Alien's Sigourney Weaver Hopes to See More Women in Games

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Alien's Sigourney Weaver Hopes to See More Women in Games

Alien: Isolation Pre-Order

Sigourney Weaver calls out the lack of mothers in media and explains why she agreed to play a role in Alien: Isolation.

Sigourney Weaver has played a variety of roles in her acting career, and she looks back on Ellen Ripley as one of her more iconic characters. In an interview with The Mary Sue, Weaver says she believes video games are expanding as she sees Alien: Isolation making use of emotion.

Weaver reprises her role as Ellen Ripley in Alien: Isolation from the Alien movies, where she played Ripley in the four films starting in 1979. Ellen Ripley is playable only in the Nostromo edition of Alien: Isolation, which was available for free as a preorder bonus. Weaver has been approached to get involved in other games, which are sometimes related to Aliens, and she decided to do Isolation because it used details from the movie's script while going in a new direction by featuring Ellen Ripley's daughter, Amanda Ripley. Ripley never reunited with her daughter in the movies.

Weaver found Alien: Isolation interesting because it has an original story that's also faithful to the movies while going in "an emotional direction."

"I think video games themselves are expanding to please a lot of different appetites - a lot of different kinds of gamers," Weaver said. "Maybe gamers who are more interested in story than, kind of, target practice. So I'm kind of delighted that this happened now, because I think that gaming is so sophisticated, that it can give you such an immersive experience, this is the perfect time for this game created from something that was made 35 years ago."

Weaver noted to TIME that both her husband and daughter play games like Grand Theft Auto and Crazy Taxi, and she compared the feeling of immersion in games to how she feels acting as a character.

Weaver, who said she easily slipped back into the role of Ripley, is both stunned and isolated by her iconic role. Heroines are rarely mothers in movies or video games. She's proud to play different kinds of female characters, and she calls women "the glue that holds the world together."

"And it is women who are mothers, particularly - who are on the front lines of many things in life - they hold the family together, they change things in their communities, they run businesses."

Weaver was excited to enter video games for her role and hopes that games will continue to grow and feature complex characters of different genders. "I simply have seen a lot of women in strong roles in the movies, and I think if more games are made with a bigger spectrum that characters will get more complex, and I think that certainly will mean there will be more women characters," she said. "Men and women.

"There's so many great examples in the world of powerful, interesting personalities that I hope it's more - perhaps if more women choose to enter this field of creating games, that will happen."

Alien: Isolation launched today, October 7, on PS4, PS3, Xbox One, Xbox 360, and PC.

Source: The Mary Sue

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People can come in here spewing the names of female characters, but that still won't negate the fact that they're vastly unrepresented as main characters. Just look at what happened with Remember Me, where they had to fight tooth and nail to have a leading lady instead of another guy. And when we do get a great game with a leading lady, like Lara Croft, we see these insane controversies that don't make a lick of sense. Like the "rape scene" in the latest Tomb Raider title. Just sticking with a white guy with a stubble would be the road less dramatic, so who can blame them of sticking with it? I hope that Weaver's comments at least make something of a splash.

Mothers and fathers are the most important people in the world, so it's odd that they get so little representation in popular film and games. As the gaming demographic continues to grow (and age), we are getting more and more gamer parents. Remember how great it felt to step into the shoes of Lee and Joel? Let's get that for mothers too. And no, fridging their family doesn't really count for this.

Weaver hit the nail on the head here.

Eh, I think maybe Weaver just isn't familiar with games a medium. People love great story telling in games and while you might see commercials for the latest shooter only for every call of bullet modern war simulator we have a dozen story driven games with fantastic characters. The only difference between the two really is one has a marketing budget the other doesn't most the time.

I wonder if she knows that her performance in the game is hidden behind the pre-order crap wall...

synobal:
Eh, I think maybe Weaver just isn't familiar with games a medium. People love great story telling in games and while you might see commercials for the latest shooter only for every call of bullet modern war simulator we have a dozen story driven games with fantastic characters. The only difference between the two really is one has a marketing budget the other doesn't most the time.

Some of us do love great story telling in games, but the medium as a whole is not sophisticated enough to please those of us that crave really good narratives on a consistent basis. It is just not about a lack of marketing funds, there is an actual problem with getting good narratives into games. Whatever Alien: Isolation has a good story is something I will have to get back to you on, as I am only about 3 hours into the game. But for every Spec Ops: The Line or Deus Ex: Human Revolution there are dozens, if not hundreds, of games that seem to use narrative only as an excuse to get the player into the action.

Gethsemani:

synobal:
Eh, I think maybe Weaver just isn't familiar with games a medium. People love great story telling in games and while you might see commercials for the latest shooter only for every call of bullet modern war simulator we have a dozen story driven games with fantastic characters. The only difference between the two really is one has a marketing budget the other doesn't most the time.

Some of us do love great story telling in games, but the medium as a whole is not sophisticated enough to please those of us that crave really good narratives on a consistent basis. It is just not about a lack of marketing funds, there is an actual problem with getting good narratives into games. Whatever Alien: Isolation has a good story is something I will have to get back to you on, as I am only about 3 hours into the game. But for every Spec Ops: The Line or Deus Ex: Human Revolution there are dozens, if not hundreds, of games that seem to use narrative only as an excuse to get the player into the action.

Sure but that is true of any medium, I can tell you for every great work of fiction there is a thousand or million airport novels, whats your point? Its never been about percentages of good works its about if you have them or not. We have plenty of games with great story telling, more and more all the time now that Kickstarter reminded the industry that sometimes games as a story telling device sell well. Its just games take money and publishers are more likely to go for the less risky option when it comes to making a game. Its the same reason you get so many action flicks in hollywood or cheesy romance novels in fiction.

Gethsemani:

synobal:
Eh, I think maybe Weaver just isn't familiar with games a medium. People love great story telling in games and while you might see commercials for the latest shooter only for every call of bullet modern war simulator we have a dozen story driven games with fantastic characters. The only difference between the two really is one has a marketing budget the other doesn't most the time.

Some of us do love great story telling in games, but the medium as a whole is not sophisticated enough to please those of us that crave really good narratives on a consistent basis. It is just not about a lack of marketing funds, there is an actual problem with getting good narratives into games. Whatever Alien: Isolation has a good story is something I will have to get back to you on, as I am only about 3 hours into the game. But for every Spec Ops: The Line or Deus Ex: Human Revolution there are dozens, if not hundreds, of games that seem to use narrative only as an excuse to get the player into the action.

Ehm. What? Medium not sophisticated enough? I beg to differ on a large level. Shallow experiences abound in all media. For every rich experience there is a Call of Duty X, a Transformers 3 (the movie) a Twilight (the book). Games are as good as any media to deliver good narratives. Probably even better than most, because they alone can deliver agency to the consumer.

There are plenty of good stories in games. Planescape: Torment, Baldurs Gate 2, Witcher 1 (imo, mostly because of the fantastic ending), Psychonauts, the Legacy of Kain series and there are probably plenty more.

The medium is not the problem, the audience is. The majority of people are too stupid to recognize a good story when it being shoved down their throats. Also, good stories tend to take a while to get rolling, and in todays flashy and fast consumer market...it just doesnt sell as well.

I've always respected Weaver a lot, she was an idol to me growing up (from the Aliens movies no less). And I think that as more and more developers are given the chance to honestly write good narratives, we will see better written female and male characters. But as it is now, not always but often with AAA writing is given a back seat to either graphics or budget or marketing or getting it out as quickly as possible, and so we get a sub par story, and one dimensional characters that while we can enjoy on a shallow level (like she said, target practice), we can't really dive into on a deeper level.

Yet, as I said, I think we may be slowly moving away from that and giving writers more of a chance to write better story, better dialogue, better characters, and when we have that, getting away from the standard tropes we've been using for games (good guy with gun goes in to beat bad guy with gun).

Given characters as relatable as Ripley, there's certainly no reason that shouldn't happen.

Yeah... we can blame AAA budgets to that. Since games are more expensive to produce and market than even most movies, and game publishers can take huge hits for backing the wrong horse; they are not prone to taking risks, so the end result in most cases are the blandest, most generic stories and characters than any medium.

Luckily for us, in the last decade the indie scene exploded, and that is where the truly interesting stuff happens. Unfortunately, it is so small (profit-wise), that publishers and the public don't pay too much attention, so its not a surprise that Ms Weaver never heard about it...

As if ripley having a daughter in the movies ever played any role whatsoever kept for a small mention in ALIENS at the beginning.

Heres the problem i see: Youre damned if you do, youre damned if you dont.

If you do include mothers in gaming the SJWs will scream that you try to reinforce traditional gender roles

If you dont the SJWs will scream that youre giving women not enough agency and time in the spotlight.

Either way you choose you will have them yelling soddom and gomorra.

Ronack:
People can come in here spewing the names of female characters, but that still won't negate the fact that they're vastly unrepresented as main characters. Just look at what happened with Remember Me, where they had to fight tooth and nail to have a leading lady instead of another guy. And when we do get a great game with a leading lady, like Lara Croft, we see these insane controversies that don't make a lick of sense. Like the "rape scene" in the latest Tomb Raider title. Just sticking with a white guy with a stubble would be the road less dramatic, so who can blame them of sticking with it? I hope that Weaver's comments at least make something of a splash.

Well yeah if you rule out any game where you are allowed to choose your gender, or games where the gender of is ambiguous... Yeah women are under represented...

Example.. Remember Starcraft... the gender of the player character is never given explicitly. At best the rank of the player is given (Commander), THusly you have a case where you're only counting explicitly given gender... whioch is like counting only Catholics as Christians. They are the largest singly denomination but still small in comparison to the grand total.

And why is it every female in games has to be tackling the idea of motherhood. What is that the only thing about women? I think it's why Samus and Alys stand out for me as female protagonists they were like F88k motherhood hands me my sword/blaster.

You do raise a point though. When they put a female character in a lead they have to worry about doing it right, because heaven help if you make her in the slightest bit sexually appealing (sorc from dragon crown) because then you're obviously catering to male players and heaven forbid you make a game with e female character that guys might also like to play.

But, yeah, it's easier and safer if the lead is astraight white male... no one cares of you do a crappy portrayal of those so ironically the creator has far more creative freedom. Straight White Male is actually the least creatively restrictive archetype to work with...

nevarran:
I wonder if she knows that her performance in the game is hidden behind the pre-order crap wall...

Anyone who would try to keep that from her would have to have serious cajones. I think she knows, and her opinions on that are currently not known.

OT: I agree, there should be alot more roles that can live up to Weaver's performance in media. She's a woman who can appear anywhere and people go "Oooh, Sigourney Weaver.". (Actually, the refrain for Paul and The Cabin in the Woods is "Oh shit! Sigourney Weaver's the end-boss!".) We need more people to invoke this kind of feeling, because there will come a time when she is no longer here to invoke that herself.

Ronack:
People can come in here spewing the names of female characters, but that still won't negate the fact that they're vastly unrepresented as main characters.

What's your basis for stating that "fact"?
What markets are you reffering to?
Which demographics and age groups?
Which genres of gameplay?

People can, and have, "spewed" a load of names because the myth that there needs to be gender quotas in games is a load of bullshit.
There's no "need" for characters that have a specific gender, skin color, physical/mental disability, weight, hair color, sexuality or political stance.

You have good, bland or bad characters and that's it. There are no "correct" characters and stating that there is a need for these is borderline propaganda.

This is not a fight or battle for representation. If there really needs to be a fight for anything, it's better characters overall.
Some may want or pretend to need representation in games, but is that because they want it to feel better about themselves (and by extension is it anyone elses responsibility, but their own?) or is it some douche maneuver to make a cry for attention?

I want more good characters that are women as well, but I sure as fuck don't want them to fulfill some made up quota that'll inevitably end up in token characters.

Karadalis:
As if ripley having a daughter in the movies ever played any role whatsoever kept for a small mention in ALIENS at the beginning.

Heres the problem i see: Youre damned if you do, youre damned if you dont.

If you do include mothers in gaming the SJWs will scream that you try to reinforce traditional gender roles

If you dont the SJWs will scream that youre giving women not enough agency and time in the spotlight.

Either way you choose you will have them yelling soddom and gomorra.

Actually if you think about it.. it's a pretty major thing in Aliens.... see.. that's why she formed such an attachment to Newt. Newt was about the age of Ripley's own daughter before she set into space. She didn't comback until like 40 years later...

But seriously, Sigourney... uhm... this has nothing to do with maybe the idea that this is prolly the closest thing to an acting gig you've had in a while right and thatr you're sorta contractually obligated to say nice things about this right? Because that's totally a thing in the industry. Ask any actor about a movie their set to appear in and they will say only nice things. Heck Leguizamo and Hoskins said nice things about SMB the Movie before it came out and they both admitted afterwards the movie was so bad they needed to get drunk just to go to work.

So yeah.. Grain of salt here...I wouldn't normally mention something like that but gamersgate has taught me that many on the internet don't seem to be capable of looking beyond the surface presentation of things or question the reasoning.

To simplify. Miss Sigourney has likely been paid to say stuff like this.

Not The Bees:
I've always respected Weaver a lot, she was an idol to me growing up (from the Aliens movies no less). And I think that as more and more developers are given the chance to honestly write good narratives, we will see better written female and male characters. But as it is now, not always but often with AAA writing is given a back seat to either graphics or budget or marketing or getting it out as quickly as possible, and so we get a sub par story, and one dimensional characters that while we can enjoy on a shallow level (like she said, target practice), we can't really dive into on a deeper level.

Yet, as I said, I think we may be slowly moving away from that and giving writers more of a chance to write better story, better dialogue, better characters, and when we have that, getting away from the standard tropes we've been using for games (good guy with gun goes in to beat bad guy with gun).

I'm not particularly sure we're getting better story. And with the demands for 4 thousand ps and 9 million fps per second, I somehow doubt we'll see more progress for a while.

But you know? Stupid action games are fun. I enjoy them. It'd just be nice if you could see more female leads. We don't need better writing for that. Better writing would be better, but I don't think the issues are codependent.

Zachary Amaranth:

Not The Bees:
I've always respected Weaver a lot, she was an idol to me growing up (from the Aliens movies no less). And I think that as more and more developers are given the chance to honestly write good narratives, we will see better written female and male characters. But as it is now, not always but often with AAA writing is given a back seat to either graphics or budget or marketing or getting it out as quickly as possible, and so we get a sub par story, and one dimensional characters that while we can enjoy on a shallow level (like she said, target practice), we can't really dive into on a deeper level.

Yet, as I said, I think we may be slowly moving away from that and giving writers more of a chance to write better story, better dialogue, better characters, and when we have that, getting away from the standard tropes we've been using for games (good guy with gun goes in to beat bad guy with gun).

I'm not particularly sure we're getting better story. And with the demands for 4 thousand ps and 9 million fps per second, I somehow doubt we'll see more progress for a while.

But you know? Stupid action games are fun. I enjoy them. It'd just be nice if you could see more female leads. We don't need better writing for that. Better writing would be better, but I don't think the issues are codependent.

Well, let me rephrase a bit, we may not be getting better writing out of the AAA sphere, but with smaller companies, AA games and independent companies popping up, we're getting better stories with more interesting characters.

Don't get me wrong, I like stupid action games too. But at the same time, I really like playing a game I can get behind the character as well. It's why I love D&D so much, it's why I really got into Skyrim (because I started RPGing while I was playing, regardless of what the plot was), it's why I loved Mass Effect. I was able to sink my teeth into a story and into the characters to that what happened to them in between the stupid actiony fun, I cared about.

I cried when my husband got killed in Skyrim. I mean, I mourned him. Why? I don't know, because I really got into it. Granted, that was more me than Bethesda, but that's what better story can do to a game. It can really let a player have a lot of fun fucking shit up, but then turn around and go "WHAT?! NO! I AM GOING TO KILL THAT MOTHER FUCKER!"

I want to feel like John McClane in Die Hard (the good one).

If all that makes sense. I just want a story that I look back on and go... "You know what? I want to play that again."

Smilomaniac:

Ronack:
People can come in here spewing the names of female characters, but that still won't negate the fact that they're vastly unrepresented as main characters.

What's your basis for stating that "fact"?
What markets are you reffering to?
Which demographics and age groups?
Which genres of gameplay?

People can, and have, "spewed" a load of names because the myth that there needs to be gender quotas in games is a load of bullshit.
There's no "need" for characters that have a specific gender, skin color, physical/mental disability, weight, hair color, sexuality or political stance.

You have good, bland or bad characters and that's it. There are no "correct" characters and stating that there is a need for these is borderline propaganda.

This is not a fight or battle for representation. If there really needs to be a fight for anything, it's better characters overall.
Some may want or pretend to need representation in games, but is that because they want it to feel better about themselves (and by extension is it anyone elses responsibility, but their own?) or is it some douche maneuver to make a cry for attention?

I want more good characters that are women as well, but I sure as fuck don't want them to fulfill some made up quota that'll inevitably end up in token characters.

You're missing the point completely. It's not about a quota to be filled. Or about "good characters, bad characters". It's about a bad way of thinking that's making it so that making the main character of Remember Me a woman ends up being a fight. It's about a bad way of thinking that makes the generic main character only a "stubble bearded, middle-aged white man" and never a "middle-aged white woman". The reason being that female-led games supposedly don't sell or something. Or that male gamers (which they believe to be the dominant demographic) don't want to play as a woman.

And about representation: It matters. It matters a lot. Couldn't exactly find it, but there's a post on Tumblr where the societal roles of men and women were reversed. And the last image was GIF of a young boy looking at a plaque with pictures of all the American presidents and they were all women. Before that we had a GIF where a couple wanted to watch The Avengers, but all of them were female except for a token man. And do you remember that one kid from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.? All he asked was this: "Why are none of them black?" when looking at a toy line of The Avengers. You know what happened? Mike Peterson wanted to be that black hero for his son, so that he could have someone to look up to. To show that black people could be heroes too.

Equal representation shouldn't be a quota. It should be the standard and accepted way of thinking. Though, it shouldn't be like "oh, we've got two more white male characters! Let's double up on white female characters!" No, not like that. Obviously.

Well she did kick off a trend of aspirational female leads. (Even though Ridley Scott did technically. Seriously the guy has some of the strongest female characters in movie history in his library) I would like to see woman fairly represented and fair play to Weaver (and the gang, I am so happy to hear Yaphet Kotto again) for doing Alien Isolation. (for money) It felt awesome playing as her in crew expendable. Ripley has always been a great character because her toughness comes from her pragmatism and emotional need. She always has the plan figured out and only does brave shit either because it's the only thing to do or she needs to rescue her cat or adopted daughter. She is emotional in a very easy to relate to way. A lot of people who rip her off just write their characters as macho men with breasts. Ripley is not just a well written/ portrayed female character. She is a good character full stop.

Ronack:

You're missing the point completely. It's not about a quota to be filled. Or about "good characters, bad characters". It's about a bad way of thinking that's making it so that making the main character of Remember Me a woman ends up being a fight. It's about a bad way of thinking that makes the generic main character only a "stubble bearded, middle-aged white man" and never a "middle-aged white woman". The reason being that female-led games supposedly don't sell or something. Or that male gamers (which they believe to be the dominant demographic) don't want to play as a woman.

Sorry to interfere, but... are we talking only about games for boys here?
I've had that feeling for a long time that it only counts if there is a "game for boys" with a female protagonist.
Like only if it is a heavy marketed AAA action title aimed at consoles and costing $60 a woman as a protagonist counts.
And if it is a point and click, or a hidden object game or one of those date sims with lots of boys on mobiles - they don't really count.
Where is the divide? Which games do we count which we don't and why?
This question kind of ties it to a "Not A Game" discussion.

On another note, I usually play female characters for whatever reason. I don't have a problem with finding games to play. What am I doing wrong?

slo:

Ronack:

You're missing the point completely. It's not about a quota to be filled. Or about "good characters, bad characters". It's about a bad way of thinking that's making it so that making the main character of Remember Me a woman ends up being a fight. It's about a bad way of thinking that makes the generic main character only a "stubble bearded, middle-aged white man" and never a "middle-aged white woman". The reason being that female-led games supposedly don't sell or something. Or that male gamers (which they believe to be the dominant demographic) don't want to play as a woman.

Sorry to interfere, but... are we talking only about games for boys here?
I've had that feeling for a long time that it only counts if there is a "game for boys" with a female protagonist.
Like only if it is a heavy marketed AAA action title aimed at consoles and costing $60 a woman as a protagonist counts.
And if it is a point and click, or a hidden object game or one of those date sims with lots of boys on mobiles - they don't really count.
Where is the divide? Which games do we count which we don't and why?
This question kind of ties it to a "Not A Game" discussion.

On another note, I usually play female characters for whatever reason. I don't have a problem with finding games to play. What am I doing wrong?

There's no "games for boys" and "games for girls" if you ask me. Everyone is free to play whatever the hell they want. I think the discussion here is more about the AAA gaming market. You do bring up a good point that when it comes to Hidden Object games for example, things are radically different. My mother's got a box full of those games and a LOT of them have female protagonists.

Ronack:

There's no "games for boys" and "games for girls" if you ask me. Everyone is free to play whatever the hell they want. I think the discussion here is more about the AAA gaming market. You do bring up a good point that when it comes to Hidden Object games for example, things are radically different. My mother's got a box full of those games and a LOT of them have female protagonists.

Well, the AAAs are a little rusty when it comes to variety. That clears it up for me.
I mostly play indie and retro titles and with variety they provide it is not that evident where the problem lies.

Hey, since Sega just killed and immediately brought the interactive part of the Alien franchise back from the grave, with great success. How about they, with Weaver's voice and the Ripley character model someone spent a lot of time on but won't be seen by many Isolation players, help fix the post-Aliens story. I'd preorder(and with my hatred of preorders, beckon the Four Horsemen) a game were you play as Ripley right after the events of Aliens, protecting Newt and the injured Hicks while trying to get the out of whatever xenomorphic mess the writers can come up with. I want the true Alien 3, and here's a chance to make it.

Does she know that her character influenced Samus Aran, the one of the first female leads in games? If so, please don't let anyone tell her about Aran's latest story, that one kinda went in the opposite direction for representing women in games.

BigTuk:

Karadalis:
As if ripley having a daughter in the movies ever played any role whatsoever kept for a small mention in ALIENS at the beginning.

Actually if you think about it.. it's a pretty major thing in Aliens.... see.. that's why she formed such an attachment to Newt. Newt was about the age of Ripley's own daughter before she set into space. She didn't comback until like 40 years later...

Agreed. Family is a huge part of Ripley's story in Aliens, and a huge part of why Alien3 is much worse than it might otherwise have been.

Not The Bees:

If all that makes sense. I just want a story that I look back on and go... "You know what? I want to play that again."

It makes sense, but you added that in Skyrim, and you added it in the cardboard worlds of Mass Effect. It almost seems like good writing is superfluous to what you're talking about. And actually, that's one of the benefits of Skyrim. The game's so sandboxy the main quest is almost completely superfluous. But that in itself isn't a function of good writing, it's a function of bland, vague writing and a world that invites you to play with its toys.

Zachary Amaranth:

Not The Bees:

If all that makes sense. I just want a story that I look back on and go... "You know what? I want to play that again."

It makes sense, but you added that in Skyrim, and you added it in the cardboard worlds of Mass Effect. It almost seems like good writing is superfluous to what you're talking about. And actually, that's one of the benefits of Skyrim. The game's so sandboxy the main quest is almost completely superfluous. But that in itself isn't a function of good writing, it's a function of bland, vague writing and a world that invites you to play with its toys.

Well my point was, I'd like better writing so I don't HAVE to do that all the time.

Ronack:
And when we do get a great game with a leading lady, like Lara Croft, we see these insane controversies that don't make a lick of sense. Like the "rape scene" in the latest Tomb Raider title.

The best way to think about why that controversy makes sense is to ask yourself whether Nathan Drake would ever be threatened with rape.

Diana Kingston-Gabai:

Ronack:
And when we do get a great game with a leading lady, like Lara Croft, we see these insane controversies that don't make a lick of sense. Like the "rape scene" in the latest Tomb Raider title.

The best way to think about why that controversy makes sense is to ask yourself whether Nathan Drake would ever be threatened with rape.

Even Batman got raped by Talia Al'Ghul, so ... Sure, I can see it happening.

Zachary Amaranth:
And with the demands for 4 thousand ps and 9 million fps per second, I somehow doubt we'll see more progress for a while.

You do know that people who write game story and gameplay are different than those who code the graphics and optimization, right? While it is true that often gameplay is made and then writers have to write story around it, this is not true for graphics or optimization. for example same machine will run Metro games over twice as well than Watch Dogs simply based on Metro being better optimized. here you just doubled the framerate or resolution by actually optimizing your game. and you didnt take anything from "Story" of the game either. the two do not compete.

also not sure what is "4 thousand ps". if you meant 4 thousand px as in pixels then 4megapixels is actually a small resolution, you probably refer to 4k, or as properly should be called 2160p (4 times the pixels of 1080p). Do note that most people are looking at 1080p or 1440p and not 2160p yet. The framerate of a minimum of 60 is demanded though. the higher framerate monitors/tvs are also getting more popular but people are mostly saying that 30 fps lock is unacceptable, whitch we still see on console games sadly. Im sure most would be satisfied with [email protected] native.

Ronack:

You're missing the point completely. It's not about a quota to be filled. Or about "good characters, bad characters". It's about a bad way of thinking that's making it so that making the main character of Remember Me a woman ends up being a fight. It's about a bad way of thinking that makes the generic main character only a "stubble bearded, middle-aged white man" and never a "middle-aged white woman". The reason being that female-led games supposedly don't sell or something. Or that male gamers (which they believe to be the dominant demographic) don't want to play as a woman.

And about representation: It matters. It matters a lot. Couldn't exactly find it, but there's a post on Tumblr where the societal roles of men and women were reversed. And the last image was GIF of a young boy looking at a plaque with pictures of all the American presidents and they were all women. Before that we had a GIF where a couple wanted to watch The Avengers, but all of them were female except for a token man. And do you remember that one kid from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.? All he asked was this: "Why are none of them black?" when looking at a toy line of The Avengers. You know what happened? Mike Peterson wanted to be that black hero for his son, so that he could have someone to look up to. To show that black people could be heroes too.

Equal representation shouldn't be a quota. It should be the standard and accepted way of thinking. Though, it shouldn't be like "oh, we've got two more white male characters! Let's double up on white female characters!" No, not like that. Obviously.

Why do people want female protagonists? most common answer i hear is so they could relate, meaning they are females themselves and want to relate to character they are playing (well there could also be males identifying as females but i doubt its a significant portion).

As you claimed, evidently female led games do not sell well. why they do not sell well is debatable (in my opinion Remmeber Me was just a bad game for example). but it is important to remmeber demographics of your audience. while ESA tout that half gamers are female, a closer studies seem to reveal that vast majority (think over 80%) of genres such as FPS, RTS, fighters, and other so called "Hardcore" genres gamers are male (interestingly, there seems to be around equal amounts of females and males among RPG players). which means you are marketing to dominantly male audience. if the genre matter for a sake of ability to relate, you have to choose between 80% of your audience able to relate and 20% of your audience able to relate. whitch one do you think will be more profitable?

If there is a choice in the game, i always choose male. I am a male and thus i choose to play as one. i cant speak for others, but given a choice i prefer not to play as a woman.

Representation is important, but it is important not solely for representation sake. its supposed to be reflective of reality, not be some creation to fill a quota. Representation should not be "Equal", it should be fair. which is to say it should fairly represent the demographic your showing, not have equal amounts of each.

It is also important to understand that a game is also a piece of creation. an author may have a vision of something and it is unfair to ask him to chance such vision. instead go and buy from an author that has vision more to your liking.

Diana Kingston-Gabai:

The best way to think about why that controversy makes sense is to ask yourself whether Nathan Drake would ever be threatened with rape.

Are you implying that males cannot be raped?

Fappy:
Mothers and fathers are the most important people in the world

[citation needed]?

Strazdas:

Why do people want female protagonists? most common answer i hear is so they could relate, meaning they are females themselves and want to relate to character they are playing (well there could also be males identifying as females but i doubt its a significant portion).

As you claimed, evidently female led games do not sell well. why they do not sell well is debatable (in my opinion Remmeber Me was just a bad game for example). but it is important to remmeber demographics of your audience. while ESA tout that half gamers are female, a closer studies seem to reveal that vast majority (think over 80%) of genres such as FPS, RTS, fighters, and other so called "Hardcore" genres gamers are male (interestingly, there seems to be around equal amounts of females and males among RPG players). which means you are marketing to dominantly male audience. if the genre matter for a sake of ability to relate, you have to choose between 80% of your audience able to relate and 20% of your audience able to relate. whitch one do you think will be more profitable?

If there is a choice in the game, i always choose male. I am a male and thus i choose to play as one. i cant speak for others, but given a choice i prefer not to play as a woman.

Representation is important, but it is important not solely for representation sake. its supposed to be reflective of reality, not be some creation to fill a quota. Representation should not be "Equal", it should be fair. which is to say it should fairly represent the demographic your showing, not have equal amounts of each.

It is also important to understand that a game is also a piece of creation. an author may have a vision of something and it is unfair to ask him to chance such vision. instead go and buy from an author that has vision more to your liking.

The Tomb Raider reboot was a fantastic game with a great reception and equally good sales figures. It's sold around 6.5 million units so far. If your game is good, it's going to sell. Regardless of what gender your main character is going to be. Beyond Good & Evil 2 is still highly anticipated by a lot of people, because the first game was so good. Mirror's Edge was received a short, but well made and fun to play game. It's sold about 2.5 million copies so far. The sequel is also highly anticipated.

Almost as many women play games as men do. The majority of men are fine with playing as a woman. Many men even prefer playing as a woman, just look at Jack from Achievement Hunter. The audience is there. The audience is asking. Devs aren't listening. And when they do put in an effort, like with Remember Me, they shoot themselves in the foot when it turns out the game isn't all that stellar. "Oh look, a female led game doesn't sell well. We told you so!"

It's not about filling a quota. The fact that CoD Ghosts finally had female soldiers was a big deal because they finally realized we weren't in the dark ages anymore. Women can be soldiers, OMG. Maybe they finally saw G.I. Jane or something, I don't know.

And when you as a creator don't even bother distinguishing your character beyond the "Rough, stubble-bearded middle-aged white man whose either witty or brooding" archetype, then the whole "artistic freedom" excuse doesn't work.

Diana Kingston-Gabai:

Ronack:
And when we do get a great game with a leading lady, like Lara Croft, we see these insane controversies that don't make a lick of sense. Like the "rape scene" in the latest Tomb Raider title.

The best way to think about why that controversy makes sense is to ask yourself whether Nathan Drake would ever be threatened with rape.

No, that's just stupid. One, you're suggesting that the creators of Tomb Raider should be constrained by the choices of tone and story made by an entirely different studio. It's like saying that Spec Ops: The Line isn't allowed to show the horrific aftereffects of a white phosphorous attack because a broshooter wouldn't. Two, Lara Croft /would/ be more likely to be targeted by a would-be rapist than Nathan Drake. That is not a justification for rape, it is an acknowledgement that evil people are not always equal-opportunity persecutors.

Ronack:

The Tomb Raider reboot was a fantastic game with a great reception and equally good sales figures. It's sold around 6.5 million units so far. If your game is good, it's going to sell. Regardless of what gender your main character is going to be. Beyond Good & Evil 2 is still highly anticipated by a lot of people, because the first game was so good. Mirror's Edge was received a short, but well made and fun to play game. It's sold about 2.5 million copies so far. The sequel is also highly anticipated.

Almost as many women play games as men do. The majority of men are fine with playing as a woman. Many men even prefer playing as a woman, just look at Jack from Achievement Hunter. The audience is there. The audience is asking. Devs aren't listening. And when they do put in an effort, like with Remember Me, they shoot themselves in the foot when it turns out the game isn't all that stellar. "Oh look, a female led game doesn't sell well. We told you so!"

It's not about filling a quota. The fact that CoD Ghosts finally had female soldiers was a big deal because they finally realized we weren't in the dark ages anymore. Women can be soldiers, OMG. Maybe they finally saw G.I. Jane or something, I don't know.

And when you as a creator don't even bother distinguishing your character beyond the "Rough, stubble-bearded middle-aged white man whose either witty or brooding" archetype, then the whole "artistic freedom" excuse doesn't work.

And how many Tomb Raiders are there? How many games did it took this franchise to achieve that? Why was out outdone by a much younger Uncharted franchise?

Mirrors edge has only gone profitable years after release and in fact at first it was deemed a failure untill ME2 eventually got picked up. It also benefited from being the only decent parkour game ever.

I cant comment on good and evil but what im getting at is your cherrypicking examples and even those examples fail to deliver.

Also id like your research on where majority of men are fine with playing as a woman wheras majority of woman arent fine with playing as man. ANd as i stated already, as many woman play games, but different sex tends to dominate different genres. And if you want to include everything from match3 phone games to GTA5 (fastest selling and one of the most expensive games of all time) then felames are not udnerrepresented. they are only underrepresented if we look at AAA industry, and AAA tend to stick to certain genres. Once again, cherry picking a single youtuber does not prove a rule.

Devs dont have to be listening. Devs should be making what they think is a great game and its for audience to buy or not buy it. since the game is bought, it turns out that the audience DOES like it and only some loudmouths were shouting about it.

You do realize that in most countries in the world Females are not allowed into active combat, and most of them into military at all? and even in those few countries where they are this is a VERY new developement? id say its representative to have all male squad in military operations when 99.99% of them actually are all male.

SO artistic freedom only exists if we make characters you like?

Ronack:

Smilomaniac:

Ronack:
People can come in here spewing the names of female characters, but that still won't negate the fact that they're vastly unrepresented as main characters.

What's your basis for stating that "fact"?
What markets are you reffering to?
Which demographics and age groups?
Which genres of gameplay?

People can, and have, "spewed" a load of names because the myth that there needs to be gender quotas in games is a load of bullshit.
There's no "need" for characters that have a specific gender, skin color, physical/mental disability, weight, hair color, sexuality or political stance.

You have good, bland or bad characters and that's it. There are no "correct" characters and stating that there is a need for these is borderline propaganda.

This is not a fight or battle for representation. If there really needs to be a fight for anything, it's better characters overall.
Some may want or pretend to need representation in games, but is that because they want it to feel better about themselves (and by extension is it anyone elses responsibility, but their own?) or is it some douche maneuver to make a cry for attention?

I want more good characters that are women as well, but I sure as fuck don't want them to fulfill some made up quota that'll inevitably end up in token characters.

You're missing the point completely. It's not about a quota to be filled. Or about "good characters, bad characters". It's about a bad way of thinking that's making it so that making the main character of Remember Me a woman ends up being a fight. It's about a bad way of thinking that makes the generic main character only a "stubble bearded, middle-aged white man" and never a "middle-aged white woman". The reason being that female-led games supposedly don't sell or something. Or that male gamers (which they believe to be the dominant demographic) don't want to play as a woman.

And about representation: It matters. It matters a lot. Couldn't exactly find it, but there's a post on Tumblr where the societal roles of men and women were reversed. And the last image was GIF of a young boy looking at a plaque with pictures of all the American presidents and they were all women. Before that we had a GIF where a couple wanted to watch The Avengers, but all of them were female except for a token man. And do you remember that one kid from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.? All he asked was this: "Why are none of them black?" when looking at a toy line of The Avengers. You know what happened? Mike Peterson wanted to be that black hero for his son, so that he could have someone to look up to. To show that black people could be heroes too.

Equal representation shouldn't be a quota. It should be the standard and accepted way of thinking. Though, it shouldn't be like "oh, we've got two more white male characters! Let's double up on white female characters!" No, not like that. Obviously.

I didn't miss the point as much as I made one.
You still have to somehow show that it's a problem of underrepresentation, because I'm simply not buying this train of logic. I'd even argue that there is no logic and that this is all "feels" in one way or another.

Does it invalidate wishes for representation? Of course not, but it doesn't translate to a direct need for it in any medium - therefore you can't claim it's a problem of underrepresentation and certainly not that it's a irrefutable fact.

Show me where or how it matters (a lot). Where and when is it relevant?

Some companies are fighting for what genders to represent, because they know that most of the buyers/players are going to be men, not because it's tabu to have a female main character and that's perfectly legitimate.
Assassin's Creed didn't get a huge backlash because it made sense in any way, it got it because people currently have this shit mentality that companies have to fulfill their sense of morality. I'm sorry to say that your opinion on "this not having to be a fight" doesn't mean shit for the bottom line or for most of the developers making the damn thing.
On the other hand, if it is a fight and it goes through anyway, then it's earned to be there and has value at least.

When I mention quotas, it's because that's how it'll end up as you can't fix peoples feelings by sometimes doing something different.
If you don't quota it up, people will always point to when you didn't and the gaming news sites will jump on it because it gets them hits.
The other thing is, say a company did include a female character for their huge blockbuster game (fx Bioshock Infinite/Assassin's Creed/Call of Duty/id's RAGE). Why would going against all their consumer data and by far most of their demographic, make it right in any way?

The answer is that it won't magically make it right, because there's no fair way to do this.

Marvel shit on thousands of years of lore and history when they announced a woman Thor and while it perhaps got them a few moral pats on the shoulder, they pissed off a ton of fans and readers for it and sparked arguments everywhere.
Whenever I hear someone say it's a good idea, I ask them why and I never get a straight answer or even one that satisfies themselves.

You can't change established work to satisfy a vocal minority - you have to make new stuff that caters to them and prove the work over time. Otherwise you aren't being fair towards anyone.
If there's no one to take up that mantle, then perhaps there is where someone should start.

Ask yourself, who's missing the point here? Which one of us is blatantly valuing one thing over another?
Hint: It's not me.

Strazdas:

And how many Tomb Raiders are there? How many games did it took this franchise to achieve that? Why was out outdone by a much younger Uncharted franchise?

Mirrors edge has only gone profitable years after release and in fact at first it was deemed a failure untill ME2 eventually got picked up. It also benefited from being the only decent parkour game ever.

I cant comment on good and evil but what im getting at is your cherrypicking examples and even those examples fail to deliver.

Also id like your research on where majority of men are fine with playing as a woman wheras majority of woman arent fine with playing as man. ANd as i stated already, as many woman play games, but different sex tends to dominate different genres. And if you want to include everything from match3 phone games to GTA5 (fastest selling and one of the most expensive games of all time) then felames are not udnerrepresented. they are only underrepresented if we look at AAA industry, and AAA tend to stick to certain genres. Once again, cherry picking a single youtuber does not prove a rule.

Devs dont have to be listening. Devs should be making what they think is a great game and its for audience to buy or not buy it. since the game is bought, it turns out that the audience DOES like it and only some loudmouths were shouting about it.

You do realize that in most countries in the world Females are not allowed into active combat, and most of them into military at all? and even in those few countries where they are this is a VERY new developement? id say its representative to have all male squad in military operations when 99.99% of them actually are all male.

SO artistic freedom only exists if we make characters you like?

You know, if #Gamergate has taught me one thing, then it's that there's no point in going in to a discussion with someone when all you end up doing is repeating yourself over and over again. And I found myself doing that at first. The words "Like I said" kept popping up, for example. So, euh ... I'm done. If you honestly believe everything you wrote, then that's your right. If you want to keep on playing as a man, then go for it. But don't expect everyone else to just sit by and see the gaming industry become even staler than it already is.

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