StarCraft 2 Tournament Boots Player for Rape Comment

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WhiteTigerShiro:

BoogieManFL:
If he said "Gonna go rape some dude" this would not be news worthy and no one would have cared.

Think about that for a minute.

If his opponent was some dude, he wouldn't have felt the need to point-out the gender of his opponent.

Think about that for a minute.

Why does pointing out the gender mean anything?

Aaron Sylvester:

First Lastname:
Unprofessional and incredibly stupid comment, but it's definitely not something to be disqualified over. Trash talk is just that, trash talk. It's unsportsmanlike and makes you seem like an ass at times, but it's not something that is so bad that it must be worthy of disqualification from that alone.

But can't you see it's the reason for the lack of females in eSports?

Yeah... if someone mentioning rape is the main thing keeping women out of eSports then that doesn't really speak highly for women. Let's also not forget that one time of legitimate harassment against an all female eSports team was perpetuated by women, so this isn't exactly a gender issue.

Even idra was not this stupid. But... occam's razor tells me that he did not quite know that the english word rape has such strong implications, given the few english interviews I have seen of him.

Double standard and all that, jaedong said on korean television that he envisions himself physically murdering his opponent (something much worse than rape) and everybody laughs it off.

Nods Respectfully Towards You:
Let's also not forget that one time of legitimate harassment against an all female eSports team was perpetuated by women, so this isn't exactly a gender issue.

I've never heard of this. Could you be more specific?

See! Gaming is misogyny!

Reading escapist comment sections used to be entertaining, now they just make me sad. Hats off to Carly Smith and Movie Bob, who write these articles already knowing what the community's response is going to be.

NuclearKangaroo:
well it was certainly tasteless

It wasn't Tasteless! Why are so many people bringing him into this discussion? He did nothing wrong.
He's also one of my favorite casters. <3

FalloutJack:
Oh, come on, Starcraft fans... You had one job, ONE JOB! 'Do not make rape comments', and you blew it!

Hang your heads in shame.

I really love that way of thinking. One person does something idiotic and gets punished for it by professional organization plus the community: BLAME ALL PEOPLE WHO ENJOY THE SAME THING AS HE DOES ANYWAY!

Gali:
Zoop

Number one, that's not what I was doing. Number two, I'm very obviously taking the piss out of it.

Moving on...

So this is different from someone receiving a suspension for unsportsmanlike behaviour in any other team based sport how?

Wait wait wait, stop. I see an article about rape and it ends up talking almost exclusively about sexism? You ARE aware men can be raped, too, right?

EDIT: And if off color comments are enough to keep women out of esports, that doesn't speak very highly of women now does it?

I mean, it was even an INVITATIONAL tournament as I recall you stating. She was only there because the TOs felt like having her. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Douchey person got disqualified for some severe unsportsman-like conduct. That's it.

JayDeth:
Wait wait wait, stop. I see an article about rape and it ends up talking almost exclusively about sexism? You ARE aware men can be raped, too, right?

Nobody wants to believe it, but then nobody wants to think about what goes on behind prison walls, say. In this case, that it was said was wrong no matter what. Trash-talking kiddies on any game should be banned. Nobody should be submitted to that kind of bile and hate.

FogHornG36:
Remember a time when competition didn't have to always be "Friendly" sometimes they could get heated and people might say stuff to get the other person on edge, makes me think of all the stuff Tyson used to say...

Did he suggest that at some point in time he might rape someone? Ah...

Yeah, that was a pretty dumb thing to say.

Given how often "Rape" is used in competitive gaming, I do have to wonder how those unfamiliar with the language handle the use of the word.

The whole pushing of "THIS IS WHY WOMEN AREN'T IN ESPORTS" is a bit over the top though.

There's no real evidence of that, and men are just as uneasy about people making rape jokes as women are, so, I can't see how the offence of one gender is somehow pushing them away more than another.

I think the trashtalk is just a lame thing to feature in an article, most people playing games against another use trashtalk, some more abrasive than others but I've heard a lot of girls say to others "I'm gonna rape you" in whatever game they're playing, even Go Fish. Or you know the thing EVERYONE says when they get killed in a shooter by a friend "Oh I'm gonna kill you for that!"
Guys and girls trash talk, it's not some gender specific thing. People do it to psych them self up or try and rattle the other player or hell to vent. It's almost reaction to have SOME form of trash talk regardless. Personally? I don't care for it, but I'm not gonna tell someone they can't say it.

It's just more P-C bullshit. The guy in his position as a professional probably deserves a suspension- though how many times has he said this prior about other players? It could just be an expected act/personality he shows in his stream and social media nonsense.

But let's be really honest here, she has NOTHING to worry about, not because of empty trashtalk:

image

Because this guy couldn't do anything to her, she'd snap him like a twig.
I'm kinda confused why this article isn't featuring an image of her and the person in question.

Honestly I think an article featuring her, a young woman is not only competitive in e-sports but is also an able, active woman. How about we just have an article featuring someone who stands out not only because of her being in the competitive scene but because she's unique! This isn't someone I expected to see when looking her up, I figured average build not, built. It's impressive, it'd be nice to feature her as a strong competitor vs a victim. Getting into the competitive scene is impressive on it's own but she seems to do a lot more than that.

Can someone please link the whole Stephen Fry picture where there's his quote about being offended. I think it'd be fitting.

I've seen many examples of people making poor decisions in my time and this is one of them.

On one hand, Yes, this guy was an idiot. Even if rape is commonly used in games to mean whatever it means besides rape, Anyone connected to the internet should've known it was a hot button to push, and shouldn't be surprised they got burned for it.

however, I also really don't like how this article seems to state that insults commonly used in online gaming are more offensive and/or sexist just because a man said it to a woman. Sure, It's unprofessional, and was really dumb to say, but sexist? Don't see it. I'm going to play slippery slope for a minute here.

Do you think if he said "I'm going to beat this woman so hard" That then we'd be talking about how "Domestic abuse is never ok?"

What about if he said "I'm gonna go harass this woman" (I don't know if "harassing" is a term in Starcraft, if not, apply it to a LoL player then) then we'd get some sort of "Just like Sarkeesian" spiel?

What I'm trying to say is, this shouldn't be "Man said thing to woman, that's bad." it should be "Person said thing to person, that's unprofessional"

I don't like how obviously biased the article is, please git gud, Escapist, I really respect and like you but that just means I will criticize you more and this does look very much like an editorial and not actual neutral news.

Rape jokes can be funny and I think this woman is overreacting (after all, has anyone banned the "don't drop the soap" jokes yet? That's what I thought, when these people say rape jokes are not okay they only mean it when it relates to females).

The last couple of sentences about the lack of women is pro gaming is just absurd. Have you thought that maybe women are less likely to be interested in pro gaming? And not because of some nebulous conspiracy or dislike, if anything, girl player would probably be worshipped in these tournaments.

gLoveofLove:

Nods Respectfully Towards You:
Let's also not forget that one time of legitimate harassment against an all female eSports team was perpetuated by women, so this isn't exactly a gender issue.

I've never heard of this. Could you be more specific?

http://www.dailydot.com/esports/reason-gaming-eswc-assault-imaginary-gaming-assault/
Allegedly, it was mainly because the other female team was pissed at the winning team since they weren't all french or something. Regardless, this is the only time I've heard of female players being in physical players and it was done by other women.

RicoADF:

With respect I get the impression from the quote that he means rape in the gaming sense "I'm going to kick their ass" rather than the sexual version. I may be wrong but I wonder if this was a case of someone not expecting to have to tip toe around phrases he would normally use on other players just because she's a girl.

Okay. I realise that. It's still dumb.

I'm of the opinion that `trash-talking` is a thing that makes us all look bad and should go away. Though I'm not sure if this counts as trash talking at all because tweeted it in general, rather than saying it to her during the match. Either way, it's stupid.

I had a guy start saying this to me once, when we were competing in a friendly way (seeing who's DPS was better in WoW).
He got half way through saying it and went kinda `Oh, no wait you're a girl that's kind of weird to say that to you`.
My response wasn't `That's right- be ashamed!`, it was `It's a dumb thing to say to anyone when you think about it`.

So in short: Women loses badly to better male player and gets him disqualified over trash talk.
Grow some balls will you.

Crimson_Dragoon:

veloper:
Fine, I'll be the one to say it.

Trash talk is okay. Rape in the context of competitive gaming means defeat by a huge margin. It's obviously not a threat.

If it were up to me, I'd allow this kind of talk, even against a woman. Freedom of speech to trump over quickly wounded egos.
The consequence of being an asshole should be that people will think and say you're an asshole and that knowledge can only benefit people. Everybody wins and everybody grows a thicker skin as an added bonus.

The only real mistake the guy made is that he should have known he was playing in a nanny environment.

I disagree. Trash talk is not ok, at least not in this environment. If you want to trash talk friends, that's one thing, but this is not a casual situation. Professionalism and sportsmanship should mean something to a professional sport, and this kind of behavior demeans the players and the sport itself. That's especially important in a sport that desperately trying to gain legitimacy outside its own community. And double-standard or not, this is a step in the right direction. Trying to argue that what this guy said is perfectly acceptable because that's "what everybody does" is not.

And free speech has nothing to do with this. The tournament is a private event. If the hosts want to deny this kind of rhetoric, they have every right to.

Sure in the context of the law it has nothing to do with freedom, but in practice it still does, because house rules may still determine what you can or cannot say.
I strongly favor letting people say their piece and NOT babysitting teens and young adults. The first leads to assertiveness while babysitting promotes dependence.

roseofbattle:
Women are less visible in competitive gaming tournaments[/a] thanks to sexism, marketing strategies overlooking them, and gender norms that treat games as a male hobby.

Hayda's comment is just one example of how the eSports community pushes women away.

What also pushes women away is this type of articles, always portraying gamers as sexist assholes.
This reminds me of that dumb "I don't care if you landed a spacecraft on a comet..." article on The Verge, where the author presented the scientific community as sexist and essentially anti-women.

You are just as responsible for pushing women away from the community as these asshole gamers are.
A female gamer will read your article and think: "Well, if the eSports community is that sexist, I don't want to be part of it".
Good job.

Phasmal:

Okay. I realise that. It's still dumb.

I'm of the opinion that `trash-talking` is a thing that makes us all look bad and should go away. Though I'm not sure if this counts as trash talking at all because tweeted it in general, rather than saying it to her during the match. Either way, it's stupid.

I had a guy start saying this to me once, when we were competing in a friendly way (seeing who's DPS was better in WoW).
He got half way through saying it and went kinda `Oh, no wait you're a girl that's kind of weird to say that to you`.
My response wasn't `That's right- be ashamed!`, it was `It's a dumb thing to say to anyone when you think about it`.

I agree it's a dumb thing to say, not something that I personally would be saying to other players. That said people do say it as jokes and banter in friendly manner and I don't believe in controlling what others say.

As I said I'm wondering if he was booted because it was a girl or because of what he said. If the former then I consider that wrong, you can't have 2 sets of rules (ok to say it to guys but not girls). If it's the latter and they were informed as to their code of conduct then yes the guy is an idiot and was correctly kicked for breaching the rules.

Basically it comes down to "I need more information" to comment and/or make an opinion.

All this news tells me is that I have a desire to see a new word arise to replace "rape" as a synonym for "defeat" in the gaming community. Let's get "thrash" to be an insult, it would be somewhat cool. "Rape" is a silly word, after all, and is almost always going to get you (rightfully) shit on.

Good on them for disqualifying him. There are few enough female professional female gamers and they don't need threats of rape, joking or not to be laid against them. I know "rape" is common nomenclature for overwhelming victory in games but it still shouldn't be because of how sadly prevalent rape is in the world today is and sexist the connotation itself is. The dude should think of better ways of trash talking without implying she should fear for her real life safety in such a direct way.

Gali:

NuclearKangaroo:
well it was certainly tasteless

It wasn't Tasteless! Why are so many people bringing him into this discussion? He did nothing wrong.
He's also one of my favorite casters. <3

FalloutJack:
Oh, come on, Starcraft fans... You had one job, ONE JOB! 'Do not make rape comments', and you blew it!

Hang your heads in shame.

I really love that way of thinking. One person does something idiotic and gets punished for it by professional organization plus the community: BLAME ALL PEOPLE WHO ENJOY THE SAME THING AS HE DOES ANYWAY!

ok im not familiar with the -esports scene or anything, but i was under the impression athletes had to be more... professional, that being said maybe im using the term athlete here very loosely

Aaaand, this is the only reason integration of women in things has ever been an issue ever. Fear of shit like this.

Anyone should be able to enter a space, but when you try to make everyone change that space to accommodate you, you're something of a social imperialist and douchebag at that point. It's a competitive sport, trash gets talked in competitive sports. The old adage "if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen" applies here. Nobody would have batted an eye if this comment was directed at a guy, comments like this have been exchanged between guys forever in e-sports with no malice, it's only now that the recipient has a vagina that anyone decides they want to make it an issue. So now you've skewed the tournament in favor of women because they can just get offended at all the comments and win the tournament by offended>ban elimination.

There needs to be spaces in the world where people can feel free to talk shit and everyone will know it's just a fucking joke and not everything to be taken so seriously. Those places are wonderful, we need places like that. If integration of women into these spaces means we're all going to be required to hold hands, forget the score, and watch care bears together , I might have to change my stance on the issues, but I really don't want to have to choose between sexism and censorship, and I really don't think it's necessary. So hold one standard, that's non-negotiable, and if it's possible for us not to abort e-sports in it's infancy by castrating it and taking away it's competitive edge, that would be nice.

I don't know if I can even say the guy is a douchebag, I was in a StarCraft club in middle school and I talked shit like this to my friends all the time. Nobody got bent out of shape about it.

What a classless moron. It actually makes me feel like a moron to call him classless, but I'm not sure how else I can describe it...just really low brow and obviously didn't think very much about making that tweet. I mean, you and your friends might laugh at that joke, but your twitter followers aren't your close friends. They're an audience.

So guy made a unprofessional comment got canned like he should nothing wrong with some things in a pick up basketball will not fly in the NBA so that professional environment makes a difference.

Now for the "reason why women don't go into competitive sports" is the most sexist thing about this more so than the "rape" comment. I mean can no one not smell or sense the benevolent sexism there that it hurts. That is why a lot of these kind of articles and tones have been rubbing me the wrong way. I mean I thought gaming was run by dirty liberals and this and other stuff sounds like sneaky Trad Con rhetoric.

With that said I am pretty as long the rules are consistent then really there is no need for an uproar.

8BitArchitect:
Framing this as "Just another way the eSports community pushes women away" is stupid editorializing. His behavior was unprofessional and caddish, but making a bigger deal out of it because it was in reference to a woman is simply another form of sexism.

^ I'm not denying what the guy said was a terrible thing to say, he's an asshole and deserved what came to him quite frankly, HOWEVER I am sick of this narrative of "This is yet another example of how E-sports push women away"

Maybe the reason women don't tend to show up in E-sports is because none of them are that interested to begin with? Too my knowledge they have tried to have an all women tournament but it didn't happen because not enough female players actually wanted to participate...

Can we stop with this obvious bias please? I get it this was a stupid and terrible thing to say and absolutely he deserved what he got but painting the entire e-sports community/event and claiming "yet another way that the e-sports community pushes women away" is an incredible generalization...

If this was gender flipped nobody would be talking about it and it CERTAINLY wouldn't have an article on the escapist...

Johnisback:
I have no objection to this guy being taken out of the tournament but I do take exception to:

joking about rape is never ok. Ever.

Because I disagree. Plus what this guy said what not a joke, it was a reference.

I agree, anything can be joked about.

I basicly NEVER comment.

so take this to heart escapist: "Hayda's comment is just one example of how the eSports community pushes women away." is just about the most fucking wrong (factual) editorial sentence i've ever read on your website.

EVER.

There are female only tournaments.
There are mixed gender tournaments (but the one male only tournaments got shit to obvlivion...gg double standards)

He apologised for a comment that was insensitive/retarded. as he should have. different genders = different social norms.

but seriously? i've NEVER heard of "women" being pushed away from e-sports. Ask fucking scarlet in her recent interview with the New Yorker. Ask Bee. Ask any other (of the very very small handfull) of high-end female gamers. out there. Ask in CS:S or CS:Go, ask in League. or Dota. You can bloody ask the one women who was "well known" in SMASH.

...there is basicly no group of people less worried about gender, then the e-sports scene. (Fucking CHESS is more segregated).

So ye. Fuck this comment.

How times change....

In 1975 Muhammad Ali repeatedly called Joe Frazier a 'gorilla' in TV interviews; "It will be a Killa and a Thrilla and a Chilla when I get The Gorilla in Manila"

Denamic:

roseofbattle:
Hayda's comment is just one example of how the eSports community pushes women away.

No. If you had said that things like this is one of the reasons women feel pushed away from the e-sports community, you would be right as that is a factual statement. By saying that the e-sports community pushes away women, you've just called me and millions of others who had nothing to do with this sexist assholes. Blanket statements like that has to be kept out of any article ever, because they are literally always wrong when referring to a large group of people.

Not really. When talking about a community, it's treated as a single entity, not a collection of smaller, single entities. For instance, when saying Walmart maximizes its profits by encouraging employees to sign up for welfare benefits, that is true even though the greeter at the front door has no part of that policy-making process. Walmart is composed of its employees, but it is not its employees. The eSports community is composed of gamers, but it is not all gamers.

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