Game of Thrones Showrunners Admit Spoilers Incoming

Game of Thrones Showrunners Admit Spoilers Incoming

Are you really that surprised?

It's a day we all knew was coming, but had hoped to avoid. D.B. Weiss and David Benioff, Game of Thrones showrunners, finally admitted to the fact that the upcoming seasons of the HBO television series will be spoiling aspects of the upcoming George R.R. Martin books.

At the Oxford Union this past weekend, Benioff stated that the television series would

"Eventually, basically, meet up at pretty much the same place where George is going. There might be a few deviations along the route, but we're heading towards the same destination. I kind of wish there were some things we didn't have to spoil (for the books), but we're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. The show must go on...and that's what we're going to do."

The TV adaption is slated to end several years before G.R.R.M's final volume is released, so it's not surprising that spoilers are incoming, but I believe a lot of us were hoping that this wasn't an inevitable truth. But, it turns out that all hope might not be lost after all. According to Benioff, there is a positive side to all this.

"I think the the thing that's kind of fun for George is the idea that he can still have surprises for people. Even once they've watched the show through to the conclusion, there are certain things that will happen in the books that are different from the show. I think people who love the show and want to know more about...the different characters who might not have made the cut for the show will be able to turn to the books."

Watch the full interview here (quotes come in around the 34:00 marker).

What are your thoughts? Is it all darkness or could there be some light at the end of this tunnel?

Source: io9, via Vanity Fair

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So pretty much as expected, we get Scenario A(books) and B(TV). Best way it could turn out.

PBMcNair:
So pretty much as expected, we get Scenario A(books) and B(TV). Best way it could turn out.

Seems to me like plot threads are going to be left hanging by the TV series to be picked up by the books later.

Assuming George doesnt have a change of mind, that is.

Just look at as from now on there are 2 different universes. The book one and the TV show one. Similar but will probably have different ending. Like what HBO did with True Blood.

At this stage it's starting to look like GRRM will never finish the books, I'm not talking about his age or his health, I just think he's lost interest. The next book may see the light of day but I suspect the last book never will.

Currently at book 3.
And no, I don't mind...

Those damn books are NEVER going to come out anyway at G.R.R.'s infamous glacial pace anyway!

Dandres:
Just look at as from now on there are 2 different universes. The book one and the TV show one. Similar but will probably have different ending. Like what HBO did with True Blood.

I doubt it would be a tremendously different ending. But there should be surprises along the way.

Anyways, I'm not sure that source material can be "spoiling" anything. Books don't spoil movies and movies don't spoil books because they're all the same story being told by the official source.

Whether it's the book or the movie is irrelevant. A person may be partial to one or the other but that doesn't make the preferred format more or less legitimate than the other.

Lightknight:

Dandres:
Just look at as from now on there are 2 different universes. The book one and the TV show one. Similar but will probably have different ending. Like what HBO did with True Blood.

I doubt it would be a tremendously different ending. But there should be surprises along the way.

GRRM already confirmed recently that people would die in the show who GRRM doesn't plan on killing off. Also a significant number of really important characters haven't been cast to my knowledge. To name just a few:

Wyman Manderly
Arianne Martell
Quentyn Martell
Victarion Greyjoy
Euron "Crows-Eye" Greyjoy
Aeron "Damphair" Greyjoy
The Kindly Man
Griff
Young Griff
Penny
Ser Aerys Oakheart
Gerold "Darkstar" Dayne

Bran, Hodor, and Meera won't even be in Season 5 at all.

They seem to be making a lot of changes to the storyline this season, so who knows where it's going to be heading this season...

Various book and show spoilers ahead...

There are a lot of plot threads in the books that haven't been completely resolved yet, but we've had hints and teases about how they will resolve in the TV show.


With elements like this being put in place, one can already imagine how current events in the books might resolve. So now that we are getting closer to the current books, I think we'll start seeing some definite answers.

Also, the books have a habit of saying "so and so is dead", and then revealing a book later that the character is alive and well. Arya, Bran, Davos, and Tyrion all had stretches in the books where we were told so, yet in the TV show these character's stories continue uninterrupted.

I think as early as THIS season, we might see characters survive in the show who are presumed dead in the most recent books.

Game of Thrones

-People die. Tits.

I watched the whole interview, there was some pretty interesting stuff.

How can you spoil something that doesn't exist?

gigastar:
Seems to me like plot threads are going to be left hanging by the TV series to be picked up by the books later.

I don't think that will be the case. The two are quite distinct and don't interact with each other, crossover or otherwise depend on each other. I believe GRRM in a panel, when asked about a character who was different in the show than the books, answered that they were different versions. The show is telling the same story, with the same characters as the books but there are many differences between them.

No one but the show runners will know how it will end, but I suspect the show will follow GRRM's story through to the end, with the same manor of differences we've come to expect. It may spoil the end of Book 7 for readers, but I guess that's the price they pay for GoT becoming one of the most successful TV shows of all time. Like the OP quotes, "The show must go on". I'd be interested to know, were any numbers even estimable, how many readers and viewers the books and show have, respectively. I don't think there's anything wrong if the show wraps first with GRRM's intended ending. So the readers don't get to read it first, the story is still concluded.

Ugh.

I don't think I've ever seen a derivative work taint the original as much as Game of Thrones taints A Song of Ice and Fire.

At least a movie like World War Z, which basically takes it's source material and uses it to wipe it's ass, doesn't actually take up the original creators time and skew the original work like this is doing.

George is rather famous for changing his mind during the writing process, but now that the TV show is basically locking him into one certain conclusion long before the books are actually finished, how can we be assured that the books are the best they could have been?

Now to mention how much the very idea that the show and the books will end the same way spoils just by itself.

There's SHITTONS of plot threads that are entirely cut out of the show, and with this announcement we have basically been assured that none of them can significantly play into the conclusion.

In related news, the GoT books will no longer spoil the TV show. 8)

As much as I loved reading ASoIAF, I would rather GRRM just got on with it already. The books do seem rather bloated and overly concerned with explaining every tiny detail (seriously, how much of the genealogy is actually relevant, and how much do you actually remember after turning the page?).

I don't so much mind reading a bloated book, even if I am aware that it would probably be better if it were leaner. Waiting for someone to write a bloated book while the show is hurtling towards us, however ...

I laughed hysterically when I got to the end of A Feast for Crows and read the messages from GRRM, written in June 2005, that promised A Dance with Dragons "next year".
"Next Year" turned into six years, which is a less funny joke when you consider that six years after 2011 is 2017. That's ignoring the fact that A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons were written concurrently, and the fact that neither of them are as large as The Winds of Winter is apparently going to be.
We may be in for a looooong wait, which is a pity, since I really wanted to read the books before having the story spoiled for me in its inferior form.

To be honest, there's no way I can brave the ridiculously long period between GoT's conclusion and the final books being released without running into any spoilers (season 5 isn't even released yet, and it still managed to spoil portions of A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons just with the news surrounding it). It seems reading the books unspoiled is not an option, so I'm not sure I'll even bother with them. I read the books after watching the first 4 seasons, and as much as I enjoyed the writing, the difference between GoT and ASoIAF were only just enough to make it not feel like a chore that had to be done before I could continue into unspoiled territory.

This upsets me to no end. They went brilliantly through 4 seasons of 3 books with only minor deviations. Now when the one of the major pillars of the books is being thrown out the window(the transition from the mundane to the supernatural world). They have one and half more seasons of material to work with, then they could have put the show on hiatus for a season or even a filler season(there is so much back story on Song of Ice and Fire to fill three seasons) Now just left is to piss off fans. Way to go D.B. Weiss and David Benioff.

At the end of the day the story was already kind of "spoiled", it might have even been here on The Escapist that I read reports that George mentioned years ago that the whole point of "A Song Of Ice And Fire" is to show what would be the back story to a heroic fantasy story as if it's happening "now" as opposed to being something you'd see simply being referenced, need to dig through companion volumes to uncover (if popular enough), or occasionally appearing in flash backs. Your basically looking at a story with lots of bad people doing bad things to each other as the sparks of hope seem to be snuffed out one by one. This is pretty much the world of a heroic fantasy series where the heroes haven't appeared or been revealed yet (having been unnoticed), as one of the key heroic fantasy tropes is when the good guys come out of your basic nowhere and start winning the no-win scenarios and surprise everyone, even if it turns out there are some good reasons for why they appear and how they can do some of the things they wind up doing. Those seeds are sort of being planted as the story is told. If I remember the old reveal the whole idea when he started it was to pretty much bring the series to an "and then everyone died and everything sucked forever more" ending before writing the equivalent of an epilogue where the fantasy equivalent of Superman comes out of nowhere and saves everything, based loosely on little bits that had been dropped here and there, the very point being that it's sudden and comparatively cheap compared to the more grim and realistic tone of the series, and exactly how heroic fantasy would look to anyone who isn't one of the protagonists or telling the story where it's not entirely focused on them, especially if their story would have been literally nobody knowing they were there until they acted. In many fantasy stories a lot of time the "Chosen One" doesn't show up and start screaming "*I HAVE THE POWER*" until the bad guy is about to win, and even if more story appears from there with the bad guys trying unsuccessfully to stop him. If you were say a classic cheezy villain like say "Mumm Ra" in the old "Thundercats" cartoon, ridiculously ancient, unquestionably all powerful, imagine what an ass pull it would be for Lion-O and company to suddenly show up and start ruining your day right when your starting your groove. I mean several thousand years of an accepted, balanced, pecking order and then suddenly space kitties with bad 80s hair and magic weapons land on your doorstep and just happen to have the one thing you can't ever seem to deal with. George didn't use those analogies, that's just my analogy for what he supposedly said his story is supposed to do.... it's sort of a subversion, criticism, and oddly enough fan worship of that trope all at the same time.

Originally I'd hoped that having the HBO series would light a fire under George's ass and reduce the chance of us getting another Jordan situation on our hands, but he's been remarkably resistant to any sort of pressure in that direction, sadly.

It's kinda depressing really; working in a bookstore for a long time, I got to see a lot of people get frustrated with the series and simply stop reading it, particularly after the collective disaster that was Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons.

I'm one of the book reader.

So....... fuck.

I've always been an avid reader. I do generally like books more than their TV or Movie counterparts. But really, I can't see the conflict here for anyone but the selfish or snobbish. People who can't enjoy something if someone else got to enjoy it first and people who've enjoyed mocking the TV watchers from their false sense of superiority.

This should not detract from anyone's enjoyment. Apparently people are going to die that won't in the book and vice versa. There's enough meat on the bones for everyone and the same guy is at the helm of both retellings of the story in his head.

Raesvelg:
Originally I'd hoped that having the HBO series would light a fire under George's ass and reduce the chance of us getting another Jordan situation on our hands, but he's been remarkably resistant to any sort of pressure in that direction, sadly.

Well, it could have also resulted in a rushed story which usually isn't a good thing.

I'd say that as long as both finish and are done properly then that's more than most stories get.

Baldr:
This upsets me to no end. They went brilliantly through 4 seasons of 3 books with only minor deviations. Now when the one of the major pillars of the books is being thrown out the window(the transition from the mundane to the supernatural world). They have one and half more seasons of material to work with, then they could have put the show on hiatus for a season or even a filler season(there is so much back story on Song of Ice and Fire to fill three seasons) Now just left is to piss off fans. Way to go D.B. Weiss and David Benioff.

basically this. why the fuck are they talking about spoiling future books. they still got two books already released to put on the show. you still got 4 seasons to go minimum till you start going to unreleased territory.

I blame GRRM. I love his writing and have thoroughly enjoyed the first five books, but the plot has gotten so bloated that the pace of the story slowed to a crawl by the end of the fifth. Part of the appeal of ASOIAF is the sprawling story and multiple points of view, but Martin should have reigned it in in favor of moving the story forward. I get that good writing takes time and all, but the fact that Martin's overbloated manuscript in 2005 partially went into Feast and then took SIX MORE YEARS to end up as Dance is nearly inexcusable.

If we assume that the show wasn't intended to overtake the books initially, and wouldn't have happened without Martin signing off on it, that tells me that Martin has an unrealistic view of his own writing process and doesn't have a good grasp of how to get to the ending of his own story. By contrast, J.K. Rowling slowed down her writing of the Harry Potter series towards the end, but was still years ahead of the film adaptations.

Sgt Pepper:
At this stage it's starting to look like GRRM will never finish the books, I'm not talking about his age or his health, I just think he's lost interest. The next book may see the light of day but I suspect the last book never will.

He lost interest after the second or third book.

That and he loves hating his fans of this series.

Eh, if he lost interest that early, he could have greatly cut back on the complexity of the series. Greyjoy and Martell drama, while great at times, could easily have been minimized or cut entirely in favor of keeping the action on the Lannisters, Starks, Baratheons, the Wall, and Dany. That's still plenty of interwoven sotrylines.

When I was reading the books, I expected the end of Storm of Swords to be the point of the books with the most storylines going at once, and with a few crucial deaths, the stories would begin to converge and simplify. Instead, GRRM added a bunch of new characters: some good, some bad, but all of lesser importance than the ones we've been following since the beginning.

It may be a bit antagonistic, but this GREAT!

After getting pretty much all of GoT - nebst other things - spoiled by american meme-generators and trend-#, they get to experience BIIJ, FOR ONCE!
Join me, bretheren and womenfolk, in the mild annoyance.

Polite-Version:
Sometimes, life 's a bitch.

 

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