Games Workshop Profits Down 24%, CEO Happy

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Silentpony:
Well maybe you need to simplify the fucking game, eh?!
I mean look at your list of rules! Its impenetrable! -1 points for new players.
The models are too damn expensive! -1 point for all players
The new codexes are absolutely terrible. I mean GW made Ork boyz useless! -1 point for new players and -5 points for veteran players who sank money into units that are terrible now.

I have a friend I play with - he USED to play orks. Green tide. 2000pts worth of boyz, stormboyz, lootas, etc...Just waves of infantry. And he's giving up the entire army because he's being chewed to mulch every game. The new codex made 3/4 of his army unplayable, never mind tournaments. Does anyone play test the new rules? Or just eyeball, yeah that looks fine, start selling.

GW is spending all its efforts on making giant robots and abandoning every other army; its cheap, lazy, disrespectful and it's coming back to bite them in the ass. I shudder to think what they're going to do to Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Grey Knights.

The rules are largely fine, and the codex's have actually improved from marines straight up dominating like they were for a long time. The problem now a days, is really just coming down to the price of their models. They're going to price themselves out of the market if they keep it up. Also... their dumb ass copy right policy is hurting them a lot.

Drop your prices by about 20%, I guarantee you'll see a jump in profits over time because people could afford more for their addictions... I mean habit... hobby. Honestly GW if you're happy with a drop in profit you should be happy dropping prices.
There's a reason why I switched to Privateer Press and Warmachine (aside from the awesome game universe and models), they may not be super cheap compared to GW but there is considerably less investment needed to have a starter army.

More like drop them by 50%, make the rules less incomprehensible and balance the different factions better (and stop changing things and randomly ruining peoples efforts).

I would like to see a PC version of the TT game though, DoW is fun but not quite what I'd like to see. It'd be cheaper and people would buy it (just don't section things out and overcharge like MTG), hell tie it in properly with the actual TT game you'd probably get people buying both (depending if you make the TT actually accessible). Since this is what it seems Warmachine is doing, but they don't have Necrons otherwise I'd be all over it.

Ironman126:

Silentpony:
SNIP

Ahem. What do you mean "going to do" to Space Wolves and Grey Knights? They let Matt Ward molest the Grey Knights years ago and they never recovered from the trauma. As for the Space Wolves, just look at the GW webstore. They got a new flyer... for $81 a pop. Or, for the low, low price of $162, you can have two!

Besides that, everything you said is spot on. Though, I think the prices may be more of a -10 to all players.

GW is a sickly company. They have been led by blind, arrogant, and paranoid men for too long and I don't think they will really ever recover. I got into 40k about a year ago and the prices have already gone up a minimum of 25% across the board. Add on top of that the fact that all GW does now days is make those idiotic mini-titans and release new rules every year and a half. I'm kind of regretting sinking the $400 I did into the game.

When it comes to prices, and this may sound incredibly stupid, but I only buy Forge World and off eBay. I play Legion, and Forge World is the only part of the company that seems to care. And when laid out the pricing of Forge World bits isn't that much more than GW. It takes me a little longer to build up an army, but damn it, its a army worth playing from people who enjoy playing the game!

The more I read about GW as a whole, the more I'm convinced that GW views 40k as an annoyance. A stepchild from a previous marriage it now has to care for, rather than the flagship of the entire company.

And as far as the Grey Knights go, yes they're bad now, I'm just worried they'll become even worse.

See, shit like this is why I bought Warmachine figures.

Miniatures have become more expensive. I played the game in 1999 and prices have more than doubled since then - vastly outpacing inflation during the same time period. People simply cannot afford to play the game anymore.

Xan Krieger:
Want money? Make Space Marine 2, many of us would love it. Yes THQ is gone but still surely someone can pick up where they left off.

No kidding. Space Marine was a great game concept and somehow people were "worn out on chainswords."

Take that model and go a bit more openworld, you could play every race on the same general mechanics, as it covered melee and ranged combat. Could you imagine a whole game of genestealers vs ork vs imperial guard?

Cutting jobs is just a bandage, not a solution. It may help in the short term but they will have to do more in order to reverse their downward spiral.

Soooooo, Games Workshops profits are DOWN by 24%...
.....despite cutting out a whole mess of management jobs, nerfing every last store down to a one-man operation, and "streamlining" distribution...
And the CEO acknowledges that GW wastes tons of money fighting idiotic IP protection battles that they actually CAN'T win.
He acknowledges that losing THQ and not having been able to replace them has lost them a MASSIVE chunk of their profits (which apparently used to come from royalty payments generated from licensing their IP's to THQ...).

And the CEO is......happy?
He thinks everything is going well.
Oh, and he's stepping down as CEO without having anyone ready to replace him.

What the hell-spawned kind of warp-logic does this company run on??

I'm pretty sure GW is EA-level crazy-stupid, except that GW actually makes cool stuff.
I can't figure out how either company stays in business. It's an enduring mystery.

What's that GW? I can't hear you over my Malifaux game.

This saddens me. I've gotten really interested in the Warhammer 40K universe, and to see it's future in jeopardy... sigh.

In fact, I'm one of the young, new fans GW should be attracting. I've got a solid background of tabletops and RPGs, and I'd love to try learning Warhammer, but I haven't even looked at prices because why bother? The CURRENT players of Warhammer are talking about how the prices are insane; if people in the market are pointing out how prices are double, triple what they used to be, it instantly repels me. I'm going to be going to college; I have no income. I can only hope that GW survives to produce more cool videogames, which are at least affordable, until I reach an age where my credit is good enough to buy a starter pack, because by then prices should probably be double or triple what they are now!

Eh, people have been complaining that the models are too expensive, the rules are rubbish and that GW is going to die for many years now. The company still staggers on.

It's a bit of a sad joke now, yeah, but it's still making money...like many other holders of franchises that used to be good.

Jamieson 90:
Of all GW's games Necromunda was the cheapest and by far the best. Unlike Warhammer or 40k all you needed was a gang of 10-14 men, possibly up to 20 if you wanted a fully converted gang so you didn't have to worry about weapon restrictions. Unfortunately, like a lot of GW's specialist games, Necromunda was phased out years ago and you can't even buy the models on their special mail order service since they don't even make them anymore.

You can still buy the old lead models off eBay though; you can get yourself a gang of 8-12 men for around £50 which is still way cheaper then what you'll pay for Warhammer or 40k models. I've not played it for years but I'm currently in the process of doing up a Goliath gang. My latest project has been to work on the heavies.

You could buy them online up til they updated their site a few months ago...though what was available had steadily dropped off.

Personally, I'd recommend getting a box of plastic guard or cultists and converting them, rather than trying to find the originals.

Is it bad that based on the title, I immediately pictured the CEO going 'Profits are down? Good, that probably means filthy casuals arent playing anymore'

>.>
<.<

Xan Krieger:
Want money? Make Space Marine 2, many of us would love it. Yes THQ is gone but still surely someone can pick up where they left off.

Yes. This. Also with a more interesting chapter. If you want to still avoid any risks, do it with space wolves, because nobody, NOT ONE PERSON, could possible hate viking werewolves IN SPACE.

Hell, I doubt they'd dare to, but I'd love it if they did it from a chaos marine standpoint.

I love how GW is so protective about their IP when it comes to video games, but is more than happy to see it dragged through the mud with crappy to mediocre junk like Storm of Vengeance, the recent Space Hulk and Kill Team. They are sitting on one of the most gaming-friendly IP out there, they just need to give it to a competent developer and let them go crazy with it. And it will print money. But no, we're getting Eternal Crusade, Regicide, Drop Assault and a few more cheap-ass iOS trash games. Yeah, go with that GW, don't try reviving Dawn of War, continuing Space Marine or maybe getting someone to make that Inquisition RPG that tons of people have been dreaming of for years. The only potential light at the end of the tunnel at the moment is the next Space Hulk, and even that light isn't all that bright...

Woah, I clicked here through the Facebook link, which is titled:

Games Workshop CEO is happy with cutting their staff dramatically.

Since when did the Escapist sink to British tabloid level of deceptive reporting? -10 respect from me, I'm afraid.

On the most basic level, there are two ways for a company to boost profit - increasing income, or cutting costs. Would you be happy with your profit being split to the four winds because you have an ineffective corporate structure that adds no value? There's "being a nice guy" and then there's "being a realistic businessman". The business turns profit, and so restructuring should enable it to grow in the future. Sure, it sucks for anyone being let go, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. This is not, as it's painted out to be, the actions of an evil mad Lord Business cutting jobs for shiggles.

Besides, I seem to remember a particular website going through financial difficulties, and paying their video contributors with IOUs at one stage. People in glass houses, yeah?

Zykon TheLich:

It's not actually that expensive to get into for little Timmy in off the street. Starter set is £65, comes with the rules, scenario booklet, dice, Templates and 2 armies (48 models). Initially it looks pretty reasonable, compared to say Warmachine which is £75 and only gives you 17 models (+ the rules etc). It's the add ons that get expensive. First they get you hooked on cheap samples, then they jack up the price. That's how they work, they aren't completely stupid.

Actually mate, it is quite expensive. Little Timmy probably doesn't have £65 burning a hole in his pocket and even if he did he'd have to buy glue, paints, brushes and a craft knife (provided he doesn't have one of those already) unless he wanted to spend all day staring at the models on the sprue and wondering what might be. That's going to cost him at the very least another £10. More like £15 since they've bumped the prices up again. Then once he's done that Timmy has sunk almost £80 into having 2 small armies, of which he can only play one side at a time and hasn't got the codex to access either army's special rules or unit lists.

If he wants to continue his hobby (let's assume with the SPHESS MEHREENS since they're almost certainly in the starter set and the now lone employee in the shop has told Timmy SPHESS MEHREENS ARE THE BEST EVAR*) little Timmy will have to fork out about £20 on the codex bringing him up to £100 just to get into the game properly. He now has 2 armies, one of which won't get played with, and two books. If he wants to take it further that'll cost him even more.

*Just out of interest did any of you have this problem at GW? I collected Imperial Guard myself and asked the staff what was the best thing to start them off with, the man told me, "A Space Marine Tacticsl Squad." and wouldn't budge from his conviction that an Imperial Guard army should start off with some Space Marines. Just wondering if it's happened to you lot too becaus a couple of my friends (Ork and Necron players) said they had the same problem.

Verlander:
Since when did the Escapist sink to British tabloid level of deceptive reporting? -10 respect from me, I'm afraid.

Er...years ago?

It used to be worse, but they cleaned it up a for bit, though the problem never really went away and they seem to be backsliding.

The Harkinator:
*Just out of interest did any of you have this problem at GW? I collected Imperial Guard myself and asked the staff what was the best thing to start them off with, the man told me, "A Space Marine Tacticsl Squad." and wouldn't budge from his conviction that an Imperial Guard army should start off with some Space Marines. Just wondering if it's happened to you lot too becaus a couple of my friends (Ork and Necron players) said they had the same problem.

Well...in fairness, they are the best to start off with, being cheap and easy to use. And almost everyone plays them. And this ed you can have marines in your guard army anyway.

Despite GW's efforts, there are some nice 3D printer files for making your own minis. Downside is you need a top end printer to get the details right.

(captcha: steve holt)

Alexei F. Karamazov:
This saddens me. I've gotten really interested in the Warhammer 40K universe, and to see it's future in jeopardy... sigh.

In fact, I'm one of the young, new fans GW should be attracting. I've got a solid background of tabletops and RPGs, and I'd love to try learning Warhammer, but I haven't even looked at prices because why bother? The CURRENT players of Warhammer are talking about how the prices are insane; if people in the market are pointing out how prices are double, triple what they used to be, it instantly repels me. I'm going to be going to college; I have no income. I can only hope that GW survives to produce more cool videogames, which are at least affordable, until I reach an age where my credit is good enough to buy a starter pack, because by then prices should probably be double or triple what they are now!

This is nothing new for Games Workshop. complete unfathomable business insanity is their standard operating model and has been for over a decade.
40k is like 25 years old.
It's not going anywhere.

thaluikhain:

Well...in fairness, they are the best to start off with, being cheap and easy to use. And almost everyone plays them. And this ed you can have marines in your guard army anyway.

You can (could with previous editions too, they got put under the banner of the inquisition) but why would you want to? Get them Mary Sue smurfs out of my army, battle cannons will sort them out *grumble*grumble*grumble*

The Harkinator:

thaluikhain:

Well...in fairness, they are the best to start off with, being cheap and easy to use. And almost everyone plays them. And this ed you can have marines in your guard army anyway.

You can (could with previous editions too, they got put under the banner of the inquisition) but why would you want to? Get them Mary Sue smurfs out of my army, battle cannons will sort them out *grumble*grumble*grumble*

You could use Grey Knights in guard, or Deathwatch, not regular marines in regular guard armies.

I guess you'd want to to avoid having to carry zillions of guard models around. Also, each squad or vehicle is worth one kill point, a platoon of guard might cost the same as one tactical squad, but is worth 3 times as much to the enemy to destroy.

I hate GW but love their products and i doubt im the only one with that opinion. As a result when i buy GW miniatures i usually paint them with other brand paints as a point of principle, only using GW paints when there is no other option. Mostly because they charge the same for a 12ml pot of paint that every other firm does for 17ml.

A little more customer friendly buisness practices and i'm sure they might change my (and other would-be customers) perceptions.

I honestly hope they go under. So long as other companies are quick to pick the bones and buy off GW's IPs, the world will have lost nothing.

Ieyke:
Soooooo, Games Workshops profits are DOWN by 24%...
.....despite cutting out a whole mess of management jobs, nerfing every last store down to a one-man operation, and "streamlining" distribution...
And the CEO acknowledges that GW wastes tons of money fighting idiotic IP protection battles that they actually CAN'T win.
He acknowledges that losing THQ and not having been able to replace them has lost them a MASSIVE chunk of their profits (which apparently used to come from royalty payments generated from licensing their IP's to THQ...).

And the CEO is......happy?
He thinks everything is going well.
Oh, and he's stepping down as CEO without having anyone ready to replace him.

What the hell-spawned kind of warp-logic does this company run on??

I'm pretty sure GW is EA-level crazy-stupid, except that GW actually makes cool stuff.
I can't figure out how either company stays in business. It's an enduring mystery.

EA stays profitable thanks to the yearly "same game with updated roster" EA Sports games, everything else could stop selling and they'd still make a profit just from the sports games (at least according to what I've read).

Anyhow, judging by the declining profits, it's just a matter of time before GW can no longer break even. It's a shame, since - like you said - they make some pretty cool stuff. It's just a great IP, that I personally like because of the video games - not the board games.

And since those are just bad, now that THQ is no more, better management of their IP to developers is desperately needed. I mean they're sitting on this:


Regardless of how that game turns out, this is an IP full of things that are suited for making damn good games - and, come to think of it, movies.

Simply trusting the IP with, and hiring, great developers could make the Warhammer 40K IP a major player in damn near every gaming genre, allowing them to drop prices and grow - rather than slowly shrink, by continuously raising prices. (Edited for the sake of my inner grammar Nazi!)

The Harkinator:

Actually mate, it is quite expensive. Little Timmy probably doesn't have £65 burning a hole in his pocket and even if he did he'd have to buy glue, paints, brushes and a craft knife (provided he doesn't have one of those already) unless he wanted to spend all day staring at the models on the sprue and wondering what might be. That's going to cost him at the very least another £10. More like £15 since they've bumped the prices up again. Then once he's done that Timmy has sunk almost £80 into having 2 small armies, of which he can only play one side at a time and hasn't got the codex to access either army's special rules or unit lists.

If he wants to continue his hobby (let's assume with the SPHESS MEHREENS since they're almost certainly in the starter set and the now lone employee in the shop has told Timmy SPHESS MEHREENS ARE THE BEST EVAR*) little Timmy will have to fork out about £20 on the codex bringing him up to £100 just to get into the game properly. He now has 2 armies, one of which won't get played with, and two books. If he wants to take it further that'll cost him even more.

Eh, £65/£80, it's £15 difference (& they're snap fix, no glue needed). It's not like you don't need those things for other tabletop games. Also, when did little Timmy have £40 for the latest call of duty? He still gets it.

Yes, that's what I said.

Zykon TheLich:
It's the add ons that get expensive. First they get you hooked on cheap samples, then they jack up the price.

Jandau:
I love how GW is so protective about their IP when it comes to video games, but is more than happy to see it dragged through the mud with crappy to mediocre junk like Storm of Vengeance, the recent Space Hulk and Kill Team. They are sitting on one of the most gaming-friendly IP out there, they just need to give it to a competent developer and let them go crazy with it. And it will print money. But no, we're getting Eternal Crusade, Regicide, Drop Assault and a few more cheap-ass iOS trash games. Yeah, go with that GW, don't try reviving Dawn of War, continuing Space Marine or maybe getting someone to make that Inquisition RPG that tons of people have been dreaming of for years. The only potential light at the end of the tunnel at the moment is the next Space Hulk, and even that light isn't all that bright...

Oh yeh that one thing that i just do not get, perfect ip but gets wasted with random assholes. Dawn of war needs a 3rd game. Space Marine needs a sequal and perhaps have dedicated servers. Eternal Crusade mmo sounds good and the early gameplay it just looks like Space Marine but bigger scale. Space Hulk was total ass, have more fun playing the board game the mission were the same it was pointless. The old PS1 Space Hulk fps was sooo much better and creepy.

Not sure why ppl hated on DoW2 so much was great my marines did not feel so expendable.

major_chaos:
Just stop GW. I have yet to find a tabletop that is anywhere near as fun to build, play or read as 40k, you have one of the most fun IPs around, one that was been a source of many great books and games, and yet you happily throw that all away by finding the worst possible business decision and sticking with it. Reduce prices, get more than one person per store, get some quality devs to make 40k video games, and stop dicking over third party retailers. This isn't rocket science, and the plummeting profit margins should make it clear what you are doing now isn't working.

Warmachine is a fun and very tight squad based game that won't run you 150+ to get started.

See what I just did GW, no one says that about your game anymore.

Gundam GP01:
See, shit like this is why I bought Warmachine figures.

You. I like you.

I can get a 1/144 gundam model kit for below 15 Euros.. with atleast the same amount of material usage then a GW tank, wich is posable like an action figure and is actually quite big.. not to mention they usually come with lots of accessoires.

Meanwhile a mere predator tank costs up to 40 euros and is essentially a block with bits sticking out that was made unnecesarly complicated to put together.

Did i mention that YOU NEED NO GLUE to build gundam model kits? They have poly caps.

Shame that there are no Table top rules for them.

Games workshop is constantly shooting itselfe in the foot and now kirby comes out and applauds himselfe as captain having thrown aboard crewmembers when the bloody ship is sinking slowly into the ocean?

See people.. that happens when you let a bunch of manchildren without any real idea how to run a business... run a business.

Their absolute toxic attitudes against 3rd party vendors doesnt really help them either... as a business that produces wares my first priority would be to make my wares as much available as possible to the broadest audience possible.

Thought nowadays if you even want some of the new models you have to drive miles to the next games workshop store cause no 3rd party store is allowed to get them.

And then theres the prizing that only knows the way up while the quality (crapcast) of their products keeps declining further and further.

Or how about suing internet fanpages out of existance for "violating copyrights" or suing people for using the word "Space marine" in their books?

In other words Kirby is pissing on his company and tells everyone its raining.

How about dropping prices for all the reasons people mentioned, and stop just focusing mainly on the Imperial factions in 40k.

chozo_hybrid:
How about dropping prices for all the reasons people mentioned, and stop just focusing mainly on the Imperial factions in 40k.

Ward loves his Ultrasmurfs and Grey Knights too much.

008Zulu:

chozo_hybrid:
How about dropping prices for all the reasons people mentioned, and stop just focusing mainly on the Imperial factions in 40k.

Ward loves his Ultrasmurfs and Grey Knights too much.

And that's fine, I'm not saying pay less attention to them, just more to the other factions.

AstaresPanda:

Jandau:
I love how GW is so protective about their IP when it comes to video games, but is more than happy to see it dragged through the mud with crappy to mediocre junk like Storm of Vengeance, the recent Space Hulk and Kill Team. They are sitting on one of the most gaming-friendly IP out there, they just need to give it to a competent developer and let them go crazy with it. And it will print money. But no, we're getting Eternal Crusade, Regicide, Drop Assault and a few more cheap-ass iOS trash games. Yeah, go with that GW, don't try reviving Dawn of War, continuing Space Marine or maybe getting someone to make that Inquisition RPG that tons of people have been dreaming of for years. The only potential light at the end of the tunnel at the moment is the next Space Hulk, and even that light isn't all that bright...

Oh yeh that one thing that i just do not get, perfect ip but gets wasted with random assholes. Dawn of war needs a 3rd game. Space Marine needs a sequal and perhaps have dedicated servers. Eternal Crusade mmo sounds good and the early gameplay it just looks like Space Marine but bigger scale. Space Hulk was total ass, have more fun playing the board game the mission were the same it was pointless. The old PS1 Space Hulk fps was sooo much better and creepy.

Not sure why ppl hated on DoW2 so much was great my marines did not feel so expendable.

I wouldn't get my hopes up too much about Eternal Crusade, that game has been in development hell for too long, changed hands too much, changed direction too many times. It's pretty much doomed to be mediocre at best, and likely just straight up crap. It's a game that failed and now it's stillborn corpse is being reanimated into something resembling a game to recoup at least some of the money that went into it.

As for DoW2, people hated it because they changed it too much. It was a good game, a very good game, but it should have been a spinoff or a new brand. It was more of an RPG than an RTS and was a major departure from the previous games, which a lot of people hoping for a modern rendition of the classic game just weren't interested in.

I'd play the game as-is if the prices came down on the minis. I'm an old, geritol-gobbling bastard and remember when a pack of 20 marines sold for $20. In proper corvus helmets, none of this Mark 7 malarky. What, didja run into a wall? YA LOOK LIKE A PUG, YA RIDICULOUS EXCUSE FOR THE EMP'RAZ FINEST.

Where was I? Oh right. 20 models for $20 dollars. A rules book which ran $50 and was considered exorbitant. An honest day's pay for an honest day's work. A chicken in every pot.

DAMMIT, YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN OR THERE'LL BE A HIDING! DON'T THINK I DON'T SEE YOU BACK THERE!

*grumble grumble*

All that being said, they really could do with revising their rules from scratch. Like tabula rasa that shit and start over beginning with a careful consideration of what scale of battle they want to be promoting. Necromunda and Mordheim hewed very tightly to the idea of small squad combat and the level of details in the rules reflected that. Those games never dragged, they were almost like a decent board game. Contrast that with umpty-thousand point battles in WH40k, when it takes how long for a single side to play? Surely we can agree that glacial pacing cannot have been part of the original intent of the game.

The only game I can think of that is more systematically broken was Car Wars. ( um, again, the old Steve Jackson version, not the newer revisions )

(because I'm old)

(*grumble*)

Jandau:

I wouldn't get my hopes up too much about Eternal Crusade, that game has been in development hell for too long, changed hands too much, changed direction too many times. It's pretty much doomed to be mediocre at best, and likely just straight up crap. It's a game that failed and now it's stillborn corpse is being reanimated into something resembling a game to recoup at least some of the money that went into it.

Could I trouble you for sources? Because I know that Dark Millennium ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000:_Dark_Millennium ) had been kicking around for quite some time and has been canceled, but I thought Eternal Crusade ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000:_Eternal_Crusade ) was a new project. Are the two related?

Not challenging, just curious.

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