Female Link May Appear In Hyrule Warriors For 3DS - Rumor

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altnameJag:
(Why are warriors games system sellers for me? It makes no sense.)

At least they're more appropriate for 3DS as "play a round" games. If it makes you feel better, Zelda and Mario games help justify a 3DS purchase. I gladly beat Mario 3D and New Mario 2 in a month each and am about to beat Majora's Mask 3D a third time.

At first i thought they were turning link himself into a female, which could work i guess if a different sperm won the race in that timeline, but still seems a bit strange. Anyway, other than the name (linkle? really?) it should work out.

Hero of Lime:

Hairless Mammoth:
I can see this happening since HW isn't really canon AFAIK. (You can bet though, someone figured out a few good spots in the time line trident to fit it.)

Actually, HW could easily take place sometime after Twilight Princess. Looking at the games featured, it's Skyward Sword, Ocarina of Time, and Twilight Princes, which all happen on the same timeline, or time trident as you put it. Had Wind Waker or Link to the Past been featured, then it be pretty hard to justify. Which I guess just happened since Tetra and the King are in it now.

Then again, this is a spin off that just throws all sense of continuity out the window. Trying to find a place to put it is beyond silly. :P

Probably worth mentioning here that Wind Waker was featured in the leaked 3DS trailer...

image

"Honestly, link was just two less testicles away from being a girl anyway. Soft features, long hair, hung out with faeries, even had the skirt thing going."

You REALLY have no understanding of what Japanese culture is like, do you? It's what they like, mostly due to them having different views on what masculinity is. Link is on the LOW end of the androgyny scale; he's outright butch compared to a lot of Japanese characters. And that's before we get into his "skirt" just being a traditional tunic (though it was odd how he didn't wear leggings until OoT; guess he felt like going Roman-style).

May I ask how you define "pandering," BiH-Kira? I ask because a lot of people seem to think it means "giving something to people who aren't me," and I think given that climate, it's best to be sure what exactly people are being accused of.

Because what exactly does it do other than slap a pair of boobs on a character that is silent with minimal personality? It's like trying to say that being able to choose your gender or race in a game like Fallout or Knights of the Old Republic makes it more diverse when your character is effectively a blank slate whose personality, race, and gender is really just window dressing. That's not diversity, it's just pandering to people who write odd genderswap fanfiction.

Aiddon:

Because what exactly does it do other than slap a pair of boobs on a character that is silent with minimal personality? It's like trying to say that being able to choose your gender or race in a game like Fallout or Knights of the Old Republic makes it more diverse when your character is effectively a blank slate whose personality, race, and gender is really just window dressing. That's not diversity, it's just pandering to people who write odd genderswap fanfiction.

Okay. So, if gender doesn't matter, why not slap a pair of boobs on more characters who're effectively blank slates whose personality, race, and gender are really just window dressing?

If it doesn't matter, why the testicle/boob disparity?

Redryhno:

Happyninja42:
Meh, I'd like to actually see a Legend of ZELDA game be about Zelda. I don't really care if they gender swap Link, but give the character who's name is the actual title of the franchise, her own story/game. Where she get's to go do some interesting stuff, not as a side character in Link's story, but her own story. I mean come on, she's one of the bearer's a Triforce, she's hardly a placeholder in their reality.

Except she's alot more than a placeholder most of the time...Link goes nowhere without her, he doesn't beat Ganon without her, he has literally no idea what's going on outside of what he sees, and has no comprehension of it because he's most often a country nobody for all intents and purposes.

Zelda holds countries together, leads her people/crew/etc. to safety while fighting a/the big bad who vastly overpowers her and Link when they're alone. She holds the Triforce of Wisdom and understands the world and has the love and admiration of anyone she has authority over, and even Ganon respects her enough with his Power to not do much more than kidnap her.

Sure, you can say she's a side character in Link's story, but so is nearly everyone else, even Ganon's honestly just a side character with a nebulous existence most of the time. The real characters in Link's story are the enemies he encounters, the puzzles he solves, and the places he explores. Because it's HIS story, the LoZ title is about Link yes, but he's just the vehicle, Zelda's the driver of prophecy.

You contradicted yourself in the last paragraph. You went on and on about it being Link's story, and how it's HIS story, but then you say he's just the vehicle for Zelda's prophecy. That is contradictory. Either the story is about Zelda and we're not seeing it. (Because we're always following Link), or it's not about Zelda at all, and it's instead about Link.

You say Zelda does all these amazing things, like leading countries, leading people to safety, etc, and yet we don't actually play that. That is happening off camera, why? Because the game is constantly focused on Link. She is still very much a bit of window dressing in a franchise of her name. I personally don't care about Link anymore. I find him fairly boring, it's the same story every time. Farmer kid, gets called to power, gets a sword, kills Big Bad, Saves Princess. *yawn* I'd rather see something new. Like maybe something from Zelda's perspective. You say the game is all about the puzzles and stuff that Link encounters? Then why not have the person who carries the Triforce of Wisdom, have a game that involves solving puzzles? I mean she's supposed to be Wise right? She's the leader of a country, why not have a Civilization style game where you play as Zelda, and you have to actually maintain the kingdom, because Link running around killing things doesn't keep food on the table for her subjects.

Or hell, just call the game series The Adventures(or Legend) of Link, and I wouldn't give a shit. At least then the title would be honest. Because she has no agency in the story at all. She's a set piece, just like all the other Not-Link characters.

Aiddon:

You REALLY have no understanding of what Japanese culture is like, do you? It's what they like, mostly due to them having different views on what masculinity is. Link is on the LOW end of the androgyny scale; he's outright butch compared to a lot of Japanese characters.

What does the Japanese have to do with it? Are you Japanese? They make the game, but to everyone else, it'd hardly be a change. The japanese are so weird anyway that if kid link turned into a squid, that would have precedent by now.

Aiddon:

I:
May I ask how you define "pandering," BiH-Kira? I ask because a lot of people seem to think it means "giving something to people who aren't me," and I think given that climate, it's best to be sure what exactly people are being accused of.

Because what exactly does it do other than slap a pair of boobs on a character that is silent with minimal personality? It's like trying to say that being able to choose your gender or race in a game like Fallout or Knights of the Old Republic makes it more diverse when your character is effectively a blank slate whose personality, race, and gender is really just window dressing. That's not diversity, it's just pandering to people who write odd genderswap fanfiction.

None of that really answers the question I asked, but I'll be happy to pose it to you so you can answer it: How do you define the word "pandering," Aiddon?

altnameJag:

Aiddon:

Because what exactly does it do other than slap a pair of boobs on a character that is silent with minimal personality? It's like trying to say that being able to choose your gender or race in a game like Fallout or Knights of the Old Republic makes it more diverse when your character is effectively a blank slate whose personality, race, and gender is really just window dressing. That's not diversity, it's just pandering to people who write odd genderswap fanfiction.

Okay. So, if gender doesn't matter, why not slap a pair of boobs on more characters who're effectively blank slates whose personality, race, and gender are really just window dressing?

If it doesn't matter, why the testicle/boob disparity?

Maybe, just maybe, because Link's become ingrained in the public conscience as being a guy? Or Zelda, as the uninformed say.

Why not just make a new character with boobs or focus on the already actually good females in the series that have potential as leading a game in the universe? I mean, I'd want some actual effort put into it(and I'd expect you would want so as well), not just a genderswap because it literally does nothing but add the slightest bit more work, yes, but it's still extra work with no differences beyond the number of polygons and text boxes needing to be made larger to accommodate the extra letters.

Happyninja42:

Redryhno:

Happyninja42:
Meh, I'd like to actually see a Legend of ZELDA game be about Zelda. I don't really care if they gender swap Link, but give the character who's name is the actual title of the franchise, her own story/game. Where she get's to go do some interesting stuff, not as a side character in Link's story, but her own story. I mean come on, she's one of the bearer's a Triforce, she's hardly a placeholder in their reality.

Except she's alot more than a placeholder most of the time...Link goes nowhere without her, he doesn't beat Ganon without her, he has literally no idea what's going on outside of what he sees, and has no comprehension of it because he's most often a country nobody for all intents and purposes.

Zelda holds countries together, leads her people/crew/etc. to safety while fighting a/the big bad who vastly overpowers her and Link when they're alone. She holds the Triforce of Wisdom and understands the world and has the love and admiration of anyone she has authority over, and even Ganon respects her enough with his Power to not do much more than kidnap her.

Sure, you can say she's a side character in Link's story, but so is nearly everyone else, even Ganon's honestly just a side character with a nebulous existence most of the time. The real characters in Link's story are the enemies he encounters, the puzzles he solves, and the places he explores. Because it's HIS story, the LoZ title is about Link yes, but he's just the vehicle, Zelda's the driver of prophecy.

You contradicted yourself in the last paragraph. You went on and on about it being Link's story, and how it's HIS story, but then you say he's just the vehicle for Zelda's prophecy. That is contradictory. Either the story is about Zelda and we're not seeing it. (Because we're always following Link), or it's not about Zelda at all, and it's instead about Link.

You say Zelda does all these amazing things, like leading countries, leading people to safety, etc, and yet we don't actually play that. That is happening off camera, why? Because the game is constantly focused on Link. She is still very much a bit of window dressing in a franchise of her name. I personally don't care about Link anymore. I find him fairly boring, it's the same story every time. Farmer kid, gets called to power, gets a sword, kills Big Bad, Saves Princess. *yawn* I'd rather see something new. Like maybe something from Zelda's perspective. You say the game is all about the puzzles and stuff that Link encounters? Then why not have the person who carries the Triforce of Wisdom, have a game that involves solving puzzles? I mean she's supposed to be Wise right? She's the leader of a country, why not have a Civilization style game where you play as Zelda, and you have to actually maintain the kingdom, because Link running around killing things doesn't keep food on the table for her subjects.

Or hell, just call the game series The Adventures(or Legend) of Link, and I wouldn't give a shit. At least then the title would be honest. Because she has no agency in the story at all. She's a set piece, just like all the other Not-Link characters.

If I remember right, there's some stuff lost in translation(like with alot of Japanese titles). Wisdom is more than just "wisdom", and the Goddess of Wisdom created the laws of the universe LoZ takes place in, just as Courage also means more, I think something along the lines of determination and stubbornness(canon-wise I think, Link gets through puzzles by trial and loads of error, gameplay he's just a savant). In essence, it's not so much a "Good" versus "Evil" matchup in terms of the Triforce, it's a balance of Power(which is in itself a neutral force), Good, and Law.

I mean, it's speculated that the three Goddesses are worshipped as different beings as well. Din being the Gerudo's Sand and Fire god, Farore is considered the Goddess of Life and Wind, Naryu, the Goddess of Wisdom, Time, and Love depending on where you are. There's alot of speculation that the Triforce is a huge amount more than just Power, Wisdom, Courage, those are just the simplest ideas you can get across that encompass the majority of their spheres of influence.

And I agree, I'd like there to be some kind of Zelda governing game. Problem is how do you make something like that without it just being a reskin of Civ?

As for you saying I'm contradicting myself, I'm going to point out a certain book series:

It's much the same here, it's a game that focuses on Link, but Zelda is the one with all the power between the two of them. Yes, the title is misleading, but in some cases you can chalk it up to Zelda being at the culmination of most of the fights between Ganon and random farmboy and people wanting to make it more grand than Ganon(a once in a generation occurrence as being born male to the Gerudo who holds the Triforce of Power through taking it for himself/given it as the case may be) vs Link(a random farmboy born with the Triforce of Courage who is normally only in the wrong region).

But yes, you could say she's just a set-piece, I choose to think of her and the Not-Links simply laying the groundwork for Link to do his big gorramed hero bit so that they can also continue to lay the next piece of groundwork.

Edit: And something else I thought of, as I said, the Goddess of Time could be Naryu, also known as being associated with the Triforce of Wisdom. And Link's official title is the Hero of Time.

JimB:

Aiddon:

I:
May I ask how you define "pandering," BiH-Kira? I ask because a lot of people seem to think it means "giving something to people who aren't me," and I think given that climate, it's best to be sure what exactly people are being accused of.

Because what exactly does it do other than slap a pair of boobs on a character that is silent with minimal personality? It's like trying to say that being able to choose your gender or race in a game like Fallout or Knights of the Old Republic makes it more diverse when your character is effectively a blank slate whose personality, race, and gender is really just window dressing. That's not diversity, it's just pandering to people who write odd genderswap fanfiction.

None of that really answers the question I asked, but I'll be happy to pose it to you so you can answer it: How do you define the word "pandering," Aiddon?

How about instead of you derailing the conversation with a discussion of what the definition of a word is, you instead try addressing Aiddon's actual arguments with a legitimate argument of your own?

Mario_Sonic_Megaman:
How about instead of you derailing the conversation with a discussion of what the definition of a word is, you instead try addressing Aiddon's actual arguments with a legitimate argument of your own?

I think you either did not read my original post or else are missing the point, Mario_Sonic_Megaman. I own a dictionary, so I do not need to ask what the word's definition is; and that is why I did not ask that. I asked Aiddon how he defines the word, because I cannot tell what phenomenon he is attempting to describe beyond "a bad thing I dislike for unclear reasons." I am not trying to score points here by nitpicking words, but trying to achieve clarity and understanding by asking him to explain exactly what he is complaining against.

As to his argument, I do not feel a need to rebut it. No one has said anything about diversity, so I don't know why he brought it up, let alone refuted it; and he has chosen such an enormous burden of proof for himself by claiming the move is intended to please fanfic writers that I don't intend to take such a claim as anything other than angry hyperbole until and unless he backs it up with some evidence.

I wonder why no one is answering my questions, and instead each of my posts thus far has been tackled by someone else to use as a springboard for a largely unrelated point. It makes me wonder who will say what in response to this one.

JimB:
As to his argument, I do not feel a need to rebut it.

So what's the point of you trying to misdirect the conversation with talk of definitions, then? Were you trying to pester him? Waste everybody's time in a pointless endeavor, including your own? If you didn't wish to debate him or rebut him whatsoever, then I do wonder what your underlying motive must be.

@Aiddon: I think you have a point in that a female Link would still be the same boring, personality-devoid character he's always been, just with a gender swap. The only reason why people would celebrate her being a female is the mere sake that she's a female, despite being the world's biggest dullard of a female character.

Girl Link? How'll you tell the difference.. I mean honestly He's always kinda a been a little bishie. I mean if he had longer hair he'd give sephiroth a run for his money

Oh boy, this is just waiting to go nuclear. All I want to know is why.

Why does this need to be a thing? Is there any reason besides, "it's different and Nintendo is the devil for following a formula, so they must change"? Everyone keeps asking why not, but I want to know why. Otherwise, this just comes across to me as everyone too afraid to say otherwise lest they be branded sexist.

SixWingedAsura:
Oh boy, this is just waiting to go nuclear. All I want to know is why.

Why does this need to be a thing? Is there any reason besides, "it's different and Nintendo is the devil for following a formula, so they must change"? Everyone keeps asking why not, but I want to know why. Otherwise, this just comes across to me as everyone too afraid to say otherwise lest they be branded sexist.

Lots of reasons, I imagine.
Positive public response because there was some requests to have a female link before, or a game where Zelda is the lead.
Koei is a company that isn't shy at all about creating a variety of women for their games, and making them more than NPCs. If a character exists, or could exist, they're going to put them in a warriors game, give them a fighting style, and make them a damned warrior! Doesn't matter how minor they are, or loosely attached sometimes. They're -awesome- like that.
Lots of reasons. Probably impossible to attribute it to just one.

Honestly, it's mostly a "thing" because all three sides make a fuss over it. The people for it because it's just so frikking rare that a female lead is prominent in her own game, the people against it because for the large part they're assholes in some way shape or form (Not all are assholes, but a lot are) that want to keep women out of gaming for some reason, and the

Honestly, my take on it all is when games aren't majorly straight white guys getting all the women, and barely deviating from a certain personality, this will be less and less news.

Mario_Sonic_Megaman:

JimB:
As to his argument, I do not feel a need to rebut it.

So what's the point of you trying to misdirect the conversation with talk of definitions, then? Were you trying to pester him? Waste everybody's time in a pointless endeavor, including your own? If you didn't wish to debate him or rebut him whatsoever, then I do wonder what your underlying motive must be.

I already answered these questions, or rather, this one question you repeatedly asked. It is in the part of the post you did not bother to quote or, I suspect, read. You can find it by clicking my name in the quote box, if you're genuinely curious. The link will take you right to my post.

I understand that you are angry with me for disagreeing with your stance, Mario_Sonic_Megaman, but you've demonstrated what is either a pretty egregious inability to read my posts or else a pretty egregious unwillingness to read my posts, which makes me question whether you have anything to say to me in good faith or if you're just here to yell at me.

Rebel_Raven:

SixWingedAsura:
Oh boy, this is just waiting to go nuclear. All I want to know is why.

Why does this need to be a thing? Is there any reason besides, "it's different and Nintendo is the devil for following a formula, so they must change"? Everyone keeps asking why not, but I want to know why. Otherwise, this just comes across to me as everyone too afraid to say otherwise lest they be branded sexist.

Lots of reasons, I imagine.
Positive public response because there was some requests to have a female link before, or a game where Zelda is the lead.
Koei is a company that isn't shy at all about creating a variety of women for their games, and making them more than NPCs. If a character exists, or could exist, they're going to put them in a warriors game, give them a fighting style, and make them a damned warrior! Doesn't matter how minor they are, or loosely attached sometimes. They're -awesome- like that.
Lots of reasons. Probably impossible to attribute it to just one.

Honestly, it's mostly a "thing" because all three sides make a fuss over it. The people for it because it's just so frikking rare that a female lead is prominent in her own game, the people against it because for the large part they're assholes in some way shape or form (Not all are assholes, but a lot are) that want to keep women out of gaming for some reason, and the

Honestly, my take on it all is when games aren't majorly straight white guys getting all the women, and barely deviating from a certain personality, this will be less and less news.

See, I have an issue with that. I hate that there's only three camps. So you're saying anyone against this is automatically an asshole? I think that's just as close minded as you're insinuating others to be. I'm against not because I don't want to see a female protagonist, but because I see no reason to genderswap Link. If they want to have a Zelda franchise that has a female protagonist, why not use Zelda? Or Malon? Or Saria? Or Impa? Or any of the other Zelda females we don't know much about, but most of us would like to know more about things from their perspective?

Just because someone doesn't want 'Linkle' doesn't mean that they're automatically an asshole.

SixWingedAsura:

Rebel_Raven:

SixWingedAsura:
Oh boy, this is just waiting to go nuclear. All I want to know is why.

Why does this need to be a thing? Is there any reason besides, "it's different and Nintendo is the devil for following a formula, so they must change"? Everyone keeps asking why not, but I want to know why. Otherwise, this just comes across to me as everyone too afraid to say otherwise lest they be branded sexist.

Lots of reasons, I imagine.
Positive public response because there was some requests to have a female link before, or a game where Zelda is the lead.
Koei is a company that isn't shy at all about creating a variety of women for their games, and making them more than NPCs. If a character exists, or could exist, they're going to put them in a warriors game, give them a fighting style, and make them a damned warrior! Doesn't matter how minor they are, or loosely attached sometimes. They're -awesome- like that.
Lots of reasons. Probably impossible to attribute it to just one.

Honestly, it's mostly a "thing" because all three sides make a fuss over it. The people for it because it's just so frikking rare that a female lead is prominent in her own game, the people against it because for the large part they're assholes in some way shape or form (Not all are assholes, but a lot are) that want to keep women out of gaming for some reason, and the

Honestly, my take on it all is when games aren't majorly straight white guys getting all the women, and barely deviating from a certain personality, this will be less and less news.

See, I have an issue with that. I hate that there's only three camps. So you're saying anyone against this is automatically an asshole? I think that's just as close minded as you're insinuating others to be. I'm against not because I don't want to see a female protagonist, but because I see no reason to genderswap Link. If they want to have a Zelda franchise that has a female protagonist, why not use Zelda? Or Malon? Or Saria? Or Impa? Or any of the other Zelda females we don't know much about, but most of us would like to know more about things from their perspective?

Just because someone doesn't want 'Linkle' doesn't mean that they're automatically an asshole.

Would be nice if you read what I posted. Not all are assholes. Just a lot of them.
In the end, what ever reason you dont want it, you're basically standing in the way of it, though. Not saying you're an asshole, just saying look at it from the perspectives of others.

If there's no reason to swap, why's there a reason not to swap? It's not like Link is the same Link in every game, rather Link gets reborn over and over again, and not always to save Zelda. Heck, Zelda isn't in every Legend of Zelda game.
But still, I wanna know, why not gender swap link? Beyond the desire to see more lore around an already female character? I mean a game designed around a character that's already a woman has nothing to do with a gender swapped link, or not. It doesn't have to be either or, here.

I'm not against an originally female character getting the lead, but until it happens, people aren't going to be happy, really.

SixWingedAsura:

Rebel_Raven:

SixWingedAsura:
Oh boy, this is just waiting to go nuclear. All I want to know is why.

Why does this need to be a thing? Is there any reason besides, "it's different and Nintendo is the devil for following a formula, so they must change"? Everyone keeps asking why not, but I want to know why. Otherwise, this just comes across to me as everyone too afraid to say otherwise lest they be branded sexist.

Lots of reasons, I imagine.
Positive public response because there was some requests to have a female link before, or a game where Zelda is the lead.
Koei is a company that isn't shy at all about creating a variety of women for their games, and making them more than NPCs. If a character exists, or could exist, they're going to put them in a warriors game, give them a fighting style, and make them a damned warrior! Doesn't matter how minor they are, or loosely attached sometimes. They're -awesome- like that.
Lots of reasons. Probably impossible to attribute it to just one.

Honestly, it's mostly a "thing" because all three sides make a fuss over it. The people for it because it's just so frikking rare that a female lead is prominent in her own game, the people against it because for the large part they're assholes in some way shape or form (Not all are assholes, but a lot are) that want to keep women out of gaming for some reason, and the

Honestly, my take on it all is when games aren't majorly straight white guys getting all the women, and barely deviating from a certain personality, this will be less and less news.

See, I have an issue with that. I hate that there's only three camps. So you're saying anyone against this is automatically an asshole?

No, she is not. She explicitly said the opposite of that in her post. If you don't believe me, do a Ctrl + F search for the phrase "not all are assholes." I have left her quote in place to make it a bit easier on you.

SixWingedAsura:
I'm against not because I don't want to see a female protagonist, but because I see no reason to genderswap Link.

Some people want to play a female Link. Maybe they like the variety, or want to stare at Link's tits, or maybe they feel more comfortable identifying with a female avatar on the screen. I suspect this is another post people will take as an attack, and I apologize if it comes off that way, but I genuinely don't understand how the reasons are so hard to see. Or are you saying "I see no reason" in the sense that you don't think there are any good reasons?

JimB:
Some people want to play a female Link. Maybe they like the variety, or want to stare at Link's tits, or maybe they feel more comfortable identifying with a female avatar on the screen. I suspect this is another post people will take as an attack, and I apologize if it comes off that way, but I genuinely don't understand how the reasons are so hard to see. Or are you saying "I see no reason" in the sense that you don't think there are any good reasons?

In all honesty, I believe it is that. That probably sounds bad, but that's honestly my thoughts. To me, I don't see the reason of hijacking an already established character when there are plenty of other female characters to use that have been woefully under utilized. If this was a news article about the new Zelda game literally featuring Zelda as the protagonist, you'd hear no complaints from me. I don't believe the point needs to be proven why not; If you want to change something that's been established for years, I think you need to first ask why.

SixWingedAsura:

JimB:
Some people want to play a female Link. Maybe they like the variety, or want to stare at Link's tits, or maybe they feel more comfortable identifying with a female avatar on the screen. I suspect this is another post people will take as an attack, and I apologize if it comes off that way, but I genuinely don't understand how the reasons are so hard to see. Or are you saying "I see no reason" in the sense that you don't think there are any good reasons?

That probably sounds bad, but that's honestly my thoughts. To me, I don't see the reason of hijacking an already established character when there are plenty of other female characters to use that have been woefully under-utilized.

Well...I mean, since you bring it up, yeah, it does sound kinda bad. I mean, even ignoring all the suppositions in play about this rumor to start with, you're telling people they shouldn't be allowed to have what they want because the desires of real people are less important than remaining true to the established "character" whom I can't even describe as a character with a straight face in most games rather than an avatar.

These conversations are always a source of sadness and confusion for me, because I am beginning to suspect I just do not have the necessary equipment to understand what harm people think is being done or to whom by people being allowed to play a female avatar in a game. If at any point I sound antagonistic, I ask for your pardon, because that's not my intent; I just hate being confused, and that irritation sometimes manifests in rude ways.

Having issued that disclaimer:

SixWingedAsura:
If you want to change something that's been established for years, I think you need to first ask why.

I mean this as gently as possible when I say it sounds like to me you have the answers as to why, but are dismissing them because they do not meet whatever criteria you believe are in place for the answers to be worthy.

Redryhno:

Maybe, just maybe, because Link's become ingrained in the public conscience as being a guy? Or Zelda, as the uninformed say.

Not so ingrained into the public consciousness that people still get the name wrong.

Anyway, it's a reincarnating soul locked in an eternal struggle against the bearer of the Triforce of Power, generally protecting the Bearer of the Triforce of Wisdom.[1]

What part of the backstory requires that every incarnation of the Hero be male? It's not like the Hero and the Ruler are destined to bone or anything.

Hell, even if they were, it still wouldn't stop a female Hero from appearing. There could just be a Prince instead of Princess. Or not even, for that matter. ;)

"It ruins the character!" How? Would Mega Man be diminished if Rokko-chan appeared as another character in a game? Are our old mascots so terribly fragile?

[1] Except in the games where it isn't, in which case it literally doesn't matter

I agree with your post, but just want to nitpick one little thing:

altnameJag:
What part of the backstory requires that every incarnation of the Hero be male? It's not like the Hero and the Ruler are destined to bone or anything.

It's also far from required that crotches interlock in order for two people to bone. There are ways upon ways upon ways around that.

JimB:
I agree with your post, but just want to nitpick one little thing:

altnameJag:
What part of the backstory requires that every incarnation of the Hero be male? It's not like the Hero and the Ruler are destined to bone or anything.

It's also far from required that crotches interlock in order for two people to bone. There are ways upon ways upon ways around that.

That's what the winky[1] in the next line was for.

Still, Nintendo's old. I don't want them to break anything moving too fast. (lol)

[1] double entendre!

altnameJag:

Redryhno:

Maybe, just maybe, because Link's become ingrained in the public conscience as being a guy? Or Zelda, as the uninformed say.

Not so ingrained into the public consciousness that people still get the name wrong.

Anyway, it's a reincarnating soul locked in an eternal struggle against the bearer of the Triforce of Power, generally protecting the Bearer of the Triforce of Wisdom.[1]

What part of the backstory requires that every incarnation of the Hero be male? It's not like the Hero and the Ruler are destined to bone or anything.

Hell, even if they were, it still wouldn't stop a female Hero from appearing. There could just be a Prince instead of Princess. Or not even, for that matter. ;)

"It ruins the character!" How? Would Mega Man be diminished if Rokko-chan appeared as another character in a game? Are our old mascots so terribly fragile?

I've addressed this in other posts, you're right, it doesn't matter(and I hate having to repeat myself in a post you literally quoted), but as I said in the post that you cut apart to argue with, I said that I want more thought put into it than just a genderswap(and also asked if you did to, which I think I've found the answer to be no considering this response). There's literally a hundred other female characters that have something interesting about them that would be fun to play a game with in the universe, why does nobody that want a female Link ask for them? Except Agatha, she's...annoying, to say the least.

And I never said it ruined the character, I just gave a reasoning for why people don't want it. Also was never much of a Mega-Man fan, so you really just shot something at me that I have no comprehension of to respond to. But in my little google-fu, she's just a fan genderswap right?

Is this what female protagonist has been reduced to? Is it not about making an - relatively - original character anymore with a recognizable style, it's about genderswapping? How boring can you get to clamor for something so INCREDIBLY mundane? Where's the clamoring for something involving Zelda's OoT actions? What about Tetra/Zelda's piratey days? What about Impa's multitude of duties from her appearances in the series? What about the Sages that have been prominent in the games? The Witch Sisters? The Great Fairies? From Twilight Princess specifically, there's Ashei, Midna, Telma. Heck, even Aryll could be a badass if they wanted her to be. Even Ilia with her memory loss, nobody exactly knows what happened during that time to her.

There's a huge amount of female characters with their own backstories and talents that could be made into a game(or even a progressing story with each taking a major part in before fading into the background and allowing the next to step up and continue on). The Zelda series is not lacking in creativity in the character department, to simply genderswap Link would honestly be a major step back as far as many people are concerned.

Edit: Also, it's sorta telling that you think a major reason people oppose it is for Zelda/Link fanfiction. Isn't there a thread going on somewhere around here with people saying that they like men and women characters being friends? I mean, there's only been like 2 games where it's even IMPLIED that that's what happens in the series, most of the others they're just friends if they're even that.

Rebel_Raven:

Honestly, it's mostly a "thing" because all three sides make a fuss over it. The people for it because it's just so frikking rare that a female lead is prominent in her own game, the people against it because for the large part they're assholes in some way shape or form (Not all are assholes, but a lot are) that want to keep women out of gaming for some reason, and the

Honestly, my take on it all is when games aren't majorly straight white guys getting all the women, and barely deviating from a certain personality, this will be less and less news.

Would be nice if you read what I posted. Not all are assholes. Just a lot of them.
In the end, what ever reason you dont want it, you're basically standing in the way of it, though. Not saying you're an asshole, just saying look at it from the perspectives of others.

If there's no reason to swap, why's there a reason not to swap? It's not like Link is the same Link in every game, rather Link gets reborn over and over again, and not always to save Zelda. Heck, Zelda isn't in every Legend of Zelda game.
But still, I wanna know, why not gender swap link? Beyond the desire to see more lore around an already female character? I mean a game designed around a character that's already a woman has nothing to do with a gender swapped link, or not. It doesn't have to be either or, here.

I'm not against an originally female character getting the lead, but until it happens, people aren't going to be happy, really.

I'd like to say that I read what you posted, and you said there are three camps, while there's actually four in your description and you just lumped in assholes with people that don't like it into the same camp because reasons.

And honestly, Link is the same Link in every game, because he's just the "Hero" of the Hero's Journey. He's a country bumpkin that has no idea what the world outside of his little corner of it is like that comes into a special power and is sent on his way to combat and fight "evil". It's a major plot point in nearly every iteration that he's EXCITED to be able to leave Outset, Ordon, StartingVilleTownShipTon,etc. for goshsakes. He wears basically the same thing, does the same things, grunts the same grunts. Link is Link is Link.

All that genderswapping Link does is polygons and textboxes. It changes nothing meaningful and you can argue that that should be a reason to do it, but I'm just sitting here and I ask "Why add the extra work for something so miniscule?". Now if you want to talk about adding in male/female options, it still adds work, but at least that makes it easier for everyone to be happy.

[1] Except in the games where it isn't, in which case it [i[literally[/i] doesn't matter

Redryhno:

Rebel_Raven:

Honestly, it's mostly a "thing" because all three sides make a fuss over it. The people for it because it's just so frikking rare that a female lead is prominent in her own game, the people against it because for the large part they're assholes in some way shape or form (Not all are assholes, but a lot are) that want to keep women out of gaming for some reason, and the

Honestly, my take on it all is when games aren't majorly straight white guys getting all the women, and barely deviating from a certain personality, this will be less and less news.

Would be nice if you read what I posted. Not all are assholes. Just a lot of them.
In the end, what ever reason you dont want it, you're basically standing in the way of it, though. Not saying you're an asshole, just saying look at it from the perspectives of others.

If there's no reason to swap, why's there a reason not to swap? It's not like Link is the same Link in every game, rather Link gets reborn over and over again, and not always to save Zelda. Heck, Zelda isn't in every Legend of Zelda game.
But still, I wanna know, why not gender swap link? Beyond the desire to see more lore around an already female character? I mean a game designed around a character that's already a woman has nothing to do with a gender swapped link, or not. It doesn't have to be either or, here.

I'm not against an originally female character getting the lead, but until it happens, people aren't going to be happy, really.

I'd like to say that I read what you posted, and you said there are three camps, while there's actually four in your description and you just lumped in assholes with people that don't like it into the same camp because reasons.

And honestly, Link is the same Link in every game, because he's just the "Hero" of the Hero's Journey. He's a country bumpkin that has no idea what the world outside of his little corner of it is like that comes into a special power and is sent on his way to combat and fight "evil". It's a major plot point in nearly every iteration that he's EXCITED to be able to leave Outset, Ordon, StartingVilleTownShipTon,etc. for goshsakes. He wears basically the same thing, does the same things, grunts the same grunts. Link is Link is Link.

All that genderswapping Link does is polygons and textboxes. It changes nothing meaningful and you can argue that that should be a reason to do it, but I'm just sitting here and I ask "Why add the extra work for something so miniscule?". Now if you want to talk about adding in male/female options, it still adds work, but at least that makes it easier for everyone to be happy.

Look at it from the point of view of the people you oppose is all I gotta say. Still three camps to me. The people with "reasons" and the people just being assholes are going for the same goal. The only difference is how they go about it.

But Link is a diffirent person that happens to be named Link, and dresses similarly. He's not like Mario who's always Mario, instead Link is born, reborn, and reborn over and over again, thus Link is not Link, but a legacybearer of the Link before that has similarities to the previous.

I have absolutely zero problems with a gender select option.
I agree Link has never really done a whole lot that's traditionally male like go on dates with women, make out with women, have a wife, and family, and so forth, so a gender neutral script will be pretty easy to do, I think. Just need 2 VAs, or maybe just one to make "HYA! HYAI! HAAAII!!" noises. :P Women in Japan usually do young boy's voices anyhow, and "HUT HUT! HEJT! TYAAA! WAAA! HUT!" doesn't really need a translation to other languages. lol

Honestly, girls want to break out of podunk bumpkinvilles, and see the world, and go on adventures, too. I think it's pretty universal that near no one likes being cooped up, and limited in a place that is boring. I think it'd ring even more so if power to do something beyond the scope of normal were bestowed upon a person no matter their gender.

I can't imagine it's a whole lot of extra work depending on the aptitude of the company. I mean if we get a female link in Hyrule Warriors, it probably isn't a lot of trouble coz we're talking Koei here.
Koei's kinda masterful about charcter creation (Granted it's not super deep or anything), gender options, voices, and generally having a wide variety of characters, from young girls like the Qiao sisters and Gracia to large men like Meng Huo, Dong Zhuo, and Huang gai to even gigantic people like the boar demons in Warriors Orochi that are some 20 ft tall.
Basically it's well within the wheelhouse of Koei to make what ever character they want. Heck they even have Ganon in beast mode IIRC. I'm not too sure if Epona's a lone character or not.
We're not talking about EA here who complained making playable women was too hard only to do it in the upcoming AC, or anything like that. :P

Rebel_Raven:

Look at it from the point of view of the people you oppose is all I gotta say. Still three camps to me. The people with "reasons" and the people just being assholes are going for the same goal. The only difference is how they go about it.

But Link is a diffirent person that happens to be named Link, and dresses similarly. He's not like Mario who's always Mario, instead Link is born, reborn, and reborn over and over again, thus Link is not Link, but a legacybearer of the Link before that has similarities to the previous.

I have absolutely zero problems with a gender select option.
I agree Link has never really done a whole lot that's traditionally male like go on dates with women, make out with women, have a wife, and family, and so forth, so a gender neutral script will be pretty easy to do, I think. Just need 2 VAs, or maybe just one to make "HYA! HYAI! HAAAII!!" noises. :P Women in Japan usually do young boy's voices anyhow, and "HUT HUT! HEJT! TYAAA! WAAA! HUT!" doesn't really need a translation to other languages. lol

Honestly, girls want to break out of podunk bumpkinvilles, and see the world, and go on adventures, too. I think it's pretty universal that near no one likes being cooped up, and limited in a place that is boring. I think it'd ring even more so if power to do something beyond the scope of normal were bestowed upon a person no matter their gender.

I can't imagine it's a whole lot of extra work depending on the aptitude of the company. I mean if we get a female link in Hyrule Warriors, it probably isn't a lot of trouble coz we're talking Koei here.
Koei's kinda masterful about charcter creation (Granted it's not super deep or anything), gender options, voices, and generally having a wide variety of characters, from young girls like the Qiao sisters and Gracia to large men like Meng Huo, Dong Zhuo, and Huang gai to even gigantic people like the boar demons in Warriors Orochi that are some 20 ft tall.
Basically it's well within the wheelhouse of Koei to make what ever character they want. Heck they even have Ganon in beast mode IIRC. I'm not too sure if Epona's a lone character or not.
We're not talking about EA here who complained making playable women was too hard only to do it in the upcoming AC, or anything like that. :P

"Look at it from the view of the people you oppose"

Gotta love that one. What a zinger to tell people, while not doing it oneself. Or actually even acknowledging my other points beyond it. Also you keep swapping between Hyrule Warriors and the main series for your arguments. The only problem I've got with "Linkle" is that there's not a game or world we know of to pull female Link from, and it's a game built on spectacle and the merging of universes. It's fanfiction, but it's also fanfiction that works within the established "rules" of the universe.

He's a different body, with the same soul. And in the game universe, that is all that matters. Destiny and fate are both things that are very much in use in the Zelda universe. Link is a guy, he dresses the same, acts the same, and does roughly the same things every iteration, he's bound to do about the same thing whenever all three bearers of the Triforce are in the same timeframe of one another, because he's the Hero of Time. About the only thing that changes is the layout of the world around the characters, because they all exist in nearly every game if you look around enough. Impa appears in nearly every game, Saria is Ilia, Darunia and Biggoron are near one another. Though now that I think about it, the Zora actually seem to have a royal line that changes every game they appear in, so I lie, they're an exception. Also the obvious new characters that some of the games get that sometimes never return.

And you're right, girls want those things as well, they're people as much as anyone else. But here's the thing, I gave examples of female characters that could be used instead of just genderswapping(something I've always considered to be the ultimate copout and lack of creativity in pretty much everything but Ranma). Because Zelda's got alot of them that are just as capable(more often than not moreso considering all the mini-games for pieces of heart) as Link himself. And there's alot of backstory that can actually be looked through with them in addition to being a hero. There's monuments to people other than Link all around the world. The Darknuts have their own history, the Gorons their own heroes, Lizalfos have a feud going on with the Sheikah going back centuries, Stalfos weren't always a race of undead, they were made that way through their own magic. There can be other stories besides Link's in the world that can involve women and I want those instead of Link with tits. Ashei has a dislike of most of the Hylian Guard because they're too easy to win against in a fight and has a respect for Link simply because he has the Master Sword.

Also, it's Ubi you're talking about with AC. Which I honestly can't blame them for considering the context of the game being you aren't another character to anybody but what someone else sees, you're just random assassin #24456821, and the more I think about it, the more I'm sure they only said it to get free publicity...especially with all the people somewhat copying the controversy since then.

Redryhno:

Rebel_Raven:

Look at it from the point of view of the people you oppose is all I gotta say. Still three camps to me. The people with "reasons" and the people just being assholes are going for the same goal. The only difference is how they go about it.

But Link is a diffirent person that happens to be named Link, and dresses similarly. He's not like Mario who's always Mario, instead Link is born, reborn, and reborn over and over again, thus Link is not Link, but a legacybearer of the Link before that has similarities to the previous.

I have absolutely zero problems with a gender select option.
I agree Link has never really done a whole lot that's traditionally male like go on dates with women, make out with women, have a wife, and family, and so forth, so a gender neutral script will be pretty easy to do, I think. Just need 2 VAs, or maybe just one to make "HYA! HYAI! HAAAII!!" noises. :P Women in Japan usually do young boy's voices anyhow, and "HUT HUT! HEJT! TYAAA! WAAA! HUT!" doesn't really need a translation to other languages. lol

Honestly, girls want to break out of podunk bumpkinvilles, and see the world, and go on adventures, too. I think it's pretty universal that near no one likes being cooped up, and limited in a place that is boring. I think it'd ring even more so if power to do something beyond the scope of normal were bestowed upon a person no matter their gender.

I can't imagine it's a whole lot of extra work depending on the aptitude of the company. I mean if we get a female link in Hyrule Warriors, it probably isn't a lot of trouble coz we're talking Koei here.
Koei's kinda masterful about charcter creation (Granted it's not super deep or anything), gender options, voices, and generally having a wide variety of characters, from young girls like the Qiao sisters and Gracia to large men like Meng Huo, Dong Zhuo, and Huang gai to even gigantic people like the boar demons in Warriors Orochi that are some 20 ft tall.
Basically it's well within the wheelhouse of Koei to make what ever character they want. Heck they even have Ganon in beast mode IIRC. I'm not too sure if Epona's a lone character or not.
We're not talking about EA here who complained making playable women was too hard only to do it in the upcoming AC, or anything like that. :P

"Look at it from the view of the people you oppose"

Gotta love that one. What a zinger to tell people, while not doing it oneself. Or actually even acknowledging my other points beyond it. Also you keep swapping between Hyrule Warriors and the main series for your arguments. The only problem I've got with "Linkle" is that there's not a game or world we know of to pull female Link from, and it's a game built on spectacle and the merging of universes. It's fanfiction, but it's also fanfiction that works within the established "rules" of the universe.

He's a different body, with the same soul. And in the game universe, that is all that matters. Destiny and fate are both things that are very much in use in the Zelda universe. Link is a guy, he dresses the same, acts the same, and does roughly the same things every iteration, he's bound to do about the same thing whenever all three bearers of the Triforce are in the same timeframe of one another, because he's the Hero of Time. About the only thing that changes is the layout of the world around the characters, because they all exist in nearly every game if you look around enough. Impa appears in nearly every game, Saria is Ilia, Darunia and Biggoron are near one another. Though now that I think about it, the Zora actually seem to have a royal line that changes every game they appear in, so I lie, they're an exception. Also the obvious new characters that some of the games get that sometimes never return.

And you're right, girls want those things as well, they're people as much as anyone else. But here's the thing, I gave examples of female characters that could be used instead of just genderswapping(something I've always considered to be the ultimate copout and lack of creativity in pretty much everything but Ranma). Because Zelda's got alot of them that are just as capable(more often than not moreso considering all the mini-games for pieces of heart) as Link himself. And there's alot of backstory that can actually be looked through with them in addition to being a hero. There's monuments to people other than Link all around the world. The Darknuts have their own history, the Gorons their own heroes, Lizalfos have a feud going on with the Sheikah going back centuries, Stalfos weren't always a race of undead, they were made that way through their own magic. There can be other stories besides Link's in the world that can involve women and I want those instead of Link with tits. Ashei has a dislike of most of the Hylian Guard because they're too easy to win against in a fight and has a respect for Link simply because he has the Master Sword.

Also, it's Ubi you're talking about with AC. Which I honestly can't blame them for considering the context of the game being you aren't another character to anybody but what someone else sees, you're just random assassin #24456821, and the more I think about it, the more I'm sure they only said it to get free publicity...especially with all the people somewhat copying the controversy since then.

I actually do look at it from as many points of views as I can, and I'm willing to compromise, here. And I'm willing to state my point of view. But the thing is until people spell it out, I can only guess as to their point of view, and because of that, how they present themselves determines the amount of asshole I'm dealing with.

There's no Zelda game world to pull Cia from. Or Lana for that matter. I think that kinda blows the excuse for Hyrule Warriors having to stick to the game worlds out of the water.

Just coz Links share the same souls doesn't mean the soul has to determine the gender, IMO.

The problem, I guess, with making someone not Link the lead is probably the power sets. LoZ games generally have tool sets only Link can really use in the main ones. Hyrule Warriors is the exception, I imagine.
If just anyone could do what Link does, Link doen't seem so special. That said, I figure if someone else takes the lead, like Impa, or Zelda, then they either have to make them as powerful as Link, or really redo the whole Legend of Zelda forumla. I don't know if Nintendo is really up for that. I mean they screwed around with Mario's world and it didn't do them many favors, IIRC, and screwing with Samus? Granted it was another studio, but wow, I don't know if we're going to get another metroid game after messing up that formula.

Not my fault Ubisoft announced that they had initially planned on adding women, and then cut them out... then made a whole new AC that'll have a playable female Assassin (though I'm not getting hyped until I know the extent of her playability). I mean, why they said it is irrelevant, in my "what have you done for me lately" view of the gmaing industry, that's nails in their coffin. FC4 are even more nails. Just saying, I like Koei more than Ubisoft right now. :P

Rebel_Raven:

We're not talking about EA here who complained making playable women was too hard only to do it in the upcoming AC, or anything like that. :P

In fairness, did you see how badly they botched that game? Ubisoft was probably telling the truth when they said women were too hard to animate[1]. They couldn't even make their existing models work. I imagine women would have breasts in odd places like Picasso paintings.

The funniest thing about Link is how little it'd take. He has elfin, effeminate features at any age, wears a tunic that looks like a skirt or dress, and is usually voiced by a girl (at least one of those you mention, but I'm throwing it out there) and there's still resistance? Heck, I don't even remember much in the way of gendered dialogue in Zelda games, either. Link's gender is so important he could already be a girl.

In fact, LRR's Checkpoint once covered a guy who made a gender swap ROMhack for his daughter, with the punchline being that so little effort was necessary. But the reality is, so little effort is necessary. You don't even need a second character model unless you really want to go there. Even Pokémon doesn't have that going for them.

(Not that I'd balk at a different character model for a female Link, I'm just saying the people complaining about ALL THE EFFORT seem a little insincere here)

[1] Glib version

Zachary Amaranth:

Rebel_Raven:

We're not talking about EA here who complained making playable women was too hard only to do it in the upcoming AC, or anything like that. :P

In fairness, did you see how badly they botched that game? Ubisoft was probably telling the truth when they said women were too hard to animate[1]. They couldn't even make their existing models work. I imagine women would have breasts in odd places like Picasso paintings.

The funniest thing about Link is how little it'd take. He has elfin, effeminate features at any age, wears a tunic that looks like a skirt or dress, and is usually voiced by a girl (at least one of those you mention, but I'm throwing it out there) and there's still resistance? Heck, I don't even remember much in the way of gendered dialogue in Zelda games, either. Link's gender is so important he could already be a girl.

In fact, LRR's Checkpoint once covered a guy who made a gender swap ROMhack for his daughter, with the punchline being that so little effort was necessary. But the reality is, so little effort is necessary. You don't even need a second character model unless you really want to go there. Even Pokémon doesn't have that going for them.

(Not that I'd balk at a different character model for a female Link, I'm just saying the people complaining about ALL THE EFFORT seem a little insincere here)

LOL Thanks, I needed the laugh! Yeah, Ubi really hurt trust in them with Unity all around. Cutting women, releasing a game with frightening bugs, etc. Granted some played the game unscathed, but word spread anyhow, and some people were hit by them, and their rep took a big hit. Didn't their stock tumble thanks to Unity?

Yeah, Link's more adult form was made because the designer wanted to make Link more appealing to his wife, IIRC, and Japan kinda goes the other way with what looks appeal to women than most typical western standards, though it's kinda changing in the west. But even still, Japan tends to take it farther than the west is likely willing to go for a while in most parts of it.
But heck, even before then,


But seriously, Link isn't that far from androgyny in more than one case.

Yeah, that guy that made the rom hack made several more, I think, which was really great of him! That's being there for your daughter on so many levels! It's a rare, but wonderful mentality!
A guy behind Payday 2 wanted to make female characters for his daughter's sake as well, and did!

[1] Glib version

Rebel_Raven:

There's no Zelda game world to pull Cia from. Or Lana for that matter. I think that kinda blows the excuse for Hyrule Warriors having to stick to the game worlds out of the water.

Just coz Links share the same souls doesn't mean the soul has to determine the gender, IMO.

The problem, I guess, with making someone not Link the lead is probably the power sets. LoZ games generally have tool sets only Link can really use in the main ones. Hyrule Warriors is the exception, I imagine.
If just anyone could do what Link does, Link doen't seem so special. That said, I figure if someone else takes the lead, like Impa, or Zelda, then they either have to make them as powerful as Link, or really redo the whole Legend of Zelda forumla. I don't know if Nintendo is really up for that. I mean they screwed around with Mario's world and it didn't do them many favors, IIRC, and screwing with Samus? Granted it was another studio, but wow, I don't know if we're going to get another metroid game after messing up that formula.

Not my fault Ubisoft announced that they had initially planned on adding women, and then cut them out... then made a whole new AC that'll have a playable female Assassin (though I'm not getting hyped until I know the extent of her playability). I mean, why they said it is irrelevant, in my "what have you done for me lately" view of the gmaing industry, that's nails in their coffin. FC4 are even more nails. Just saying, I like Koei more than Ubisoft right now. :P

As I said in another post, there had to be some kind of justification for Lana and Cia to exist and I'm willing to let them pass despite me not caring for either of them. As I said, it's fanfiction, but it has rules it abides by. I mean, nearly every Warriors game has characters that don't have a canon appearance...

And the reason Link doesn't feel so special, is because there's not really a huge amount that is special about him in the first place. He's got the Triforce of Courage, that's about it. And that's how it was designed mostly, nearly every game has the standard Epic Hero's Journey formula playing in it. There's not a huge amount special about Odysseus, and as I said in another post, the Eddings' books have heroes that aren't really all that special either. Xanth has alot of heroes that are only special because they become so after a huge amount of conflict. Link is much the same. Everything that makes him special comes from the struggles and and conflicts he/you encounter in the world.

Mario_Sonic_Megaman:

@Aiddon: I think you have a point in that a female Link would still be the same boring, personality-devoid character he's always been, just with a gender swap. The only reason why people would celebrate her being a female is the mere sake that she's a female, despite being the world's biggest dullard of a female character.

Exactly, it's a copout; it's not adding diversity, it's just pretending to add diversity by adding a gender option just like how adding a skin-shade indicator doesn't change the fact that the protagonist is always a white-male as a default. It doesn't solve the problem that we have too-few heroines in gaming and when we do get a heroine it's most certainly either a lazy archetype or a personality-deficient block masquerading as a woman. If you want a female character just write one instead of adding boobs and pretending that's anything but shallow.

And that's before we get into why arguing about this is moot: this isn't a female Link. The character was, as seen in the artbook and official Prima strategy guide, designed as a little sister to Link. In short, she's an ass-kicking Aryll.

MonsterCrit:
Girl Link? How'll you tell the difference.. I mean honestly He's always kinda a been a little bishie. I mean if he had longer hair he'd give sephiroth a run for his money

Give Sephiroth a run for his money? Not even close; Link is barely a grade above typical male lead fare in Japanese culture. At best he's around Jin Kisaragi-level. Now if we were comparing, say, Alucard from Castlevania to Sephiroth that'd be closer on the scale. That's just how they like their men unlike America where "ruggedness" was the status-quo for awhile and that's gradually being phased out.

Redryhno:

Rebel_Raven:

There's no Zelda game world to pull Cia from. Or Lana for that matter. I think that kinda blows the excuse for Hyrule Warriors having to stick to the game worlds out of the water.

Just coz Links share the same souls doesn't mean the soul has to determine the gender, IMO.

The problem, I guess, with making someone not Link the lead is probably the power sets. LoZ games generally have tool sets only Link can really use in the main ones. Hyrule Warriors is the exception, I imagine.
If just anyone could do what Link does, Link doen't seem so special. That said, I figure if someone else takes the lead, like Impa, or Zelda, then they either have to make them as powerful as Link, or really redo the whole Legend of Zelda forumla. I don't know if Nintendo is really up for that. I mean they screwed around with Mario's world and it didn't do them many favors, IIRC, and screwing with Samus? Granted it was another studio, but wow, I don't know if we're going to get another metroid game after messing up that formula.

Not my fault Ubisoft announced that they had initially planned on adding women, and then cut them out... then made a whole new AC that'll have a playable female Assassin (though I'm not getting hyped until I know the extent of her playability). I mean, why they said it is irrelevant, in my "what have you done for me lately" view of the gmaing industry, that's nails in their coffin. FC4 are even more nails. Just saying, I like Koei more than Ubisoft right now. :P

As I said in another post, there had to be some kind of justification for Lana and Cia to exist and I'm willing to let them pass despite me not caring for either of them. As I said, it's fanfiction, but it has rules it abides by. I mean, nearly every Warriors game has characters that don't have a canon appearance...

And the reason Link doesn't feel so special, is because there's not really a huge amount that is special about him in the first place. He's got the Triforce of Courage, that's about it. And that's how it was designed mostly, nearly every game has the standard Epic Hero's Journey formula playing in it. There's not a huge amount special about Odysseus, and as I said in another post, the Eddings' books have heroes that aren't really all that special either. Xanth has alot of heroes that are only special because they become so after a huge amount of conflict. Link is much the same. Everything that makes him special comes from the struggles and and conflicts he/you encounter in the world.

Yeah, and this thread is about a female link in a Warriors game, and I'm all for a female Link in it. I mean it effectively adds gender select for Link, unless she has a unique moveset that makes her play different. The roster itself is really diverse since Koei can pretty creatively make a fighting style for virtually anyone, and often will just to make them a character.

As for a female Link outside of a warriors game:
I never said Link doesn't feel special. I'm sorry if it came out that way. Link is an icon, who's basically a shouty mix between peter pan, and batman. Dressed in green, a strong fighter with a pack that can carry dang near anything he'll ever need, being a bit of a detective for puzzles, and he's the hero.
But making someone else have that set of abilities in a Legend of Zelda game will kinda diminish Link's unique nature, yes. That said, Impa, Zelda, and others getting Link's skill set diminishes what makes Link special, IMO. The characters in the place of Link become clones of Link in essense because they have to do what Link does to complete their mission, and generally clones aren't looked upon well. Clones are not often respected, and it just dillutes what makes Link special. It raises the question of why in the heck are they so incompitent the rest of the time? If they can do everything the bearer of the Triforce of Courage can, then what makes Link so special when more than just Link can go save the day, and where the heck are they when the world needs them?

If they don't get Link's skill set in their own game, then the entire formula of the game has to change. Nintendo does not have the best track record with changing the formula.

When all is said and done, though, I'd like a woman to go through the heroe's journey a bit more often.

Aiddon:
It's not adding diversity, it's just pretending to add diversity by adding a gender option just like how adding a skin-shade indicator doesn't change the fact that the protagonist is always a white-male as a default.

I take it from your lack of response to my previous post that you do not intend to answer my questions, Aiddon, but all the same, I feel I must ask, who said anything about diversity? For that matter, what does "diversity" mean to you when creating more options for players doesn't count as diversity?

So here we have a character, born and reborn, time and time again, a kid who wears green and eventually saves the world. The character is also a guy all of the time, but it doesn't need justification because... why?

How come adding ovaries to a character for whom gender doesn't matter require justification?

Does the story of Pokemon change due to whether or not the trainer is a boy or a girl?

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