Study: Robots Expected to Replace 5 Million Jobs By 2020

 Pages 1 2 NEXT
 

Study: Robots Expected to Replace 5 Million Jobs By 2020

I, Robot

Administrative and office jobs are expected to be hardest hit by a wave of automation that is expected to gradually hit the work force by 2020.

Advances are being made quickly in the field of robotics and automation, and while many of these achievements have the tech industry patting itself on the back, these advancements are expected to put a major dent in the human workforce by 2020.

According to a recent study by the World Economic Forum, more than five million jobs could be lost to a robot work force, primarily in the office and administrative field. The study also expects that further robotic inroads will be made in the fields of manufacturing and production, areas that already have a strong automated presence.

The study claims that this "fourth industrial revolution" is coming because of the major advancements in "genetics, artificial intelligence, robotics, nanotechnology, 3D printing, and biotechnology." About two million human jobs are expected to be gained in smaller job fields, but about 7.1 million jobs will be lost to AI workers, for a net replacement of about five million jobs.

The 150-plus page report is full of charts and graphs looking at all fields of employment. The report is in preparation for the annual meeting of the World Economic Forum starting tomorrow in Switzerland. The Forum has initiatives in place for such public good endeavors as Employment, Skills and Human Capital; Environment and Resource Security; Food Security and Agriculture; Future of the Global Financial System; Future of the Internet; and more.

Source: World Economic Forum, via Digital Trends

Permalink

It's almost as though we need to stop assuming that there are always enough jobs for everybody and that anyone who doesn't have a job must just be lazy...

I like the idea that we're leveraging our tech, but there's going to need to be a shift in the way our economy works to accommodate it. If there are fewer workers, products can be made more cheaply, but will this drive down the cost of basic commodities or will the companies just focus on maximizing profits for the few humans running everything at the top?

Maybe I'm being overly simplistic, and maybe things will adjust as they did in the last three industrial revolutions, I'm not sure I know enough to say.

Great, now more pointless job titles will need to be invented to fulfill the desires of the ever-bloating sweaty cannibalistic behemoth of capitalism. Endless economic growth is not viable. This such system will be under desperate strain unless we rethink our future and stop letting short-sighted entrepreneurs take power over our laws and lands.

DocImpossible452:
will this drive down the cost of basic commodities or will the companies just focus on maximizing profits for the few humans running everything at the top?

I can say with reasonable certainty that the people on top always need more, I highly doubt the savings will be passed onto us unless it becomes absolutely essential.

so whats the big deal?
i mean, 5 million sounds much, but on a worldwide scale its not that bad.
and the introduction of automatic robots in manufacturing cost probably way more then 5 mil jobs.
also, this ai has to be created in the first place, and maintained, and upgraded.
that will keep people busy until it can do all that on its own. but until then.... well i think we have enough time to think about a solution

syl3r:
so whats the big deal?
i mean, 5 million sounds much, but on a worldwide scale its not that bad.
and the introduction of automatic robots in manufacturing cost probably way more then 5 mil jobs.
also, this ai has to be created in the first place, and maintained, and upgraded.
that will keep people busy until it can do all that on its own. but until then.... well i think we have enough time to think about a solution

the deal is that its just the beginning, the sorts of figures ive seen are upwards of 40% of jobs no longer needing a human to do them

pookie101:

the deal is that its just the beginning, the sorts of figures ive seen are upwards of 40% of jobs no longer needing a human to do them

Self-driving cars are probably somewhere in those statistics. From what I've read, in the US alone there's something like 5 million driving jobs in the transportation industry. If When self-driving cars start seeing widespread use, we're going to see a large portion of those 5 million drivers becoming unemployed. Particularly when more and more of the low skill jobs are becoming automated, it's only going to become more difficult for those displaced workers to find jobs they have the qualifications for.

Hell, even the market of skilled jobs isn't doing so hot. A number of my friends who're graduating with degrees have resigned to the fact that they probably need to get another degree because there's no jobs in their field. These aren't fluffy degrees either, they're stuff like geology, physics and medical imaging technology maintenance

Then go on strike by 2021...

and rebel against humans in 2022.

Humans are screwing over humans for more profit. Capitalism BITCH!!

Weren't administrative and jobs replaced years ago by ANSWERING MACHINES?!

But seriously, the jobs themselves used a lot of outdated systems like Rolodex, filing cabinets, and fax machines. All those three easily replaced by a single computer (add an external storage drive for file backup on a 2-12x daily rotation depending on the update frequency and importance of the documents).

And most the administrative and office jobs went to females. Reasons behind this being sexist, of course because the male boss liked to have a figure to look at. Yes it was sexist and chauvinistic, but such is life. Now days with feminist movements, lawsuits heavily weighing against sexual harassment at work, and female bosses it changes things (thankfully for the better). But better work conditions then finds that tech beats out people, and thus the job loss trickles outward.

Also, what with 64 people owning over 50% of the world's wealth (yep, only 64 people own more than 3.5 billion people have combined), it is of no surprise that they're once again cutting middleclass and lowerclass jobs just so that they can themselves save more money in the process. Sickening.

Xsjadoblayde:
Great, now more pointless job titles will need to be invented to fulfill the desires of the ever-bloating sweaty cannibalistic behemoth of capitalism. Endless economic growth is not viable. This such system will be under desperate strain unless we rethink our future and stop letting short-sighted entrepreneurs take power over our laws and lands.

The problem isn't JUST Capitalism. The problem is also personal responsibility on the social construct by individuals.

Basically put into a simpler term:
~~~~~~People need to stop screwing and popping out more babies than they themselves can economically support!

That is the underlying issue with a lot of countries right now. US is especially susceptible to this because for new mothers there are programs that say "taxpayers will pay for your child for quite a few years from birth on!" such as WIC, Welfare, and Foodstamps. Hate to bring in something so morally questionable to other people, but abortion might be the right answer to many who are just unfit to support another living being brought into this world. Before the fetus develops, before it becomes its own being that is more than just a cluster of cells, before the brain is mostly formed, that is a time to decide "this isn't right" and be done with it.

pookie101:

syl3r:
so whats the big deal?
i mean, 5 million sounds much, but on a worldwide scale its not that bad.
and the introduction of automatic robots in manufacturing cost probably way more then 5 mil jobs.
also, this ai has to be created in the first place, and maintained, and upgraded.
that will keep people busy until it can do all that on its own. but until then.... well i think we have enough time to think about a solution

the deal is that its just the beginning, the sorts of figures ive seen are upwards of 40% of jobs no longer needing a human to do them.

Cue the na?ve responses of "Yay! More time for arts, poetry and leisure!"

Unless the economy adjusts and the concept of social welfare shifts, we won't find ways to keep feeding those of us whose proficiencies have been or will be rendered obsolete.

Parasondox:
Then go on strike by 2021...

and rebel against humans in 2022.

Humans are screwing over humans for more profit. Capitalism BITCH!!

And then the robots will form their own nation, called 01, which will outcompete every other nation and drive the human economy into the dust. Then we'll nuke the crap out of them, creating a bunch of EMPs, which can and will wreck their electronic shit. There will be no Machine War, no one is gonna blot out the sun and humanity will not be turned into batteries for the bots.

So, sadly no awesome kung fu fights in a virtual world.

You have to remember this is might not a will situation and a lot these kind of reports use trend data without looking at limiting factors of those trends. One of the big limiting factors is the lack of flexibility. In the service sector businesses expand and contract quickly according to the demand of the economic cycle. Robots take long term capital investment so your are betting on fixed level demand with robots. Its easier to higher and fire people and then spend large sums of money up front on AIs and robots.

One of the things that is driving investment is that many developed nations are facing demographic crashes. Japan has the worst problem with low birth rates and a long living population and it is the leading investor in this area. They simply won't have enough people of working age to fill the jobs that keep the economy functioning. Many Western European nations have less severe problem but in 25-30 years time increasing automation may be the only way to keep the economy functioning. Even China is facing a demographic crash in the next 30 years. So in the longer term, the lack of people to do the jobs will drive use of robots and AIs.

Here is a possible upside to automatizing everything:

Eventually the majority of us won't need to work, and probably will get paid not to. Because everything will be so easy/cheap to produce and sell, so any country utilizing a majority of robotic/computer run jobs will be making more money and faster.

In return, anyone who actually goes out and gets a education in the field of maintaining or even creating these machines will actually be getting paid pretty damn well. Plus trade jobs in manufacturing or repairing machines in the field (so welders and mechanics) will also start making some ridiculous cash.

Which hopefully would mean that people going out and learning trade skills, or attending universities would actually be the ones making lots of money (which at the current moment is kind of a laughable fantasy we tell ourselves to try and ease the burden of knowing that crushing debt will follow us to the grave because we wasted upwards of 3 years spending money we didn't have for the CHANCE that there might be a job waiting for us on the other side...which there usually isn't for most students).

But of course these changes would obviously take alot of time, and could have drastic outcomes for varying countries as well as unforeseen problems. But in the end, we kinda need a new industrial revolution since our current world economies are crashing and burning in their current state.

Time to break out one of my favourite YouTube videos:

"The future is a foreign country, and you aren't welcome there."

Maze1125:
It's almost as though we need to stop assuming that there are always enough jobs for everybody and that anyone who doesn't have a job must just be lazy...

Well it's not the case as it is. Right now the biggest problem is a refusal by people of my generation to enter fields that are open. Right now there are a million people with a degree in psychology in the US, many of whom are unemployed due to the fact that supply massively outstrips demand for people with such job qualifications, while there are a full 3 million job openings that is actually pushing the wages of whole industries up due to supply being hire-right-out-of-trade-schools/high-schools and still not being able to meet demand.

The problem isn't that there are or are not jobs, it's that people are training for the wrong ones. It's to the point where there are whole degrees which exist only to teach people how to get said degrees.

Mechanization has always been taking jobs away from people, this is something that has been complained about for over 200 years now. "Machines are going to replace us all, there's no possible way everyone can have a job with how things are going" is a complain that has been around for literally a century longer then any human has been alive.

SteewpidZombie:
Here is a possible upside to automatizing everything:

Eventually the majority of us won't need to work, and probably will get paid not to. Because everything will be so easy/cheap to produce and sell, so any country utilizing a majority of robotic/computer run jobs will be making more money and faster.

In return, anyone who actually goes out and gets a education in the field of maintaining or even creating these machines will actually be getting paid pretty damn well. Plus trade jobs in manufacturing or repairing machines in the field (so welders and mechanics) will also start making some ridiculous cash.

Which hopefully would mean that people going out and learning trade skills, or attending universities would actually be the ones making lots of money (which at the current moment is kind of a laughable fantasy we tell ourselves to try and ease the burden of knowing that crushing debt will follow us to the grave because we wasted upwards of 3 years spending money we didn't have for the CHANCE that there might be a job waiting for us on the other side...which there usually isn't for most students).

But of course these changes would obviously take alot of time, and could have drastic outcomes for varying countries as well as unforeseen problems. But in the end, we kinda need a new industrial revolution since our current world economies are crashing and burning in their current state.

Oh I agree that were heading towards a much better economic system.... But it's that change period thats really going to suck.

I mean were going to be losing ALL the truck-driver positions. That's like a huge thing right there. Sure maybe it's better for all of us in the long run, but not if your Jeff The Truck Driver trying to pay your bills.

It's the main reason I'm trying to get out of debt as fast as I can. Shit is going to hit the fan and the better situation I'm in the more likely I'll survive.

Deathfish15:
Weren't administrative and jobs replaced years ago by ANSWERING MACHINES?!

But seriously, the jobs themselves used a lot of outdated systems like Rolodex, filing cabinets, and fax machines. All those three easily replaced by a single computer (add an external storage drive for file backup on a 2-12x daily rotation depending on the update frequency and importance of the documents).

And most the administrative and office jobs went to females. Reasons behind this being sexist, of course because the male boss liked to have a figure to look at. Yes it was sexist and chauvinistic, but such is life. Now days with feminist movements, lawsuits heavily weighing against sexual harassment at work, and female bosses it changes things (thankfully for the better). But better work conditions then finds that tech beats out people, and thus the job loss trickles outward.

Also, what with 64 people owning over 50% of the world's wealth (yep, only 64 people own more than 3.5 billion people have combined), it is of no surprise that they're once again cutting middleclass and lowerclass jobs just so that they can themselves save more money in the process. Sickening.

Xsjadoblayde:
Great, now more pointless job titles will need to be invented to fulfill the desires of the ever-bloating sweaty cannibalistic behemoth of capitalism. Endless economic growth is not viable. This such system will be under desperate strain unless we rethink our future and stop letting short-sighted entrepreneurs take power over our laws and lands.

The problem isn't JUST Capitalism. The problem is also personal responsibility on the social construct by individuals.

Basically put into a simpler term:
~~~~~~People need to stop screwing and popping out more babies than they themselves can economically support!

That is the underlying issue with a lot of countries right now. US is especially susceptible to this because for new mothers there are programs that say "taxpayers will pay for your child for quite a few years from birth on!" such as WIC, Welfare, and Foodstamps. Hate to bring in something so morally questionable to other people, but abortion might be the right answer to many who are just unfit to support another living being brought into this world. Before the fetus develops, before it becomes its own being that is more than just a cluster of cells, before the brain is mostly formed, that is a time to decide "this isn't right" and be done with it.

The US and most of the first world is in no way overpopulated. On the contrary, an issue we're already starting to have is as life expectancy rises and birth rates lower many countries will have a massive population of retired older people with a much smaller population of working age people to support them. It's why China is repealing its one family, one child law

Zontar:

Maze1125:
It's almost as though we need to stop assuming that there are always enough jobs for everybody and that anyone who doesn't have a job must just be lazy...

Well it's not the case as it is. Right now the biggest problem is a refusal by people of my generation to enter fields that are open. Right now there are a million people with a degree in psychology in the US, many of whom are unemployed due to the fact that supply massively outstrips demand for people with such job qualifications, while there are a full 3 million job openings that is actually pushing the wages of whole industries up due to supply being hire-right-out-of-trade-schools/high-schools and still not being able to meet demand.

The problem isn't that there are or are not jobs, it's that people are training for the wrong ones. It's to the point where there are whole degrees which exist only to teach people how to get said degrees.

Mechanization has always been taking jobs away from people, this is something that has been complained about for over 200 years now. "Machines are going to replace us all, there's no possible way everyone can have a job with how things are going" is a complain that has been around for literally a century longer then any human has been alive.

It doesn't help that we lie to people from an early age, "Follow your dreams!" we say. All things are possible, we say. Without disclosing that, yeah but it takes a lot of work and a shit ton of luck.

If I could tell anything to the kids just going into school now I'd tell them, forget your dreams. GET PAID. You can always do that thing you want to do later.

Wow, I've got to say I'm sincerely impressed. This many posts and not a single "They took our jobs!" joke/reference.

Bravo, my fellow Escapists. Bravo.

I never tire of people who complain about capitalism mindlessly.

Capitalism: an economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and the creation of goods and services for profit. Central characteristics of capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labour and competitive markets.

Clearly we'd all be better off without any of those things. I mean it's not like every attempt at a communist country hasn't ended in failure and genocide (or very close). Yay Communism.

Also kudos to that one guy that blames overpopulation. You do realize that only a few countries have positive population growth, if it wasn't for immigration the populations of every every first world country in the world would be shrinking. Japan as an example seems to be trying to half their population by next gen.

Judging by the comments on this thread, the biggest threat is ignorance of political and economic systems.

Not a bad thing of you ask me. It's not like we smash all the tractors because we'd have more farm workers without them. Well it might be a bad thing under capitalism, people will lose their jobs and be deprived of their livelihood. But it would be a good thing if we use this to transfer ourselves to another economic system that allows everyone access to a good standard of living. Without a majority of people partaking in wage labor and using those wages to purchase commodities capitalism can't survive. And if businesses refuse to mechanize, they'll go out of business as they're unable to compete with those that do.

Meh. I've been seeing similar doom-and-gloom reports since the early 1970s. I'll believe it when I see it.

I been hearing "robots will replace jobs" my whole life, well which jobs. As others have said above, there are some jobs that a real-life robot made within our grand children's lifetimes with never be able to perform. Some of them require human judgement calls and flexibility of the human mind and body that can't be replicated.

There is also the fact that as more machines are brought in to streamline production, more machines will exist to be worn out and repaired/replaced. Even when engineered to be robust in industrial environments, these machines don't last long without some kind of attention. You may someday see drones coming along to do minor preventative maintenance on their plastic brethren, but diagnosis, complex disassembly, and repair will be done by fleshy fingers and a mind that can adapt to the the random and sometimes bizarre situations at hand. If you work on an assembly line, it might be a good idea to either start learning how other processes in the plant work, show your bosses you can join the maintenance team with little extra training, or try to go to school to learning how to fix your (future?) robot coworkers.

--

And also as said above, many of those career fields are have high demand for newcomers. I've been told several times that the field I'm about to jump into has more workers retiring than the companies can recruit (and, boy, are they trying on that recruiting part).

People just don't know about the needs in these fields, don't want to go into them, or can't find the time to get the necessary schooling for them. That last part is probably the biggest issue, especially with the way some colleges have their schedules set up. Companies everywhere now want degrees or trade certification in the fields they are hiring for. It's even true with the businesses that are hurting for employees, simply because they don't want to sink any money into training someone who may go off to another job within a couple years.

--

Another way to look at this is computers (and other machines) themselves have also assisted jobs (both skilled/educated and non-skilled) that they can't truly replace, to the point that less of those positions are required in a single company because of the increase in efficiency. The requirements that machines just can not meet will keep those job markets from completely disappearing, but growth in technology will limit them.

Similarly, there are examples of two different jobs with similar responsibilities, but one has lower wages and experience requirements. Locally for me at least, the hospitals and clinics are hiring less nurses and instead bringing in medical assistants, which can do most of what a nurse can do. That way they can have full teams that cost less than the old methods. Business are learning new ways to cut costs everyday. It up to the workforce to adapt (and revolt if things get really shady).

Stupidity:
I never tire of people who complain about capitalism mindlessly.

Capitalism: an economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and the creation of goods and services for profit. Central characteristics of capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labour and competitive markets.

Clearly we'd all be better off without any of those things. I mean it's not like every attempt at a communist country hasn't ended in failure and genocide (or very close). Yay Communism.

I never tire of people who brush aside any criticism of capitalism with complaints about communism. Like there isn't any kind of midpoint between the two systems.

Deathfish15:

The problem isn't JUST Capitalism. The problem is also personal responsibility on the social construct by individuals.

Basically put into a simpler term:
~~~~~~People need to stop screwing and popping out more babies than they themselves can economically support!

That is the underlying issue with a lot of countries right now. US is especially susceptible to this because for new mothers there are programs that say "taxpayers will pay for your child for quite a few years from birth on!" such as WIC, Welfare, and Foodstamps.

Honestly, it's the other way around. Society needs to do a better job of taking care of its people. The US, for being a developed country, has such an awful system for taking care of its citizens that it creates more problems than it solves. Time and time again science shows that people who are in a safe environment provide a much greater benefit to society as well as the economy. The opposite creates unskilled people without many other options than 'being a drain' all the way to being an active force against society through criminal activity.

People need to stop viewing people as dirty, needy masses and realize that human individuals are resources that can be utilized to create a better world for everyone.

Hairless Mammoth:
I been hearing "robots will replace jobs" my whole life, well which jobs. As others have said above, there are some jobs that a real-life robot made within our grand children's lifetimes with never be able to perform. Some of them require human judgement calls and flexibility of the human mind and body that can't be replicated.

And by the time we get the sapient AI capable of doing these things, the person making use of them will have the same issues to deal with as they have when hiring humans anyway.

Stupidity:
I never tire of people who complain about capitalism mindlessly.

Capitalism: an economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and the creation of goods and services for profit. Central characteristics of capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labour and competitive markets.

Clearly we'd all be better off without any of those things. I mean it's not like every attempt at a communist country hasn't ended in failure and genocide (or very close). Yay Communism.

Also kudos to that one guy that blames overpopulation. You do realize that only a few countries have positive population growth, if it wasn't for immigration the populations of every every first world country in the world would be shrinking. Japan as an example seems to be trying to half their population by next gen.

Judging by the comments on this thread, the biggest threat is ignorance of political and economic systems.

It's much easier to polarise people if you play to the ignorant fallacy of their being no middle ground. A capitalism vs. communism debate never gets very far. Moderation is key. Are we all supposed to pretend that:

1. Western style capitalsim is flawless.
2. The ONLY alternative is live in United Soviet States of the World?

And what are we saying about population growth? Yes true in a lot of first world countries the population, as described purely by birth, is not increasing by very much. But we would be ignorant fools if we were only to look at the first world right?

To put things in perspective in 1916 (so 100 years ago) the world population was around 1.8 billion. As of today it stands at 7.4 billion. So in other words in the last 100 years the population of our planet has QUADRUPLED. UN estimates vary but a moderate one is that by 2100 the population will be a little over 10 billion.

And you dont think that overpopulation is an issue?

SaneAmongInsane:

It doesn't help that we lie to people from an early age, "Follow your dreams!" we say. All things are possible, we say. Without disclosing that, yeah but it takes a lot of work and a shit ton of luck.

If I could tell anything to the kids just going into school now I'd tell them, forget your dreams. GET PAID. You can always do that thing you want to do later.

Yeah thats a point that needs to be made more often. People grow up these days with a culture that tells them that they are really important and the world revolves around them with very little practical advice of how to deal with adult life. Even more so that they are going to be competing for jobs with Sanjay and Fang, whose grandparents were peasants working the land and trying to get far away as possible from extreme poverty as quickly as possible.

Shamanic Rhythm:

Stupidity:
I never tire of people who complain about capitalism mindlessly.

Capitalism: an economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and the creation of goods and services for profit. Central characteristics of capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labour and competitive markets.

Clearly we'd all be better off without any of those things. I mean it's not like every attempt at a communist country hasn't ended in failure and genocide (or very close). Yay Communism.

I never tire of people who brush aside any criticism of capitalism with complaints about communism. Like there isn't any kind of midpoint between the two systems.

That's because there isnt one. Capitalism works because of the decisions made by millions about what they want to buy. As soon as substitute the choice of millions with the choice of few then success or failure becomes about you ability to get a positive decision from politicians not the merits of what you are selling. Capitalism works because it puts money into goods and services that people actually want instead of what some people think they should want.

Mr_Spanky:

It's much easier to polarise people if you play to the ignorant fallacy of their being no middle ground. A capitalism vs. communism debate never gets very far. Moderation is key. Are we all supposed to pretend that:

1. Western style capitalsim is flawless.
2. The ONLY alternative is live in United Soviet States of the World?

And what are we saying about population growth? Yes true in a lot of first world countries the population, as described purely by birth, is not increasing by very much. But we would be ignorant fools if we were only to look at the first world right?

To put things in perspective in 1916 (so 100 years ago) the world population was around 1.8 billion. As of today it stands at 7.4 billion. So in other words in the last 100 years the population of our planet has QUADRUPLED. UN estimates vary but a moderate one is that by 2100 the population will be a little over 10 billion.

And you don't think that overpopulation is an issue?

I think that the most capitalist countries in the world have the lowest birth rates. So you shouldn't imply capitalism is making overpopulation worse.

Also, I never implied capitalism was flawless, certainly not as it is practiced today, what I said was that it's protesters on this forum come off as spectacularly ignorant of what capitalism even is and the millions of people who have been enslaved and murdered by communist governments in the glorious battle to bring communism to the people.

Deathfish15:

The problem isn't JUST Capitalism. The problem is also personal responsibility on the social construct by individuals.

Basically put into a simpler term:
~~~~~~People need to stop screwing and popping out more babies than they themselves can economically support!

That is the underlying issue with a lot of countries right now. US is especially susceptible to this because for new mothers there are programs that say "taxpayers will pay for your child for quite a few years from birth on!" such as WIC, Welfare, and Foodstamps. Hate to bring in something so morally questionable to other people, but abortion might be the right answer to many who are just unfit to support another living being brought into this world. Before the fetus develops, before it becomes its own being that is more than just a cluster of cells, before the brain is mostly formed, that is a time to decide "this isn't right" and be done with it.

Well yes, the population growth is a constant issue, that goes without saying. Better education on sex, contraception and bloody religion would be a start for many. Parts of South America and other less developed countries have certainly an issue with denying abortion, which will need to be addressed, if only for the wellbeing of young girls in the grips of sexual violence within own families/social groups. The policing of such matters, and indeed general population growth would be another matter to consider.

Stupidity:

I think that the most capitalist countries in the world have the lowest birth rates. So you shouldn't imply capitalism is making overpopulation worse.

Also, I never implied capitalism was flawless, certainly not as it is practiced today, what I said was that it's protesters on this forum come off as spectacularly ignorant of what capitalism even is and the millions of people who have been enslaved and murdered by communist governments in the glorious battle to bring communism to the people.

It is not a matter of solely capitalism vs communism, why does the US seem intent on pushing that idea to all their people? There are many other options inbetween with plenty of room for diplomacy, although it has been stated above i see now. To assume also that all communism is equal to slavery and murder shows a potential ignorance and unwillingness to see the similar problems emerging from multiple angles and plan for the future. To assume ignorance from what is not said is to assume a silence is indication of a blank mind. Taking things at face value is a unfortunately common waste of time.

Xsjadoblayde:

It is not a matter of solely capitalism vs communism, why does the US seem intent on pushing that idea to all their people? There are many other options inbetween with plenty of room for diplomacy, although it has been stated above i see now. To assume also that all communism is equal to slavery and murder shows a potential ignorance and unwillingness to see the similar problems emerging from multiple angles and plan for the future. To assume ignorance from what is not said is to assume a silence is indication of a blank mind. Taking things at face value is a unfortunately common waste of time.

My guess is something to do with the fact that communism has produced the 2 biggest mass murders in human history. What happened when India and China allowed free markets, oh yes 750 million people were lifted out of poverty in 25 years. How about the wonders of state planned socialism in Venezuela, despite having the world's largest oil reserves and 10 years of oil at $100 barrel earning it $800 billion you can't even buy toilet paper. State planning has been tried and it doesn't work. If you want to believe in state planning and communism you can but don't go around accusing others of ignorance in the face of the 60 - 100 million dead of Mao and Stalin. If you system allows that, then is does not work.

albino boo:

Shamanic Rhythm:

Stupidity:
I never tire of people who complain about capitalism mindlessly.

Capitalism: an economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and the creation of goods and services for profit. Central characteristics of capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labour and competitive markets.

Clearly we'd all be better off without any of those things. I mean it's not like every attempt at a communist country hasn't ended in failure and genocide (or very close). Yay Communism.

I never tire of people who brush aside any criticism of capitalism with complaints about communism. Like there isn't any kind of midpoint between the two systems.

That's because there isnt one. Capitalism works because of the decisions made by millions about what they want to buy. As soon as substitute the choice of millions with the choice of few then success or failure becomes about you ability to get a positive decision from politicians not the merits of what you are selling. Capitalism works because it puts money into goods and services that people actually want instead of what some people think they should want.

So by your logic, there's zero difference between, say, a country that subsidises a particular industry, and full blown Stalinism? Crikey.

Shamanic Rhythm:
[quote="albino boo" post="7.933002.23481544"]
So by your logic, there's zero difference between, say, a country that subsidises a particular industry, and full blown Stalinism? Crikey.

Since a pure capitalist system doesn't and never has existed, that would be a weird argument. I suggest you re-read that comment and be a little less divisive and judgmental.

Shamanic Rhythm:
[quote="albino boo" post="7.933002.23481544"]
So by your logic, there's zero difference between, say, a country that subsidises a particular industry, and full blown Stalinism? Crikey.

Since a pure capitalist system doesn't and never has existed, that would be a weird argument. I suggest you re-read that comment and be a little less divisive and judgmental.

 Pages 1 2 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here