George R.R. Martin Pulling Back From Game of Thrones Season Five

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Razhem:
Is it really that much of a loss loosing Lady Stoneheart and Arianne, at least for now? The whole of the Martell family outside of the Oberyn have been a joke since they are all talk and no do currently and the Lady Stoneheart plotline doesn't really seem to know where it's going after the fifth book.

And we were so carefully avoiding mentioning LS by name...

Well if you'd heard what GRRM confirmed about TWOW prologue at Comic-Con, you might not be so quick to say that that plotline doesn't know where it's going.

I honestly believe he will die or take ill and not finish the series. He is a terrible writer (both in practice and execution). I really don't know if I could muster enough interest in reading the next book. I'm pretty sure the one character I'm rooting for will be the only character alive at the end, but a five min read through of his wikipedia article can tell me all about it.

As fucking if I could slog through another Sansa chapter.

Anachronism:

How dare he do anything other than spend 24 hours a day writing the book? We don't want the book to be good, we want it now!

Honestly, calm down a little. You've bought his previous books, and he's under no obligation to provide you with another. He's under no obligation to finish the series if he doesn't want to, especially not now that the TV show will end the story whatever happens.

He isn't obligated exactly, though it'd be bad form not to wrap them up, but in the fantasy world GRRM is basically the equivalent of Peter Molyneux. It's perfectly understandable, after the lax editorial control and the spiralling chances that we'll never see how the story ends, that people are starting to run out of patience with him.

Kontarek:

Exterminas:

Martin is going to die before he finishes the books. At least it is very likely that he will. I mean, look at his work pace and then look at this guy: His he the sort of man that lives to be produtive in his 80s or 90s? No, quite frankly. And he isn't going to become a faster writer with increasing age, he is going to become slower.

He is going to pull a Robert Jordan on the book series and it seems like he is the only one who is still adamant that this will not happen. Someone else will finish the books and the series will run out of books to adapt soon, so they will likely start making up their own stuff.

Granted, I have exaggerated that, sure Martin will "have a say" in that, like his wishes and ideas (so far as they exist) might fall into consideration. But seeing as how things went with Jordan, there is also going to be a lot of foreign influence in the finished work

He's only 65; he could easily have another 15-20 years in him to finish the series (though I don't think it'll take him more than 10). While his dying before that is a possibility, it is hardly a certainty. We know nothing about what sort of health he is in, and frankly it's not really our business. Not to mention this article says he's at least trying to buckle down and write faster, and you can't really ask anything more from him than that.

I can't understand how you concile your optimism with the data at hand. I just checked his bibliography again:

The second and thrid book took him two years to write. The fourth took him five years, the fith six years.

Now, If I am being optimistic and assume that the next two books will only take him six years, I get the following time table:

Next book: 2017
Last book: 2023.

So by the time the last book releases Martin will be 75. How many overweight 70-year-old americans do you know that don't have any serious health conditions that slow down their productivy? Like cancer or diabetis?

And that is not even accounting for the fact that Martin will very likely take longer for the last two books than six years, because he is who he is and has been taking increasingly longer for each book in the past.

It would be good if he'd manage to finish his work. Otherwise I don't know what turn it will take. Would the series stay discontinued or take the route of The Wheel of Time and get finished with the help of notes by another competent fantasy author. Guess it's no use to plan that out now (but it might be good to make a clear plan where the series is going and how it's going to end; in case something happens).

Exterminas:

I can't understand how you concile your optimism with the data at hand. I just checked his bibliography again:

The second and thrid book took him two years to write. The fourth took him five years, the fith six years.

Now, If I am being optimistic and assume that the next two books will only take him six years, I get the following time table:

Next book: 2017
Last book: 2023.

So by the time the last book releases Martin will be 75. How many overweight 70-year-old americans do you know that don't have any serious health conditions that slow down their productivy? Like cancer or diabetis?

And that is not even accounting for the fact that Martin will very likely take longer for the last two books than six years, because he is who he is and has been taking increasingly longer for each book in the past.

My position is primarily one of "who fucking knows?". If he dies before he finishes it will be a tragedy, but there won't be anything to stop it so that'll be that. We can only take these things as they come; we cannot outright assume an untimely death to be an inevitability.

EDIT: Out of curiosity I looked around and found a scientific study that concluded overweight people over age 70 in particular have a slightly higher survival index than their thin counterparts:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1532-5415.2009.02677.x/abstract;jsessionid=B7DFE101940C2EA47D494433A741DA23.f02t01

Now I'm not treating this as full-blown proof that he won't kick the bucket, but it's a point in his favor at least.

Meh whether he finishes it or not matters little. HBO will have an end with or without him. Much like Full metal alchemist had an end. He can finish it or HBO will get someone to finish it for them. A song of ice an fire is one thing but game of thrones has become it's own being.

Imre Csete:

Lunncal:
Woah, how rude? This guy doesn't owe you anything, he's not obligated to finish his book series at all, what gives you the right to call him a lazy ass?

He might be rockin' the jovial grandpa look, but he's far from an all around nice guy (like when he lost to Harry Potter ages ago). I don't care about the lazy part though.

I agree, I remember that open letter back in the day. It really made him look like a petulant child as opposed to a professional author.

I am firmly on GRRM's side here.

I do not give a flying fuck how long it takes him to write the next book or whether it will be 8 o 9 of them. I want him to write the best story that he can write, that is all I ask of him, and I am willing to wait for a good quality story... one that he himself would be proud of.

As for the show, it has no bearing on my stance. The show can go any way it wants. It can finish with a different ending or follow alternate plot lines. They will do something similar to TWD which will have a different ending from the book, and I am OK with that. The show will also be a good quality spectacle.

The show and books do not diminish each other by virtue of their own existence.

I say, let the man write.

To all those who are giving people a hard time because they're being critical of Martin:

I don't have to be nice to someone who tells a million people or more to fuck off. Neither should you.

Then GRRM should have had "I may not bother finishing this series read at your own risk" on the cover of the fist book and then we wouldn't be here as far less people would have paid money for it.

If you start a book series those who buy it pay money on the promise of it's completion.

Be honest, how many projects did you start in the mid 90s that you've kept at till now?

As a writer, I have works that I've chosen not to complete because my (very small) fanbase turned into a pack of snarling fucking hyenas every time I hinted at a delay or retcon, and I realized that no matter what I released, people would bitch about it.

Some people - some of you - love your literature to the point of mental instability. Cut it the fuck out.

GRRM has neither legal nor moral obligation to finish the story. He might not, and frankly I hope he puts down the pen and says "Nope, retiring, fuck all y'all.". You knew what you were signing up for when you bought the first book; that it may never be completed, so that's your own risk.

I don't understand this frothing fervor some of you have regarding storytelling. The fans and critics of literature are among the most aggressive, whether they love it or hate it. I really don't get it!

This further confirms my suspicions that Martin is going to have Winds of Winter released just before season 5 is, as many fans will rush to buy it (more so than usual) in case they believe that season 5 will spoil later events in the books.

However, I think it would be optimistic for me to predict he'll release A Dream Of Spring before season 6, but this could have been his master plan all along.

As much as I would be gutted if Martin didn't finish the series, and the ending was left to the D&D (who clearly are good at adapting Martin's material, but most of their attempts at diverging from it have been horrid), I respect the fact that as a writer you cannot make yourself sit down and write if you do not feel inspired.

Oh, I was under the impression he'd pull away from the series and let them do their own thing while the books went on about their own business. I've only ever watched the show so no real problem with what he chooses to do.

Wereduck:
To the "he has no obligation" crowd:
Yeah, and I have no obligation, legal, moral or hygenic, to refrain from spitting on the sidewalk in front of every person I pass on the street. That doesn't mean it's okay for me to do it or that other people would be out of line for calling me a dick.
GRRM has created a serialized work of art that many people care about deeply and he's made a great deal of money because of people's investment in the series. If he can't find time to write that's one thing and if he didn't realize how much of his time the series would take or how much it would burn him out on Westeros that's another thing; I truly sympathize. Nevertheless if he abandons ASoIaF in mid-stream for other projects his fans have every right to flame him for leaving them hanging. He's a grown-ass man, he knows what his fans want and he's smart enough to know that giving them something else will not be appreciated.

He has no obligation, and your not him.

It is not easy to constantly write a book series, and if you keep trying, you will eventually burn out sooner or later, which gives you writers block towards that series.

So no, your opinion is entirely worthless to him. If he wants to finish the series, he will. However no writer has ever written a good book by forcing them-self to finish it.

Exterminas:
Sometimes it seems like George is the only person on this planet who still thinks that he will have a say in how the series or the books will end.

That is an absurd statement. That is like saying with Full Metal Alchemist, when the original anime completely went on a different direction due to refusing to wait for the author, the author would have no say on the series anymore simply because an adaption has gone in a different one.

An 'adaption' has no say in a series. Only the original can speak of its own series, because to think otherwise is idiocy. So yeah, he still has a say, unless he dies and someone else finishes his series AKA. What happened with Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy.

Lunncal:

FalloutJack:
Geez, it took this long of me saying "Get back to work" before he decides to actually try finishing the damn series, hearing this bull he shovels at the fans all the time. Well, we know damn sure if he dies, it won't with him, 'cause he's not just an ass, but a lazy ass.

Woah, how rude? This guy doesn't owe you anything, he's not obligated to finish his book series at all, what gives you the right to call him a lazy ass?

OT: Makes sense. It seems to me that the show is going completely off in its own direction anyway[1], so I'd imagine the author's input is becoming less and less relevant. At any rate, if it means the books will come out faster, this is good news to me. I've all but given up on the TV show at this point, sadly.

Look God likes finished book series. So if Martin keeps stalling he'll do what he did to Jordan and replace him with Sanderson

[1]

Rainbow_Dashtruction:

Wereduck:
To the "he has no obligation" crowd:
Yeah, and I have no obligation, legal, moral or hygenic, to refrain from spitting on the sidewalk in front of every person I pass on the street. That doesn't mean it's okay for me to do it or that other people would be out of line for calling me a dick.
GRRM has created a serialized work of art that many people care about deeply and he's made a great deal of money because of people's investment in the series. If he can't find time to write that's one thing and if he didn't realize how much of his time the series would take or how much it would burn him out on Westeros that's another thing; I truly sympathize. Nevertheless if he abandons ASoIaF in mid-stream for other projects his fans have every right to flame him for leaving them hanging. He's a grown-ass man, he knows what his fans want and he's smart enough to know that giving them something else will not be appreciated.

He has no obligation, and your not him.

It is not easy to constantly write a book series, and if you keep trying, you will eventually burn out sooner or later, which gives you writers block towards that series.

So no, your opinion is entirely worthless to him. If he wants to finish the series, he will. However no writer has ever written a good book by forcing them-self to finish it.

Credit where it's due, at least you realized that my statement wasn't about the legalities of spitting in public.
That said, I did say that I sympathize about burnout and I didn't say thathe should bear down & finish it or that my opinion should matter to him. The truth is I haven't read any of ASoIaF but I have read all of the Dune books, including the recent prequels, and I agree that he shouldn't rush them lest Westeros go the way of Arrakis before it.
My point is that the "no obligation" argument is a crock and arguably a strawman. Martin owes everything he has to his fans and they're completely justified in being upset (death threats & harassment, of course, still not okay). It's a testament to his skill as a writer and the emotional investment people have made in his work - an investment that he should feel obligated to make good on as a matter of professionalism.
As long as we're on the subject of me not being a writer though, it's "you're not him" and "themselves" (no hyphen).

Wereduck:

Rainbow_Dashtruction:

Wereduck:
To the "he has no obligation" crowd:
Yeah, and I have no obligation, legal, moral or hygenic, to refrain from spitting on the sidewalk in front of every person I pass on the street. That doesn't mean it's okay for me to do it or that other people would be out of line for calling me a dick.
GRRM has created a serialized work of art that many people care about deeply and he's made a great deal of money because of people's investment in the series. If he can't find time to write that's one thing and if he didn't realize how much of his time the series would take or how much it would burn him out on Westeros that's another thing; I truly sympathize. Nevertheless if he abandons ASoIaF in mid-stream for other projects his fans have every right to flame him for leaving them hanging. He's a grown-ass man, he knows what his fans want and he's smart enough to know that giving them something else will not be appreciated.

He has no obligation, and your not him.

It is not easy to constantly write a book series, and if you keep trying, you will eventually burn out sooner or later, which gives you writers block towards that series.

So no, your opinion is entirely worthless to him. If he wants to finish the series, he will. However no writer has ever written a good book by forcing them-self to finish it.

Credit where it's due, at least you realized that my statement wasn't about the legalities of spitting in public.
That said, I did say that I sympathize about burnout and I didn't say thathe should bear down & finish it or that my opinion should matter to him. The truth is I haven't read any of ASoIaF but I have read all of the Dune books, including the recent prequels, and I agree that he shouldn't rush them lest Westeros go the way of Arrakis before it.
My point is that the "no obligation" argument is a crock and arguably a strawman. Martin owes everything he has to his fans and they're completely justified in being upset (death threats & harassment, of course, still not okay). It's a testament to his skill as a writer and the emotional investment people have made in his work - an investment that he should feel obligated to make good on as a matter of professionalism.
As long as we're on the subject of me not being a writer though, it's "you're not him" and "themselves" (no hyphen).

But as I have already said: Obligated or not, if a writer forces himself to write, its unlikely to be a book worth reading anyhow.

Rainbow_Dashtruction:

But as I have already said: Obligated or not, if a writer forces himself to write, its unlikely to be a book worth reading anyhow.

Allow me to interject, if you please. Rainbow, nobody is - nor can or would, in reality - holding up a knife to the man's neck, so to speak, and saying "Get to work.". He did it to himself. It's all very well and good that he's paid close attention to the show that we get these great episodes, but in the meantime he was allowing it to close in on the books that are undone. When he made the announcement that the whole shebang should die with him, he imposed a time limit upon himself and his work, and the grim statement naturally made others wonder about his health and ability to finish said work when he is his age and not getting any younger. And instead of reassuring his fans in any way, he tells them to fuck off. It was never a case of overloading him like people expect him to be a story-building machine. If you want it in machine terms, it's like wondering how long this one printing press that handles the Daily Planet news will last and why it doesn't do much work at all.

To sum up: He did it to himself and then he was an ass about it when the so-called pressure was on.

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