Bungie Axes Destiny's "Loot Cave" In Latest Hotfix

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Bungie Axes Destiny's "Loot Cave" In Latest Hotfix

Destiny Loot Cave

Bungie has fixed Destiny's Skywatch "loot cave" exploit, meaning players must go back to grinding to find the best gear.

Destiny hasn't been out for long, but players have quickly found ways to exploit gameplay in their favor. Perhaps the best example of this was the Skywatch's "loot cave", a small opening that constantly respawned low-level enemies if players stood far enough away. All one needed to do was keep your distance with a scoped weapon and you could scoop up gear from multiple enemies... until today that is. Bungie has finally corrected the exploit with its latest hotfix while offering a tongue-in-cheek explanation of what happened.

"The Hive of the holy 'Treasure Cave' have realized the futility of their endless assault on Skywatch," the patch notes read, "and have retired to lick their wounds and plan their next attack." More specifically, the hotfix notes state that respawn timers for several monster caves were increased to 40 seconds. Previous respawn timers ranged from 6-10 seconds.

Being able to gather a critical mass of loot quickly certainly has its appeal, but endless cave farming wasn't the social experience Bungie had in mind. In a Destiny Dev Note, Bungie explained its decision in more detail, stating that the high efficiencies of cave farming are now being reduced.

"The social experience of a cave farming run is amazing," the note reads, "the herding to get a team of Guardians all behind the line and firing in the right direction, the rush to grab the loot, the scramble when the panic wave starts, the beckoning glow from inside the cave. The speed at which the community organized around this activity was inspiring and humbling to us.

"But shooting at a black hole for hours on end isn't our dream for how Destiny is played," Bungie continues. "Our hope is that social engagement in public spaces is only one part of the Destiny experience. Expect changes soon which decrease the efficiency of cave farming and correspondingly increase engram drops from completing activities."

The change is incredibly significant for Destiny players, but it really shouldn't be too surprising. Players will have to go back to grinding for the Legendary drops they crave, at least until another clever exploit is discovered.

Source: Bungie

Permalink

This is the opposite of listening to criticism, Bungie.

Wow... that was, as I understand it, the only way you had a hope of getting gear and leveling your guns in a manner that was reasonably fast, if not entirely fun.

Bungie: They found a way to get gear without grinding the same missions hundreds of times... FIX IT NOW!
Player: What about the part where you fix the repetitive nature of the game.
Bungie: What now? No, that's not right. Our game if fun, I promise. Just play it some more.

Can I swear? I really want to swear. How about: Curse you Bungie! I would really like to know how Bungie expected us to get loot. It really seems like that didn't play their own game.

Ronack:
This is the opposite of listening to criticism, Bungie.

Yeah, that is what I thought. So them listening to the community means removing the part of the game that the community found and we were actually working together. Every time I when to farm everyone was super nice and considerate. We would take turns uses the ammo boxes and no one would stay in the cave to mess everyone else up.

My last run at the loot cave, lasted for about an hour and resulted in:

21 blue (rare) engrams and 1 purple (legendary) engram

The average PUG strike last 25 to 30 minutes, 20 minutes at best in a coordinated fire team. Typical drops after five strikes:

6-12 blue engrams, perhaps 1 purple in ten strikes (sometimes better,sometimes worse)

A crucible match typically lasts 15 to 20 minutes, drops in an hour?:

5-10 blue engrams, perhaps 1 purple in ten rounds

There is a reason everyone farmed the loot cave, Bungie. Take a card from Diablo and tighten up your godsdamned Skinner box or people will stop fucking pecking. Simple as that.

I don't think Bungie have ever made a game with loot mechanics and it shows.

"Shooting at a black hole for hours on end isn't our dream for how Destiny is played."
Oh, but shooting the same 6 bullet sponges you call bosses for hours is? Increasing difficulty by raising some numbers and mandating playing with others instead of implementing new mechanics is your dream?
I'm done with that game. If it ever gets a good story (and NOT through the paid expansions) then I might go back but till then screw them.

Bungie: We heard that people were farming mobs from a cave so we nerfed the exploit in a patch.

Me: Okay it was dull anyway. So are you going to fix the RNG and give us a better way to gear up?

Bungie: Oh hell no! That would require work and effort! Besides we spent all the $500 million budget on hyping the game and getting Peter Dinklage to read our first draft script...

Before everyone flips their shit they should probably go and read Bungie's post here.

In it they say they're going to increase loot drops from strikes and other things, as well as making strikes less grindy. Also a few other good things in there.

Game's still a steaming pile of mediocrity, but this isn't just them going "loot cave's gone go fuck yourselves".

You know what would be great as a form of "social engagement in a public place"? Some kind of IN-GAME LFG mechanism (perhaps where you can state what you're looking to do, your own perceived ability level, and how long you have to strike/raid... 30mins, 1hr, 2hr+ etc). I get why matchmaking the Nightfall strikes or the Vault of Glass would cause frustration for a PUG, but hell - I stare longingly at both those options but I just don't have enough time (I have limited gaming time) to cobble together a group outside of the game. Also I really really don't like adding strangers to my friends list. If this game franchise is to truly have 10+ year longevity, massive changes are needed to make it more MMO-like. I'm already exceptionally bored of running the same missions over and over and over and over with slightly different parameters - the excellent gunplay is why I keep coming back though.

gamegod25:

Bungie: Oh hell no! That would require work and effort! Besides we spent all the $500 million budget on hyping the game and getting Peter Dinklage to read our first draft script...

And then Dinklage went to Bungie and sat down for a quick reading. He was just going over the script out loud, really. Then, when he was finished, he went: "Okay, I'm ready to record!" And Bungie went: "naw, man. 'S coo. We already recorded."

Irridium:
Before everyone flips their shit they should probably go and read Bungie's post here.

In it they say they're going to increase loot drops from strikes and other things, as well as making strikes less grindy. Also a few other good things in there.

Game's still a steaming pile of mediocrity, but this isn't just them going "loot cave's gone go fuck yourselves".

Pretty much this, though I am personally still really enjoying the game. And honestly, the time I spent at the loot cave wasn't really all that extra productive compared to my time spent doing other things. Yes you could get slightly more loot drops (though the system itself is kinda broken and more drops doesn't at all mean better drops) but that's all you were getting. Doing other activities got you slightly less loot drops but actually gave marks and reputation that can be used to purchase items that are better than 99% of what you get from the loot cave anyway. Oh, and even if the other activities can be repetitive and grindy, they're still more fun that the loot cave was.

I'm glad to hear that Bungie is openly admitting to reassessing the loot system and activity rewards. Anyone who honestly expected the loot cave to not be squashed was, to put it mildly, kidding themselves.

What they NEED to do is fix the loot issue altogether! So far, I have gotten around 12 to 14 Legendary Engram drops. The very FIRST one.... netted me an EXOTIC HELM!!! Yaaaaaay!!! However, it was for a Warlock, and I am a frakking Hunter. Heartbreaking, to be sure. Well, since then, I have gotten around 13ish legendary drops, not sure on the exact number. But I AM sure of the results. Everyone of them, except one which was an UNCOMMON, were Rares. Not a single legendary, beyond the exotic that I couldnt even use for my class.

Sure, Bungie, it shouldnt RAIN loot.... but damn, if you get lucky enough to get an exotic out of a legendary engram, at least let it be class specific. Having a higher percentage chance of getting actual legendaries out of legendary engrams would sure be spiffy, too. /sigh

Fanghawk:
Bungie Axes Destiny's "Loot Cave" In Latest Hotfix

Destiny Loot Cave

Bungie has fixed Destiny's Skywatch "loot cave" exploit, meaning players must go back to grinding to find the best gear.

Destiny hasn't been out for long, but players have quickly found ways to exploit gameplay in their favor. Perhaps the best example of this was the Skywatch's "loot cave", a small opening that constantly respawned low-level enemies if players stood far enough away. All one needed to do was keep your distance with a scoped weapon and you could scoop up gear from multiple enemies... until today that is. Bungie has finally corrected the exploit with its latest hotfix while offering a tongue-in-cheek explanation of what happened.

"The Hive of the holy "Treasure Cave" have realized the futility of their endless assault on Skywatch," the patch notes read, "and have retired to lick their wounds and plan their next attack." More specifically, the hotfix notes state that respawn timers for several monster caves were increased to 40 seconds. Previous respawn timers ranged from 6-10 seconds.

Being able to gather a critical mass of loot quickly certainly has its appeal, but endless cave farming wasn't the social experience Bungie had in mind. In a Destiny Dev Note, Bungie explained its decision in more detail, stating that the high efficiencies of cave farming are now being reduced.

"The social experience of a cave farming run is amazing," the note reads, "the herding to get a team of Guardians all behind the line and firing in the right direction, the rush to grab the loot, the scramble when the panic wave starts, the beckoning glow from inside the cave. The speed at which the community organized around this activity was inspiring and humbling to us.

"But shooting at a black hole for hours on end isn't our dream for how Destiny is played," Bungie continues. "Our hope is that social engagement in public spaces is only one part of the Destiny experience. Expect changes soon which decrease the efficiency of cave farming and correspondingly increase engram drops from completing activities."

The change is incredibly significant for Destiny players, but it really shouldn't be too surprising. Players will have to go back to grinding for the Legendary drops they crave, at least until another clever exploit is discovered.

Source: Bungie

Permalink

Aside from my griping about the legendary engrams, it looks like Bungie went in the total OPPOSITE direction with the Queens Wrath event. After completing a bounty, you get a mission. Completing the missions give you legendaries, EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

TorchofThanatos:
Can I swear? I really want to swear. How about: Curse you Bungie! I would really like to know how Bungie expected us to get loot. It really seems like that didn't play their own game.

Ronack:
This is the opposite of listening to criticism, Bungie.

Yeah, that is what I thought. So them listening to the community means removing the part of the game that the community found and we were actually working together. Every time I when to farm everyone was super nice and considerate. We would take turns uses the ammo boxes and no one would stay in the cave to mess everyone else up.

And when you are done being kitted out in legendaries after a few hours farming the loot cave, what are you going to do?

Go do raids for even better gear.

Jak2364:
"Shooting at a black hole for hours on end isn't our dream for how Destiny is played."
Oh, but shooting the same 6 bullet sponges you call bosses for hours is? Increasing difficulty by raising some numbers and mandating playing with others instead of implementing new mechanics is your dream?
I'm done with that game. If it ever gets a good story (and NOT through the paid expansions) then I might go back but till then screw them.

Pretty well states my feelings on this game. Especially the part about story, which is the primary reason I play a game. Ironically it was Bungie that stated: "players NEED a good story to care about why they are still playing some 'stupid game' at 3 in the morning."

Irridium:
Before everyone flips their shit they should probably go and read Bungie's post here.

In it they say they're going to increase loot drops from strikes and other things, as well as making strikes less grindy. Also a few other good things in there.

Game's still a steaming pile of mediocrity, but this isn't just them going "loot cave's gone go fuck yourselves".

I agree with you as well. Unfortunately, the whole game pretty well says "go sod yourselves" to me, regardless of the exploits being shored up. It's sad really, as I WANT to like this game. As it stands, I am glad I rented this title.

Oddly enough, the BETA was enough for me to realize I likely wouldn't enjoy this game, as I could barely be bothered to play past the first hour or two in the demo. Same with the Elder Scrolls Online. In both cases, I was hoping the demo was merely stripped of what would make the finished product compelling.

Sadly, the demos were instead prophetic as to how dishearteningly underwhelming these title have been. I hope both products can right the ship, as that makes the 3rd major title that's gone bust for me this gen (1st one being Watch_Dogs). Ah well...back to modding the crap out of Skyrim...

Makabriel:

TorchofThanatos:
Can I swear? I really want to swear. How about: Curse you Bungie! I would really like to know how Bungie expected us to get loot. It really seems like that didn't play their own game.

Ronack:
This is the opposite of listening to criticism, Bungie.

Yeah, that is what I thought. So them listening to the community means removing the part of the game that the community found and we were actually working together. Every time I when to farm everyone was super nice and considerate. We would take turns uses the ammo boxes and no one would stay in the cave to mess everyone else up.

And when you are done being kitted out in legendaries after a few hours farming the loot cave, what are you going to do?

Kitted out in legendaries? Grinding does give you that much good stuff. The most you can hope for is a bunch of blues and greens that can be turned into weapon parts or the class specific armour upgrade items. Really the loot cave was great for getting the crafting items not farming legendaries. Even if you got a legendary chances were that it would be turned into a blue or green.

honestly I'm more pissed off about this:

Queen's Wrath Event

Material rewards for dismantling Queen's Wrath gear will no longer provide ascendant materials, but missions will continue to drop Legendary items

Getting Ascendant Shards from duplicate Legendarys I got out of the grind-fest that is queen's daily missions was the only way I was upgrading gear more than once per week.

Edit:

synobal:
I don't think Bungie have ever made a game with loot mechanics and it shows.

Destiny is the first Bungie game with loot mechanics, and while I understand giving them the befit of the doubt, they also decided to lock story and lore in the Grimoire on a website not accessible in game. Destiny is built on a massive pile of questionable design decisions.

How dare players have fun in their games, no you MUST play how Bungie wants or they'll patch what your doing out! Seriously Bungie I don't even play your boring game and I find that stupid, especially considering what others are saying.

RicoADF:
How dare players have fun in their games, no you MUST play how Bungie wants or they'll patch what your doing out! Seriously Bungie I don't even play your boring game and I find that stupid, especially considering what others are saying.

Fun? Shooting at the same spot for hours is FUN? Boy I must really be playing my games wrong then. Instead of working quests and bounties, playing PvP, ya know, variety, I should instead be beating my head against a wall until the knocking becomes a soft, wet squishy noise. This sounds like Bungie's attempting to increase loot rewards across the board, thus eliminating the need of a loot cave. This sounds like a much-needed improvement to me, as I haven't enjoyed camping loot in games since sitting for hours in old sebilis waiting on a fungal tunic, which was.....wow, 14 years ago.

The whole problem with Destiny is that Bungie wants people to respect the reward loop they have in the game, but it's just not good enough.

Play a Crucible match, get top marks, find out you get nothing and the guy who caused the losing team to lose just got a Rare or Legendary.

Go to the Cryptarch when you finally get a legendary engram, find yourself with a low-level blue (one you can't even swap out with your equipped ones because they're based on level 16, rather than 20.)

Get a legendary item from an engram from the Cryptarch only to find out that it's for another class entirely.

Finish a strike to get.. well.. plasteel plating?
----

In the end, almost every weapon or piece of armor I'm getting, I'm breaking up for materials because there's simply nothing better to do with them, and that is where the problem lies. The limited inventory space makes it even easier to say "shard it" because you can't keep something you like the look of since you don't have the space.

For the Queen's Wrath crap, I got the same helmet THREE TIMES in a row. I've got an exotic helmet so I didn't even really have a reason to use the first one. At least the silver lining (for all that work which included headshots with a handcannon in PvP..) was to get ascendent material for other items. Only wait.. now you can't. No materials, they might give you what? Glimmer?

If you want me to respect your reward loop, you MUST respect my time, and Destiny doesn't do that at all.

I mean I guess I should go back to just doing strikes with my frie... oh, I've disconnected for the billionth time... GG Bungie.

"Isn't our dream for how Destiny is played."
Thanks for telling me how to have fun, Bungie.
It's almost as if they want you to do mind numbing, time consuming grinding. I guess they just want to extend the gameplay time between "expansion packs."[1]

[1] Which doesn't make it right and, I think, is the wrong way to go if they're sticking to that.

The loot cave wasn't the problem Bungie, it was the way you idiots designed the game! I'm not going to spend days doing the same strike to get no gear when I can spend 12 hours at the loot cave and get all the gear I need. Until you fix the engram system I'm not gonna waste my time on your "finished" game. It's completely unacceptable that from a legendary engram we can get uncommons and rares, what were you guys thinking? You can even get gear your toon can't even WEAR!!!!!!!!!! I'm so glad I just borrowed the game from my roommate. And to think Bungie was supposed to be the chosen one, that could do no harm.

Destiny feels worse than Diablo 3's loot 1.0 and it doesn't even have an AH. Bungie needs to look at what Blizzard did. To their credit they made Diablo 3 orders of magnitude better with the new loot system.

"But shooting at a black hole for hours on end isn't our dream for how Destiny is played," - Bungie

I'm sorry, was I shooting at the story? Or perhaps just the same damn areas over and over and over... How bout you fix the server stability before you go tweaking stuff that ISN'T breaking your game?

At this point you really need to ask yourself "are players truly the ones being entitled whiny little bitches?" as developers sit and pout about how players aren't playing with their toys "the right way".
Weren't games supposed to be fun at some point or another?

Got my first purple engram last night and it decoded into a purple item - whether its down to their tweaking or chance I do not know, but Im happy.

In general though, I've hit level 23 now but theres just so much repetition now. The Queens stuff can sod off too, I was expecting so much more from it. Looking forward to Shadows of Mordor now!

I'm not seeing the problem, leveling your gear is not bad at all if you do bounties. And as far as making it harder to farm, the queen bounty missions give a guaranteed legendary if you have the bounty item so big woop.

I can just imagine how the discussion went down at Bungie HQ

Dev : So apparently a lot of our players are simply shooting into a cave to farm the engrams to get the loot, strikes aren't being run as much because its just not worth it.

Producer : Why are they doing this, why aren't they doing the high level content or the strikes we made for them?

Dev : Well because of the loot system, it doesn't matter what level the enemies are its a random chance of a drop

Producer : But if you complete strikes you get a guaranteed item!

Dev : Yeah true but the reward is not worth the time, farming is quicker due to the way the loot system works. We need to overhaul the loot system, or at least make strikes more time efficient. Maybe lower the health of hte bosses a bit, make them drop a guarentted engram? Talking of engrams we also need to talk about the Cryptarch randomness.

Producer : Yes the randomness of the Cryptarch was a great idea I agree, but I have a better idea, change the spawn time so they can't farm the cave

Dev : Thats not what i mea.... doesn't matter, but anyway that only solves the symptom , not the problem, we need to sort out the loot system from the ground up.

Producer : But if they have no cave to farm from they will have to run the strikes again, it solves the problem!

Dev : Well that still takes a lot more time than farming in patrol mode

Producer : Well look at that next, make the drop rates lower or something. We want them to run the strikes as that was my magical vision. Now send in the story department, the ending of this story for the dlc is too concrete and complete. I don't want it to end properly we need ambiguity, easier to sell the future stories if we never finished the previous ones.

I'm so glad I never got this game...an FPS with all the worst parts of an MMO...loot grinding especially.

This is so different from the experience Bungie promised

Remus:
Fun? Shooting at the same spot for hours is FUN?

Shooting at the same spot is to /enable/ fun. I don't play Destiny, but I do play Borderlands 2, and it suffers from a similar problem. Duping an item is not fun, but it's less /unfun/ than grinding the same boss a hundred times before you're allowed to try out the unique gun you're interested in.

Louzerman102:
honestly I'm more pissed off about this:

Queen's Wrath Event

Material rewards for dismantling Queen's Wrath gear will no longer provide ascendant materials, but missions will continue to drop Legendary items

Getting Ascendant Shards from duplicate Legendarys I got out of the grind-fest that is queen's daily missions was the only way I was upgrading gear more than once per week.

Edit:

synobal:
I don't think Bungie have ever made a game with loot mechanics and it shows.

Destiny is the first Bungie game with loot mechanics, and while I understand giving them the befit of the doubt, they also decided to lock story and lore in the Grimoire on a website not accessible in game. Destiny is built on a massive pile of questionable design decisions.

Yep, my clanmates and I went ballistic over this yesterday. Now, all the extra damn legendaries you are going to have in your stock from doing Queens Wrath missions can be dismantled, and instead of at least giving you a few ascendant shards, you get the basic material like you dismantled an uncommon, and +28 Glimmer. Wow. They carpet bombed the problem, instead of using fine tuned surgery. What Bungie SHOULD have done was reduced the count to 1 Ascendant Shard for each piece you dismantle, plus the reg. material, and give you a little more Glimmer than usual. But noooooo... they just nerfed the hell out of them outright. /facepalm

Bungie has basically created an MMO, and they dont want you to farm or grind. Its baffling.

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