J.J. Abrams Addresses Lack of Rey in The Force Awakens Merchandise

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The Monopoly game came out months ago, back when the advertisement tried to convince us that Finn was the new main good guy Jedi. It is also not a Force Awakens Monompoly, but simply a Star Wars one.
Plus, this is a licensed collector orientated Monopoly, with only four pieces, guess what's going to happen, they'll release the same version with different pieces every couple of months. They did the same with the Transformers Monopoly, each version with a different set of characters so you had to get all if you wanted all of the (actually really nicely done pieces). The next set will contain Rey, and three other characters, and the set after that will contain others characters again, it's how this works.

As for the amount of Rey action figures, she gets the same amount as anyone else (save main Stormtroopers, toy collectors love army building which means cash money!), she was part of trying to conceal spoilers for the movie though. A guy got sued because he found and bought a Rey action figure that was put out before its street date, he posted a photo of it and got his ass sued. The action figure was of Rey with the Anakin Lightsaber.

As for missing in action figure sets, she can't be in all, and it's extremely difficult in this case, the one that gets pointed out the most contains three figures of each side, Keylo Ren (the main bad guy who's the face of the toy packaging, they're trying to make this the new Darth Vader) Two different Troopers (army building is fun and troopers are the easiest to make with the most profit), Chewbacca (important beloved legacy retro character, to justify people buying the set), Finn (the advertisements "main character", excluding him would have resulted in accusations of racism), and Poe (excluding him would also lead to accusations of racism, what the white girl is included, but not the Latin guy?). Seriously they can't win here.
BB8 is so prevalent because he's designed to be the kid appeal character, he's a cute, funny little R2D2 like robot that makes cute funny noises, so he gets lots of merch.

As for playsets, guess what, Hasbro wants you to buy all of the playsets, which is why you won't find every character, even important ones in all of them. Yes, she's missing from the Millenium Falcon, but so is Han Solo, the owner and most iconic character associated with that ship. She's already available in a set featuring her speeder thing.

But yes, she gets just as many figures as everyone else, she is present in every product range of the toy line, save for the giant Darth Vader ones. I know, I spend hours looking through all of them trying to find R2D2 an C3P0, they only had a shitty two pack.

And to those comparing this to the Black Widow thing from Age of Ultron, you know why she had so little toys in that movie? It was because the Black Widow figures for the first Avengers movie sold so badly that they were still taking up shelf space when Age of Ultron came around. She was a commercial failure for the first toy line, so she was reduced in the second basically just there because she was an important part of the movie and had to be done.

halisme:

If someone's in a fight and their weapon is knocked away from them, are they not going to try their hardest to recover it? Secondly, he's a sith, he's wounded and he knew Rey was force sensitive. Those are three reasons for him over do it, and be desperate enough to try anything. His fighting style is based around overdoing it, heavy blows with little control.

He still had his weapon, and as far as he was concerned at that point, the fight was already over. He was over confident and fucked up. That was sort of the entire point of his existence in the movie.

halisme:

Often:

Uhhh, no. Do you always use your full strength when you pick something up if no one's opposing you for it? When you pick up a can of soda, does it crumple under the force of your grip because you go around constantly using your full strength for no reason?

Kylo had absolutely no reason to USE his full strength when he pulled the lightsaber to him, because he didn't know anyone else was trying to get it. It's no different than if you bent down to casually pick up a broom off the floor yourself, only to have someone you didn't know was there snatch it out of your hand. Neither is any indicator of who is stronger.

If someone's in a fight and their weapon is knocked away from them, are they not going to try their hardest to recover it? Secondly, he's a sith, he's wounded and he knew Rey was force sensitive. Those are three reasons for him over do it, and be desperate enough to try anything. His fighting style is based around overdoing it, heavy blows with little control.

This was the first thing Rey did after being knocked out. Kyko Ren didn't realise she was conscious until she grabbed the saber.

Finn was also down and out. So he wasn't in a fight as far as he knew.

It wasn't his weapon that was knocked away, he was still armed with his own saber. So still armed, no conscious opponents he was aware of and the fact that he was probably pretty drained from that near fatal gut shot he took from a bowcaster would make it reasonable for him to not be using his full power.

That particular saber had been calling out to Rey. Basic chosen one trope. Makes her no more Mary Sue than the fact that the entirety of the force revolves solely around the Skwyalker family.

EDIT: There's also no indication he's Sith. Dark Jedi certainly.

Welp, it seems Hasbro is combining Monopoly with DLC.

Combine that with pursuing fans of different movies. There's exactly zero reasons for them to include more than 4 figures. For now.

The rest looks like trying to reach the most profitable demographic first. Big deal.

See, I was happy with the trailers downplaying Rey's importance, because it made the reveal of her picking up the lightsaber in the final battle all the more awesome. That being said, we're starting to see the double-edged side of that.

Even so, it doesn't make a lot of sense. It's not like she was omitted from the marketing material; she's front and centre on the poster, she's obviously an important character. What reason could they possibly have for not merchandising her apart from old view, sexist "girls don't like Star Wars" thinking, which has always been horse-shit?

Interesting about that Monopoly game and all, but I haven't noticed a lack of Rey merchandise in general. I for example have the action figure pictured here, along with several others in the set, but haven't been able to find Poe or Finn, I doubtlessly will eventually (or order them online) but Rey was one of the first figures I was able to find.

VoidWanderer:

Jadak:
eh, this is still dumb. Well, complaining about a lack of characters is fine, it's the accusations of sexism that are dumb.

I get people wanting Rey, but I come on, there's only 4 playable pieces, and it's already split between 1 from each trilogy and 1 from each faction. There was literally one piece that could be swapped out for Rey in that model, and then we'd just be left with accusations of racism instead.

The only reasonable complaint is that only having 4 pieces is shit to begin with. Should have been at least 8, or new trilogy only characters if they really wanted to stick with 4.

In any case, perfect opportunity for them to capitalize on expansion sets of characters.

Wait, racism? For cutting out Darth Vader?

Darth Vader was actually voiced by a black man, none other than James Earl Jones. In today's world of political correctness I wouldn't be surprised if people made a thing about it myself.

Rey is as important to put into the figure lines as anyone else in the movie. She does only need one as there is only one outfit through the whole movie.
Monopoly hardly matters, they could have just put the ships in the game, would have saved all the hassle. As someone else pointed out though, there used to be about 6 different things to choose from so costcutting at play here I think.

People are literally upset about the lack of an inch high figurine.

I hope that sinks in.

TheVampwizimp:

Greymarch10:
Rey isnt being ignored by manufacturers because she is female. She is being ignored because she is a boring, Mary Sue character who doesnt inspire female nor male children. The more time passes, the more people will get over the buzz, and realize Rey isnt really a Star Wars-worthy character.

You're right, why would they merchandise a bad character? No one ever does that, and now Disney is finally catching up. In fact, they were wrong to put Kylo Ren in the game too, since he's a sissy pansy poopy. And Luke does nothing but look sad, sooo lame. And Vader is like the worst character in the whole movie, just sitting on the desk, all without a body and shit. Why are any of these characters being merchandised at all? Sooo stupid...

You know, they shouldn't merchandise the Hulk anymore either for the Avengers. He's barely a character, he isn't worthy to be a Marvel star. I mean, he's a green monster, not a young white male, what the hell is he doing here???

In fairness, I do remember that, as a kid playing with my friends in the early 80s, we used to play paper-rock-scissors to avoid playing with the Luke figurine. NOBODY wanted to play with Luke - I mean, even as 6 yr old boys, we thought Leia was cool, but Luke was just too whiny.

I bet if they made a gold bikini version of Rey it would sell like hot cakes. lol. Seems weird they cut her out of the game. If they have only 4 pieces to chose from why not have 2 choices for each colour?

SonOfVoorhees:
I bet if they made a gold bikini version of Rey it would sell like hot cakes. lol. Seems weird they cut her out of the game. If they have only 4 pieces to chose from why not have 2 choices for each colour?

Th game was made to accompany the film, but because it was developed so early, they had to broaden it out to be a Star Wars monopoly. So Vader and Luke are in, and then Finn and Kylo - who just so happen to parallel Luke and Vader as the two who have an epic lightsaber battle which is visible in trailers - are in.

I don't understand how people can't see the absurdity of this. If Finn had been cut for her to be in, would BLM be protesting the game's release due to racial discrimination? No, of course not. They're still preoccupied with concocting racism out of Vader.

I would not be the least bit surprised if this whole thing with the lack of Rey dolls action figures was just a viral advertising gimmick designed and implemented to sell what are essentially useless chunks of plastic to gullible millennials. So that they can be put on shelves and hung off walls to serve as fetishised objects with which to virtue signal to other like-minded consumerists about just how extra double special progressive they are.

Consumption becomes virtue.
Virtue becomes consumption.

Yes, I am a cynic. What on earth gave me away?

Alright, a few things I want to comment on pertaining to this news story and the discussion around it.

THERE ARE A LOT OF REY TOYS

This is not a Black Widow situation, where Disney specifically bought a property (Marvel) to court one demographic (young males) and ignore another (young females) because it already had it locked down (Disney Princesses). Your new Disney Star Wars was an egalitarian wet dream , and you can rest reasonably assured that this was deliberate. This is their mass market "catch as many as you can" IP. And this is Star Wars. LIKE THEY WEREN'T GOING TO MAKE TOYS OUT OF EVERYTHING.

One of the major, if not THE major reasons there aren't a lot of Rey toys is because Rey was very popular, even before the film launched and her toys were selling out.

http://www.mtv.com/news/2688307/female-star-wars-toys-selling-out/
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-30/-star-wars-toys-aren-t-just-for-boys-anymore-as-rey-takes-over

That might be of interest to Zontar and the "Rey is such a shitty character no one wanted a toy of her LUL" gang.

THE "THERE ARE NO REY TOYS" STUPIDITY SWIRLED AROUND TWO PRODUCTS

One was an action figure set containing Poe, Finn, Kylo Ren, Chewbacca, and two Storm Troopers (??). No Han in there either, it was just a random set of six figures. Jamie Ford tweeted a picture of this shrieking about "No Rey", as though Star Wars wasn't the biggest merchandising whore in the history of film franchises, and there wouldn't be Rey toys to find elsewhere. And some Very Excitable People read this on the internet and took it as gospel, because of course they did.

The other was Monopoly, which included 4 figures, two of which were Luke and Darth. Two things leap immediately to mind here. One is that their whole "we were trying to avoid spoilers" excuse is woefully transparent and feeble, and the second is that they really don't require an excuse. It's MONOPOLY. Who FUCKING CARES. There will probably be thirty seven more Force Awakens Monopolies released over the next two years, because Monopoly might be second only to Star Wars in the "whoring itself out" department. They'd make an all IG-88 Monopoly if they thought someone would buy it.

HASBRO PROBABLY THOUGHT FINN WAS THE CENTRAL CHARACTER

Thanks to the film's deliberately misleading marketing. Who knows when these stupid Monopolies went into production. Very little thought likely went into them. Because, you know, Monopoly. Just the fact Luke and Darth are in there and there are only four tokens total tells you how much love and care this product got. It's a lazy cash-in on the new film. Some Taiwanese factory probably had one still from the film to work on five months ago.

TO THE PEOPLE OH SO PREDICTABLY WHINING ABOUT TEH SJWS

Please do give it a rest. You're as bad as, if not actively worse, than the people you are condemning. Just a bunch of outrage addicts, symbiotically generating drama.

Dominic, you make some good points and I appreciate these films can be read differently, so don't take this as a direct attack on you, its more a counterpoint to this "You aren't allowed to describe Rey as a Mary Sue because...INSERT ORIGINAL CHARACTER HERE" argument, mainly because I don't believe most of the examples are valid ones.

Dominic Crossman:
Han - You mean the guy all the fans want to be because he's such a bad ass

That doesn't mean he's a Mary Sue. It means people like the character. As a kid I wanted to be a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle. Doesn't mean they are Mary Sues.

First off lets get the definitions out the way:

Wiki:
A Mary Sue or Gary Stu or Marty Stu is an idealized fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities. Often this character is recognized as an author insert and/or wish-fulfillment.

Just in case anyone is feeling pedantic, see the word "Often" at the start of the second sentence. OK moving on...

Dominic Crossman:
...who only completely fails once (vs Vader and Lando's betrayal) and can otherwise shoot or talk his way out of any given situation.

I see this completely differently and I believe my interpretation is backed up by the actual films. In my interpretation of the character he is constantly failing to make the right choices. Failing but looking good doing it isn't a Mary Sue, maybe there is another word for this kind of character, Google probably has the answer. He's constantly making the wrong choices for the wrong reasons and living by simple luck alone, NOT his competence.

Lets just take one sequence for example. Leia's "rescue" from the Detention center in A New Hope. Han needs Luke to come up with a plan to get them into the prison block. Once in the Detention Center he takes command and promptly messes up convincing security that everything is OK. He then retreats into a dead end and guess what? Leia ends up saving them all by taking a blaster from Luke (who is totally a Mary Sue), blasting a hole in the wall and directing them through. Once in the trash compactor he tries to shoot the door, nearly killing them all. Luke is dragged under the water by a creature, Han flails around, has to be told to shoot the thing by Luke, fails at that and Luke is dragged under again. Failing to save Luke Han looks around dumbly and for a moment it seems like Luke is dead, only when the trash compactor starts does Luke resurface. Now the trash compactor starts to close in and its Leia who directs them to try bracing the walls. Luke (being a total Mary Sue) forgets he can contact the droids and only remembers at the last second, because he's perfect like that.

Dominic Crossman:
Who saves the protagonists life twice that I remember.

And who is saved multiple times by the other characters (including Leia, I feel I need to make this point as it seems people forget quite how bad-ass Leia is in the original films), see above for two examples in just one scene.

Dominic Crossman:
Who gets the Princess by being a bit of a dick.

Who Leia falls in love with because despite his many many flaws she sees he is a good man under all that bluster and bravado. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to take away Leias agency? (I don't believe you are, I'm just being an ass to make the point, sorry about that).

Dominic Crossman:
Who causes a dozen stormtroopers to retreat for backup on their hometurf of the Death Star.

This, to be honest, is a fairly stupid illogical scene, the storm troopers start running after Han shoots the first one, it doesn't make much sense. Maybe they are going for backup? They know they have a room full of friends just around the corner and they have no cover where they are standing. It seems like totally the wrong choice for Han to make in the circumstances and as much as it buys them a few seconds, ultimately its a stupid move that only puts him and chewie in more danger. I did go back and watch this scene to be sure I wasn't talking completely out of my butt.

Dominic Crossman:
Who finds Luke in the middle of a snowstorm with no tracking device while Luke is wearing winter camo against impossible odds.

Fair point, however Luke checks in with Han just before he is taken out by the Wampa. "I've finished my circle" implying its probably a predefined route. So as long as he's not dragged off to far Han would have a good idea where to look.

Dominic Crossman:
Who wins the trust of the Rebels so easily that they trust him (and Leia) to lead the assault on the mission critical shield generator.

Without spending some time looking up the specific timelines for the original films I'd assume its at least a year or two between the first and third films, plenty of time for the rebels to learn to trust Han, especially after his role in the success of the original Deathstar destruction.

Dominic Crossman:
As for the mechanic thing that's Chewies department more so then Solos

True, Chewie does seem to do more of the actual fixing, but maybe thats because, I don't know, someone has to fly the ship? Just a thought.

Dominic Crossman:
Side note: None of this is to say I'm a massive fan of character or anything, I just hate the Mary Sue argument, ESPECIALLY when they're far more valid compliants.

I personally don't dislike Rey as a character, however I do believe there are good arguments that she is a Mary Sue character. I'd happy argue my case for Ripley, Furiosa and most other popular female and also male leading characters NOT being Mary Sues, with specific examples in the first films they appear in. I'd be interested to see if someone could do the same with Rey, I'm not sure I could.

Small Moon Rabbit:
I personally don't dislike Rey as a character, however I do believe there are good arguments that she is a Mary Sue character. I'd happy argue my case for Ripley, Furiosa and most other popular female and also male leading characters NOT being Mary Sues, with specific examples in the first films they appear in. I'd be interested to see if someone could do the same with Rey, I'm not sure I could.

Mary Sue has become a colloquially nebulous term, rather loosely applied to a great variety of fictional characters. It's generally used now as a sneer term to indicate "character I dislike", which is rather a far cry from its original employment as "authorial self-insert". As no one likely imagines that Abrams and Kasdan secretly dream of being a hardscrabble 19 year old girl, we can safely assume Rey is not a "Mary Sue" in the traditional sense. Therefore we're left with the colloquial.

The most common reason given is "She's a Mary Sue because everything came too easily/she's too powerful". In which case she has good company among the legions of popular heroes from film and fantasy literature past. We could sit here all day detailing a list that would contain almost every super hero ever, a healthy portion of the Star Wars universe, and numerous popular film protagonists from Kirk to Neo to 80's action heroes. This is an uncomfortable comparison for some, because it ends up looking very much like Rey is catching flak specifically because of her vagina. And due to the inability of a great many people to have civil discussions around gender issues, that's a shit storm no one wants to get involved in.

A third possibility is that a goodly number of people saw Max Landis discussing the character (or more likely, just read his tweet...he liked the movie and liked Rey, as it happens...or at the very least liked Ridley) and have latched onto his "I don't understand where you go with the story from here" argument as regards Rey overcoming the antagonist and seemingly completing her hero's journey in Act I. To those people I would say "It is Act I" and "Maybe wait until Act III is complete before making authoritative statements about the quality of a completed work or character so you don't end up looking like a tit in 5 years when everything is wrapped up". Rey is a deliberately mysterious character half-written by a man who adores "mystery boxes". We know less about her than we knew about Keyser Soze 30 minutes into "The Usual Suspects". It's fine to be worried or curious, mysteries are supposed to provoke speculation. When folks start declaring that a film racing to become the 2nd highest grossing of all time has "ruined the franchise" because Rey was 0.6% more competent than Luke, they look either like morons who cannot grasp the simplest cinematic language, or like people with a pretty obvious and distasteful agenda.

PS - "Alien" Ripley is not really a "Mary Sue", but the arguments leveled at Rey could VERY easily be applied to "Aliens" Ripley. Has no military training, out-performs an entire squad of fully trained Marines.

PPS - I could do the Rey argument, if you wanted. As I stated, though, it's impossible to argue someone is or isn't a Mary Sue with such a vague working definition.

BloatedGuppy:
Alright, a few things I want to comment on pertaining to this news story and the discussion around it.

THERE ARE A LOT OF REY TOYS

This is not a Black Widow situation, where Disney specifically bought a property (Marvel) to court one demographic (young males) and ignore another (young females) because it already had it locked down (Disney Princesses). Your new Disney Star Wars was an egalitarian wet dream , and you can rest reasonably assured that this was deliberate. This is their mass market "catch as many as you can" IP. And this is Star Wars. LIKE THEY WEREN'T GOING TO MAKE TOYS OUT OF EVERYTHING.

One of the major, if not THE major reasons there aren't a lot of Rey toys is because Rey was very popular, even before the film launched and her toys were selling out.

http://www.mtv.com/news/2688307/female-star-wars-toys-selling-out/
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-30/-star-wars-toys-aren-t-just-for-boys-anymore-as-rey-takes-over

That might be of interest to Zontar and the "Rey is such a shitty character no one wanted a toy of her LUL" gang.

THE "THERE ARE NO REY TOYS" STUPIDITY SWIRLED AROUND TWO PRODUCTS

One was an action figure set containing Poe, Finn, Kylo Ren, Chewbacca, and two Storm Troopers (??). No Han in there either, it was just a random set of six figures. Jamie Ford tweeted a picture of this shrieking about "No Rey", as though Star Wars wasn't the biggest merchandising whore in the history of film franchises, and there wouldn't be Rey toys to find elsewhere. And some Very Excitable People read this on the internet and took it as gospel, because of course they did.

The other was Monopoly, which included 4 figures, two of which were Luke and Darth. Two things leap immediately to mind here. One is that their whole "we were trying to avoid spoilers" excuse is woefully transparent and feeble, and the second is that they really don't require an excuse. It's MONOPOLY. Who FUCKING CARES. There will probably be thirty seven more Force Awakens Monopolies released over the next two years, because Monopoly might be second only to Star Wars in the "whoring itself out" department. They'd make an all IG-88 Monopoly if they thought someone would buy it.

HASBRO PROBABLY THOUGHT FINN WAS THE CENTRAL CHARACTER

Thanks to the film's deliberately misleading marketing. Who knows when these stupid Monopolies went into production. Very little thought likely went into them. Because, you know, Monopoly. Just the fact Luke and Darth are in there and there are only four tokens total tells you how much love and care this product got. It's a lazy cash-in on the new film. Some Taiwanese factory probably had one still from the film to work on five months ago.

TO THE PEOPLE OH SO PREDICTABLY WHINING ABOUT TEH SJWS

Please do give it a rest. You're as bad as, if not actively worse, than the people you are condemning. Just a bunch of outrage addicts, symbiotically generating drama.

I enjoy your post. But please. You don't need to pull the false equivalence nonsense. The people saying 'Hey, your conspiracy theory about Hasbro not including Rey because she's a woman? Yeah, that crazy' aren't as bad as the people saying 'Patrairchal Hasbro aren't including Rey because she's a woman! Remove the black guy and put her in!!!'

Seriously. You really don't have to do that to be taken seriously. Like, you're effectively saying that if we dare suggest that there is a group of crazy people consistently pushing bizarre, paranoid delusions into mainstream discussion, then we're just as bad as said people. That really doesn't work.

Jadak:
eh, this is still dumb. Well, complaining about a lack of characters is fine, it's the accusations of sexism that are dumb.

I get people wanting Rey, but I come on, there's only 4 playable pieces, and it's already split between 1 from each trilogy and 1 from each faction. There was literally one piece that could be swapped out for Rey in that model, and then we'd just be left with accusations of racism instead.

The only reasonable complaint is that only having 4 pieces is shit to begin with. Should have been at least 8, or new trilogy only characters if they really wanted to stick with 4.

In any case, perfect opportunity for them to capitalize on expansion sets of characters.

What accusations of sexism? The main post, its content, and the comments all leading up to yours, never once say anything about actual sexism being involved. Which begs the question: why are 'You', trying to bring sexism into the discussion here, when the purpose of this news was to express the frustration involved at Hasbro not including the 'Main' character of the newest Star Wars movie - notice that they said 'Main', and not 'Female'.

GarouxBloodline:

Jadak:
eh, this is still dumb. Well, complaining about a lack of characters is fine, it's the accusations of sexism that are dumb.

I get people wanting Rey, but I come on, there's only 4 playable pieces, and it's already split between 1 from each trilogy and 1 from each faction. There was literally one piece that could be swapped out for Rey in that model, and then we'd just be left with accusations of racism instead.

The only reasonable complaint is that only having 4 pieces is shit to begin with. Should have been at least 8, or new trilogy only characters if they really wanted to stick with 4.

In any case, perfect opportunity for them to capitalize on expansion sets of characters.

What accusations of sexism? The main post, its content, and the comments all leading up to yours, never once say anything about actual sexism being involved. Which begs the question: why are 'You', trying to bring sexism into the discussion here, when the purpose of this news was to express the frustration involved at Hasbro not including the 'Main' character of the newest Star Wars movie - notice that they said 'Main', and not 'Female'.

To quote noted philosopher Anita Sarkeesian, these things do not exist in a vacuum. And there absolutely are accusations being made that this is due to sexism. Even Abrams calling it outrageous, and the author suggesting Hasbro are trying to 'get away with it' is very obvious moral condemnation. Why even deny this?

Chriss_m:
I enjoy your post. But please. You don't need to pull the false equivalence nonsense. The people saying 'Hey, your conspiracy theory about Hasbro not including Rey because she's a woman? Yeah, that crazy' aren't as bad as the people saying 'Patrairchal Hasbro aren't including Rey because she's a woman! Remove the black guy and put her in!!!'

They're not saying that. I'm saying that. I'm saying "It's ridiculous". They're bibbling and jibbling about SJWs and Feminazis and the corruption of entertainment media by ideological fanaticism, as they have been for a few years now. Not remotely a false equivalency. If you can't see the "crazy" in both parties, you're not looking very hard.

Chriss_m:
Like, you're effectively saying that if we dare suggest that there is a group of crazy people consistently pushing bizarre, paranoid delusions into mainstream discussion, then we're just as bad as said people. That really doesn't work.

Who is the "we" here? Are you taking ownership for every paranoid nutcase who ever posted on an internet forum? Are you suggesting they all think with one mind?

There's a sane and sensible way to approach twitter/outrage drama. Ignore it, or scoff gently and move on with your life. Starting a counter-drama is not any kind of solution.

BloatedGuppy:

Chriss_m:
I enjoy your post. But please. You don't need to pull the false equivalence nonsense. The people saying 'Hey, your conspiracy theory about Hasbro not including Rey because she's a woman? Yeah, that crazy' aren't as bad as the people saying 'Patrairchal Hasbro aren't including Rey because she's a woman! Remove the black guy and put her in!!!'

They're not saying that. I'm saying that. I'm saying "It's ridiculous". They're bibbling and jibbling about SJWs and Feminazis and the corruption of entertainment media by ideological fanaticism, as they have been for a few years now. Not remotely a false equivalency. If you can't see the "crazy" in both parties, you're not looking very hard.

Chriss_m:
Like, you're effectively saying that if we dare suggest that there is a group of crazy people consistently pushing bizarre, paranoid delusions into mainstream discussion, then we're just as bad as said people. That really doesn't work.

Who is the "we" here? Are you taking ownership for every paranoid nutcase who ever posted on an internet forum? Are you suggesting they all think with one mind?

There's a sane and sensible way to approach twitter/outrage drama. Ignore it, or scoff gently and move on with your life. Starting a counter-drama is not any kind of solution.

No, I'm fitting myself right into the group of people saying that SJWs in the media stoked this outrage based on some paranoid conspiracy theory. And I can evidence that.

You say that starting a counter drama is not a solution, and to simply ignore it. Fair enough. But that's not a solution either. That's simply conceding the argument to the nutcases. Is there a case for Rey being included? Absolutely. She's the main character, for fuck sake. Should they be pressured to include her to bat away the moral condemnation? Absolutely not. This is not a civil rights battle. And people can't be afraid to say 'Hey, this weird toy drama thing is being motivated by ideologues' without being dismissed. It's a perfectly valid point of view, and it is easily supported by near enough any article you read on this whole thing.

BloatedGuppy:

Small Moon Rabbit:
I personally don't dislike Rey as a character, however I do believe there are good arguments that she is a Mary Sue character. I'd happy argue my case for Ripley, Furiosa and most other popular female and also male leading characters NOT being Mary Sues, with specific examples in the first films they appear in. I'd be interested to see if someone could do the same with Rey, I'm not sure I could.

Mary Sue has become a colloquially nebulous term, rather loosely applied to a great variety of fictional characters. It's generally used now as a sneer term to indicate "character I dislike", which is rather a far cry from its original employment as "authorial self-insert". As no one likely imagines that Abrams and Kasdan secretly dream of being a hardscrabble 19 year old girl, we can safely assume Rey is not a "Mary Sue" in the traditional sense. Therefore we're left with the colloquial.

The most common reason given is "She's a Mary Sue because everything came too easily/she's too powerful". In which case she has good company among the legions of popular heroes from film and fantasy literature past. We could sit here all day detailing a list that would contain almost every super hero ever, a healthy portion of the Star Wars universe, and numerous popular film protagonists from Kirk to Neo to 80's action heroes. This is an uncomfortable comparison for some, because it ends up looking very much like Rey is catching flak specifically because of her vagina. And due to the inability of a great many people to have civil discussions around gender issues, that's a shit storm no one wants to get involved in.

A third possibility is that a goodly number of people saw Max Landis discussing the character (or more likely, just read his tweet...he liked the movie and liked Rey, as it happens...or at the very least liked Ridley) and have latched onto his "I don't understand where you go with the story from here" argument as regards Rey overcoming the antagonist and seemingly completing her hero's journey in Act I. To those people I would say "It is Act I" and "Maybe wait until Act III is complete before making authoritative statements about the quality of a completed work or character so you don't end up looking like a tit in 5 years when everything is wrapped up". Rey is a deliberately mysterious character half-written by a man who adores "mystery boxes". We know less about her than we knew about Keyser Soze 30 minutes into "The Usual Suspects". It's fine to be worried or curious, mysteries are supposed to provoke speculation. When folks start declaring that a film racing to become the 2nd highest grossing of all time has "ruined the franchise" because Rey was 0.6% more competent than Luke, they look either like morons who cannot grasp the simplest cinematic language, or like people with a pretty obvious and distasteful agenda.

PS - "Alien" Ripley is not really a "Mary Sue", but the arguments leveled at Rey could VERY easily be applied to "Aliens" Ripley. Has no military training, out-performs an entire squad of fully trained Marines.

PPS - I could do the Rey argument, if you wanted. As I stated, though, it's impossible to argue someone is or isn't a Mary Sue with such a vague working definition.

I agree with most of what you have to say in your other post about the toys/merch and I agree largely with your points here as well, although I could take issue with a few of your examples, but this thread really isn't the place for that (yes yes my last post was WAY off topic).

As for the Mary Sue Rey thing, I'm sure you could make some good arguments. This film is written with future films in mind, so all the "overpowered" and "why can Rey do that?" complaints can be hand waved away with "it will be explained in a future film". I personally don't feel its very good film making but thats a personal opinion and doesn't invalidate the argument.

However I'm really not that invested in 'winning' any argument on this topic, as much as my last post implied otherwise. I can actually tolerate people with different opinions on a topic/film, which seems to be a rapidly diminishing trait on the internet today. It would just be nice to talk about this film and its characters without the implication that I'm sexist, racist, a butt hurt fanboy or a Hipster that hates everything, just because I had some problems with the film and its characters and shock horror actually wanted to talk about it. Also, I'm not accusing anyone in this thread of that, which is refreshing.

Big whoop, so she is only missing at the Monopoly and that group toy set or which other mechandise she was excluded from?

As far as I concern, I saw her among the toy figure sets (lol they were kinda misleading cos one of them had Kylo on a speeder bike) and she was part of these cup top figures from Cineworld (they didn't had Finn and yet they included Chewbacca and a snowtrooper in their set. Before you asked, the last two were BB8 and Kylo) so I don't see it much of an issue.

Small Moon Rabbit:
However I'm really not that invested in 'winning' any argument on this topic, as much as my last post implied otherwise. I can actually tolerate people with different opinions on a topic/film, which seems to be a rapidly diminishing trait on the internet today.

Amen to that, brother. If you ever want to have a civil discussion about the film, by all means hit me up.

Chriss_m:
You say that starting a counter drama is not a solution, and to simply ignore it. Fair enough. But that's not a solution either. That's simply conceding the argument to the nutcases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc

BloatedGuppy:
Alright, a few things I want to comment on pertaining to this news story and the discussion around it.

THERE ARE A LOT OF REY TOYS

This is not a Black Widow situation, where Disney specifically bought a property (Marvel) to court one demographic (young males) and ignore another (young females) because it already had it locked down (Disney Princesses). Your new Disney Star Wars was an egalitarian wet dream , and you can rest reasonably assured that this was deliberate. This is their mass market "catch as many as you can" IP. And this is Star Wars. LIKE THEY WEREN'T GOING TO MAKE TOYS OUT OF EVERYTHING.

One of the major, if not THE major reasons there aren't a lot of Rey toys is because Rey was very popular, even before the film launched and her toys were selling out.

http://www.mtv.com/news/2688307/female-star-wars-toys-selling-out/
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-30/-star-wars-toys-aren-t-just-for-boys-anymore-as-rey-takes-over

That might be of interest to Zontar and the "Rey is such a shitty character no one wanted a toy of her LUL" gang.

THE "THERE ARE NO REY TOYS" STUPIDITY SWIRLED AROUND TWO PRODUCTS

One was an action figure set containing Poe, Finn, Kylo Ren, Chewbacca, and two Storm Troopers (??). No Han in there either, it was just a random set of six figures. Jamie Ford tweeted a picture of this shrieking about "No Rey", as though Star Wars wasn't the biggest merchandising whore in the history of film franchises, and there wouldn't be Rey toys to find elsewhere. And some Very Excitable People read this on the internet and took it as gospel, because of course they did.

The other was Monopoly, which included 4 figures, two of which were Luke and Darth. Two things leap immediately to mind here. One is that their whole "we were trying to avoid spoilers" excuse is woefully transparent and feeble, and the second is that they really don't require an excuse. It's MONOPOLY. Who FUCKING CARES. There will probably be thirty seven more Force Awakens Monopolies released over the next two years, because Monopoly might be second only to Star Wars in the "whoring itself out" department. They'd make an all IG-88 Monopoly if they thought someone would buy it.

HASBRO PROBABLY THOUGHT FINN WAS THE CENTRAL CHARACTER

Thanks to the film's deliberately misleading marketing. Who knows when these stupid Monopolies went into production. Very little thought likely went into them. Because, you know, Monopoly. Just the fact Luke and Darth are in there and there are only four tokens total tells you how much love and care this product got. It's a lazy cash-in on the new film. Some Taiwanese factory probably had one still from the film to work on five months ago.

TO THE PEOPLE OH SO PREDICTABLY WHINING ABOUT TEH SJWS

Please do give it a rest. You're as bad as, if not actively worse, than the people you are condemning. Just a bunch of outrage addicts, symbiotically generating drama.

Thank you... fucking thank you. People want to turn this into another example of something to be aggrieved over. Feminists want to say Rey is being purposefully under produced. Anti Feminists want to say she's justifiably under sold because she's a mary sue. Its neither. Her toy is super popular and has been selling out. Its got nothing to do with either, its just star wars and shes a cool star wars character.

Also speaking to the idea of a mary sue. Rey isn't a mary sue, yet. If her somewhat ridiculous competence in force techniques isn't explained next film, than yes she'll be a mary sue. However I think that will actually be a core part of next film, especially given some of the things that were explained in the novelization of the book. If not though... yeah she'll be a very young character who was inexplicably talented in unrealistic ways and is universally praised and accepted by the powers at be. Having a mary sue isn't the worst, it's just kind of annoying. Harry Potter being a huge mary sue wasn't the reason those books kind of started sucking. So... meh I'll stop rambling and commend you sir for giving a good post responding to why this is a completely forced controversy, thank you.

Chriss_m:

GarouxBloodline:

Jadak:
eh, this is still dumb. Well, complaining about a lack of characters is fine, it's the accusations of sexism that are dumb.

I get people wanting Rey, but I come on, there's only 4 playable pieces, and it's already split between 1 from each trilogy and 1 from each faction. There was literally one piece that could be swapped out for Rey in that model, and then we'd just be left with accusations of racism instead.

The only reasonable complaint is that only having 4 pieces is shit to begin with. Should have been at least 8, or new trilogy only characters if they really wanted to stick with 4.

In any case, perfect opportunity for them to capitalize on expansion sets of characters.

What accusations of sexism? The main post, its content, and the comments all leading up to yours, never once say anything about actual sexism being involved. Which begs the question: why are 'You', trying to bring sexism into the discussion here, when the purpose of this news was to express the frustration involved at Hasbro not including the 'Main' character of the newest Star Wars movie - notice that they said 'Main', and not 'Female'.

To quote noted philosopher Anita Sarkeesian, these things do not exist in a vacuum. And there absolutely are accusations being made that this is due to sexism. Even Abrams calling it outrageous, and the author suggesting Hasbro are trying to 'get away with it' is very obvious moral condemnation. Why even deny this?

I deny nothing. What I have an issue with, are self-fulfilling prophecies inherent in these types of argument points. The reason why hot-topic issues such as racism and sexism become overbearing on forums such as The Escapist, is because people keep bringing it all up every single chance that they can find.

If the author had written in a biased enough manner to make the issue entirely about sexism, then I would understand your argument. But he did not, and up until your comment, sexism was never directly implied. So why exasperate it? Especially when the issue at hand has already been handled both professionally, and in a hasty manner?

It all boils down to the incessant need to start up drama/controversy, where it is not needed.

BloatedGuppy:

Small Moon Rabbit:
However I'm really not that invested in 'winning' any argument on this topic, as much as my last post implied otherwise. I can actually tolerate people with different opinions on a topic/film, which seems to be a rapidly diminishing trait on the internet today.

Amen to that, brother. If you ever want to have a civil discussion about the film, by all means hit me up.

Chriss_m:
You say that starting a counter drama is not a solution, and to simply ignore it. Fair enough. But that's not a solution either. That's simply conceding the argument to the nutcases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc

Thanks for that video. It was a good explanation of meme theory, clickbait, etc. And I do take the point. But, I would only argue back, and this will be my last post for now (you can have the last word if you wish), that there is already enough of these people to propagate and replicate their own delusions, that it really doesn't matter if we don't talk about it. Because there are just enough of them to enforce the changes they want based on their faulty reasoning. That's why I think it's important to be vocal with dissenting points of view.

Anyway, as I said, I enjoyed your post and think it was well argued.

To the above poster, please see my responses to BloatedGuppy, which I think lays out my argument well enough. Thanks.

GarouxBloodline:

What accusations of sexism? The main post, its content, and the comments all leading up to yours, never once say anything about actual sexism being involved. Which begs the question: why are 'You', trying to bring sexism into the discussion here, when the purpose of this news was to express the frustration involved at Hasbro not including the 'Main' character of the newest Star Wars movie - notice that they said 'Main', and not 'Female'.

Sexism is the only reason this got attention in the first place. This is follow up article covering JJ's response to that controversy, and he doesn't talk about that which is perfectly fine.

It's about sexism. I mean, are you fucking serious? This got covered everywhere by even non-nerd media, not including a 'main' character generates mild disappointment by a handful of die-hard Star Wars / Monopoly fans, not controversy. If that's all it was, we wouldn't still be talking about it because guess what, nobody gives a fuck about Monopoly pieces unless there's some sort of hot topic to go with it.

Look up any of the articles covering the original news, the accusation were about sexism. Sorry for assuming people would have been aware of previously established context when making my comment.

BloatedGuppy:
Alright, a few things I want to comment on pertaining to this news story and the discussion around it.

THERE ARE A LOT OF REY TOYS

This is not a Black Widow situation, where Disney specifically bought a property (Marvel) to court one demographic (young males) and ignore another (young females) because it already had it locked down (Disney Princesses). Your new Disney Star Wars was an egalitarian wet dream , and you can rest reasonably assured that this was deliberate. This is their mass market "catch as many as you can" IP. And this is Star Wars. LIKE THEY WEREN'T GOING TO MAKE TOYS OUT OF EVERYTHING.

One of the major, if not THE major reasons there aren't a lot of Rey toys is because Rey was very popular, even before the film launched and her toys were selling out.

http://www.mtv.com/news/2688307/female-star-wars-toys-selling-out/
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-30/-star-wars-toys-aren-t-just-for-boys-anymore-as-rey-takes-over

That might be of interest to Zontar and the "Rey is such a shitty character no one wanted a toy of her LUL" gang.

THE "THERE ARE NO REY TOYS" STUPIDITY SWIRLED AROUND TWO PRODUCTS

One was an action figure set containing Poe, Finn, Kylo Ren, Chewbacca, and two Storm Troopers (??). No Han in there either, it was just a random set of six figures. Jamie Ford tweeted a picture of this shrieking about "No Rey", as though Star Wars wasn't the biggest merchandising whore in the history of film franchises, and there wouldn't be Rey toys to find elsewhere. And some Very Excitable People read this on the internet and took it as gospel, because of course they did.

The other was Monopoly, which included 4 figures, two of which were Luke and Darth. Two things leap immediately to mind here. One is that their whole "we were trying to avoid spoilers" excuse is woefully transparent and feeble, and the second is that they really don't require an excuse. It's MONOPOLY. Who FUCKING CARES. There will probably be thirty seven more Force Awakens Monopolies released over the next two years, because Monopoly might be second only to Star Wars in the "whoring itself out" department. They'd make an all IG-88 Monopoly if they thought someone would buy it.

HASBRO PROBABLY THOUGHT FINN WAS THE CENTRAL CHARACTER

Thanks to the film's deliberately misleading marketing. Who knows when these stupid Monopolies went into production. Very little thought likely went into them. Because, you know, Monopoly. Just the fact Luke and Darth are in there and there are only four tokens total tells you how much love and care this product got. It's a lazy cash-in on the new film. Some Taiwanese factory probably had one still from the film to work on five months ago.

TO THE PEOPLE OH SO PREDICTABLY WHINING ABOUT TEH SJWS

Please do give it a rest. You're as bad as, if not actively worse, than the people you are condemning. Just a bunch of outrage addicts, symbiotically generating drama.

image

Quoted because it deserves to be.

Dead on, man.

Even if I disagree a bit on the SJW segment...because I do find it funny to see the continued backlash against these folks, but it's unnecessary here.

Just point them to Google and move on with your day. No need to go all reverse-witch-hunt.

Jadak:

GarouxBloodline:

What accusations of sexism? The main post, its content, and the comments all leading up to yours, never once say anything about actual sexism being involved. Which begs the question: why are 'You', trying to bring sexism into the discussion here, when the purpose of this news was to express the frustration involved at Hasbro not including the 'Main' character of the newest Star Wars movie - notice that they said 'Main', and not 'Female'.

Sexism is the only reason this got attention in the first place. This is follow up article covering JJ's response to that controversy, and he doesn't talk about that which is perfectly fine.

It's about sexism. I mean, are you fucking serious? This got covered everywhere by even non-nerd media, not including a 'main' character generates mild disappointment by a handful of die-hard Star Wars / Monopoly fans, not controversy. If that's all it was, we wouldn't still be talking about it because guess what, nobody gives a fuck about Monopoly pieces unless there's some sort of hot topic to go with it.

Look up any of the articles covering the original news, the accusation were about sexism. Sorry for assuming people would have been aware of previously established context when making my comment.

Emotional red herrings are not really all that enticing to me, but I will respond, nevertheless. The actual context involved here, is not the one that you brought up; instead, the context can be seen if you re-read everything that I wrote, in which I stated that I never denied that sexism is at least some small part of the overall controversy.

My argument, is that the author went through pains to keep this article neutral, without making any allegations involving sexism, which means that this topic had a legitimate chance to discuss the actual facts of the issue, without bringing in the same, tired arguments seen on other news' sites. So, in regards to those that keep bringing up the same, tired arguments, thanks for helping make The Escapist a little more like all of the other news' sites.

Personally, it does not matter how many people search for their favourite boogeymen, or how hard they have to squint to consistently see their respective boogeymen, which, in this case, is sexism, because that is an allegation that really has no depth to it, especially when people pretend as if they have an inside knowledge of the manufacturing processes that led to this "Incident."

The lack of a main character is kind of a big deal regardless of sexism issues. But why the frak does monopoly only come with 4 characters? I'm pretty sure the prequel version I got years ago had at least double that.

Dominic Crossman:

Greymarch10:
Rey isnt being ignored by manufacturers because she is female. She is being ignored because she is a boring, Mary Sue character who doesnt inspire female nor male children. The more time passes, the more people will get over the buzz, and realize Rey isnt really a Star Wars-worthy character.

Both Luke Skywalker and Han Solo are more Mary Sues then Rey.[/spoiler]

Luke Skywalker? The guy who, in the first movie, had to be bailed out of a Sand Person attack and bar fight by Obi Wan, had to be saved from Darth Vader by Han Solo, and who's most impressive acts were blocking a droid's shots with Ibi Wan's guidance and making a shot that anyone in the Rebellion should've been capable of?

Or perhaps you were talking about Episode V Luke where he got side swiped by a Wampa and nearly eaten, got showed up by a muppet in the force, and then recived a shiny ass beatdown by his Papa then ended with him beaten, broken, and lacking a hand and his most impressive feats were sneak attacking an AT-AT and learning how to jump good?

Or Episode 6 Luke who FINALLY figured out the mind Trick and became badass, beat Vader, and then proceeded to get tazered by Palpatine to the point Vader had to save him?

And Han? The guy who, in the first movie, had an attitude that basically ensured that the only reason anyone wanted to work with him was because of his ship and piloting skills, and had to be bribed to save Leia or go back to help the Rebellion? Who had his best friend betray him to The Empire and got frozen in carbonite to be sold to a slug thing? Who had to be saved by freaking EWOKS!?

You're REALLY going to claim that these two are bigger Sues than the character who figured out three force tricks in one day with no training, can fly a ship as unwieldy as The Falcon through ruined Star Destroyers while pulling sick tricks with no co-pilot, had a Lightsaber that should've been freaking GONE call out to her, escapes from inside the Remnant base with no difficulty and wanders around with no one noticing her, and is well liked by pretty much every one of the good guys the moment they see her? Freaking REALLY!?

SonOfVoorhees:
I bet if they made a gold bikini version of Rey it would sell like hot cakes.

To be honestk, I rather doubt it.

image

She's honestly not that attractive to me to be quite frank. Callie Fisher and Natalie Portman had a LOT more going on in my book.

Doesn't help that Rey has barely more facial expression than Bella Swan. Seriously, the most variety I got from my Google image search was that Angry Duck Face she made when either chasing Finn or running from the Remnant on the desert planet.

Dominic Crossman:
snip

To be fair, that whole sequence was sorta rushed and thrown in because of scheduling and Hamill getting into a car accident somewhat recently so they had to have some kind of reason for the injuries to be seen on-screen.

Also, c'mon, he trusted someone he knew had a tiny bit of a grudge against him in Lando and screwed up there by going to Cloud City. Had to be saved by Leia after being frozen, and then spent half of Jedi just sitting around recovering from being thawed out.

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