Trolls Will Probably Troll Whether Online or Offline

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Therumancer:
-incredibly long post of awesomeness-

Okay, I'm saving this. Unfortunately, I wish more places had this sort of tolerance and understanding of what the nature of "Trolling" is about.

Trolling is an artform, and it can be quite beautiful in the hands of a master (And quite shite in the hands of an idiot or amateur)

So these guys are sadists in real life, huh?


That's great, right?

Yuuki:
I'm failing to see how trolling would even work in real life. They would just be called "pranks" or amount to harassment/assault with no way to hide.

Trolling is when someone attempts to provoke an emotional reaction from someone using merely words/images online...that's why it took off, because it's an easy thing to do for a big "reward".
It would never work in real life because 1) it's not the internet and 2) It would be impossible to troll people outside someone you can physically reach.

It's like people didn't even think things through lol, but I guess that's usually the case with knee-jerk reactions to them pesky modern internet gaming kids.

Further evidence to that report being bullshit is that I've trolled people (lightly) in games and forums, and my friends tell me that I'm not usually a sadistic psycho.

To quote a wise man:

image

Trolling exists in real world. it is often mislabeled and often thingsl ike bullying is mislabeled as trolling. then again most of what we call trolling on the internet isnt actually trolling.
and IT DOES WORK in real life. yes its harder due to slower acess in physical world, but it exists and its nothing new.

Also your theory is bonkers. If a person is an idiot on the internet he is also an idiot in real life. The only difference is that on real life he has to hide it because there still are a lot of bigger idiots that will punch anyone that disagrees with him. you can troll your boss at work even if you want to. you can on the internet. that "normal person" on the image isnt actually normal. what the image should say is "pretends to look normal in real world".
people who are bad in real life will be bad in games and people who are good in real life will be good in games. your personality doesnt change just becasue you got to the internet. the difference is your no longer need to hide it in fear of being beat up.

Fsyco:
Speaking as a sadistic troll, I can confirm that the so-called 'GIFT' has some truth to it. A seemingly-normal person might have deep sadistic tendencies, but might also find it difficult to express them in real life because that's frowned upon in society, and having someone yell at you for realsies is stressful. Being on the Internet removes the societal constraint, since there isn't another person physically there. Of course that's also why you get perfectly normal people acting like asshats, since nobody is around to actually ostracize them for their unchecked behavior.

This guy gets it!

Therumancer:
snip

Considering that the whole point of trolling is to make others laugh while the person being trolled is unaware, it surely needs positive reaction from other community members.

Capcha: can't have nice things
no, we cant.

Caramel Frappe:

Why is it that people feel it's okay to troll on the internet? I know mostly because there's no consequence and most find it funny or appealing since everyone else is doing it (in their logical thinking) but.... why do they suddenly feel it's okay to?

To me, these people aren't considering what's right or wrong. In real life, since there are consequences... even actions to a moiety's degree can lead to dire issues. With the internet, people see all sorts of things and one may go, "Oh wow. That's hilarious! I could never laugh at people in real life for getting screwed over but it seems everyone else in the comments is flat out losing it here! I like this!" and suddenly it drives them to release what they've suppressed.
<...>
I would NEVER want to hurt an animal, or make a person feel bad, or jack up a person's relationship.

This applies to the internet in a sense.

I wouldn't want to post in someone's blog about a funeral that whoever died deserved to die for whatever reason. I wouldn't go posting in a video done by Anita that I would rape her (of all things too...) and I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to encourage a depressed human being that they should just off themselves.
<....>
Anyhow, I honestly think the best method is to ignore the trolls. Ignoring them usually drives them mad because then the trolls will attempt to get crazier/awful with whatever attempts until they'r just bored. Like for example, in the Know Your Meme section, some users post really disgusting things just to get reactions out of people. Yet, when no one downvotes or comments... they SPAM the gallery until they're banned. Then they just complain on other websites and seek assistance in attacking the website... only to fail.

It seems more like they want attention, but again I could be wrong. Most trolls get encouragement by others regardless if it's praise or dislike from the users who can't stand the troll. I don't even like calling trolls 'trolls' because it sounds mean. I'd rather just call them trouble makers but meh that could be seen just as worse. Not all trolling is bad however, because some trolling is quite funny... if done right and not harming anyone in anyway. Even things that would seem disturbing or just weird isn't really trolling unless it's purposely done to inflict harm or cause conflict towards a person or group.

because these people think its ok to troll (internet or no internet) and the reason they do not do it in real life is from fear of consequences. they dont think its ok to troll on the internet only.

Whats right or wrong isnt set in stone. people have different conceptions of right and wrong. for example there was a case where rapists thought it was right way to make a wife. Thats what he was taught by his religion. he believed he was doing the right thing. doing something we dont like does not mean we are nto thinking about right or wrong. Now thinknig about consequences is another thing, but we dont think of consequences, its just that on the internet there arent any.

<...>
And do you. Do you hurt animals or make people feel bad, on the internet or otherwise? From what i saw from your previuos posts - you dont. so your personality is consistent. there are however people that WANT to make others feel bad, but cannot do that in real life because of risk/reward due to consequences. meanwhile on the internet the rules are different.
You do realize that people are different, and as such have different wants, and some of those may include hurting others. After all, criminals exist.
<....>
The only way to defeat real trolls is ignoring them. trolls exist for attention. the problem is, that we also call plenty of other internet behavior trolling. actual trolling is pretty harmless, but we also lump bullying, assholes, malicion and other internet people we dont like under trolling because its convenient to label and hate them. What we fail to realize is that by doing so we are bullying them instead.

Although online bullies may be sadists in real life, many of them are not extroverted enough to express it in person. In other words, the vast majority of online trolls probably lack the balls to troll IRL.

BigTuk:
Actually it's not just annonymity, it's annonymity + not being within range of face punching or nut kicking. People are totallydifferent when they think they won't be caught and be won't be punished. When technology invents a way to deliver swift kicks to the nutz via the internet, or punches to the boobs... then trolls will shut up. Get to work scientists.!

Pretty much this^. It's true, it's not the trait of a sociopath or sadist to be a dick. As much as people might not want to admit it, the sole thing that keeps most people from being dicks to each other is the fear of punishment of some sort if they do. While there are plenty of people one could call trolls in real life (often called bullies or just plain dicks) they are that way either because they don't care about punishment or think they can get away with it, but if these people didn't have the threat of punishment hanging over their heads there would be far more. It's pretty much the same thing with most crimes, if they could get away with stealing for instance most of the people on the planet would be stealing everything that wasn't nailed down as a matter of course, and without the law to prevent it in the first place we wouldn't think it was wrong to do so. For trolls the internet provides an environment where they can be dicks to everybody and the only thing they have to fear is being banned from whatever forum they choose to do it in, which isn't much of a deterrent since they can just go somewhere else and pick up where they left off, and there's plenty of websites who don't give a rat's ass if they do to begin with.

Fsyco:
Speaking as a sadistic troll,

Your not a troll... your the Witchfinder General!

But seriously, trolls troll and if you give me a warning for using the word troll escapist, I'll....

putowtin:

Fsyco:
Speaking as a sadistic troll,

Your not a troll... your the Witchfinder General!

Close enough. I'm the Paedofinder General from Monkey Dust. Or my avatar is, anyway.

Strazdas:

Considering that the whole point of trolling is to make others laugh while the person being trolled is unaware, it surely needs positive reaction from other community members.

That's not necessarily the -whole- point. Sure, positive reactions from people you know are welcome and certainly encouraging, but part of it is that it just feels good to make other people upset. It's power over others. You did a thing and got a major emotional reaction; you've proven that you have some power over that person. Their emotional well-being is in your hands. And power is quite intoxicating.

Yuuki:
I'm failing to see how trolling would even work in real life. They would just be called "pranks" or amount to harassment/assault with no way to hide.

Pathological Liars
Rush Limbaugh, and Most of Fox News - a lot of what they say is to deliberately anger democrats.
Nancy Grace - Arguably trolled a women into committing suicide.
Andy Kaufman - King of all Trolls, if you watch man on the moon and say that isn't trolling then you're probably trolling.

Do you need more real world examples?

Fsyco:

That's not necessarily the -whole- point. Sure, positive reactions from people you know are welcome and certainly encouraging, but part of it is that it just feels good to make other people upset. It's power over others. You did a thing and got a major emotional reaction; you've proven that you have some power over that person. Their emotional well-being is in your hands. And power is quite intoxicating.

No. if you are doing it to make people upset you are not trolling. you are beign an asshole. trolling is making somone look funny without that person realizing it. yes, many people have mislabeled a lot of things as trolling, just like you did, that does not make it become trolling though.

Strazdas:

Fsyco:

That's not necessarily the -whole- point. Sure, positive reactions from people you know are welcome and certainly encouraging, but part of it is that it just feels good to make other people upset. It's power over others. You did a thing and got a major emotional reaction; you've proven that you have some power over that person. Their emotional well-being is in your hands. And power is quite intoxicating.

No. if you are doing it to make people upset you are not trolling. you are beign an asshole. trolling is making somone look funny without that person realizing it. yes, many people have mislabeled a lot of things as trolling, just like you did, that does not make it become trolling though.

I think our definitions of 'trolling' are mis-aligned, then. I've always interpreted it as "deliberately fucking with people". That's the definition that's generally accepted in the 4Chan community, anyway. Do you have some kind of definitive proof otherwise? Cause I've never, ever heard anyone define 'trolling' so narrowly. The Oxford Dictionary lists 'troll' as a verb to 'submit a deliberately provocative posting to an online message board with the aim of inciting an angry response.' So. Doing it entirely for your own amusement is equally as valid as doing it to impress friends.

Fsyco:

Strazdas:

Fsyco:

That's not necessarily the -whole- point. Sure, positive reactions from people you know are welcome and certainly encouraging, but part of it is that it just feels good to make other people upset. It's power over others. You did a thing and got a major emotional reaction; you've proven that you have some power over that person. Their emotional well-being is in your hands. And power is quite intoxicating.

No. if you are doing it to make people upset you are not trolling. you are beign an asshole. trolling is making somone look funny without that person realizing it. yes, many people have mislabeled a lot of things as trolling, just like you did, that does not make it become trolling though.

I think our definitions of 'trolling' are mis-aligned, then. I've always interpreted it as "deliberately fucking with people". That's the definition that's generally accepted in the 4Chan community, anyway. Do you have some kind of definitive proof otherwise? Cause I've never, ever heard anyone define 'trolling' so narrowly. The Oxford Dictionary lists 'troll' as a verb to 'submit a deliberately provocative posting to an online message board with the aim of inciting an angry response.' So. Doing it entirely for your own amusement is equally as valid as doing it to impress friends.

To be honest, most people wouldnt know a real troll from an asshole, so i cant fault you there. not everyone was around and into it when trolling on the internet was born, add to that a large amount of people seeking to shift blame and label things by a word they heard somewhere. then there is plenty of people who claim they are trolling when they are just being assholes because that somehow absolves them of responsibility in thier mind, and we got this massive misconception.
The dictionary also lists "miracle" as "something unlikely" because people kept misusing that word to the point where it started dominating. Same goes with gay (original meaning - happy) and fag (original meaning - a wooden stick). I guess language change caught up with trolling as well. As if "nuculer" (instead of nuclear) wasnt a low blow enough.

Strazdas:

Fsyco:

Strazdas:

No. if you are doing it to make people upset you are not trolling. you are beign an asshole. trolling is making somone look funny without that person realizing it. yes, many people have mislabeled a lot of things as trolling, just like you did, that does not make it become trolling though.

I think our definitions of 'trolling' are mis-aligned, then. I've always interpreted it as "deliberately fucking with people". That's the definition that's generally accepted in the 4Chan community, anyway. Do you have some kind of definitive proof otherwise? Cause I've never, ever heard anyone define 'trolling' so narrowly. The Oxford Dictionary lists 'troll' as a verb to 'submit a deliberately provocative posting to an online message board with the aim of inciting an angry response.' So. Doing it entirely for your own amusement is equally as valid as doing it to impress friends.

To be honest, most people wouldnt know a real troll from an asshole, so i cant fault you there. not everyone was around and into it when trolling on the internet was born, add to that a large amount of people seeking to shift blame and label things by a word they heard somewhere. then there is plenty of people who claim they are trolling when they are just being assholes because that somehow absolves them of responsibility in thier mind, and we got this massive misconception.
The dictionary also lists "miracle" as "something unlikely" because people kept misusing that word to the point where it started dominating. Same goes with gay (original meaning - happy) and fag (original meaning - a wooden stick). I guess language change caught up with trolling as well. As if "nuculer" (instead of nuclear) wasnt a low blow enough.

Well, English is a living language. Words change meaning over time. Hell, 'troll' originally meant 'strolling'. Also it refers to mythical beasts. 'Miracle' -is- often used to describe an unlikely positive event. And, well, 'gay' and 'fag' now mean the things that people say that they mean.

Also, I'm pretty sure nobody says 'I'm trolling' to absolve themselves of responsibility. I never do. Mostly, you tell somebody that you're trolling or are a troll so that they'll be afraid of you and that everyone will know what a big bad meanie you are. Why? People hate and fear trolls, and hate and fear are power. You do it, if anything, to affirm how powerful you are, not to absolve yourself of it. And, as I've previously mentioned, sadists LOVE power. No really. I'd bathe in the stuff if I could.

Fsyco:

Well, English is a living language. Words change meaning over time. Hell, 'troll' originally meant 'strolling'. Also it refers to mythical beasts. 'Miracle' -is- often used to describe an unlikely positive event. And, well, 'gay' and 'fag' now mean the things that people say that they mean.

Also, I'm pretty sure nobody says 'I'm trolling' to absolve themselves of responsibility. I never do. Mostly, you tell somebody that you're trolling or are a troll so that they'll be afraid of you and that everyone will know what a big bad meanie you are. Why? People hate and fear trolls, and hate and fear are power. You do it, if anything, to affirm how powerful you are, not to absolve yourself of it. And, as I've previously mentioned, sadists LOVE power. No really. I'd bathe in the stuff if I could.

yeah, i just hate when i have to change my language based on this when it looks ridiculous whne you knew the original meaning. Its like all those people who dont know what "nerd" means and complain about how people act. Heck, BOB actually corrected himself on what nerd means in his videos because in previuos ones he was talking nonesense.

Just because you do not do it does not mean nobody does. trolling is not as bad as being an asshole in public eyes, therefore people will think people will just laugh and leave him alone. Its the whole "i insulted you but i was only joking so its not an insult" argument.
People do hate trolls but im not aware of anyone fearing them unless we talk about the mythological creatures that live under bridges (wait, bums are trolls?). why would you fear a troll?

Strazdas:

Fsyco:

That's not necessarily the -whole- point. Sure, positive reactions from people you know are welcome and certainly encouraging, but part of it is that it just feels good to make other people upset. It's power over others. You did a thing and got a major emotional reaction; you've proven that you have some power over that person. Their emotional well-being is in your hands. And power is quite intoxicating.

No. if you are doing it to make people upset you are not trolling. you are beign an asshole. trolling is making somone look funny without that person realizing it. yes, many people have mislabeled a lot of things as trolling, just like you did, that does not make it become trolling though.

That's not how language works. If a lot of people are "mislabeling" a word then you're the one mislabeling the word. Not them. Language is one of the most democratic processes known to man. The definition of a word is always majority rule. I'd point you to the urban dictionary, but google works just as well.

Trolling Definition 2
"submit a deliberately provocative posting to an online message board with the aim of inciting an angry response."

The top Urban Dictionary definition also is similar, but credits the internet which is what the article was about.

Strazdas:

Fsyco:

Well, English is a living language. Words change meaning over time. Hell, 'troll' originally meant 'strolling'. Also it refers to mythical beasts. 'Miracle' -is- often used to describe an unlikely positive event. And, well, 'gay' and 'fag' now mean the things that people say that they mean.

Also, I'm pretty sure nobody says 'I'm trolling' to absolve themselves of responsibility. I never do. Mostly, you tell somebody that you're trolling or are a troll so that they'll be afraid of you and that everyone will know what a big bad meanie you are. Why? People hate and fear trolls, and hate and fear are power. You do it, if anything, to affirm how powerful you are, not to absolve yourself of it. And, as I've previously mentioned, sadists LOVE power. No really. I'd bathe in the stuff if I could.

yeah, i just hate when i have to change my language based on this when it looks ridiculous whne you knew the original meaning. Its like all those people who dont know what "nerd" means and complain about how people act. Heck, BOB actually corrected himself on what nerd means in his videos because in previuos ones he was talking nonesense.

Just because you do not do it does not mean nobody does. trolling is not as bad as being an asshole in public eyes, therefore people will think people will just laugh and leave him alone. Its the whole "i insulted you but i was only joking so its not an insult" argument.
People do hate trolls but im not aware of anyone fearing them unless we talk about the mythological creatures that live under bridges (wait, bums are trolls?). why would you fear a troll?

Y'know, mate, for someone who claims to be a defender of the English language, you've got quite a few typos, spelling mistakes, and general lack of grammar. Kinda hurts your credibility. I'm still not sure why you're arguing this point, though, since 'troll' is pretty synonymous with 'sadistic asshole' everywhere I've been.

medv4380:
That's not how language works. If a lot of people are "mislabeling" a word then you're the one mislabeling the word. Not them. Language is one of the most democratic processes known to man. The definition of a word is always majority rule. I'd point you to the urban dictionary, but google works just as well.

Trolling Definition 2
"submit a deliberately provocative posting to an online message board with the aim of inciting an angry response."

The top Urban Dictionary definition also is similar, but credits the internet which is what the article was about.

See, this guy gets it. Languages change over time, and nobody complains about how 'plumbing' is no longer spelled 'plumming' (fun fact, alot of silent letters were added to words by scholars who wanted to remind everyone of their Latin roots.) That would just be silly.

And of course people are afraid of trolls. A dedicated, skilled troll can absolutely ruin your day. Like those people that raid the memorial Facebook pages of suicide victims. Or people who engage in mass DDoS attacks. Fox News ran that whole scare-tactic video segment about 'Hackers on Steroids', which was designed to generate fear. Maybe the more internet-savvy person isn't so afraid of the big bad troll, and it isn't really a lurking-boogeyman type of fear, but it's still a fear.

medv4380:
That's not how language works. If a lot of people are "mislabeling" a word then you're the one mislabeling the word. Not them. Language is one of the most democratic processes known to man. The definition of a word is always majority rule. I'd point you to the urban dictionary, but google works just as well.

Trolling Definition 2
"submit a deliberately provocative posting to an online message board with the aim of inciting an angry response."

The top Urban Dictionary definition also is similar, but credits the internet which is what the article was about.

This is true and i understand your point. The problem arrises when language change happens quickly. For example everyone uses one definition of the word. then few people decided to use it differently. then suddenly in a few years time almost everyone started using it differently. People who were using it before now feels like shit because they have to re-learn language.
This is especially hitting home when the word that used to describe you now describes a completely different demography and you are just lumped with them because of that word.

Fsyco:

Y'know, mate, for someone who claims to be a defender of the English language, you've got quite a few typos, spelling mistakes, and general lack of grammar. Kinda hurts your credibility. I'm still not sure why you're arguing this point, though, since 'troll' is pretty synonymous with 'sadistic asshole' everywhere I've been.

English is only a second language to me, and i am far from perfect at it. I dont know if i can be caleld a defender of the language altrough i do think its a great and beatiful language and really one built the way languages should be built - as little BS as possible. (for example my language has 9 extra letters, ALL of them are variations of same standart letters, for example ą or ū. and they convolute it beyond belief, but im ranting now)
Now i dont know what kind of places you visit, i usually meet people who consider trolls akin to pranksters. Then again, some people do hate pranksters too.

And of course people are afraid of trolls. A dedicated, skilled troll can absolutely ruin your day. Like those people that raid the memorial Facebook pages of suicide victims. Or people who engage in mass DDoS attacks. Fox News ran that whole scare-tactic video segment about 'Hackers on Steroids', which was designed to generate fear. Maybe the more internet-savvy person isn't so afraid of the big bad troll, and it isn't really a lurking-boogeyman type of fear, but it's still a fear.

Well if people are enacting memorial facebook pages for suiciders (why do you call them victims? if they got murdered they are victims, if they suicided thats their own doing) and taking that seriuosly then no wonder they are afraid of trolls.
Yes, a dedicated and skilled troll can ruin your day. Very few such people exists. Its a skill like programming in assembly, i would fail horribly even if i would try my best.
DDoS is a criminal offence and not trolling. Same goes for hacking. Fox news ran plenty of fearmongering segments, not like any sane person would actually start fearing because of that.

Strazdas:

medv4380:
That's not how language works. If a lot of people are "mislabeling" a word then you're the one mislabeling the word. Not them. Language is one of the most democratic processes known to man. The definition of a word is always majority rule. I'd point you to the urban dictionary, but google works just as well.

Trolling Definition 2
"submit a deliberately provocative posting to an online message board with the aim of inciting an angry response."

The top Urban Dictionary definition also is similar, but credits the internet which is what the article was about.

This is true and i understand your point. The problem arrises when language change happens quickly. For example everyone uses one definition of the word. then few people decided to use it differently. then suddenly in a few years time almost everyone started using it differently. People who were using it before now feels like shit because they have to re-learn language.
This is especially hitting home when the word that used to describe you now describes a completely different demography and you are just lumped with them because of that word.

Now you understand how my mother feels. Her middle name is Gay, and her parents were defiantly conservative religious types so it wasn't some hippy nonsense.

As for the word Trolling you should expect it to change rapidly. It's describing an activity that most people were unfamiliar with, and accurately describing all the nuanced variation can't be held in a single word. The current general description works best because now you just have to append an adjective to get the more subtle variations.

Outside of political circles, most of the worlds first acknowledged experience with trolling was with Andy Kaufman. I'd also argue that one mans comedian is another mans troll. If you watch The Daily Show it's hard to make the claim that John, and Colbert aren't regularly trolling the RNC. However, the most accepted form of Trolling is when you're trolling yourself or your "group" which is why Jews can get away with saying the most Anti-semetic Jew jokes, and Blacks can get away with saying the most vile racist black jokes. These would be Funny Trolls, or in Andy's case the Andy Troll. Arguable Andy made more people angry then he ever made people laugh, but that's what happens when your audience is just yourself.

Political Trolls are fairly common throughout history. Opposing political parties always want to say something that will make someone made because it can, when successful like when Al Gore got Bill Bradly angry, destroy your opponent.

Atheist Trolls, Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Anton Levi Satanism, only exist and call themselves what they do to make Christians mad. Nativity scenes with a flying spaghetti monster and a Santa skeleton on a cross. I'm sure Atheist think it's funny, and I'm sure Christians just get mad.

Christian Trolls, harder to pinpoint, but the in-your-face "your going to hell" street side preaching is usually done just so they can get hit so they can "claim" that they are oppressed. Protestants and Catholics Trolls also like to Troll each other. After all it gives their social group a good laugh, and the group they dislike a bit of unbridled anger.

Gamer Trolls, the system wars have always had their share of Trolls.

The general definition makes understanding the problem far easier. The more specific definition hides the meaning, and makes people believe that the Internet makes people evil. When in reality it just makes their evil actions say in the spot light. In the real world you can just Ignore the troll, turn off their mic, or move along. On the internet it says visible until it's forcibly removed. Which increases it's effect size several magnitude when compared to the real world.

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