Russia Tells U.S. to Use A Trampoline to Send Its Astronauts to the ISS

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Hero in a half shell:

I like how there are 2 conversations going on in this thread.

The first is a mud-slinging heavy handed political argument about Russian/American interests in Ukraine

The second is an amicable exploration of international trampoline manufacturers.

And yet, both are somehow equally relevant to the original topic.

This sums it up pretty well for me. However, I do find it interesting that nobody is discussing the fact that NASA already has the capacity to send people into space, or could regain such standing rather quickly. It was just cheaper to pay Russia, though it looks like SpaceX is doing good work, and I thought I saw something about India heading into space as well, so there are non-trampoline options.

Zontar:

image

May I ask where you found this, and is it part of a larger series of comics that I could be reading?

Whoops! Looks like someone's going for TWO black eyes. Have fun with those sanctions, boys! It only gets worse from here!

Vegosiux:

MrFalconfly:

Sorry mate, but Ukraine is not a "USA vs Russia" thing. It's Russia illegally annexing foreign territory from a sovereign country (Ukraine).

In theory. But in practice it's quite about a geopolitical struggle between Russia, EU and USA, who all have conflicting interests in Ukraine, and are trying to pursue each their own agenda - at the expense of Ukrainian people, ultimately.

Though I must say I've not been following that line of news much lately, seeing as there's a political clusterfuck happening closer to home and am mostly keeping an eye on that, so I might be falling behind here...

Well if I recall correctly, the whole shebang started when a majority of the Ukrainian people began protesting against their government because they broke their promises about making trade-agreements with the EU (which of cause the Kremlin doesn't like since they think Ukraine is Russian territory for some reason).

I don't know why USA got involved in this, and I think we (European countries who've involved themselves) should bug out (unless Russia openly breaches international law), in order to have the moral highground.

This is why we need a fucking space program.

Zontar:
democracy

I love how that word gets thrown around as justification whenever America wants to sticks its dick where it doesn't belong, ignoring more logical explanations like "oil" and "geopolitical interests"
Also how is a violent US backed uprising "democratic"?

as cynical as this might sound... I think that the NASA, ESA and all the other space agencies need a bit of Russian threats. If nothing else this should spur developments that might perhaps encourage these agencies to start developing maned space crafts more readily.
Russians should be isolated. Completely. Show them that the west can do it better and cheaper.

Is there no chance of using nano-enhanced pogo sticks instead of tramapolines? Much more user control there.

I have this funny feeling that by the time this thread ends, no one will have learnt anything new, other than that everyone else is as arrogant as themselves

Hero in a half shell:

toms:
This thread needs an adult.

I like how there are 2 conversations going on in this thread.

The first is a mud-slinging heavy handed political argument about Russian/American interests in Ukraine

The second is an amicable exploration of international trampoline manufacturers.

And yet, both are somehow equally relevant to the original topic.

I know, isn't it great!

(mind you, I'm the one arguing with someone who could be charitably called 'logic inadequate')

Am i the only one that thinks that two wrongs do not make right? The space programs should cooperate. I hoped that the situation in Ukraine would not impact the ISS project but it looks like it is not going to happen. Russians annexed Crimea yes and everybody is losing their minds even though US is invading and robot bombing whatever they damn please but eh that is OOK because they are the bestest country in the world and someone has to be the global policeman i guess. Right?
And all you hurrr durr 'Murican space program is the best should realize that the ISS core and several other modules along with docking ports that were used even on the apparently best spacecraft ever the Shuttle were designed by russians. Russians could easily compete with US and europe if they had more funding. NASA is usually ahead because it receives more money it is as simple as that.
One more thing Buran on its first and last UNMANNED flight despite a lateral wind speed of 61.2 kilometres per hour (38.0 mph), landed only 3 metres (9.8 ft) laterally and 10 metres (33 ft) longitudinally from the target mark.
Guess what cancelled because of lack of money. Mir space station scuttled cause no money. All the while the oligarchy is rolling in state money At least you can see where the priorities lie for the Putin and the other leaders before him.

Okay, that is a burn. Politics, ethics, everything else aside, that is a burn. And a very good burn at that. I have to admit that I chuckled a bit at it.

I wonder if Neil Armstrong is rolling over in his grave. Or was it another astronaut who said that it was beyond embarrassing for the United States, the first nation to put a man on the moon, to now have to bum rides with Russia just to get to the space station?

On topic... All these people arguing that Russia might be in the right, and I'm just like "I'm on the side that hasn't made being openly pro-LGBT illegal. Putin can go suck a dick."

shirkbot:

Zontar:

image

May I ask where you found this, and is it part of a larger series of comics that I could be reading?

It's from Kate Beaton's Hark! A Vagrant comic series, which is monstly about all kinds of historical shenanigans. That particular image is from Edgar Allan Poe getting fanmail from Jules Verne:

image

major_chaos:

Zontar:
democracy

I love how that word gets thrown around as justification whenever America wants to sticks its dick where it doesn't belong, ignoring more logical explanations like "oil" and "geopolitical interests"
Also how is a violent US backed uprising "democratic"?

The uprising wasn't violent, at least not nearly as much as the Russian media tries to make it look. The most violent part of the uprising was the government crackdown. You know, the straw that broke the camel's back? The one which made the courts of both Ukraine and the ICC make the then president a wanted man? After which, even though he had a better tactical position then the protesters, he ran away to Russia?

The most violent part of this whole crisis has been the illegal Russian invasion of Crimea with intent to annex (2nd highest crime for a UN member after genocide) and the s*it they've been stirring in eastern Ukraine.

Given that Ukraine is set to have elections in May, while the occupied territory has no plan on putting the government formed from a party which received 4% of the vote in their last election, calling what Russia is doing against democracy while what Ukraine is doing to be the promotion of it, yes, saying that this is about democracy is a factual statement.

After all, it's not like Ukraine has much oil (that isn't sarcasm, Ukraine seriously has next to no oil. Plus why would the US put so much effort into getting it when pretty much all oil the US uses comes from domestic sources or imports from North and South America? If there was oil in Ukraine in amounts worth mentioning, it wouldn't end up in American cars, that's for sure).

This whole crisis is Russia stirring up s*it in an attempt to steal territory to win that madman of a dictator popularity points at home and prevent Ukraine from joining NATO (an inevitability now), nothing more, nothing less.

Sidenote: are you a furry by any chance (just asking because of your profile pic)? Because if you are, that makes your support of Russia in this all the more jarring.

Li Mu:
I for one think it's a great idea. How large do you think the trampoline would need to be to launch a shuttle into space?

I was wondering the same. Summon the Mythbusters! *powers up the Myth-signal*

This could be the start of the low-tech space race where any country with enough flat ground is in the running.

Sniper Team 4:
I wonder if Neil Armstrong is rolling over in his grave. Or was it another astronaut who said that it was beyond embarrassing for the United States, the first nation to put a man on the moon, to now have to bum rides with Russia just to get to the space station?

Well the USA might have been the first to put a man on the Moon, but Russia did pretty much everything else space related first. So it's not that embarassing to go with them. If they were hitching a ride with North Korea THEN they could blush a little.

I am shocked, SHOCKED, that scrapping our own space program and relying entierly on the good will and finantial stability of a historically hostile and unstable country could possibly backfire on us... SHOCKED. What psychic could have for seen something like this?!?!?

Wait, Russia is charging us $60 million to send a single astronaut into space? how much did we lose in NASA to where $60 million a person seemed like a better deal?

CriticalMiss:

Li Mu:
I for one think it's a great idea. How large do you think the trampoline would need to be to launch a shuttle into space?

I was wondering the same. Summon the Mythbusters! *powers up the Myth-signal*

This could be the start of the low-tech space race where any country with enough flat ground is in the running.

Well, the problem is that it's not just about size. You can't gain energy from a trampoline (unless you're playing Goat Simulator) - if you jump onto a trampoline, you will bounce away from it with less energy than you put in. I suppose that it's a pretty decent way of building energy, since you can add a bit more energy to your bounce with each jump, but that energy still needs to come from somewhere...

Although, I suppose that you'd need a relatively large trampoline in order for it to not break with the amount of energy that it's regularly absorbing and deflecting. You'd need it to be able to withstand someone falling onto it from space.

I'm guessing XKCD What-If will probably tackle this question fairly soon.

On the other topic... Nope, actually I'm not getting involved in that debate. I'll just say that I was much happier when there wasn't much chance of Russia and the US coming to blows.

Scytail:

major_chaos:

"I propose that the United States delivers its astronauts to the ISS with the help of a trampoline."


So nice to see a government not bend over for American interests for once. Go Russia, best of luck in the Ukraine and fuck western backed regimes in general.

Yeah! Fuck those western backed regimes! Not like Russia has it's dick in several countries as well. Not like any country with the power to back it wont start manipulating activities in other countries to suit their own needs.

Eye for an eye right? Or maybe dick for a dick? Its the capitalist way to exploit 'lesser countries'. American and Russia both do this all the time. My country rip off the countries close by, buying wood at incredibly small prices, physically steal oil off other countries and lets not talk about our 'illegal immigrant' problem. (I'm talking about Australia, the land of the rich stealing from the poor. It may not have been clear)

I don't think I can blame Russia, we have no business poking into their affairs.

Oh Russia, you dun goofed.

Now America will unleashed the perfect trampoline.

image

And this was the inherent flaw in Obama's plan to cut NASA's budget and kill the shuttle program.

Now Russia can legitimately threaten to keep us from sending astronauts there (or bringing our current ones back), and there's not a damn thing we can do about it.

This is an issue that was completely avoidable, if we hadn't focused so much on typical left/right "politics" over meaningless issues and kept the funding intact for the organization which has developed many of the modern conveniences we enjoy today.

Zontar:
There are just no words. I know this is the internet where opinions very from as far left to as far right as they can get, plus countless ideologies which have no words to describe, but the level of anti-democracy, pro-dictatorship, pro... you know what, I'll just use this image, it described my feelings more accurately then words ever could.

image

It's beautiful, isn't it? They should have sent a poet...

Seriously though, this is why I stay the hell out of the Religion and Politics section. No matter what you post there, your inbox will soon be filled with countless people quoting you that are more than happy to tell you just how incredibly wrong you are for thinking what you think and why you're stupid/a terrible person for thinking that way.

Generally it's 20 people making a slight variation of the exact same comment in response to your post.

The R&P section should come with toxic waste warning symbols placed all around it.

CriticKitten:
And this was the inherent flaw in Obama's plan to cut NASA's budget and kill the shuttle program.

Now Russia can legitimately threaten to keep us from sending astronauts there (or bringing our current ones back), and there's not a damn thing we can do about it.

This is an issue that was completely avoidable, if we hadn't focused so much on typical left/right "politics" over meaningless issues and kept the funding intact for the organization which has developed many of the modern conveniences we enjoy today.

To be fair, the shuttle program needed to be mothballed. I know it seems like a huge blow to NASA not having their own shuttles, but those aging things cost a damned fortune to launch and issues with insulation breaking off during launch directly led to the loss of the Columbia and all her astronauts, a problem that continued to persist in later launches. 60 mil is cheap compared to the cost of a space mission flown by one of our old shuttles and it's not like we aren't developing an alternative craft, it just takes time. All in all, even if the Russians were to block us from sending our people on their craft it will likely just hasten our own development of the new craft and in the meantime, we aren't exactly losing something we can't live without for a while.

MrFalconfly:

major_chaos:

"I propose that the United States delivers its astronauts to the ISS with the help of a trampoline."


So nice to see a government not bend over for American interests for once. Go Russia, best of luck in the Ukraine and fuck western backed regimes in general.

Hang on?!?

Russia going all "Winter War" (look it up, it's not the first time Russia has annexed foreign territory as a bufferzone) on Ukraine is a good thing?!?

Sorry mate, but Ukraine is not a "USA vs Russia" thing. It's Russia illegally annexing foreign territory from a sovereign country (Ukraine).

I don't know where that bollocks about Ukraine "belonging to Russia" came from, but fact of the matter is that Ukraine is a sovereign nation and Russia should back the fuck off.

If by "annexing" you mean "Crimea wanted to join Russia instead of the clusterfuck that is the current Ukraine and people of Crimea voted for that fair and square on a referendum", then yeah, that was annexing.

Gorrath:
To be fair, the shuttle program needed to be mothballed. I know it seems like a huge blow to NASA not having their own shuttles, but those aging things cost a damned fortune to launch and issues with insulation breaking off during launch directly led to the loss of the Columbia and all her astronauts, a problem that continued to persist in later launches. 60 mil is cheap compared to the cost of a space mission flown by one of our old shuttles and it's not like we aren't developing an alternative craft, it just takes time. All in all, even if the Russians were to block us from sending our people on their craft it will likely just hasten our own development of the new craft and in the meantime, we aren't exactly losing something we can't live without for a while.

NASA's budget being cut isn't going to help with that endeavor.

It lost another $50 million this year, with a total of $268 million in cuts to all planetary science funding from 2013 levels. The 2015 budget is looking to lose another $186 million.

Yes, granted, those cuts are not currently in space exploration. But they are bad enough that many prominent scientists have rallied against them. And as we continue to cut away, we're letting Russia hold us hostage to the tune of $60 million per person, and now they're threatening not to even let us do THAT.

The correct decision would have been to keep running the shuttle program in tandem with the creation of a new delivery system, and to then phase out the shuttle as the new ships rolled out. Funding another country's economy is not an ideal model, especially when that country is now behaving like it's back in the Cold War.

Zontar:

Sidenote: are you a furry by any chance (just asking because of your profile pic)? Because if you are, that makes your support of Russia in this all the more jarring.

Furry/Scaly here, sup, I am curious as to why you find it jarring. Is it because of something happening in Russia that I did not hear about?

OT: I will not get into the flamewar over the Ukrainian/Russian crisis or what have you and simply state that our countries need to get our collective heads out of our asses. I am of the firm belief that our future lies in the stars and will be mildly disappointed if we send ourselves into extinction before that happens.

Why do I suspect there's at least one cosmonaut in space right now muttering, "#@$%, guys, I don't give a damn about Ukraine... Can you just keep us out of it, please...?"

Zontar:

The uprising wasn't violent, at least not nearly as much as the Russian media tries to make it look. The most violent part of the uprising was the government crackdown.

You honestly don't think police were killed by protesters? You really think responding to violence with violence is some kind of evil "crackdown"? You really think the US has any right to complain about how people treat protesters?

After which, even though he had a better tactical position then the protesters, he ran away to Russia?

Possibly because he *shockhorror* didn't want to be strung up and used for target practice.

The most violent part of this whole crisis has been the illegal Russian invasion of Crimea with intent to annex

Right. Their evil invasion to protect ethnic Russians from the violent protesters who in all likelihood would not have been terrible polite to those they would consider the blood of the enemy. And you know the whole thing where Crimea voted to be part of Russia and the people who claim that was a scam have a strangely hard time coming up with evidence other than "EVUL RUSSIANS!!"
EDIT: I also can't find anything indicating more than 10 Kiev-loyal Ukrainians dead, compared to 15 dissenters killed by the Kiev government.

After all, it's not like Ukraine has much oil (that isn't sarcasm, Ukraine seriously has next to no oil. Plus why would the US put so much effort into getting it when pretty much all oil the US uses comes from domestic sources or imports from North and South America? If there was oil in Ukraine in amounts worth mentioning, it wouldn't end up in American cars, that's for sure).

Mentioning oil was a stab at our pointless entanglement in the middle east. US interest in the Ukraine has more to do with the west preferring to have Russia surrounded by nations friendly to western interests.

madman of a dictator

You say that, yet he makes my skin crawl far less than any western leader. Not to mention the rare presence of an actual spine which is almost unheard of in modern politics.

are you a furry by any chance?

No. I enjoy a few comics with the art style but I don't identify with or seek out that subculture. I have that avatar because I enjoy the comic its from and can relate to the protagonist in a lot of ways that don't involve having fluffy ears.

Because if you are, that makes your support of Russia in this all the more jarring.

Why? Does Russia have some kinda of anti furry law? Because that would be fucking hilarious.

Geo Da Sponge:
-snip-

Thank you very much. Now I know where to take shelter from the flames.

RealRT:
If by "annexing" you mean "Crimea wanted to join Russia instead of the clusterfuck that is the current Ukraine and people of Crimea voted for that fair and square on a referendum", then yeah, that was annexing.

Allowing a region to join a different country just because 80% of its citizens want to? Preposterous! A true democratic process obviously requires approval of the USA government.

To be fair the results are a bit suspect, but I think most crimeans would have indeed liked to join Russia if just to avoid the clusterfuck. Regular people are boned ether way. It's basically a choice between Oligarchs. Be they Russian or Ukrainian ones, it does not make that much of a difference in the end.

It's a pity international cooperation in space exploration is worth so little, but it's nothing new. The astronauts are probably facepalming pretty hard about all this. A bit alarming how space exploration of humanity as a whole may be fucked up by geopolitical bickering. Probably about time to decouple it a bit more from governments.

I'm ashamed my fellow Escapists. ASHAMED I SAY! Where then is that - are those - great monoliths? None of you have the courage to ask, but I shall. If we'd all had more advanced space programs would they have fallen apart four years ago as a world turned into a star? We have a new moon in the system but no new star... Can we, as a species, survive? Tell us Arthur C. Clark since HALL can not!

major_chaos:

Ed130 The Vanguard:

As opposed to Russian backed ones like Syria.

Oh Syria, thanks for reminding me of another time Russia was actually willing to do the unthinkable and oppose the US.

Mister K:

You want us to live under Putin? Nah, thank you very much. If it happens, you can expect mass murders of anti-Yanukovich protesters. Or something like that.

Doubtful. Besides its not like the rebel government is adverse to bloodshed.

It's easy for you to take this moralistic stance when you're not living in the country in question.

Is it bad that I'm looking forward to these sanctions as they lower the value of foreign currencies in comparison to the euro allowing me to buy more foreign products for the same money?

Not that there will ever be strong sanctions against Russia. The world's economy is far to fragile and money always speaks louder. I wonder why Russia even wanted to annex a part of that (currently) horrid mess that some might refer to as a country. I mean, it does have some resources and it does look very pretty but is that worth all the shit Russia is facing now?

Nevertheless, Russian officials do have a sense of humor.

major_chaos:

Zontar:

The uprising wasn't violent, at least not nearly as much as the Russian media tries to make it look. The most violent part of the uprising was the government crackdown.

You honestly don't think police were killed by protesters? You really think responding to violence with violence is some kind of evil "crackdown"? You really think the US has any right to complain about how people treat protesters?

Name the last time the US killed people in a crackdown, then compare it to when it happened in Ukraine. Yes a few police where killed, but compared to what? About 2-3 hundred protesters depending on the source, and there has yet to be a report of the protesters killing first. (it may have happened, but no source has yet stepped forward who was actually there at the time).

After which, even though he had a better tactical position then the protesters, he ran away to Russia?

Possibly because he *shockhorror* didn't want to be strung up and used for target practice.

Well, he did provoke such an action, but he could have turned himself in to the ICC to defend himself in a neutral court of law. Yes you Americans don't recognize it, but it's about as impartial as any court will get. But no, he made himself look like a guilty man by running to his masters in Moscow.

The most violent part of this whole crisis has been the illegal Russian invasion of Crimea with intent to annex

Right. Their evil invasion to protect ethnic Russians from the violent protesters who in all likelihood would not have been terrible polite to those they would consider the blood of the enemy. And you know the whole thing where Crimea voted to be part of Russia and the people who claim that was a scam have a strangely hard time coming up with evidence other than "EVUL RUSSIANS!!"
EDIT: I also can't find anything indicating more than 10 Kiev-loyal Ukrainians dead, compared to 15 dissenters killed by the Kiev government.

As East Ukraine stands testament too, that would not have happened. (probably because if there was a risk of it actually happen a Russian invasion would have been inevitable). What Russia did was a unilateral crime, and under section one of the UN charter an act of war against all sovereign nations (war with the intent of annexation). And for the love of god don't you dare pretend the referendum (which had "join Russia" and "join Russia" and the options and was held at gunpoint) which has more holes then Swiss chess was legitimate. There's no way support for joining Russia went from 40% of ethnic Russians and next to no Ukrainians and Tatars supporting it going to almost all Russians, Ukrainians and Tatars supporting it in the span of 2 months, especially given that 40% number was the historic high over a year ago and steadily dropped under the old president. Mathematics don't lie, and the impossible remains the impossible.

After all, it's not like Ukraine has much oil (that isn't sarcasm, Ukraine seriously has next to no oil. Plus why would the US put so much effort into getting it when pretty much all oil the US uses comes from domestic sources or imports from North and South America? If there was oil in Ukraine in amounts worth mentioning, it wouldn't end up in American cars, that's for sure).

Mentioning oil was a stab at our pointless entanglement in the middle east. US interest in the Ukraine has more to do with the west preferring to have Russia surrounded by nations friendly to western interests.

So because the US invaded one country over a decade ago, that suddenly makes all acts illegitimate? Well hell, Russia invaded Georgia in 2008 without provocation, that logic harms their case more the us in the West.

madman of a dictator

You say that, yet he makes my skin crawl far less than any western leader. Not to mention the rare presence of an actual spine which is almost unheard of in modern politics.

Praising a dictator now? Wow. Given his background, you're saying instead of a democratically elected leader, nations like the US should be lead by dictators who are former CIA members? Not sure if that logic is more disgusting or appalling. The man has almost singlehandedly restarted the Cold War and turned Russia into the biggest threat to world peace. Sure the US may invade a country on occasion (though over the past 25 years less so then Russia has) but when was the last time the US invaded a nation to steal their land? The answer is before it became illegal to do so under international law which all members of the UN have signed. Russia gets closer to becoming a rouge state by the day, and if there's anything that's more of a problem for everyone everywhere then a rogue state, it's one armed with nuclear weapons (though there are probably too many checks and balances in place for that to happen without him getting what's coming too him).

are you a furry by any chance?

No. I enjoy a few comics with the art style but I don't identify with or seek out that subculture. I have that avatar because I enjoy the comic its from and can relate to the protagonist in a lot of ways that don't involve having fluffy ears.

Because if you are, that makes your support of Russia in this all the more jarring.

Why? Does Russia have some kinda of anti furry law? Because that would be fucking hilarious.

Well yes, it does. Glad too see you aren't an Uncle Tom, just someone siding with the enemy.

Vareoth:
Is it bad that I'm looking forward to these sanctions as they lower the value of foreign currencies in comparison to the euro allowing me to buy more foreign products for the same money?

Not that there will ever be strong sanctions against Russia. The world's economy is far to fragile and money always speaks louder. I wonder why Russia even wanted to annex a part of that (currently) horrid mess that some might refer to as a country. I mean, it does have some resources and it does look very pretty but is that worth all the shit Russia is facing now?

Nevertheless, Russian officials do have a sense of humor.

Seems to have been an act of opportunity then anything thought out. Crimea is going to become another net drain on the Russian economy like occupied Georgia and Moldova have been, so it's probably just for propaganda value. Dictators usually keep in within their own boarders though.

Saulkar:

Zontar:

Sidenote: are you a furry by any chance (just asking because of your profile pic)? Because if you are, that makes your support of Russia in this all the more jarring.

Furry/Scaly here, sup, I am curious as to why you find it jarring. Is it because of something happening in Russia that I did not hear about?

OT: I will not get into the flamewar over the Ukrainian/Russian crisis or what have you and simply state that our countries need to get our collective heads out of our asses. I am of the firm belief that our future lies in the stars and will be mildly disappointed if we send ourselves into extinction before that happens.

That anti-gay law the Russians passed includes Furriers in it on the list of banned for immorality. Basically a furry supporting Russian is like a visible minority supporting the CSA.

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