putting all his cards out in the public eye at this stage.

Inspiration and plagiarism are always a touchy subject in creative fields, especially ones that start out being very open, but then gradually become ruthlessly corporate with everyone hoarding every IP they can in order to get an edge over the competition. The increasing international success of anime seems to have actually made it a lot less pleasant of a business than it was a couple decades ago.

I'll also say that giant robots were around a long time before Evangelion, to really plagiarize that you'd basically need to use the gimmick of a living, organic, war machine being disguised as a robot, which is actually being piloted by a guy sitting in a cybernetic implant.... that's the "twist" that actually makes Evangelion unique, and as such it would actually be pretty defensible. People simply linking to machines and piloting them was around long before Evangelion. Indeed one of the reasons the term "mecha" exists is because originally it was intended to differentiate between a war machine simply piloted by someone, and one that the pilot merges with. The idea being that cybernetics is when you replace yourself with machines, where mecha is a method of enhancing yourself with machines using a temporary interface to become one with it. Cyberpunk fiction used to get into this difference, and it was a key concept in things like the original "Bubblegum Crisis" (going by expanded materials), the idea being that the Knight Sabers were so much better than the AD police, because they basically blended with their machines and they became an extension of their bodies when they used their suits, as opposed to the police mech pilots who were basically driving a humanoid car. RPGs like "Shadowrun" and "Cyberpunk" also used versions of this, albeit more based on the writings of western Cyberpunk writers to a similar effect, with "Riggers" basically using cybernetics to become one with their vehicles. "Pacific Rim" actually has more to worry about from other giant robot franchises (western and Japanese) than Evangelion if someone actually wanted to pursue it... which I doubt anyone will, because it might as well be public domain at this point.

When it comes to "Battle Royale" and "The Hunger Games" you might as well bring "Lord Of The Flies", "The Running Man", and "The Long Walk" (I think that was the name of it) into it, two of the three which happen to be Steven King's works I believe, and it occurred to me a while ago that he would be able to sue. "The Long Walk" being a story about a future in which the government forces a bunch of kids to walk and when they stumble or cannot go any further they shoot them, the survivor at the end pretty much gets massive rewards, it's a compulsory thing if I remember done for largely the same reasons as "The Hunger Games" or "Battle Royale". It's like someone took that premise, combined it with "The Running Man" to make it more political as opposed to being about the media, and turned it into a story (in "The Running Man" there were political overtones, but one thing you might remember in both the story and the movie... they weren't supposed to use political/military prisoners specifically because of what happened in the story when they did it anyway for ratings).

"Tomb Raider", "Uncharted" and their ilk are more or less safe. They are largely ripping off "Indiana Jones" which itself was ripping off tropes from vintage 30 and 40s era adventure stories. The ironic thing is that they set out to make "Indy" politically correct by having him recovering treasure for museums. Originally most of the similar pulp adventurers did it largely for their own reasons, like Lara or Nathan. In a pulp story for example some adventurer might say go heading out in the jungles to find a golden idol so he could sell it, or to just display in his trophy room (being already rich) to show off how awesome an adventurer they were. It really wasn't much about respect for cultures, or shared global history. The ironic thing is that at the time, the places that inspired these stories and had the real adventurers running around didn't much care either. One of the reasons why I have so little respect for restoring treasures to their "rightful" owners in Egypt and stuff, when in reality these nations were literally jumping all over each other to attract treasure hunting expeditions and such so they could make money off of them. I find a certain degree of irony in nations demanding things back, after they gladly took the money and assisted with the looting at the time... now they want the gold too? I've always kind of wanted to see some of these nations hit with a bill (adjusted for inflation and hefty interests) for the expenses of the expeditions that found this stuff before they can get anything back... but I'm getting off track more than usual. :)

None of this matters of course, I'm just rambling. I pretty much agree with you that when it comes to some things your just not going to come up with fair ownership of the idea at this point.

Here: An anime about an MMO that involves putting on headgear that, if you die in the game, serious bad stuff happens to you in real life.
Now, Did I just describe Sword Art Online or .Hack//?

Basically my point is, A lot of anime share a lot of similarities, Mr. Mangaka who I am sure is reading this post.

likalaruku:
I've been reading manga since the 90s. I can't even beging to tell you how many times I've felt like I've already read something before. It's all large collections of tropes that imitate eachother. For example:

*Dragonball Z + Yu Yu Hakusho = Hunter x Hunter.
*Hunter x Hunter + .hack// + Diabolo = GetBackers.
*Hunter x Hunter + food porn = Toriko.
*Slayers + gender swap = Gokudo & Orphan Revenge.
*Slayers + ecchi = Dragon Half.
*Petshop of Horrors + Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro = Black Butler.
*Legal Drug - CLAMP + guns & smoking = Wild Adapter.
*Marmalade Boy + Chou Gals = Peach Girl.
*Fist of the North Star + Devilman = Zero Apocalypse.
*Gunsmith Cats + outer space = Dirty Pair & Project A-Ko Battle Versus.
*Cutie Honey + violence = Devilman Woman.
*Yu-Gi-Oh + Pretear = Card Captor Sakura.
*DNA 2 - ecchi + homoerotic tension = DNAngel.
*Azumanga Daioh + all boy's school = Sukigake Cramortie High.
*Sukigake Cramortie High + Great Teacher Onizuka - Onizuka = Gukosen.
*Kino no Tabi + gender swap = King of Bandit Jing (moreso in the anime version).

I dont disagree but having been there at the time I recalled A-KO, including Battle predating gunsmithcats and according to the wiki it does by a year or so.

I hear where he's coming from, but I don't think its plagarism. Its clear enough to me that KLK takes influences from those old 70/80's anime like Sukeban Deka, Kekkou Kamen, Project A-ko, Utena etc. When I first watched a few eps of KLK, the first thing I thought of was Project A-Ko, the very anime I purchased at the age of 12, that got me into anime so much.

Ooshima should do the smart thing and watch a few episodes of KLK, perhaps then judge it with such strong notes of ire.

Studio Trigger will state their influences for KLK and all of this will blow away. For Ooshima to think its just him alone is also reaching a bit. Trailers can also be misleading.

Oh anime, this is what happens when you lack originality and go all Ouroborous on yourself. Just as well KLK is doing well because the anime industry needs a hit now and then.

Had a quick Google image search to compare as I don't really care about either (read; hadn't heard of until today)and can safely say the only similarities between the two shows is also shared with a load of other random anime and other mangas for years past, hell the example the anime news network people show looks like a character from Bleach, which im sure looks like 30 other characters from a million different anime and manga's i haven't read.

Oh and PTSD? oh Fack off. Call me when you wake up crying and don't know why.

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