Controversial Fire Emblem: Fates Scene Dropped From Western Releases

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Controversial Fire Emblem: Fates Scene Dropped From Western Releases

fire emblem fates

A controversial scene, which drew comparisons to "gay conversion therapy," will not be included in the Western release.

In a statement provided to Nintendo World Report, Nintendo revealed that a controversial scene and conversation will be removed from Western versions of Fire Emblem: Fates.

"In the version of the game that ships in the U.S. and Europe, there is no expression which might be considered as gay conversion or drugging that occurs between characters," a Nintendo representative wrote.

The statement appears to refer to a scene in which an apparent gay character, Soleil, has her drink spiked with a "magic powder" that makes women appear to Soleil as men, and men appear as women. This is done by the protagonist, in an effort to help the character, who is having difficulty speaking with other women. Soleil falls in love with the protagonist, who she continues to love after the powder wears off and he returns to a male in her eyes. A marriage proposal can follow this.

This scene is one of many that occurs when players pair up with a wide range of both male and female characters, where many can build relationships that eventually lead to marriage.

It's not immediately clear whether the scene will be removed entirely, or altered. We have reached out to Nintendo for more information.

Fire Emblem: Fates releases on 3DS in the U.S. on February 19, in the form of two different stories: Birthright and Conquest, with a third, Revelation, coming March 10. Nintendo also recently announced a new limited edition Fire Emblem: Fates 3DS XL.

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Anyone know when Fire Emblem went from a tactical RPG to a dating sim? I haven't played an FE since the first one and I don't recall there being relationships in it...just a straight-forward paper-rock-scissors tactical RPG with perma-death.

Seems like it's gone from that to this:

image

RJ 17:
Anyone know when Fire Emblem went from a tactical RPG to a dating sim? I haven't played an FE since the first one and I don't recall there being relationships in it...just a straight-forward paper-rock-scissors tactical RPG with perma-death.

It's been a thing since the third game. Awakening just made it easier to do support conversations. If your first FE was the GBA one, then yes, there were support conversations and characters would get married if they were S-ranked. The "dating-sim" element was in there all this time.

OT: Yeah, while gay conversion wasn't the intent, I could see people seeing how it could be implied. Better to axe it and replace it with something better. Now if they could only do that with the rest of her supports. Or at least give her a gay option.

This is a load of misinfo. The character isn't even gay - she can't be partnered any female characters in-game, only male ones. She gets flustered around cute girls while trying to act cool. The protagonist does this to help her maintain her composure.

The slipping something into their drink thing is pretty shitty as it is, but the way they've spun this is either a huge translation blunder or terrible manipulative.

RJ 17:
Anyone know when Fire Emblem went from a tactical RPG to a dating sim? I haven't played an FE since the first one and I don't recall there being relationships in it...just a straight-forward paper-rock-scissors tactical RPG with perma-death.

Well, Support conversations have always been in Fire Emblem games, as far as I know. They've just become more prominent as of recently.

OT:As much as I hate censorship, self or otherwise... Yeah, I could see the shitstorm we would have over a "Turn the gay character straight" scene. Makes me wonder if it's just a standard romance if you play as Lady Avatar.

Wait, holy shit they actually added gay characters? Nintendo can learn from past mistakes! It's a Christmas miracle!

EyeReaper:

Wait, holy shit they actually added gay characters? Nintendo can learn from past mistakes!

What exactly do you mean by 'past mistakes'? What exactly is inherently wrong with a game not having gay characters?

OT: This is probably one of the few times Nintendo has censored something in the past year that's actually reasonable. That does not mean I'm not upset at the fact that Xenoblade Chronicles X was messed with for no reason.

Great. I was actually looking forward to having these scenes in the game.

ShakerSilver:
This is a load of misinfo. The character isn't even gay - she can't be partnered any female characters in-game, only male ones. She gets flustered around cute girls while trying to act cool. The protagonist does this to help her maintain her composure.

The slipping something into their drink thing is pretty shitty as it is, but the way they've spun this is either a huge translation blunder or terrible manipulative.

I, for one, am of the opinion that the scene should have remained as-is because this was the intended design by the producers. Still, I can understand that changing this is very wise in an SJW society. Could you imagine a Nintendo rep having to explain the scene on TV after the backlash they would have got? How could he explain it with enough context for it to make sense and not feel like "rape culture"?

Soleil is not fucking gay. She just likes cute girls in a platonic manner. At no point in the game is it ever confirmed that she's actually homosexual. She may be bisexual at most. In fact, they've completely misrepresented her character here entirely, since she really just likes to seem like a cool and smooth kind of person, but being around cute girls makes her weak in the knees. In some cases she even faints. Which is especially troubling for someone who sometimes fights girls on a battlefield. The powder is used as a sort of exposure therapy by her commander who is understandably worried about her possibly being killed.

Also, during the scene, she is entirely aware of what's happening and in full control of herself and her senses. Kamui does put the powder in her drink without asking, which is by no means a good thing admittedly and pretty inexcusable, but he immediately tells her that the woman she's talking to is him, and explains to her what the powder did and why he did it. This article and others try way too hard to make this seem like some kind of date-rape scenario.

Here's an actual translation of this so called "controversial scene": http://pastebin.com/bgQC0yEa

I don't know who the hell they intend to placate by changing these kinds of scenes (actually, I do) but I doubt many of those people are actually interested in buying this kind of game in the first place. Thank fuck I learned to read Japanese so I don't have to give my money to these people anymore. I'd rather the money I spend support the artist's original vision than some god damn nanny that thinks she knows what's best for me.

Lizzy Finnegan:
The statement appears to refer to a scene in which an apparent gay character, Soleil, has her drink spiked with a "magic powder" that makes women appear to Soleil as men, and men appear as women. This is done by the protagonist, in an effort to help the character, who is having difficulty speaking with other women. Soleil falls in love with the protagonist, who she continues to love after the powder wears off and he returns to a male in her eyes. A marriage proposal can follow this.

Well, thats somebody's fetish. Not mine, but somebody's.

RJ 17:
Anyone know when Fire Emblem went from a tactical RPG to a dating sim? I haven't played an FE since the first one and I don't recall there being relationships in it...just a straight-forward paper-rock-scissors tactical RPG with perma-death.

Awakening. Sure there were always support conversations (Ike x Soren is canon and none of y'all can prove otherwise) but it didn't turn into an important mechanic until then.

EyeReaper:
Wait, holy shit they actually added gay characters? Nintendo can learn from past mistakes! It's a Christmas miracle!

They've had gay characters in Fire Emblem for a while. Ike from the Radiant Saga is bi, Soren is gay or even arguably pan and finally Heather is a lesbian. I haven't played Awakening so I dunno about that.

ShakerSilver:
This is a load of misinfo. The character isn't even gay - she can't be partnered any female characters in-game, only male ones. She gets flustered around cute girls while trying to act cool. The protagonist does this to help her maintain her composure.

Is she not gay/bi/pan/whatever or is there simply no women that she could be a partner with? Because there's a difference between the two, a distinction that was made in at least one previous Fire Emblem game.

From what I remember from the last round of people whining about anyone daring to find a problem with a character who only shows interest in women only being paired romantically with men and being drugged with magic that shows Mr. Protagonistman as a cute girl to top off their relationship, not only was the scene reminiscent of conversion therapy and happy-fun-drug-girl's-drink-time but the writing was just generally shit for this character. After all this is the same one who hits on her mother, right?

Not to mention that the whole "she's not even gay/she's totally bisexual" thing seemed to be supported by little more than a single line where she looks a boy so feminine everyone thought he was a girl and says boys aren't inherently out of play. Considering who this particular line is said to and how her Protagonist-support thing involves her falling in love with your cute, female version, I can definitively say that she can be found on the sexuality spectrum between super-heterosexual and ultra-heterosexual.

The scene sounds so stupid that the game can only benefit from removing it.

Fucking hell. This reminds me of that bit in Tristan and Isolde (original medival tale, not 21st century movie adaptation). For those who don't know its a tale about how the upstart english kingdom is threatened by the secret love affair of the king's arranged bride who will secure his peace with Ireland and one of his most trusted knights. However since this was written in the medival era the reason for this affair is that tristan and isolde accidentally drank a "love potion" that was meant for isolde and the king on their wedding night and that is why they are in love, because how else in the world could two young unmarried people possibly do anything carnal if not forced to by some malevolent potion?

Pretty silly from out modern perspective but that was written more than a thousand years ago and while the implications are pretty silly they are ultimately harmless. This scene however seems to imply that a person could only possibly find people of the same sex attractive if they were under the effect of a drug I.E not accountable for their actions and/or not capable of rational decision-making. That is quite offensive to say the least. And by the way Nintendo you are a multinational entertainment company in the 21st century, what the fuck is your excuse for writing this?

I can already hear people crying censorship but I don't think its the case. I don't think the support is altered because it was offensive. Its just as likely the support is altered because it just doesn't work.

While its fun to imagine Corrin as some psychopath who calls soldiers to his room to forcefully touch them and drug girls he fancies, its not how the game portrays it. Corrin is always an amazing guy and what he did in that support wasn't really depicted as all that wrong, at least not more so then ''lol I made a mistake''

Whoever wrote the support clearly didn't think what Corrin did was messed up. I think the backlash must have come as a surprise to the writer. The scene shouldn't be altered because its tasteless but because it just doesn't work when an established great guy starts acting like a scumbag and gets himself a wife because of it.

Also magical powder to ensure you see everyone's gender swapped is just ridiculous. I'm not sure how someone wrote that down and thought it was good writing.

VanQ:
Soleil is not fucking gay. She just likes cute girls in a platonic manner. At no point in the game is it ever confirmed that she's actually homosexual. She may be bisexual at most.

I read the transcript you linked to, and from that it seems just as reasonable to reply with 'Soleil is not fucking straight' - that link made the character out to sound resolutely attracted to both genders. Women platonically faint around "cute village girls" often, do they?

I'd rather the money I spend support the artist's original vision than some god damn nanny that thinks she knows what's best for me.

I think I'd condone removing scenes like that based on awful writing and weirdness alone... But I ostensibly agree; anyone buying that game is likely familiar with how--- er, 'Japanese' it is.

Darth Rosenberg:

VanQ:
Soleil is not fucking gay. She just likes cute girls in a platonic manner. At no point in the game is it ever confirmed that she's actually homosexual. She may be bisexual at most.

I read the transcript you linked to, and from that it seems just as reasonable to reply with 'Soleil is not fucking straight' - that link made the character out to sound resolutely attracted to both genders. Women platonically faint around "cute village girls" often, do they?

I'd rather the money I spend support the artist's original vision than some god damn nanny that thinks she knows what's best for me.

I think I'd condone removing scenes like that based on awful writing and weirdness alone... But I ostensibly agree; anyone buying that game is likely familiar with how--- er, 'Japanese' it is.

As I said, nowhere in the game is she ever confirmed to be strictly homosexual, bisexual, straight, demisexual or anything. In fact, the only confirmed relationship she can have is with the male MC, which would imply straight. But again, it's never specifically alluded to, it's just that the media spin on this has been very manipulative.

This is ...WHAT!? I just...who the hell included this in the story? Frankly I just want it gone because my brain would shut down from sheer concentrated stupid.

If that makes me pro-censorship (Ignoring that this is the developers making a decision of their own free will in a business situation), then where I do I get stamped?

Johnny Novgorod:
The scene sounds so stupid that the game can only benefit from removing it.

Yeah, I agree. Not much artistic integrity to maintain as far as I am concerned. Removing one easily misinterpreted / ill-conceived scene from a game that's 30+ hours doesn't seem like a big deal at all. It just sounds like some kind of stupid harem anime BS, and the less of that in my tactical RPG the better.

Also, the whole slipping something into her drink thing is a little too relevant for the west at the moment. I don't think Nintendo wants us thinking "Bill Cosby" when playing FE, lol.

EDIT: Also, are they keeping the whole Ninja chick molesting prisoners thing or was that a mistranslation? I recall people flipping out about that.

VanQ:
SNIP

Wait, really? That's is? She has self-conscious panic attacks around hot women and they gave her essentially mood-relaxors so she can do her job?

...and sigh we liberal, open-minded and accepting Westerners are shamming this poor woman for her condition.

VanQ:
As I said, nowhere in the game is she ever confirmed to be strictly homosexual, bisexual, straight, demisexual or anything. In fact, the only confirmed relationship she can have is with the male MC, which would imply straight. But again, it's never specifically alluded to, it's just that the media spin on this has been very manipulative.

Um, or, y'know, reading the text you provided that's apparently actually in the game (re sexuality)? They're not exactly subtle about a 'straight' woman fainting around cute girls.

This isn't a major point, btw, I'm just saying you seem to be ironically misconstruing what you suggest's been misconstrued (I do think labeling the scene a 'conversion' is wide of the mark, though Nintendo using it in a statement doesn't exactly help clarify anything).

Silentpony:
Wait, really? That's is? She has self-conscious panic attacks around hot women and they gave her essentially mood-relaxors so she can do her job?

...and sigh we liberal, open-minded and accepting Westerners are shamming this poor woman for her condition.

I wasn't aware spiking a woman's drink with a drug that severely alters their perception to the point that men look like women could be considered "essentially mood-relaxors." Nor was I aware that that was the extent of the situation and the issues people had with the character.

Well if you deal with an unstable audience this is really the only solution, and I'm guessing they will need to keep doing it for the foreseeable decade or two until people grow up.

LifeCharacter:

Silentpony:
Wait, really? That's is? She has self-conscious panic attacks around hot women and they gave her essentially mood-relaxors so she can do her job?

...and sigh we liberal, open-minded and accepting Westerners are shamming this poor woman for her condition.

I wasn't aware spiking a woman's drink with a drug that severely alters their perception to the point that men look like women could be considered "essentially mood-relaxors." Nor was I aware that that was the extent of the situation and the issues people had with the character.

It doesn't actually qualify as 'spiking' the drink if the character is fully aware of it, which apparently she was. Otherwise you could say all medicine is simply a 'spike' and no one should ever drink or eat anything because they're simply 'spiking' themselves.

Drugging a person without them knowing is skeevy regardless of reasons. Hugely so in regards of trying to change them. Yeah, I know it's in good intent, but a lot of shitty, bad things can be done in good intent, too.
I can see where it might be weird to have her fall in love with the player character while appearing a a woman then turning out to be a guy and still being in love could be seen as bad. Ya know what with people thinking it's a choice and it fueling their delusions that people can be "cured" of being attracted to the same gender.

I just really hope that there can be a same sex relationship between the two.

Also kinda bummed I might miss out on gender swapped art of the male cast.

Yeah, judging by what I've heard about that scene, I'm fine with them removing it. Sounds dumb more than anything.

Smooth Operator:
Well if you deal with an unstable audience this is really the only solution, and I'm guessing they will need to keep doing it for the foreseeable decade or two until people grow up.

I think part of the issue is people who complained weren't the target audience. It seems its a translation error that got everyones panties in a bunch.

Silentpony:
It doesn't actually qualify as 'spiking' the drink if the character is fully aware of it, which apparently she was. Otherwise you could say all medicine is simply a 'spike' and no one should ever drink or eat anything because they're simply 'spiking' themselves.

She's fully aware of it... after she's consumed it and he deigns to inform her that he spiked her drink. Not before, after.

Darth Rosenberg:

VanQ:
As I said, nowhere in the game is she ever confirmed to be strictly homosexual, bisexual, straight, demisexual or anything. In fact, the only confirmed relationship she can have is with the male MC, which would imply straight. But again, it's never specifically alluded to, it's just that the media spin on this has been very manipulative.

Um, or, y'know, reading the text you provided that's apparently actually in the game (re sexuality)? They're not exactly subtle about a 'straight' woman fainting around cute girls.

This isn't a major point, btw, I'm just saying you seem to be ironically misconstruing what you suggest's been misconstrued (I do think labeling the scene a 'conversion' is wide of the mark, though Nintendo using it in a statement doesn't exactly help clarify anything).

And this is where I have to bring up the big, glowing elephant in the room that everyone is blind to. This was written by Japanese writers. Japan has very different views on homosexuality and people like Soleil than the West does. Soleil is essentially a "Class-S" girl at best. She's not gay or even bisexual, she just finds pretty women aesthetically pleasing. That's it. There is no reading between the lines.

It seems contradictory and confusing, but this is also where culture clash hits badly which is something the West always has trouble admitting. In Japanese media this wouldn't be much out of the blue (it's why a stereotype in anime, games, etc has heterosexual girls sometimes feeling each other up). Furthermore, one only look to her father to see where she grew this habit and idea of girls since he's a shameless flirt. Monkey see, monkey do as they say.

Anyway, I do find it funny how people threw such a tizzy over this. This one conversation. In a game with HUNDREDS of them. Sometimes you just get a weird roll of the dice and this time it hit on this. Whatever, there are tons of other conversations and Soleil has a lot of other supports that are amusing, funny, and interesting. Then again I shouldn't be surprised at gamers once again cherry-picking certain scenes and claiming that's the only seen in the entire game. I also wouldn't be surprised if the people who complained about this scene are going to be the ones to complain about it being altered for localization. Just can't win, can we? I know I'll be enjoying the game next month regardless because Intelligent Systems is looking to give Awakening a run for its money and it being written by one of my favorite manga writers is only icing on the cake.

Aiddon:
I also wouldn't be surprised if the people who complained about this scene are going to be the ones to complain about it being altered for localization.

What? The only people complaining about it being changed right now are the people who didn't have a problem with it. Where did that assumption even come from? The "This is wrong" and "Nothing should ever be changed" crowd very rarely have overlap.

As for "this one conversation in a game with hundreds" I have to say that's an odd stance to take. If there had only been five conversations would this have been a more appropriate conversation to have? People are in a tizzy because this is the Escapist and outrage is the only thing that can get a thread to last longer than 20 posts. We've pretty much developed and outrage culture online.

Smooth Operator:
Well if you deal with an unstable audience this is really the only solution, and I'm guessing they will need to keep doing it for the foreseeable decade or two until people grow up.

People having an issue with a character being unknowingly drugged and it leading to that person falling in love with the person who drugged them? I fail to see how people People need to "grow up." Or how this audience is "unstable."

erttheking:
The "This is wrong" and "Nothing should ever be changed" crowd very rarely have overlap.

When it comes to a specific instance, this is true, but we did see this exact situation in regards to Steven Universe's UK broadcast as the people who where of the "this is wrong" mentality for other products being localized where suddenly of the "nothing should ever be changed" mentality for that issue. Was pretty hilarious to watch.

Zontar:

erttheking:
The "This is wrong" and "Nothing should ever be changed" crowd very rarely have overlap.

When it comes to a specific instance, this is true, but we did see this exact situation in regards to Steven Universe's UK broadcast as the people who where of the "this is wrong" mentality for other products being localized where suddenly of the "nothing should ever be changed" mentality for that issue. Was pretty hilarious to watch.

Having been a part of the gaming community for many years, it happens like clockwork. Because we really are that fickle and shallow and we need to fix that.

Zontar:

erttheking:
The "This is wrong" and "Nothing should ever be changed" crowd very rarely have overlap.

When it comes to a specific instance, this is true, but we did see this exact situation in regards to Steven Universe's UK broadcast as the people who where of the "this is wrong" mentality for other products being localized where suddenly of the "nothing should ever be changed" mentality for that issue. Was pretty hilarious to watch.

I was in that thread and more remember the "this is wrong" crowd sticking by their guns for the most part and saying "That's not what censorship is." I myself said that it wasn't censorship, even though it pissed me off. And then it went off the rails into talking about how "sexual" the scene was. Honestly half of the debates regarding stuff like this revolves more around "What's censorship?" and "should censorship be bad unconditionally or conditionally?" along with a ton of other baggage that gets brought up. Like everything else, we don't want to argue the thing we're specifically talking about half the time and we want to go back to the overall us vs them battleground.

MarsAtlas:

RJ 17:
Anyone know when Fire Emblem went from a tactical RPG to a dating sim? I haven't played an FE since the first one and I don't recall there being relationships in it...just a straight-forward paper-rock-scissors tactical RPG with perma-death.

Awakening. Sure there were always support conversations (Ike x Soren is canon and none of y'all can prove otherwise) but it didn't turn into an important mechanic until then.

You get a high five for the mention of Ike x Soren, but I'm going to have to act like an annoying nerd and point out support convos served an important purpose in the fourth game, Seisen no Keifu. There's a timeskip halfway through and you play the second half with the second generation of character. If you did not pair people up to make babies, you're stuck with crappy no-name replacements.

Oh yeah, this scene. I remember it being brought up in a convo in some other thread. 'Twas a couple months ago when the game came out in Nippon Land. I remember how silly I found the entire situation regarding it. Not... much has changed since then if I'm being honest.

That said, as much as pointless as I find it, I'd actually much rather Nintendo get rid of it than have to deal with the absolute PR NIGHTMARE that'd probably come with this. Other companies could probably sidestep it just fine, but this is a 1st party title from Nintendo. God, can you imagine? The screams of censorship are a lot easier to deal with than the screams of... whatever this'll get pegged with. Just as well, anime fans and players of these types of games have enough trouble explaining their hobby to people, so Nintendo's fuckery actually kinda helps broaden its appeal in that regard.

It's kinda like whole Swimsuit thing in Maiden of Black Water. Yeah, I think the change is dumb, but kripes, do I ever get it.

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