ESA, IGDA: Threats, Personal Attacks Have No Place in Games

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ESA, IGDA: Threats, Personal Attacks Have No Place in Games

IGDA

The Entertainment Software Association and International Game Developers Association speak out in the New York Times and the Washington Post against GamerGate and harassment.

Spokespersons from the Entertainment Software Association and International Game Developers Association have both condemned the threats of violence and harassment sent to women in game development, journalism, and criticism. Speaking to the New York Times and the Washington Post, the ESA and IGDA agree this has no place in games.

The ongoing threats, including a shooting threat at USU which led feminist critic Anita Sarkeesian to cancel her speech, as well as threats that have led to independent game developer Brianna Wu leaving her home, have occurred during the movement GamerGate. Both Sarkeesian and Wu have alleged GamerGate was involved in the threats.

"Threats of violence and harassment are wrong," a spokesperson from the ESA, the E3 organizer and trade group, told the New York Times today in a front-page article of the newspaper. "They have to stop. There is no place in the video game community - or our society - for personal attacks and threats."

Kate Edwards, executive director of the IGDA, told the New York Times game companies have made some progress in the depiction of women in games. She cited the rebooted Tomb Raider's Lara Croft as an example of an emotionally complex character with more realistic proportions.

In the Washington Post Edwards spoke out against GamerGate and criticized the industry for catering to a demographic that is not supportive of women. "This group is out of touch. The whole community, the world around them has changed, but they think that's not the case," she said.

"The irony of this movement is that they want journalistic integrity, but are looking to squash the voices of women at all costs," she continued. "The logic is completely lacking."

Edwards told the Washington Post many women have approached her with their concerns of the industry, as they have considered leaving or discouraging other women from working in the game industry.

The IGDA began meeting with the FBI in June, before GamerGate began, to work together to prevent harassment of developers. Edwards had not talked directly to Sarkeesian but was using her situation to educate developers. The IGDA provides resources to developers with help from the FBI. The FBI was aware of other threats Sarkeesian has experienced and is investigating.

"One nice effect of this sad event is that it's tied developers together," Edwards said. "We need to be better at supporting each other not just during events like this, but all the time."

Source: New York Times, Washington Post

Permalink

And yet, nobody on the more contentious side of the GamerGate fiasco seems particularly worried. I've seen academic papers related to game theory that had the misfortune of being penned by female writers, and who were almost successfully contaminated by an influx of idiots filling the online questionnaire's fields with witty banter along the lines of "Suck my dick" or "Get back in the kitchen, ho!"

And why? Because the GamerGaters have allowed morons like 4Chan's b-tards to pollute the debate. Dig around and you'll see that a few of them like to engineer situations in which they act as both perpetrator and would-be savior. One hand doxxes and actively threatens, the other creates iconography for the Feminist arm of the movement.

As much as I'm a fan of unregulated spaces open to discussion, that approach needs to be punished. Nobody should get to act as both abuser and rescuer, as that's not only illogical but also puerile.

At some point, the so-called lulz have to stop, and consequences have to be made tangible. I can't wait for the round of prosecutions to start scorching minors or immature adults who thought that horsing around on an imageboard was without consequences whatsoever.

IamLEAM1983:
And yet, nobody on the more contentious side of the GamerGate fiasco seems particularly worried. I've seen academic papers related to game theory that had the misfortune of being penned by female writers, and who were almost successfully contaminated by an influx of idiots filling the online questionnaire's fields with witty banter along the lines of "Suck my dick" or "Get back in the kitchen, ho!"

And why? Because the GamerGaters have allowed morons like 4Chan's b-tards to pollute the debate. Dig around and you'll see that a few of them like to engineer situations in which they act as both perpetrator and would-be savior. One hand doxxes and actively threatens, the other creates iconography for the Feminist arm of the movement.

As much as I'm a fan of unregulated spaces open to discussion, that approach needs to be punished. Nobody should get to act as both abuser and rescuer, as that's not only illogical but also puerile.

At some point, the so-called lulz have to stop, and consequences have to be made tangible. I can't wait for the round of prosecutions to start scorching minors or immature adults who thought that horsing around on an imageboard was without consequences whatsoever.

I do agree, I am hoping that if they are able to find out the people that are making these threats it might stop the negativity from both sides and maybe we can discuss the matter that people saying the issue to be about. Now what I am finding troubling beyond this GamerGate fiasco, is the amount of recklessness towards other people the "gamer" culture is starting to present itself as. We have had terrorist threats against airplanes, bomb threats, mass shooting threats, and SWATing. I wish the consequences of those actions became as public as the acts themselves and maybe it wouldn't become so frequent.

It's downright pathetic to see these people try to take the moral high ground. Instead of saying "deaths threat and the like are a terrible thing and we don't condone it for either side", they are taking the childish route of "They said it! Not me!". And yet the media clings to theirs because, of the two, the "anti" GamerGate group has more publicly seen and known group. As one journalist said on Twitter, it's a terrible thing to send death threats to Zoe Quinn or Anita Sarkeesian, but why should we care if a ten year old gets has his personal information thrown out on the Internet and threatened with physical violence towards his family and friends.

That right there IS disgusting, no matter what side that you are on. Yet again it doesn't seem to matter because one group has a public face and the other doesn't. Not that it matters that if, say, a female speaks up on and says she agrees with GamerGate she's immediately labeled a "house n-word", or the fact that in even the Escapist's female Devs speak out article, a couple actually spoke out against a lot of the nonsense that plagued both sides. You would never see them do that publicly however because this same sort of harassment and abuse exists on both sides, but it's easier to demonize a faceless mass - just ask everyone in charge of making war propaganda.

And that is what this is. You have insane people on both sides screwing everything up for everyone else. And while both sides have had others demonising the other group, this particular half is the one that gets the media. This side is the one who commits the sin of casting a wide net to catch a few fish, and don't care about if anything else gets caught up in it as well. I'll say it again, but it's disgusting. I also find it funny they talk about Lara Crofts rebooted character shown as a strong female lead like what people want to see, yet earlier in the year you had women decrying the need of her seeing a psychologist with the cry of "men don't do it, why should she!". Nevermind the more realistic tone the female writer behind a lot of the game was obviously going for a much more realistic tone overall compared to the general "I'll acknowledge but ignore it" that most videogame characters tend to apply with horrifying ordeals.

Lara Croft is an emotionally complex character now? lol okay.

OT: Why has it taken the ESA and IGDA this long to publicly respond to the hate and threats? This has been occurring throughout the last few years especially with Anita Sarkeesian long before the hashtag of gamergate. People should not have to be driven from their homes and have attendees' lives threatened at a speech to have them take this long to issue a public response.

circularlogic88:

OT: Why has it taken the ESA and IGDA this long to publicly respond to the hate and threats?

These groups, but especially IGDA will only choose a stance if they are forced to to remain relevant, IGDA took a hell of a long time to remove Tim Langell from his post at IGDA, and that was Langdell stepping down than any real action by IGDA... its a toothless organisation, all suits but no action.
Tim Langdell was a rather voracious IP Troll that claimed the word EDGE, and woe betide ANY small fry that dared to include that word... in the end he got funny with EA over Mirrors Edge and that was him undone, other snippets of his past included running from UK debts and failing to pay contracted artists and coders for his older titles.
He was also on the board of IGDA.

Sanunes:
We have had terrorist threats against airplanes, bomb threats, mass shooting threats, and SWATing. I wish the consequences of those actions became as public as the acts themselves and maybe it wouldn't become so frequent.

One issue I do have with some arms of the gamer culture and, honestly, with the Internet in general, is that it tends to enable the kids as much as the adults. If you're a petulant kid or an adult still prone to bouts of really petulant spite, you'll find everything you'll need to carry out your ridiculously impulsive and utterly misinformed attacks or data-mining attempts.

It's not so much a question of whether or not we need to ban the young 'uns from using Pastebin, Pastie and the like or of figuring out how one goes about crafting a phone call that's dramatic enough to send a SWAT team to someone else's door; and more an issue of education. Manners, honestly, is what's lacking.

I mean, go figure. "Don't be a dick" is a basic axiom anyone would claim to follow in real life, but as soon as the keyboard enters the picture? Ooooh shit, all bets are off. The culture does have a serious issue with how to word things, seeing how I've sometimes been told to go die in a fire by people who should've just told me they don't agree with me. I think it's starting to seep into other areas, otherwise we wouldn't have 4Chan types considering that doxxing is a fairly basic procedure. It really shouldn't be.

Personally, the closest thing I've ever done that gets even remotely close to doxxing involves looking through the Yellow Pages to find a professor's phone number... That's kind of miles and leagues away from collating worrying files on people.

IamLEAM1983:
And yet, nobody on the more contentious side of the GamerGate fiasco seems particularly worried. I've seen academic papers related to game theory that had the misfortune of being penned by female writers, and who were almost successfully contaminated by an influx of idiots filling the online questionnaire's fields with witty banter along the lines of "Suck my dick" or "Get back in the kitchen, ho!"

And why? Because the GamerGaters have allowed morons like 4Chan's b-tards to pollute the debate. Dig around and you'll see that a few of them like to engineer situations in which they act as both perpetrator and would-be savior. One hand doxxes and actively threatens, the other creates iconography for the Feminist arm of the movement.

As much as I'm a fan of unregulated spaces open to discussion, that approach needs to be punished. Nobody should get to act as both abuser and rescuer, as that's not only illogical but also puerile.

At some point, the so-called lulz have to stop, and consequences have to be made tangible. I can't wait for the round of prosecutions to start scorching minors or immature adults who thought that horsing around on an imageboard was without consequences whatsoever.

Your comment fascinates me.

I'm legitimately curious how anyone would be able to stop people from 4chan from arbitrarily hopping onto twitter with any given account, plopping a hashtag into their post, and messing with people to get the results they want.

You claim people "allowed" this to happen, but that gives the implication there is any ability to stop it whatsoever. So if you've got a solution, I'm sure everyone on the internet, not just people in this GamerGate business would love to hear about it.

Areloch:
Your comment fascinates me.

I'm legitimately curious how anyone would be able to stop people from 4chan from arbitrarily hopping onto twitter with any given account, plopping a hashtag into their post, and messing with people to get the results they want.

You claim people "allowed" this to happen, but that gives the implication there is any ability to stop it whatsoever. So if you've got a solution, I'm sure everyone on the internet, not just people in this GamerGate business would love to hear about it.

My point is that I don't know. I'm no expert, I'm just a guy who's getting a little peeved by this fiasco, and who thinks that some amount of legislation needs to take place. You're right, stopping anyone from hopping on Twitter is virtually impossible, but once certain actions start to garner toxic results, some sort of comeuppance should come into play.

I mean, I have to admit that differentiating grassroots investigations from orchestrated slander attempts is pretty hard at the onset - but SOMEHOW, there needs to be repercussions to what 4Chan and its allies are orchestrating. There just needs to be. I feel like we're just stuck looking at mild sociopaths having a field day online, or idiots who haven't realized just how noxious their little charades are turning out to be - and that infuriates me.

It's very disappointing to see the awful view that people like this.

image

Don't exist and only people "Supporting Gamergate" are the ones saying awful things.

IamLEAM1983:

Areloch:
Your comment fascinates me.

I'm legitimately curious how anyone would be able to stop people from 4chan from arbitrarily hopping onto twitter with any given account, plopping a hashtag into their post, and messing with people to get the results they want.

You claim people "allowed" this to happen, but that gives the implication there is any ability to stop it whatsoever. So if you've got a solution, I'm sure everyone on the internet, not just people in this GamerGate business would love to hear about it.

My point is that I don't know. I'm no expert, I'm just a guy who's getting a little peeved by this fiasco, and who thinks that some amount of legislation needs to take place. You're right, stopping anyone from hopping on Twitter is virtually impossible, but once certain actions start to garner toxic results, some sort of comeuppance should come into play.

I mean, I have to admit that differentiating grassroots investigations from orchestrated slander attempts is pretty hard at the onset - but SOMEHOW, there needs to be repercussions to what 4Chan and its allies are orchestrating. There just needs to be. I feel like we're just stuck looking at mild sociopaths having a field day online, or idiots who haven't realized just how noxious their little charades are turning out to be - and that infuriates me.

I understand that and agree.

However, it's unfair to everyone involved to imply culpability in the actions of those toxic people merely because they have no power to stop them.

The best I've seen is publicly calling them out, and reporting them. But that doesn't deal with the source. They will just make a new account, and continue as they do.

So to harangue the people being "contaminated" by that stupidity is nearly as unjust as the people being targeted by said stupidity having to deal with it at all.

All I ask is to not blame people who are just as impotent as yourself in solving the problem simply because they cannot solve it. Absolutely call out poor behavior, but don't blame people that aren't doing it.

Areloch:
All I ask is to not blame people who are just as impotent as yourself in solving the problem simply because they cannot solve it. Absolutely call out poor behavior, but don't blame people that aren't doing it.

I would agree, it's not fair of me to point fingers at anyone. However, I haven't seen that many indications of 4Chan's own members trying to take a stand by distancing themselves from the more toxic members in their group. 4Chan's internal policy's been one of general laissez-faire for years.

Blame my poor choice of words, then. Those that are specifically responsible need to be brought to justice, somehow. As to those B-tards that aren't doing anything more reprehensible than the board's usual counterculture stuff, that's fine. I have zero ill will towards people who basically just want to have fun on that platform while STILL remaining responsible and mature human beings.

The Lunatic:
It's very disappointing to see the awful view that people like this.

image

Don't exist and only people "Supporting Gamergate" are the ones saying awful things.

Probably because GamerGate appears more organized than it really is and it doesn't have any actual organized opposition what so ever. Just random individuals and groups who disagrees with what it claims to stand for or aren't part of the conflict at all.

Great. Just great. Yet another large organization going "the entirety of GamerGate are harassing, sexist assholes who just want to silence women". No acknowledgement of harassment towards GGers or anything, nor even a slight acknowledgement that not everyone in GG is like that (seriously, "the whole community"?).

Fuck, this is almost enough to make me support GG again. Almost.

Apologies if I'm seeming a bit hostile, btw. Absolutes and putting words or ideas into people's mouths are just pet peeves of mine is all.

V da Mighty Taco:
Great. Just great. Yet another large organization going "the entirety of GamerGate are harassing, sexist assholes who just want to silence women". No acknowledgement of harassment towards GGers or anything, nor even a slight acknowledgement that not everyone in GG is like that (seriously, "the whole community"?).

Point is it doesn't matter. It's not a movement but it pretends to be one. That's why you get stuff like that.

Nimcha:

V da Mighty Taco:
Great. Just great. Yet another large organization going "the entirety of GamerGate are harassing, sexist assholes who just want to silence women". No acknowledgement of harassment towards GGers or anything, nor even a slight acknowledgement that not everyone in GG is like that (seriously, "the whole community"?).

Point is it doesn't matter. It's not a movement but it pretends to be one. That's why you get stuff like that.

It's thousands of people standing for a cause that they strongly believe in. That makes it a movement.

I feel that this video is pretty much required watching for GamerGate-related discussion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtzrUsi6Y1s

Too many B.S. shenanigans over something that is just a game.

List of how to avoid stuff like this:

1) Treat other's equally and fairly
2) Be honest
3) Earn your praise through hard work and effort
4) Learn how to form your own opinions instead of taking in one person's bias (however, if everyone went by #2 this wouldn't be needed)

This is all just people being shitty to each other for what they feel may be for their own self benefit, on either side. And at no point everrrrrrrrrrrr should someone threaten to kill someone over a freaking game....that's just so mind blowing and subhuman to take something to such an extreme over a game. It's not like the people making threats have anything riding on the well being of the game other than it didn't meet their entertainment expectations or whatever. No one has the right to be that pissed because when they screamed entertain me, they didn't get what they want...lrn2doforyourself

I identify as a gamer in the same way I identify as a carpenter. I enjoy the work, I do it for fun, I study it. It to me is a hobby. I do not really understand gamergate, but I do not think threatening is ever right. Neither is ddosing people or posting there info.

I really dont like the suggestion thay considering myself a gamer somehow makes me a misogynistic hater.

V da Mighty Taco:

Nimcha:

V da Mighty Taco:
Great. Just great. Yet another large organization going "the entirety of GamerGate are harassing, sexist assholes who just want to silence women". No acknowledgement of harassment towards GGers or anything, nor even a slight acknowledgement that not everyone in GG is like that (seriously, "the whole community"?).

Point is it doesn't matter. It's not a movement but it pretends to be one. That's why you get stuff like that.

It's thousands of people standing for a cause that they strongly believe in. That makes it a movement.

No, it's not. There's no cause and there's no way to determine if people actually believe the same as what you believe.

It's like Occupy all over again.

circularlogic88:
Lara Croft is an emotionally complex character now? lol okay.

Why, yes, she is. Times changed, and she changed with it. I'm VERY happy with the result.

On topic, when both the IGDA and the ESA condemn your "movement", the movement has lost the altruistic edge. It's too toxic and poisonous now. The tide has turned. It's doing FAR more harm now then good.

V da Mighty Taco:
Great. Just great. Yet another large organization going "the entirety of GamerGate are harassing, sexist assholes who just want to silence women". No acknowledgement of harassment towards GGers or anything, nor even a slight acknowledgement that not everyone in GG is like that (seriously, "the whole community"?).

Fuck, this is almost enough to make me support GG again. Almost.

Apologies if I'm seeming a bit hostile, btw. Absolutes and putting words or ideas into people's mouths are just pet peeves of mine is all.

This is the biggest organization of gaming on the planet. These are gaming industry leaders and developers and organizers and promoters. And this is what they feel GamerGate is. That's the public AND the industry's opinion and interpretation of events. GamerGate is toxic, no matter what good you or others intended. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, after all.

For anyone who legitimately feels "journalistic integrity" is what GamerGate is about, I would encourage you to keep up that fight... but not under a label, a hashtag, and a "movement". I've been fighting for journalistic integrity LONG before GamerGate was a thing, and I'll push for it long after GamerGate dies out. I don't need a catchy hashtag tainted by voracious idiots and misogynists to do what I've always done before.

Let's start pushing for something more important now: Inclusivity. Something to stand by our women in games, to be that vocal voice going "we're with you. Don't let the morons get you down." A movement to say "thank you" to those talented women out there that helped create those games you loved, like Portal, Bioshock, Tomb Raider, Mirror's Edge, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, Gears of War, and so many others that had female developers and writers and producers heavily involved in bringing them to life.

Can we work on that, please?

Thanks #Gamergate! Because of you, the vile SOPA pushing lobbyists of the ESA are now the heroes in this story, but what could we really expect from the gaming community's Tea Party?: http://www.motivationals.org/demotivational-posters/demotivational-poster-15177.jpg

This was your best chance to include the on-going and previous harassments of countless of people on the pro-gamergate side. I thought you had changed for the better, Escapist? What happened? Of course the harassment of those people is extremely bad, but there's so many more people that are getting harassed, abused and whatnot. This paints it like only anti-gamergaters are getting harassed, which is most certainly not true. If anything, the majority of people getting harassed is on Gamergate's side. ALL OF IT NEEDS TO STOP.

I find it really amusing that people are siding with the individuals who have been identified as corrupt by their own verifiable actions, in favor of attacking a nebulous group for behavior that no one can even confirm was done by them. That's pretty brave. Never mind that people within GamerGate have been making it a point to police and condemn their own troublemakers(with the little ability they have to do so given the anonymous nature of its membership) while the journalists and developers themselves are out there making the same kinds of threats and insults with no internal pushback. The hypocrisy is staggering.

It's really an excellent case study in how much power we give to presentation vs. substance in our society. A classic illustration of the power of narrative vs. facts. It's actually rather depressing to see it play out like this and doesn't leave me with much hope for our species.

I agree. Threats and attacks have no place in the gaming community. The people that do use threats and personal attacks just serve to undermine the gaming community and make outside observers seem as we are immature and childish.

Bentusi16:

I really dont like the suggestion thay considering myself a gamer somehow makes me a misogynistic hater.

I actually got called a misogynist by some feminists on my capmus a few days ago just because I identified myself as a gamer. Told those people to piss off after that, but it's really sad when both sides are on such big extremes that any person with a moderate view suddenly gets labelled things they aren't. If people want me to be a part of their movement, being a passive-aggressive jerk will not only not want me to be a part of your group, it makes me want your group to fail just to be vindictive. Which is sad because I do want some more inclusion for women in games. If people want change, then vote with your wallets, as those are the most powerful weapons any person has.

And no, threats and personal attacks don't have a place in video games. So kindly tell both sides this as that is what they keep doing while point fingers that the other one started it.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to play some video games while everyone else fights among each other.

Aramis Night:
I find it really amusing that people are siding with the individuals who have been identified as corrupt by their own verifiable actions, in favor of attacking a nebulous group for behavior that no one can even confirm was done by them. That's pretty brave. Never mind that people within GamerGate have been making it a point to police and condemn their own troublemakers(with the little ability they have to do so given the anonymous nature of its membership) while the journalists and developers themselves are out there making the same kinds of threats and insults with no internal pushback. The hypocrisy is staggering.

It's really an excellent case study in how much power we give to presentation vs. substance in our society. A classic illustration of the power of narrative vs. facts. It's actually rather depressing to see it play out like this and doesn't leave me with much hope for our species.

Sure, there are genocidal wars being waged at this very moment, millions living in poverty and disease, children starving to death across the ocean, rape victims, murders, lynchings, terrorism, homophobia, and natural disasters aplenty...

... But video game journalism and the loss of respect for a silly hashtag are enough to make you "lose hope for our species".

If that causes you to lose faith in the human species, your priorities were vastly misplaced.

All of this reminds me so heavily of people in Southern states clinging to the Confederate flag, yelling loudly that "it's not about slavery! It's about Southern pride!" when the rest of the world sighs and tries to either tell them it lost that meaning long ago, or they ignore that group entirely as clueless and outdated.

Besides, even if GamerGate stood for "journalistic integrity", the targeted women in this case don't even fit that profile: one of them isn't a journalist at all, another was funded by fans and accepted NO industry money to cover games, another simply retweeted some image macros. Beyond that, there are FAR more egregious problems in the industry other than (disproven) accusations of a female developer sleeping with a journalist for flattering coverage.

It's so childish to stand behind a hashtag, needing a name for a movement that lost its way, instead of abandoning the name or, more tellingly, standing up for these harassed women and victims but not doing so because "they're on the wrong side" of your chosen petty feud.

If anything, all these women should be held up as heroes for representing exactly what so-called champions of GamerGate claim to represent: bastions of clean journalism and indie development in a sea of corrupt, unafraid to speak their minds and open the door to dialogue and discourse.

V da Mighty Taco:

Nimcha:

V da Mighty Taco:
Great. Just great. Yet another large organization going "the entirety of GamerGate are harassing, sexist assholes who just want to silence women". No acknowledgement of harassment towards GGers or anything, nor even a slight acknowledgement that not everyone in GG is like that (seriously, "the whole community"?).

Point is it doesn't matter. It's not a movement but it pretends to be one. That's why you get stuff like that.

It's thousands of people standing for a cause that they strongly believe in. That makes it a movement.

Yet for all their claims of wanting to fight corruption in gaming journalism, Gaters (I refuse to call them Gamers) were silent when Gamespot canned Jeff Gerstmann for panning Kane and Lynch.

Zaydin:

Yet for all their claims of wanting to fight corruption in gaming journalism, Gaters (I refuse to call them Gamers) were silent when Gamespot canned Jeff Gerstmann for panning Kane and Lynch.

That's the baffling thing to me.

There are SO many bigger, worse, demonstrably proven problems in the industry. Where were they then? Why aren't they speaking up against these and many OTHER issues? Why is it just the female devs and journalists getting the brunt of these attacks and criticism?

Even the whole trigger for this movement, a jilted ex posting slanderous things about his ex-girlfriend, was found to be without merit, and yet it's STILL being brought up as a sign of corruption... and yet, oddly enough, you don't hear about the male journalist much, or the fact that, if it WAS true, that they'd be using their leverage of journalistic power to solicit sex from a struggling dev to promote her (FREE) game... but none of these really seems to get addressed.

I agree those things don't have any place in the video game community and our society. Journalists from gaming websites should really stop sending death threats.

I wonder if ESA and IGDA would include calling people Misogynists and/or bigots in that for not sharing your point of view in that condemnation.

Ukomba:
I agree those things don't have any place in the video game community and our society. Journalists from gaming websites should really stop sending death threats.

I wonder if ESA and IGDA would include calling people Misogynists and/or bigots in that for not sharing your point of view in that condemnation.

I believe ESA and IGDA are calling the misogynists and the bigots "misogynists and bigots". If you don't fall under that umbrella, they aren't talking to you.

But the GamerGate "movement" is now irreversibly associated with "misogynists and bigots". At this point, standing behind a hashtag so rigidly instead of stepping back and seeing the bigger picture (even within their war against "industry corruption". There's a LOT more problems in the industry going on than a jilted, spiteful ex throwing accusations at his former flame. Where was this movement then?)

Trishbot:

Ukomba:
I agree those things don't have any place in the video game community and our society. Journalists from gaming websites should really stop sending death threats.

I wonder if ESA and IGDA would include calling people Misogynists and/or bigots in that for not sharing your point of view in that condemnation.

I believe ESA and IGDA are calling the misogynists and the bigots "misogynists and bigots". If you don't fall under that umbrella, they aren't talking to you.

But the GamerGate "movement" is now irreversibly associated with "misogynists and bigots". At this point, standing behind a hashtag so rigidly instead of stepping back and seeing the bigger picture (even within their war against "industry corruption". There's a LOT more problems in the industry going on than a jilted, spiteful ex throwing accusations at his former flame. Where was this movement then?)

Right, the personal attacks are ok if you're doing it. Got you. I mean, making a slanderous statement like they "are looking to squash the voices of women at all costs" that's fine. but pointing out actual issues with the reporting is bigoted. That's fine, I can see where your bias is.

Zaydin:

V da Mighty Taco:

Nimcha:

Point is it doesn't matter. It's not a movement but it pretends to be one. That's why you get stuff like that.

It's thousands of people standing for a cause that they strongly believe in. That makes it a movement.

Yet for all their claims of wanting to fight corruption in gaming journalism, Gaters (I refuse to call them Gamers) were silent when Gamespot canned Jeff Gerstmann for panning Kane and Lynch.

I'm assuming you must be ignorant to gaming media prior to 2009? Try googling "Gerstmann gate" and come back and tell me people were silent about it. Several websites had dozens of articles, created tags even specifically for this, and you want to try and say people were silent?

People on both sides of the fence for the "GamerGate" have said before that part of the reason this has blown up into the beast it is was because websites were actively stifling conversation. It added fuel to the fires of conspiracy talk, and when outside political forces started jumping in on the bandwagon, it got out of control. Or did you forget who originally came up with the name "GamerGate"?

Ukomba:

Right, the personal attacks are ok if you're doing it. Got you. I mean, making a slanderous statement like they "are looking to squash the voices of women at all costs" that's fine. but pointing out actual issues with the reporting is bigoted. That's fine, I can see where your bias is.

I think you're getting a tad too emotionally wrapped up in this, because these statements were not directed at you. They were directed at the "misogynists and bigots" who, yes, do want to "squash the voices of women at all costs". That's factual, and if you aren't with them, don't stand alongside them.

Critique away. I never called you bigoted. But the IGDA and ESA responded to terrorist and death threats, not to criticism of game journalism.

Your own bias seems to be skewing your perspective on this topic and making generalized comments about bad individuals a personal affront. You should have nothing to be defensive about unless you're one of those that agree the harassment and death threats weren't an issue or that you condone the actions. If you don't, then they were not talking to you, at all, and you shouldn't care.

SilverHunter:

People on both sides of the fence for the "GamerGate" have said before that part of the reason this has blown up into the beast it is was because websites were actively stifling conversation. It added fuel to the fires of conspiracy talk, and when outside political forces started jumping in on the bandwagon, it got out of control. Or did you forget who originally came up with the name "GamerGate"?

It blew up in the beast it did because a bitter, jealous, angry ex went to a group of trolls, made up a bunch of stories about her (many outright disproven), and said trolls went on the warpath, organizing and going after people so barely even related to the concept of "journalistic integrity" that it's almost laughable.

Adam Baldwin started the name, but even he didn't have all the info at the time, and even his criticism of the industry are almost barely related to the harassment and vitriolic environment stemming from the movement now.

Even if it DID start out as something positive, it's no longer that way. Or do you also believe the swastika is still a Buddhist good luck symbol? When a good cause is corrupted and perverted beyond repair, it's a better use of time and energy to abandon a silly, pointless hashtag or title and just, well, be a decent human being without a mascot to stand behind.

I've been promoting reform in the game industry long before Adam Baldwin said something catchy. I'll do it long after the "movement" fades from recent memory. I don't need a hashtag to be a decent human being. I won't was my time and defend a hashtag from haters, or to spend more time defending a hashtag from criticism than actually talking about the issues I care about, or to use a hashtag to stand up for the oppressed and victimized, or glean my sense of pride as a gamer from something a someone somewhere wrote in generalities. I've been doing this stuff for years without it. Why do I need it now?

Trishbot:

Aramis Night:
I find it really amusing that people are siding with the individuals who have been identified as corrupt by their own verifiable actions, in favor of attacking a nebulous group for behavior that no one can even confirm was done by them. That's pretty brave. Never mind that people within GamerGate have been making it a point to police and condemn their own troublemakers(with the little ability they have to do so given the anonymous nature of its membership) while the journalists and developers themselves are out there making the same kinds of threats and insults with no internal pushback. The hypocrisy is staggering.

It's really an excellent case study in how much power we give to presentation vs. substance in our society. A classic illustration of the power of narrative vs. facts. It's actually rather depressing to see it play out like this and doesn't leave me with much hope for our species.

Sure, there are genocidal wars being waged at this very moment, millions living in poverty and disease, children starving to death across the ocean, rape victims, murders, lynchings, terrorism, homophobia, and natural disasters aplenty...

... But video game journalism and the loss of respect for a silly hashtag are enough to make you "lose hope for our species".

Thank you for illustrating my point about framing while ignoring context. Good job.

If that causes you to lose faith in the human species, your priorities were vastly misplaced.

All of this reminds me so heavily of people in Southern states clinging to the Confederate flag, yelling loudly that "it's not about slavery! It's about Southern pride!" when the rest of the world sighs and tries to either tell them it lost that meaning long ago, or they ignore that group entirely as clueless and outdated.

We'll seeing as how the union included 4 slaveholding states during the civil war(exempt from the emancipation proclamation btw), they might have a point. But again, let's continue to not address facts and instead support a narrative instead. Wow another great example that you have illustrated of my point.

Besides, even if GamerGate stood for "journalistic integrity", the targeted women in this case don't even fit that profile: one of them isn't a journalist at all, another was funded by fans and accepted NO industry money to cover games, another simply retweeted some image macros. Beyond that, there are FAR more egregious problems in the industry other than (disproven) accusations of a female developer sleeping with a journalist for flattering coverage.

The issue is one of collusion between journalists and developers at the expense of other developers who are not being given a fair chance at representation in the media because of personal and financial ties that indicate corruption and blatant favoritism. This goes far beyond who slept with who and has been the case ever since the GamerGate tag was created. What your referring to is the 5 guys burgers and fries/quinnspiracy. That was back when people were being criticized and dismissed simply because they were asking the question of whether there was any truth to the Zoe post put up by her ex and what it might mean if the contents of it had any truth to it regarding the accusations of Zoe sleeping with other industry people. GamerGate didn't start until the attacks against gamers as a group started as well as the censorship and shaming simply for asking questions that people hoped the journalists themselves would investigate. No one believed this was anything more than an isolated incident with a few bad actors being unprofessional until all the journalists turned on anyone who was asking for this to be looked into. That is what lead to GamerGate.

It's so childish to stand behind a hashtag, needing a name for a movement that lost its way, instead of abandoning the name or, more tellingly, standing up for these harassed women and victims but not doing so because "they're on the wrong side" of your chosen petty feud.

If anything, all these women should be held up as heroes for representing exactly what so-called champions of GamerGate claim to represent: bastions of clean journalism and indie development in a sea of corrupt, unafraid to speak their minds and open the door to dialogue and discourse.

So how many more name changes do we have to go through before we are allowed to have our grievances heard then? So far changing the name or hashtag hasn't made a difference in terms of how we are perceived, because the journalists who are clearly opposed to us control the narrative. One you have clearly uncritically bought into. So where is this discourse that your praising these women for? So far all I see is the promotion of echo chambers.

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