DC Finally One-Ups Marvel: Wonder Woman Announced For 2017

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Wonder Woman? You mean the most outdated female character of them all that will end up stripped down to be "realz?" Because DC refuses to do anything real with her and updates all the other women?

Why not give the Aqua Man from the super friends his own movie while you're at it?

Both Catwoman and Harley Quinn are more feminist than wonder woman at this point. Cheetah alone is a rad fem which is arguably more modern than wonder woman. Killer Frost is more feminist than wonder woman.

DC needs to start using its lesser known and better characters if it wants a chance. It needs to just copy its lore, and not the crap from the 90s this time. Either drop the hollywood bullshit or go home.

If they want to beat marvel they need to stop being ashamed of the source material and letting hollywood change it so much to make it boring.

Who cares if Harley Quin is a clown? Who cares if Catwoman dresses like a cat and has a 1800s steampunk side kick? Who cares if Cheetah is some crazy fanatic who got her own field of study (Amazon) 100% wrong? Who cares if Killer Frost has icicles coming out of her head?

The only people who would care is the "hur dur fantasy nerds" people and a movie based on a comic already isn't going to appeal to them.

If DC comics can't stand up and actually produce something for its audience in public, then there is no reason to expect any live action DC movie will be good.

I hope they realize that and actually put wonder woman in a wonder woman movie instead of whatever hollywood thinks wonder woman is. Because that crap failed every time Hollywood gets its hands on it.

I don't think one-upping someone in cinema gender dynamics is something that DC is thinking about. They certainly don't think about what it is they're filming most of the time.

Ultratwinkie:

Both Catwoman and Harley Quinn are more feminist than wonder woman at this point. Cheetah alone is a rad fem which is arguably more modern than wonder woman. Killer Frost is more feminist than wonder woman.
.

that's......rather subjective....depending on who you ask.....

OT: this is a good thing...except that DC hasn't proved yet they know what they fuck they're doing

Yeah, lets make a good film first. Which I don't have much faith in.

Also, Didn't marvel make an Elektra film in 2005? She was always a great character. Shame the film sucked.

Also, The Marvel movies female characters were all pretty strong by and large. Focus on that first

Lono Shrugged:
Yeah, lets make a good film first. Which I don't have much faith in.

Also, Didn't marvel make an Elektra film in 2005? She was always a great character. Shame the film sucked.

That was a Fox production, not really a Marvel production since they still don't have a movie studio of their own.

Mcoffey:
Good on Warner Brothers for taking the first step! Now all they have to do is make it a good movie, and not send it up the river because "Women cant star in successful action movies".

Couldn't have said it better myself. It's not just that a Wonder Woman movie will be made, but it has to be a GOOD one, and that's up to the people making it.

RossaLincoln:

Mcoffey:
Good on Warner Brothers for taking the first step! Now all they have to do is make it a good movie, and not send it up the river because "Women cant star in successful action movies".

That's a big if. I think we can probably assume this movie will kind of suck. But it's still interesting as an unknown quantity.

Oh come on, at least wait until they release a trailer before calling it crap. Even MovieBob is cautiously optimistic, and he waits until he sits down and watches a movie before deciding it blows.

Antonio Torrente:

Lono Shrugged:
Yeah, lets make a good film first. Which I don't have much faith in.

Also, Didn't marvel make an Elektra film in 2005? She was always a great character. Shame the film sucked.

That was a Fox production, not really a Marvel production since they still don't have a movie studio of their own.

By that logic DC are not making the Wonder Woman film, Warner Brothers is. Marvel enterprises produced Elektra. Technically DC is not a studio so using that argument invalidates your main point. I know that DC is owned by Warner but then again so is Regency which produced Elektra. Being owned by a company that owns a studio does not make you a studio. Once you get into studio's in their current iterations it gets a bit of a semantic argument.

My point is that DC are not blazing any trails here. Wonder Woman could still under perform terribly if Batman Vs. Superman is a stinker. It's all about the quality not the points scoring.

Wasn't there talk about a Black Widow movie?

MatParker116:
When it comes to Marvel introducing new female heroes I think one's on the way if this photo of Evangeline Lilly is anything to go by:

image

As for Wonder Woman I wish DC the best.

I wish Evangeline Lilly and her Wasp well; hopefully Antman proves to be less troubled than its production history to date would indicate. But Wasp isn't the title character, nor likely the one setting the picture's setting or tone. If presence- or co-lead status- were enough to still the unrest some feel regarding the issue, Gamora or Black Widow would have done so already.

Vault101:

Ultratwinkie:

Both Catwoman and Harley Quinn are more feminist than wonder woman at this point. Cheetah alone is a rad fem which is arguably more modern than wonder woman. Killer Frost is more feminist than wonder woman.
.

that's......rather subjective....depending on who you ask.....

OT: this is a good thing...except that DC hasn't proved yet they know what they fuck they're doing

New 52 Harley Quinn: left Joker and became independent. She learns to not rely on others for validation of the self. She can do whatever she pleases as a truly free woman.

How is that not feminist?

New 52 Killer Frost: She completes the life work of a legendary female scientist and creates a perpetual motion machine that subverts thermodynamics entirely. Supervillains try to destroy it but it turns her into Killer Frost in the process.

She now is trying to desperately work on something that will generate enough heat to turn her human again. Tragic feminist icons are still icons.

New 52 catwoman: Part of a female duo that work together independently.

Tesla being a brilliant child-free feminist who doesn't really care for doing anything else than STEM work and only considers other brilliant STEM people to even be in the running romantically.

Catwoman refuses to let anyone try to change her or drag her down. Again, she uses intelligence and skill over endurance just like tesla.

New 52 Cheetah: A anthropologist with an obsession with Amazonian culture and religion. She spent decades studying their culture. She belongs to a cult of radical feminists who bastardized Amazonian religion to justify their twisted world views through a hunter goddess.

Wonder Woman laughs at Cheetah for being so wrong and wasting her life on falsehoods and misconceptions. That Amazonians don't revere just one god, and that the god Cheetah follows isn't even well liked in Amazonian culture.

So she wants revenge and asks the hunter goddess for help, and she turns into Cheetah.

And what does Wonder Woman do? She proves that women can be just as strong as men. The problem is that is really old school feminism. We already proved women can be just as strong. Sure she serves as a boilerplate to show just how wrong extremist feminism is but that is kinda beside the point.

Wonder Woman would be useless without Cheetah, but the others work fine by themselves. They don't need another person to work.

So how is Wonder Woman more feminist than the others?

Frankly, this just makes more sense at least to me - between Black Widow and WW, I'm far more interested in seeing demi-goddess/amazon ass-kicker than female Jason Bourne. I simply don't know what they could do with BW by herself without inserting her in something game-changing on par with Cap 2. Granted, I'm not under the impression WW will be good either, but it's the one I'd go with given the choice.

Real preference? For the love of God please do She-Hulk - she just has so much more going for her with powers, setting, and impact on the MCU.

Lono Shrugged:

Antonio Torrente:

Lono Shrugged:
Yeah, lets make a good film first. Which I don't have much faith in.

Also, Didn't marvel make an Elektra film in 2005? She was always a great character. Shame the film sucked.

That was a Fox production, not really a Marvel production since they still don't have a movie studio of their own.

By that logic DC are not making the Wonder Woman film, Warner Brothers is. Marvel enterprises produced Elektra. Technically DC is not a studio so using that argument invalidates your main point. I know that DC is owned by Warner but then again so is Regency which produced Elektra. Being owned by a company that owns a studio does not make you a studio. Once you get into studio's in their current iterations it gets a bit of a semantic argument.

My point is that DC are not blazing any trails here. Wonder Woman could still under perform terribly if Batman Vs. Superman is a stinker. It's all about the quality not the points scoring.

My point is that Elektra was made by Fox and Regency(which you said is owned by Warner) with very little input by Marvel and a lot of people are blaming them for that stinker of movie. But let's just say they made it, and think of it as a mistake for them to get better.

OT: Like others said in this thread, what' the point of going first if you're gonna fail miserably? The only way I'm gonna take this WW movie seriously is BvS:DoJ is good if not better than the Avengers which I doubt the will do it as long as that Hack Snyder is the director.

Ross, I don't exactly understand why you've been treating the Wonder-woman movie like the second coming of Jesus or something. It's probably not going to be the kind of feminist revolution you're hoping for....I couldn't say whether I think it would be good or bad, but if I had to trust my gut, I'd probably go with bad...

Well considering they're basing it on New 52 Wonder Woman I'm not enthused.

They've still yet to show me any reason I would like or care about their movies, Wonder Woman or otherwise.

seditary:
Well considering they're basing it on New 52 Wonder Woman I'm not enthused.

They've still yet to show me any reason I would like or care about their movies, Wonder Woman or otherwise.

I am not a serious comic reader, so can you explain to me why the New 52 is loathed in the internet?

Even if DC beats Marvel to the female lead, I bet Marvel beats DC to the first good female lead.

DC/Warner has given me zero reason to have faith in them. Marvel, on the other hand, has made its worst movies more watchable than a lot of DC's best.

DC has yet to establish a universe so I am afraid they are jumping the gun but will reserve judgment until Batman V Superman comes out. Of course, I have some thoughts on it.

The skeptic in me says they are going to crash and burn, trying to make every hero like Batman.
The optimist in me squees in joy reading that they are actually filming a Suicide Squad movie.
The fanboy in me wants to know where the Martian Manhunter is.
The surrealist in me wants to know what time the seahorse is digging to mars.
The marvel fanboy in me can't wait to see how this Batman V Superman compares to Captain America 3.

While I'll agree that Marvel needs to get the lead out on a female-led movie, this is hardly what I would call "one-upping" them. Wonder Woman is one of the big three, and one of the biggest comic names in the world. There is a certain amount of brand recognition there already, and they HAD to do it before launching a JLA movie.

Most of the high-profile females in the Marvel universe are either X-Men (Fox), or counterparts to already established male characters, a remnant of a time when boys were the main demographic. Add that onto the fact that they had already planned their movies out before now, likely not knowing the success Black Widow would see, I'm not surprised Marvel got beat here.

However, I still stand by the statement that while DC got out a "female-led" movie first, they still didn't after Marvel put a talking raccoon on screen. That is a sorry 1-up if I ever saw one.

Edit: If this movie really wanted to be a big deal, it should have happened before the superhero boom and done in place of one of the multitude of Batman movies, or even a Superman movie. As it stands, its a means to an end.

How is DC announcing a movie "one-upping" Marvel? Marvel has made multiple films in a shared continuity and pocketed billions. By all measures they've left DC for dust. Man of Steel was a shit film and they're sticking with the grim, angsty, moody, miserable, serious, colourless theme for everything to follow. DC haven't done anything except say they're making a movie three years from now.

Please stop posting stupid, meaningless headlines.

8BitArchitect:
I fail to see how a cinematic universe with no successful films [snip]

I hate Man of Steel down to my guts, but let's be fair: It did make a lot of money, so I don't think we can dismiss it as unsuccessful without at least defining our terms.

Davroth:
The direct to DVD animated film about her was pretty much as close to perfect as it could get for me.

It had parts I really liked, but other parts--almost exclusively the parts about feminism--were just cringe-inducing to me. Wonder Woman's stance seemed schizophrenic, written by a committee of people with wildly varying understandings, including one MRA who thinks feminism is about attacking men (hence the scene where Wonder Woman bitches at Steve Trevor about being a pig until Steve Trevor yells back at her about how she's no better and puts her in her place), one male writer who thinks feminism is about fighting and violence implied or real (hence the scene where Wonder Woman teaches a small girl how to beat up boys with a stick), and one well-meaning but clumsy advocate (hence the scene where Wonder Woman gets disgusted by the secretary who flirted with Steve Trevor).

It's not a bad movie, but wow, it really fucked those bits up, and I hope the live-action movie learns something from it.

JimB:
It had parts I really liked, but other parts--almost exclusively the parts about feminism--were just cringe-inducing to me. Wonder Woman's stance seemed schizophrenic, written by a committee of people with wildly varying understandings, including one MRA who thinks feminism is about attacking men (hence the scene where Wonder Woman bitches at Steve Trevor about being a pig until Steve Trevor yells back at her about how she's no better and puts her in her place), one male writer who thinks feminism is about fighting and violence implied or real (hence the scene where Wonder Woman teaches a small girl how to beat up boys with a stick), and one well-meaning but clumsy advocate (hence the scene where Wonder Woman gets disgusted by the secretary who flirted with Steve Trevor).

It's not a bad movie, but wow, it really fucked those bits up, and I hope the live-action movie learns something from it.

I believe your concept of the amazons in the DC universe is wrong. She was brought up in an all female society that values fighting prowess very highly, it's a sign of status in her society. It's not about feminism explicitly, I don't think. Those scenes you describe are 'fish out of water' moments for Diana, where she acts based on her societal views, in a society that is actually very different from what she' used to. I thought he movie actually made that part rather clear.

I should also mention that the head writer for the movie actually is a woman, Gail Simone, who incidentally is one of the founders of 'Women in Refrigerators", a website collecting examples of the trope of the same name (The website coined the term). So problems with the portrayal of feminism in the movie would have to be brought up to her, not that non-existent think tank of male writers who supposedly yank poor Wonder Woman in different directions with the way 'they' wrote her.

If they get Megan fox to play Wonder Woman it might be as good as the Catwoman and Elektra movies.

How is this a 'one up'? It's only a success if it isn't Catwoman part 2

Davroth:
I believe your concept of the Amazons in the DC universe is wrong. She was brought up in an all female society that values fighting prowess very highly, it's a sign of status in her society.

I know all about the Amazons, though admittedly I'm not sure how much of the mythology got translated to the movie. Time was, the Amazonians were all the reincarnated spirits of women who died at the hands of male violence, and were brought into a society free of man's wars to grow and prosper among her sisters (who, yes, do value a warrior philosophy despite their home being a peaceful utopia called Paradise Island; the Amazons are kind of paradoxical like that), which is why Diana's "birth" is so unique and special to them, since the Amazons don't have babies. This somewhat convoluted arrangement allowed the women of Themiscyra to define themselves not according to their relationships with men but according to their relationships with themselves and with one another. I think the movie badly misses the point of all that if it thinks introducing a penis to the arrangement means all that work had been for nothing and the Amazons, particularly Wonder fucking Woman herself, will suddenly adopt an identity of opposition to those eeeeevil testicles and the life support system they dangle from.

Now, while I admit that feminism wouldn't be an idea Wonder Woman would hold with prior to her arrival in man's world because there's no need for it, from a narrative standpoint and from a pop culture awareness perspective, Wonder Woman is supposed to be a feminist icon. She's the ideal for girls to aspire to (never mind the dodgy message of her wearing a teddy and high heels everywhere), strong and confident and self-defined and completely devoid of a need for a man to define her, whether the relationship with that man is romantic, antagonistic, platonic, or anything else on that spectrum. Feminism is part and parcel of her package, and that's why I hate to see it fucked up so bad by such shallow understandings of what feminism is.

Davroth:
I should also mention that the head writer for the movie actually is a woman, Gail Simone, who incidentally is one of the founders of 'Women in Refrigerators," a website collecting examples of the trope of the same name (the website coined the term).

Yeah, yeah, I know Gail Simone. All hail the immaculate Simone. Thing is, I don't see how her presence deflects any criticism, unless your argument is, "A feminist wrote this, so all of the feminist viewpoints in it are correct." If that's the case, then allow me to introduce you to the works of Valerie Solanas, a self-described feminist who couldn't have missed the point any harder.

Similarly, she's the head writer. That means there are writers under her, and that also means she is neither the director nor the producers, all of whom have a much greater say on what goes into the movie than a writer does...or at least that's how it works in live action; as I write these words, I confess I can see how the process would be different when in the realm of animation. Still, though. Just because she was the highest-paid of all the movie's writers doesn't mean she's in control of what scenes occurred and how.

Davroth:
So problems with the portrayal of feminism in the movie would have to be brought up to her, not that nonexistent think tank of male writers who supposedly yank poor Wonder Woman in different directions with the way 'they' wrote her.

I know it's nonexistent. It was a simile. But if we're counting these things (and I don't see why we should be, because my comparisons notwithstanding, a writer's sex is neither an instant base hit nor an instant strike-out, but let's play along), IMDB credits two writers. One of them is Gail Simone, who co-wrote the story; the other is Michael Jelenic, who wrote the screenplay.

I'd be more excited if they were making a Cyborg TV show, considering they seem to be better at it.

I hope their obsession with grim and gloom is gone by the time the movie hits, Cyborg is one of my favorite DC characters.

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