Luftrausers Isn't About Nazis But Vlambeer Is Sorry Anyway

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Louzerman102:
I think that it needs to be mentioned that the person who complained about Nazi implications in Luftrausers has a video on Youtube complaining that there are no female players in the male only league of FIFA 2014.

That's really funny. Now tell me you're not being serious, please.

I saw this game and ultimately decided to pass on it because I wasn't sure it was for me., I've got to say, the attitude does help my future buying choices.

Wintermute:

Louzerman102:
I think that it needs to be mentioned that the person who complained about Nazi implications in Luftrausers has a video on Youtube complaining that there are no female players in the male only league of FIFA 2014.

That's really funny. Now tell me you're not being serious, please.

The Tweet:
https://twitter.com/tha_rami/status/452102051028557824

The Youtube video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFkVMM_xB7U

Also why are there no female players in the NBA? Also why are there no male players in the WNBA?

Everyone here needs to get over something. None of us were in Concentration Camps, none of us fought for Germany in the war, none of us survived the Blitz, none of us were taken prisoner on Wake Island. We're the sons, daughters, grandsons, granddaughters, great grandsons, and great granddaughters of heroes, victims, and monsters alike. If we get offended and whiny then we dishonor them all. It is to us to be more and cause peace and understanding, not to vicariously feel emotions that are not our own.

The guys who made Luftrausers are not members of the Luftwaffe. Hell, the members of the Luftwaffe weren't the men operating the death camps or making policy. Though not as horrific as the crimes committed against the Jews, Gypsies, the disabled, soviet POWs, the Polish, Gays, and anyone who might have disagreed, or even agreed but not vehemently enough with them, the Nazi Party did horrible things to their own country too.

Imagine a Nazi party bus comes by to take your 14 year old daughter on a camping trip, and a month later you get a letter from her explaining how she's pregnant because this "camp" is actually a breeding program because Hitler decided that his war of global domination and extermination will need waves upon waves of young men BRED to kill. Imagine expressing your shock and horror about this, and having your pregnant 14 year old brainwashed daughter threaten to inform the SS about your disapproval of one of the "Fuhrer's Brides" if you ever speak to or try to see her again. Imagine fighting for your country with pride for a decade... and then hearing that your father's father's father was 1/4 Jewish, and you are immediately stripped of rank and honors and are dishonorably discharged to a life where you know you will be shunned by everyone. Imagine living in constant terror that your smiling friendly neighbors might call up and inform on you if you don't inform on them first about something, because everyone, EVERYONE out there is living in terror that the Party might turn on them at the drop of a hat.

Christ Almighty, hate the Nazi party, hate Naziism, hate what abominable and incredible evil humans can inflict upon others that are 99.9% identical to themselves compared to every other form of life on the planet because of that 0.1% that's different.

But don't jump on a company that made a fun game about fast paced side scrolling aerial combat that has no ideology, no story, and even no aesthetic besides things looking sorta 16-bit German-like.

People who are offended by Nazi references should get over it.

WWII was almost a century ago, and has already been exploited for entertainment so much that the presence of Nazis in media is almost inescapable, unless you live in a bubble (or Germany, where even depicting the swastika in works of fiction is forbidden. Morons.).

Ive have played Luftrausers and quite enjoyed it and the aesthetic. Buuuuuut it does carry stereotypical German looking people and a guy who is totally not Hitler with out a mustache. That said, I'm pretty sure Not-Hitler is a bad guy. Idk the story is hard to follow with out text or voice acting.

albino boo:

Clive Howlitzer:
So we've reached the point now where developers preemptively apologize for all the thin skinned folks that are going to throw a fit over their game?

Yes because using German in title, using the SS deathshead emblem and using German uniforms isn't in anyway looking Nazis.

I am not denying the connection. I am saying, who cares? Do the game you want and don't apologize for it. If you are going to apologize for it anyway, then change it and don't make it at all.

SourMilk:
While I'll almost certainly agree that the aesthetics style is leaned all the way towards the Nazi Germany side of all things but there's really no harm done; there isn't any ideological aspects in the game other than stealing the art style. I would a liar to say that I didn't find the German military uniform aesthetically appealing when compared to the other nations at that point in time.

In this case, it's a worse version like if someone was reading the book mein kampf/Communist manifesto and then being called a Nazi/Communist as a result and even the Taliban controversy with Battlefield 3. People do need to grow-up and grow out of judging a book by it's cover.

Well their uniforms are supposed to. They had a fashion designer design their entire army. It was a show of pride at the time, just like Prussia and other nations did in history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Boss

It wasn't designed so much to fight but to show something recognizable and even appealing. Other nations slapped their uniforms together as a form of desperation. They didn't have high end fashion designers come in and do their uniforms, they did what was cheap.

Then again, to their credit there was no such thing as body armor at that time. Body armor died in WWI along with horses because of machine guns with big bullets. So there was very little to actually think about in terms of uniforms to fight in other than simple mobility. So they weren't that crazy to put form over function. Nothing would protect you at the time anyway.

Certainly can't think any other games that feature Nazi's symbolism or hitler as a boss in mecha suit

Really? The twitter activists strike again. Please do not tell them that there are games where you play as a genuine Luftwaffe pilot like Warthunder IL-2 series and other sims complete with swastikas, iron crosses and knight crosses for being a good nazi pilot.

Why the hell would you apologize for that, Third Reich factions have been playable in games for ages.
I would resent this if you start to sell Nazi ideals or something of the sort, but this is just another faction without propaganda attached.

albino boo:

Yes because using German in title, using the SS deathshead emblem and using German uniforms isn't in anyway looking Nazis.

Firstly, where's the Totenkopf emblem? The pic in the OP is a skull, not a Totenkopf.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SS_Totenkopf.jpg
Even if it was, so what? Very similar skull and crossbone device have been used by multiple armed forces, both pre and post WW2.

This idea reminds me of Sucker Punch, and often I saw/read people talking about the cast "killing Nazis" in the trench warfare section. Despite them clearly going for a WW1 aesthetic. Why can't people seem to get beyond German army-looking bad guy=Nazi?

d3s4nN:

albino boo:

The Plunk:
Hah, that's some quality bullshit right there. If Vlambeer weren't deliberately going for a Nazi aesthetic, they must have done it subconsciously, which would be far more concerning.

But still, it's been almost a century now, get the fuck over it. People who get offended over such trivial bullshit don't deserve an apology.

I suggest you read this list and I would really like to see you tell them that should get over surviving a concentration camp.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_survivors

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be called a nazi because of this, but still...
I am from Germany, born and raised. I have a general interest in history and seeing how it's rather recent history for us, WW2 and the holocaust in particular. I've gone as far as to live in concentration camps twice, for 2 weeks a time, learning and volunteering, so this is coming from an informed point of view.

While I do acknowledge what has been done by germans in the 1940s (primarily, before too of course), I, personally, accept no guilt or responsability for what has happened WHAT SO EVER. This has happened a rough 50 years before my birth, so i personally CANNOT be at fault for anything that has been done. And dont give me any crap about the sins of the father, that is the same kind of medieval, prejuidiced thinking the nazis had going for themselves (neither of my parents were born by 1945 btw).

So yeah, all my sympathies go out to all holocaust victims and/or survivors, but leave my generation out of it.
Oh and btw: I'm pretty sure that none of those who really "have a right to be offended" and are still alive have ever heard of this game.

lol I was expecting way worse from your buildup there. I love it when americans expect modern day germans to feel bad for what happened for, what, a decade and a half or so, completely ignoring that the US was elbow-deep in genocide since before its inception and right up until there were no more natives left to massacre, and then moved on to all the other non-whites to subjugate after that.
It's silliness. The only reason germany's hated for what it did is cause they happened to lose a war while it was going on. God knows how it would have turned out if the US or USSR had somehow lost, what with their gleeful slaughter of their own people with the USSR's self-scorched earth tactics on anything that might have helped the nazi advance or the americans rounding up all of their japanese and forcing them into concentration camps and stealing all of their property and selling it off. Not as bad as what the germans did, but that's not the point; the nazis arent the worst to have been, they just gave us a short glimpse of what we'd spent hundreds of years doing, that's what really makes us uncomfortable about them.

But anywho, it's a shame people were upset by the aesthetic and assumed it was a tacid support of nationalism (which is a hiliarious complaint coming from the modern game's industry...), but I totally support the developers for their measured and empathetic response

Undomesticated Equine:
Really? The twitter activists strike again. Please do not tell them that there are games where you play as a genuine Luftwaffe pilot like Warthunder IL-2 series and other sims complete with swastikas, iron crosses and knight crosses for being a good nazi pilot.

Now that you mention it, better not tell them about HoI series in which you win the war as Germany :D

This, this is why we cannot have nice things, its a little 2d flying shooter.

lacktheknack:
"I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream" depicts "totally not Jews" with bones removed, eyes cut out, and strung up on barbed wire in a "totally not a concentration camp" with freaking ovens full of corpses, as you play an honest-to-God Nazi scientist.

It was critically acclaimed, received with open arms, and remains a classic to this day.

Exactly, but now days you cannot do anything unless you make sure it does not upset just one person on the whole planet. Its kind of sad, i am not saying that you should openly abuse or mock people but all this PC crap is getting tiresome.

Louzerman102:
has a video on Youtube complaining that there are no female players in the male only league of FIFA 2014.

So someone just looking to stat a fuss for no reason.

JimB:

The Plunk:

There are no qualifications required to have an emotional response to anything. Your grandfathers do not bestow upon you more right to have a feeling about this game than any other person's grandparents. Anyone who feels uncomfortable is one hundred percent within their rights to do so, just as anyone who doesn't feel uncomfortable is one hundred percent within their rights to do so.

It's very weird to me how so many people in this thread have this need to tell others that an emotion is wrong. What is the basis for such a judgment? I mean, so far as I know based on the article, no one has even asked the developer to change the game or anything, but just expressed their own reservations.

You have right to be offended, but you do not have right not to be offended. Your feelings can be hurt, and you can complain about it, but creating fuss over it when it's something so unimportant and where there are much worse examples of the same "insult" in the medium in the same time frame (World of Warplanes comes to mind) is just ridiculous to me.

carnex:
You have right to be offended, but you do not have right not to be offended.

I'm sorry, what?

carnex:
Your feelings can be hurt, and you can complain about it, but creating fuss over it when it's something so unimportant and where there are much worse examples of the same "insult" in the medium in the same time frame (World of Warplanes comes to mind) is just ridiculous to me.

Do you think everyone who is aware of Luftrausers is also aware of World of Warplanes?

JimB:

carnex:
You have right to be offended, but you do not have right not to be offended.

I'm sorry, what?

How do I explain this? If you see image that offends you, you get offended and nobody can tell you not to get offended. On the other hand you can't demand from someone to remove that image so you wouldn't be offended unless if breaks some established rule/law.

carnex:
Your feelings can be hurt, and you can complain about it, but creating fuss over it when it's something so unimportant and where there are much worse examples of the same "insult" in the medium in the same time frame (World of Warplanes comes to mind) is just ridiculous to me.

JimB:
Do you think everyone who is aware of Luftrausers is also aware of World of Warplanes?

Since World of Tanks is such a huge hit I really thought World of Warplanes from same developer would have much bigger recognition than Lufrausers. Not to mention that the game is also free to play (unless you want better everything)

carnex:
How do I explain this? If you see an image that offends you, you get offended and nobody can tell you not to get offended. On the other hand, you can't demand from someone to remove that image so you wouldn't be offended unless if breaks some established rule/law.

Oh oh oh oh oh oh, okay, I think I get you. You're saying people have no inherent right to live free of being exposed to things they find offensive, is that it? I was confused before and thought you were making some statement about, I don't know, society being okay with people who take offense but not being okay with people who don't.

albino boo:

WouldYouKindly:

albino boo:

Yes because using German in title, using the SS deathshead emblem and using German uniforms isn't in anyway looking Nazis.

Death's Head emblem goes back to a Prussian cavalry unit, the Death's Head Hussars. This emblem was also standard uniform for any German tank crew, as tanks were considered an evolution of the cavalry role in military doctrine.

While the SS were generally loathsome human beings, the German army deserves a certain amount of respect. Their batshit crazy leader demanded the impossible out of them and they did a pretty good job of making it seem possible at times.

That plays a funny little parallel to the game. You're given an impossible mission and then you get to go at it for a while, but you'll always die in the end.

Oh, and the emblems look nothing like the skull up there. The emblem the Nazis used was never forward facing but presented a 3/4ths view and always had the mouth closed. Also, the German military still dresses impeccably. It's a German thing, not a Nazi thing.

This entire enterprise is to ensure that if you're going to be offended, you should be well-informed and offended. I don't actually care that much, but I do love a good history lesson.

Yeah right mate, next you will be telling me the Swastika came from India so it shouldn't be counted. I have no respect for the wehrmacht whatsoever. There is the upwards of 10 million rapes committed by them for for start. How about the mass executions for partisan activity or clearing minefields by driving civilians through at gunpoint. Real nice guys, you want to invite them round for dinner. Before posting about the germany army please try reading some history that wasn't written by Von Manstein. The Wehrmacht was up to its rotten little neck in war crimes.

"...next you will be telling me the Swastika came from India..."

It is, actually. But maybe you already knew that. The swastika was, and still is, a religious symbol in many Indian religions. Feel free to read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

But aside from that, I got the German vibe straight away. I won't say it bothered me, but I refuse to believe no-one working on this game didn't stop and think that some people might draw parallels between the aesthetic of the Nazis and that of their fictional military force.

JimB:

carnex:
You have right to be offended, but you do not have right not to be offended.

I'm sorry, what?

carnex:
Your feelings can be hurt, and you can complain about it, but creating fuss over it when it's something so unimportant and where there are much worse examples of the same "insult" in the medium in the same time frame (World of Warplanes comes to mind) is just ridiculous to me.

Do you think everyone who is aware of Luftrausers is also aware of World of Warplanes?

World of Tanks is one of the BIGGEST games on the PLANET.
As in AAAA big...

WoWP, whilst not even close to that, is still from the same developer and has quite a bit more well known then Luftrausers. That does not mean one is better, just that its more logical to put it the other way around.

I like Luftrausers and I have nothing against playing as a Nazi as it goes. Having said that I found what I took to be Indiana Jones style Nazi imagery to be incredibly strong, as in I don't see how it could have been an accident.

Considering all the brutal empires from history you can play as in the Civilization games, simply playing as Nazi Germany shouldn't be that shocking. Obviously if there were a game like Holocaust Simulator 2015 or whatever it would be in poor taste, but even then, I wouldn't necessarily be in favor of banning such a game.

This is a really bizarre story. I feel like it's from some parallel, alternate reality where nazis have been banned in videogames, despite the opposite having been true for decades, and these games were clearly about nazis, not just sporting a similar aesthetic. You can't even make the case that "Well, in this game the protagonist is a nazi!" because players being able to be nazis has also been around as long as multiplayer for said decade old games.

Personally, I always have a weakness for wwII games where you get to play as the germans. There are so many games where you play as the allied forces, it has gotten a bit boring. I had no interest in that rts wwII game (can't remember the name of it right now) until they had an axis campaign. Battlefield 1942, always played ze germans. Even crappy movies like "the bunker" get a little more interesting because the main characters are germans.

Trying to remove the "bad guys" from games like this only makes them more "exotic" so to speak.

I am fully aware that in real life, the nazis were scum, but there is still a bit of fascination of playing as the bad-guy, just like i prefer playing as the empire in star wars, whenever i get the chance. Sorry if any rebels get offended ;)

Remember that one time where a group ruined an aesthetic style for generations after their fall?

SidheKnight:
People who are offended by Nazi references should get over it.

WWII was almost a century ago, and has already been exploited for entertainment so much that the presence of Nazis in media is almost inescapable, unless you live in a bubble (or Germany, where even depicting the swastika in works of fiction is forbidden. Morons.).

Wrong. Before you start throwing accussations around you might want to get your facts straight first.
The Stastika isn't forbidden in works of fiction in Germany. The display of the Swastika is forbidden in general, but it is excepted in anything that is art, science or education.
Fiction as in books or movies is considered art and is therefore excepted by this law.
The very point of the law is not to pretend like the nazis never happened. The Law itself outlaws the Nazi party. Outlawing a party makes any propaganda for that party illegal. Public showing of the swastika, were it isn't excepted by the above rules, counts as propaganda and is therefore forbidden.
The problem with games is that they are not universally seen as art. BUT this has never actually been tried. The Publishers are in general just too scared that they might not get an usk approval, so they cut this kind of thing out beforehand. As far as i am concerned there hasn't been a case were a game was banned because of the showing of the swastika for decades. Mostly because nobody tried.

Don't pretend like you know something about my country when you actually don't. If there's one country that constantly makes everyone aware how ashamed we should feel for the third reich it's germany.

Amaror:

SidheKnight:
People who are offended by Nazi references should get over it.

WWII was almost a century ago, and has already been exploited for entertainment so much that the presence of Nazis in media is almost inescapable, unless you live in a bubble (or Germany, where even depicting the swastika in works of fiction is forbidden. Morons.).

Wrong. Before you start throwing accussations around you might want to get your facts straight first.
The Stastika isn't forbidden in works of fiction in Germany. The display of the Swastika is forbidden in general, but it is excepted in anything that is art, science or education.
Fiction as in books or movies is considered art and is therefore excepted by this law.
The very point of the law is not to pretend like the nazis never happened. The Law itself outlaws the Nazi party. Outlawing a party makes any propaganda for that party illegal. Public showing of the swastika, were it isn't excepted by the above rules, counts as propaganda and is therefore forbidden.
The problem with games is that they are not universally seen as art. BUT this has never actually been tried. The Publishers are in general just too scared that they might not get an usk approval, so they cut this kind of thing out beforehand. As far as i am concerned there hasn't been a case were a game was banned because of the showing of the swastika for decades. Mostly because nobody tried.

Don't pretend like you know something about my country when you actually don't. If there's one country that constantly makes everyone aware how ashamed we should feel for the third reich it's germany.

You're right. I didn't know that. Sorry.

I did know Germany does try to remind everyone of how ashamed they are of nazism, I never claimed that they try to pretend it never happened. But since censorship laws for videogames in Germany are more strict than in the rest of Europe, I just asumed that the no-swastikas thing was part of that, kind of like the "no red blood" thing.

SidheKnight:

You're right. I didn't know that. Sorry.

I did know Germany does try to remind everyone of how ashamed they are of nazism, I never claimed that they try to pretend it never happened. But since censorship laws for videogames in Germany are more strict than in the rest of Europe, I just asumed that the no-swastikas thing was part of that, kind of like the "no red blood" thing.

It's no problem, everyone can be wrong sometimes.
I am just a bit sensitive about people misunderstanding the swastika thing after the Stick of Truth incident.

I don't get it, there have been literally dozens of games made in which you can play as the actual Nazis (Close Combat, Company of Heroes, Hearts of Iron, Codename: Panzers, Soldiers: Heroes of WW2, etc.) and I don't remember anyone ever complaining about it, but now that a game is made in which you play as someone who just looks like a Nazi, people are upset?

One day, people will run out of things to be upset about, and I'm convinced the planet will collapse in on itself.

I'm offended by Nazi's... for sure... but are we honestly going to ignore history and our freedoms to parody a visual art style?
Freedom being an important word there because better men than us fought and died for it, the fact that some people can be mad about the visuals of an arcade style shoot em up is silly to me on its own, but restricting peoples creative freedom aswell?
Give it a rest.

Gronk:
Personally, I always have a weakness for wwII games where you get to play as the germans. There are so many games where you play as the allied forces, it has gotten a bit boring. I had no interest in that rts wwII game (can't remember the name of it right now) until they had an axis campaign. Battlefield 1942, always played ze germans. Even crappy movies like "the bunker" get a little more interesting because the main characters are germans.

Trying to remove the "bad guys" from games like this only makes them more "exotic" so to speak.

I am fully aware that in real life, the nazis were scum, but there is still a bit of fascination of playing as the bad-guy, just like i prefer playing as the empire in star wars, whenever i get the chance. Sorry if any rebels get offended

There is no problem with liking the Wermacht. They were an efficient fighting force with the willpower, technology, and support staff to engage in a war across Europe. In fact, the worst thing to happen to the Wermacht was Hitler, as his political decisions screwed them.
One can respect the Germans and what they did. I must admit: those uniforms looked awesome, and they were a superb military force at the beginning of the war. My grandfather, who was in the Navy in WWII, admits he had respect for the German people for their industry and engineering excellence.
I also like playing as the Wermacht and the Empire. German weapons are fantastic, and Rebels are scum.
Also, were you thinking of Company of Heroes? It took an expansion for them to include a German campaign.

Also, were you thinking of Company of Heroes? It took an expansion for them to include a German campaign.

Yup, that's the one, thanks. I couldn't think of the title at the moment of writing. I actually never tried the axis campaign, by the time they released it, the moment had sort of passed and other games were beckoning. So I have no idea if it was any good or not.

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