Games Workshop Profits Down 24%, CEO Happy

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Elijah Newton:

Jandau:

I wouldn't get my hopes up too much about Eternal Crusade, that game has been in development hell for too long, changed hands too much, changed direction too many times. It's pretty much doomed to be mediocre at best, and likely just straight up crap. It's a game that failed and now it's stillborn corpse is being reanimated into something resembling a game to recoup at least some of the money that went into it.

Could I trouble you for sources? Because I know that Dark Millennium ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000:_Dark_Millennium ) had been kicking around for quite some time and has been canceled, but I thought Eternal Crusade ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000:_Eternal_Crusade ) was a new project. Are the two related?

Not challenging, just curious.

As far as I'm aware, Eternal Crusade is a retooled/rebranded Dark Millennium, though I'd love to be wrong here...

Jandau:

AstaresPanda:

Jandau:
I love how GW is so protective about their IP when it comes to video games, but is more than happy to see it dragged through the mud with crappy to mediocre junk like Storm of Vengeance, the recent Space Hulk and Kill Team. They are sitting on one of the most gaming-friendly IP out there, they just need to give it to a competent developer and let them go crazy with it. And it will print money. But no, we're getting Eternal Crusade, Regicide, Drop Assault and a few more cheap-ass iOS trash games. Yeah, go with that GW, don't try reviving Dawn of War, continuing Space Marine or maybe getting someone to make that Inquisition RPG that tons of people have been dreaming of for years. The only potential light at the end of the tunnel at the moment is the next Space Hulk, and even that light isn't all that bright...

Oh yeh that one thing that i just do not get, perfect ip but gets wasted with random assholes. Dawn of war needs a 3rd game. Space Marine needs a sequal and perhaps have dedicated servers. Eternal Crusade mmo sounds good and the early gameplay it just looks like Space Marine but bigger scale. Space Hulk was total ass, have more fun playing the board game the mission were the same it was pointless. The old PS1 Space Hulk fps was sooo much better and creepy.

Not sure why ppl hated on DoW2 so much was great my marines did not feel so expendable.

I wouldn't get my hopes up too much about Eternal Crusade, that game has been in development hell for too long, changed hands too much, changed direction too many times. It's pretty much doomed to be mediocre at best, and likely just straight up crap. It's a game that failed and now it's stillborn corpse is being reanimated into something resembling a game to recoup at least some of the money that went into it.

As for DoW2, people hated it because they changed it too much. It was a good game, a very good game, but it should have been a spinoff or a new brand. It was more of an RPG than an RTS and was a major departure from the previous games, which a lot of people hoping for a modern rendition of the classic game just weren't interested in.

Eternal Crusade is a new game its not what the guys at VigilGames were working on before it went to shit along with THQ.

I remember GW was the best in high school and college but now it is just sad. I mean I am making much more than I was in high school and I am not even trying to buy more or get people into it. It sucks because I still love nerding over the lore because Orks iz best but I will not suggest it to even my more well to do friends.

Honestly the only thing will get me hyped for GW would be a Warhammer 40K game in the vein of Stars Wars BattleFront with all the factions available but that is not happening so it will be a dream.

Silentpony:

Ironman126:

Silentpony:
SNIP

snip

When it comes to prices, and this may sound incredibly stupid, but I only buy Forge World and off eBay. I play Legion, and Forge World is the only part of the company that seems to care. And when laid out the pricing of Forge World bits isn't that much more than GW. It takes me a little longer to build up an army, but damn it, its a army worth playing from people who enjoy playing the game!

The more I read about GW as a whole, the more I'm convinced that GW views 40k as an annoyance. A stepchild from a previous marriage it now has to care for, rather than the flagship of the entire company.

And as far as the Grey Knights go, yes they're bad now, I'm just worried they'll become even worse.

I had considered buying Forge World stuff a short while back, but I couldn't really justify the purchases based on pricing, but then again, I couldn't do that for the Citadel models, either. I have to say, I really like the products Forge World puts out. Buying off Ebay is definitely the way to go. Any chance I get to screw GW out of some money and still get to play the game is a in my books.

As for GW and their attitude towards 40k, you're hitting the nail on the head. To be honest, I'm not sure that GW really wants to have any of their IPs anymore. The way they basically ignore Fantasy and Lord of the Rings (or The Hobbit, whatever they're calling it these days), you'd think they were trying to move towards the business model of "We want people to just give us money so we don't have to maintain any IPs."

I like how people in this thread are basically encourage tabletop piracy....

Ironman126:
Buying off Ebay is definitely the way to go. Any chance I get to screw GW out of some money and still get to play the game is a in my books.

Yep, real subtle there guys.

GW is in so much damage control mode that it's laughable.

They really need to invigorate the 40k IP because it being stuck in the 80's is showing a lot these days.

Antigonius:
I like how people in this thread are basically encourage tabletop piracy....

Ironman126:
Buying off Ebay is definitely the way to go. Any chance I get to screw GW out of some money and still get to play the game is a in my books.

Yep, real subtle there guys.

I don't quite see how buying second hand models or rules off Ebay is in any way piracy. They are a physical product that can be sold on to anyone the owner wishes.

1 guy mentioned 3d printers in a way that might be taken as "ha, ha, just print your own", but that's about it.

Zykon TheLich:

Antigonius:
I like how people in this thread are basically encourage tabletop piracy....

Ironman126:
Buying off Ebay is definitely the way to go. Any chance I get to screw GW out of some money and still get to play the game is a in my books.

Yep, real subtle there guys.

I don't quite see how buying second hand models or rules off Ebay is in any way piracy. They are a physical product that can be sold on to anyone the owner wishes.

1 guy mentioned 3d printers in a way that might be taken as "ha, ha, just print your own", but that's about it.

Well some of us here thinks that doing the same (i.m buying second hand) with video games is piracy. + piracy is basically "ha, ha, just copy it!" Why should this be any different? Cause it's a model?

Antigonius:
Well some of us here thinks that doing the same (i.m buying second hand) with video games is piracy. + piracy is basically "ha, ha, just copy it!" Why should this be any different? Cause it's a model?

So was that more of a (very) subtle dig at people who think buying second hand videogames is piracy?

Antigonius:
I like how people in this thread are basically encourage tabletop piracy....

Ironman126:
Buying off Ebay is definitely the way to go. Any chance I get to screw GW out of some money and still get to play the game is a in my books.

Yep, real subtle there guys.

Buying used products is not piracy in any way. It's your right as a consumer to buy legally produced second hand products legally.

Now buying models from some shady guy in China that illegally recast models would be closer to piracy considering that they are actual bootleg productions.

Antigonius:

Zykon TheLich:

Antigonius:
I like how people in this thread are basically encourage tabletop piracy....

Yep, real subtle there guys.

I don't quite see how buying second hand models or rules off Ebay is in any way piracy. They are a physical product that can be sold on to anyone the owner wishes.

1 guy mentioned 3d printers in a way that might be taken as "ha, ha, just print your own", but that's about it.

Well some of us here thinks that doing the same (i.m buying second hand) with video games is piracy. + piracy is basically "ha, ha, just copy it!" Why should this be any different? Cause it's a model?

By that logic, buying a used car is also piracy. Buying a house from someone other than the original contractor is piracy. How insane does that sound? To me, that's a "100% all systems critical" on the Crazy-o-Meter. So, my question is this: how is buying a second hand model, video game, or any other product comparable in the least to digital goods piracy (or any other form of piracy)? The company selling the product has already gotten the money they expected to make out of the product, they no longer own any part of it beyond the Intellectual Property. What good reason is there to bar me from doing as I please with the product that I legitimately purchased from an authorized distributor? If I choose to resell that product in an auction or to a friend, what right does the company who made the product have to stop me? Would it also be vandalism if I decided to take a sledgehammer to the product?

Alexei F. Karamazov:
This saddens me. I've gotten really interested in the Warhammer 40K universe, and to see it's future in jeopardy... sigh.

In fact, I'm one of the young, new fans GW should be attracting. I've got a solid background of tabletops and RPGs, and I'd love to try learning Warhammer, but I haven't even looked at prices because why bother? The CURRENT players of Warhammer are talking about how the prices are insane; if people in the market are pointing out how prices are double, triple what they used to be, it instantly repels me. I'm going to be going to college; I have no income. I can only hope that GW survives to produce more cool videogames, which are at least affordable, until I reach an age where my credit is good enough to buy a starter pack, because by then prices should probably be double or triple what they are now!

Take heart young squire! This has been said about GW for at least 20 years. Yes it gets more expensive but money has decreased in value so its not as bad as people make out. Yes as a number it costs more now but your money has less spending power and you earn more of it with inflation so it is off set somewhat. As a business they raked it in when LOTRs was on the cinemas with their LOTR game, this will be hard to replicate, but theyre still profitable as a company.

Im too old to find 4 hours to be in the same place with my whole army as someone else so have given up on WHFB and 40k. I do however still play bloodbowl, both on line via PC and have 2 teams of minatures for tournament play. Its as strategic as anything else you will play and team development has a lovely RPG feel. Although GW has stopped supporting Bloodbowl there are lots of 3rd parties making models and there is a rabid tournament scene around the US and Europe. Its far more accessable money wise as teams are never more than 16 players and many squads come in at 11.

The rule book (Known as LRB6) is free on line, you will get a pitch (the game board) for around £30 for a good one and your team for around £30 depending on how elabourate you would like. Then its just dice with the only non-vanilla dice being "block dice" of which you need 3 (its a d6 with symbols over numbers.

Many of the smaller specialist games done by GW were far superior to its main games. Bloodbowl, Necromunda, Space Hulk, Mordenheim, Advances Hero Quest. Its a shame they have let them go but it does seem to mean more of them are getting faithful PC releases (Space Hulk is out as a conversion of the board game, Bloodbowl is about to be released as BB2 and Mordenheim is in developement)

Gennadios:
Translation: "Thanks to restructuring and downsizing, our profits are simply down instead of us operating at a loss. We're still bleeding money!"

Well, Games Workshop at least attended Economics 101: "When shit goes south, those with the highest costs are the first to go."

I suspect they will tread water at best going forward; the few left are a rabid fanbase, but actual growth isn't going to happen until they stop trying to gouge their customers so damn hard.

Antigonius:

Well some of us here thinks that doing the same (i.m buying second hand) with video games is piracy. + piracy is basically "ha, ha, just copy it!" Why should this be any different? Cause it's a model?

Why should it be any different?
Oh, I dunno.

Maybe the fact that the models are Regular Goods and not Information Goods and thus cannot be "pirated" in the first place. (no matter how hard you try to stretch that term, it will never be true)

Maybe the fact that First Sale Doctrine exists (and for good reason) and fully applies here.

Now, you're free to think whatever you want.
But know that thinking tangible goods work exactly the same as information goods is 100% wrong.

Copyright is 10 kinds of fucked up in today's age so lets not drag all regular physical goods into that quagmire too, mkay?

Antigonius:

Zykon TheLich:

Antigonius:
I like how people in this thread are basically encourage tabletop piracy....

Yep, real subtle there guys.

I don't quite see how buying second hand models or rules off Ebay is in any way piracy. They are a physical product that can be sold on to anyone the owner wishes.

1 guy mentioned 3d printers in a way that might be taken as "ha, ha, just print your own", but that's about it.

Well some of us here thinks that doing the same (i.m buying second hand) with video games is piracy. + piracy is basically "ha, ha, just copy it!" Why should this be any different? Cause it's a model?

In the eye of the law... yes.. yes it is different.

One is data, a medium that can be copied infinitly by everyone and their grandma by simply marking it in your browser, rightclicking and choosing "copy".

The other is a physical good of wich there is a limited amount that is not easaly copied without special equipment that the usual person doesnt have access to.

Same reason you can sell your old car the the used car salesman... or anything else you possess like a house.

You do know that you have the RIGHT to actually sell your physical goods that you bought with your own money right?

Right?

"What has him smiling is that Games Workshop has streamlined distribution, implemented its one man store policy, and cut huge chunks out of its middle management structure. Cutting costs and reducing risks, says Kirby, is key to Games Workshop's long term survival."

Translation: We've put a lot of people out of work.

Maybe if it didn't cost $500+ for a basic army. And then having to find someone else who spent $500+ on the game to play with...

One day when GWS shuts down we're all going to find it was one big troll on their part to see how long they could make all their poor sap customers suffer.

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