The Next Hearthstone Patch is Changing Up Some Classic Cards

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Mangod:
Booty Bay Bodyguard and Magma Rager did get addressed in TGT, in the form of Evil Heckler (cheaper) and Ice Rager (better stats), respectively. Not that I ever see those get played either.

That was my point, they were replaced by strictly better cards, I think that's pointless in a digital game.

The Philistine:
As for Master of Disguise, I'm guess it's to prevent stuff like sitting Malygos in perma stealth.

MoltenSilver:
Because so long as it exists they can't make a low-mana/weak-body neutral minion with a powerful recurring effect or Master Of Disguise would just protect it forever. Gadgetzan Auctioneer has already shown just how powerful even a single turn of stealth can do for a persistent effect, much less 'stealth until your opponent draws a strong enough aoe'. Blood Imp got harshly nerfed back in beta for the same reason. That said I do agree with you that Blizzard's 'no buffs' policy is incredibly grating and doesn't paint a positive picture of their balance team.

Fair enough I suppose, stealth can kinda run away with games.

My main point was that it must be fairly grating for players who have repeatably seen their cards get nerfed, some cards are still functional but then you have examples like Buzzard (which was just ridiculous over kill) and Commander (which was just lazy design).

Gizen:

RedDeadFred:
The Blade Flurry change is controversial, but, as someone who's been longing for some new, good weapons, I think this is a good idea. Blizzard couldn't make good Rogue weapons as long as this card had the cheap burst and board clear potential that it did.

You say this, but considering the full set is now revealed and rogue got no new weapons at all, that reasoning is invalidated.

I'm pretty sure WotOG isn't the last set they'll ever make so no, the reasoning isn't invalidated. It was a design limiter, similar to how Master of Disguise was.

Only ones i use are leper gnome and knife juggler. Won't change much about knife juggler, his attack was never the point, the point was spamming cheap units and machinegunning your opponents board to control their field, but the leper gnome nerf hurts a bit, as it screws with my death rattle shaman deck somewhat, and i finally made a somewhat decent shaman deck too, shame.

The Philistine:

PunkRex:
I've only played a hand full of games but I watch it a lot, so I may be speaking out of my ass but big shifts in value (like these) don't promote variety, they just kill cards. The Leper Gnome/Knife Juggler/Arcane Golem thing just seems like a shift towards a slower meta, which is kinda bollox when you think about it, WotOG is pushing for a slower game but that's not really a fair reason to tell aggro players to get stuffed. These cards will likely survive though, those Druid cards on the other hand, I get that Druid was kinda predictable but damn son.

It's like seeing my beautiful Warsong Commander be forced into retirement... SHE DESERVED BETTER THAN THAT BLIZZARD!

Also, why the funkin waggles are they nerfing Master of Disguise? That's like beating on the poor kid at school, leave her alone Blizzard, she aint doing anything! How's about you address the fact that Booty Bay Bodyguard and Magma Rager are still totally pointless.

Aggro will persist in some form or another. The low cost aggressive playstyle suffers much less from playing cards off curve and punishes slower decks quite a bit more when they don't have immediate answers every turn. At most, the nerfs alone might give their opponents another turn to stabilize.

In the process, it should make other cards more interesting in the process. For druids, you currently almost never see Aviana or Cenarius used in ranged play, because who cares about big minions when the game ends by turn 9? The same with hunter, you'll likely see a shift towards more midrange decks without them getting stomped out by aggro.

As for Master of Disguise, I'm guess it's to prevent stuff like sitting Malygos in perma stealth.

Hey! Cenarius was sometimes used in Egg Druid ( a deck which actually sees some competitive play), that said I agree with just about everything else. Agrro will never die merely go into semi-slumber, than new cards come out and the bear crawls out and eats your face.

RedDeadFred:

Gizen:

RedDeadFred:
The Blade Flurry change is controversial, but, as someone who's been longing for some new, good weapons, I think this is a good idea. Blizzard couldn't make good Rogue weapons as long as this card had the cheap burst and board clear potential that it did.

You say this, but considering the full set is now revealed and rogue got no new weapons at all, that reasoning is invalidated.

I'm pretty sure WotOG isn't the last set they'll ever make so no, the reasoning isn't invalidated. It was a design limiter, similar to how Master of Disguise was.

So then you wait to nerf it until you're actually making the cards that would otherwise be impossible. Yes, someday in the far off future 5 years from now rogue will MAYBE get a good weapon because of this change, but in the meantime, right NOW, rogue is pretty fucked.

Mangod:

Booty Bay Bodyguard and Magma Rager did get addressed in TGT, in the form of Evil Heckler (cheaper) and Ice Rager (better stats), respectively. Not that I ever see those get played either.

Yes and no. While they made new better versions of the cards, it's digital. We see them changing cards so we know they can do it. And Ice/Heckler didn't lead to any unseen problems like other buffs. Also those two cards are going away in about..... 6 months to a year? Meaning they'll have not nothing in that spot other than booty bay and magma, possibly forcing them to make new ones or buff the old

Gizen:

RedDeadFred:

Gizen:

You say this, but considering the full set is now revealed and rogue got no new weapons at all, that reasoning is invalidated.

I'm pretty sure WotOG isn't the last set they'll ever make so no, the reasoning isn't invalidated. It was a design limiter, similar to how Master of Disguise was.

So then you wait to nerf it until you're actually making the cards that would otherwise be impossible. Yes, someday in the far off future 5 years from now rogue will MAYBE get a good weapon because of this change, but in the meantime, right NOW, rogue is pretty fucked.

True, but Blizzard hates changing their cards. Apparently, they think the more casual players will be too confused if there are somewhat regular balance changes. I'm just saying that, from a future design perspective, I can see why they did what they did. Not saying that I wouldn't have preferred them to have waited for the change to actually matter.

On the bright side, cards like Bladed Cultist, and Shadow Strike might allow for Tempo Rogue (my favourite archetype of the class) to make a comeback. Deathrattle Rogue might also be strong. Heck, even C'thun Rogue could be quite good seeing as running just one Blade of C'thun and a few of the better C'thun cards would be enough to buff him significantly. Rogue now has the best spot removal and with stickier minions being less common, ensuring 2 for 1's with board clears won't be quite as important.

RedDeadFred:
On the bright side, cards like Bladed Cultist, and Shadow Strike might allow for Tempo Rogue (my favourite archetype of the class) to make a comeback. Deathrattle Rogue might also be strong. Heck, even C'thun Rogue could be quite good seeing as running just one Blade of C'thun and a few of the better C'thun cards would be enough to buff him significantly. Rogue now has the best spot removal and with stickier minions being less common, ensuring 2 for 1's with board clears won't be quite as important.

I REALLY don't think Bladed Cultist is going to be good. It, like so many other rogue cards, is a card you can't actually cast on curve. If anything, it is the MOST uncastable-on-curve card rogue has ever gotten. Because on turn 1 you can not combo it unless you're going second and either backstabbing a 1 drop (which will never be a good use of backstab) or coining into it, which is a waste of the coin since it wastes a mana. You'd be better off just coining out an actual 2 drop. The one exception is if you go second and start with double Bladed Cultist in your hand, which is hardly something that will happen with any reliability. And since casting on curve is what tempo is all about, I don't see Bladed Cultist being good.

The problem with deathrattle is that those sticky minions that aren't around anymore were also the best deathrattles. Losing them hurts deathrattle's early game and makes raptor less of a value play unless you save it til much later in the game to drop it on something that costs more than it. Meanwhile, a combination of blade flurry nerf, and sludge belcher and antique healbot rotating out, means that getting to the late game when you can start making the cool raptor plays becomes more difficult. Not only that, but without sticky deathrattles, the matchup against other control decks, specifically the ones that aren't losing anything like Freeze Mage and Control Warrior, become much more difficult as well.

And finally, C'Thun... is hard to judge right now since it's so different from previous decks. I feel C'Thun might end up becoming the best rogue deck, because the ability to go '25/25 or more C'Thun, clear your board and damage your face, shadowstep, next turn do it again' is going to be really really strong. That said, I suspect it's going to have the same issue, except possibly even more exasperated, of trying to survive against aggro decks. Aggro may have been nerfed, but it's not gone entirely, while the best defenses against it are. Rogue is still the worst class at trying to recover from damage, while taking the most of it from repeatedly smashing your face into things, and now it's undoubtedly the worst class at trying to keep a flood of minions off the board. I suspect a C'Thun deck will have VERY strong matchups against control decks, moderate success against mid-range decks, and just get slaughtered by aggro. So, like a better version of mill rogue then (which is a fun but terrible deck).

rcs619:

C117:

Actually, I think it is going to be pretty much useless with that nerf. Sure, Blade Flurry was a decent board clear, but that's not what it was used for. It was mainly used for the burst.

Pretty much only in the oil deck, which was not going to be playable in standard anyway.

Okay, confession time... I guess I'm extra salty about this because after 3 months of playing Hearthstone, the only deck I had that was semi-viable was... an Oil Rogue-variant. It used things like Spiteful Smith and Earthen Ring Farseer to fill out the ranks, and so the only card that WASN'T part of the Basic/Classic set was Tinker's Sharpsword Oil. So I was actually looking forward to this expansion. I haven't played Hearthstone for a good 3 months now because I got sick of not getting anywhere and getting stomped by people who actually spend money on the game, but I thought I might give my old Oil-deck a go in the next expansion, maybe find another card to swap out for Tinker's. Beacuse that was the only card that was going to be phased out, and even if that's an integral part of the deck I could probably make it work.

Cue this nerf, and my deck is pretty much wortless. The only deck I have that is even remotely decent, and it is now not even worth looking at because its only win-condition went right out the window. What's worse, this is not something that can be ignored by just playing Wild format and using older cards, the nerf is for ALL formats. And no, I don't have the cards required to build a Miracle Rogue. Or a Pirate Rogue. Or any other kind of Rogue, really. And I probably never will.

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