GameStop CEO: "Wii U Was Disappointing Everyone, Including Nintendo"

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GameStop CEO: "Wii U Was Disappointing Everyone, Including Nintendo"

Wii U Network

GameStop CEO Paul Raines says that while the Wii U was all around disappointing, he was impressed by the loyalty of Nintendo fans.

The Nintendo Wii U was a pretty disappointing console, as evidenced by the fact that Nintendo has moved its final blockbuster game to a "dual launch" title for the NX. In an interview with A list daily, GameStop CEO Paul Raines echoes this sentiment, and sheds a bit of light on just why the Big N feels the Wii U failed.

"Wii U was disappointing to everybody, including them. They made some bold bets, and maybe some of them didn't work out," said Raines. However, he applauded hardcore Nintendo fans, stating that "They're a very innovative group of people, so we never count out Nintendo. Even now it's incredible how strong some of their IP is-Pokemon, for example. We could have a Pokemon weekend this weekend at GameStop and we would break sales records just because every time they put out a new game they have a very loyal fan base. Super Mario, Zelda, all those IPs have a huge, loyal fan base."

He added that he is very excited for the NX, however, and believes that Nintendo's shift to the mobile market is definitely the right move. "A lot of the kids today have grown up only playing small games on their phones. As you introduce that exciting Nintendo IP and those characters, they're going to want more of that. We think that will push them into our stores to see the big games. They'll go, "Wow, there's actually a game I can play for months and months instead of a few days." That will be good for us. It will be very good for Nintendo, and we're very positive on it."

Were you disappointed in the Wii U? I basically bought mine just for Smash Bros. I'm glad its not my only gaming system, as there just isn't enough games on it...

Source: A List Daily

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It probably doesn't help that third parties abandoned the console despite sales being comparable to the PS3 in its early years.

I'm still baffled by where that stemmed from. The same companies that wholeheartedly supported the PS3 during its struggle to get decent sales numbers while having a ludicrously difficult system to work with where not willing to do the same for a comparatively easy system to work with? I mean sure you need to work around a different controller, but from a programming perspective it was easier to work with then a PS3 ever was.

Thankfully for Nintendo they have enough first party support for the console to be saved from financial loss to simply being a disappointment.

As for consumers, outside of title selections I'm still confused as to what made the WiiU stand out as the looser of this generation. It had a lead in terms of first party titles, and in its first year had more games of decent to great quality then the PS4 or Xbone did, and I find it hard to believe that the default apps anyone with a modern TV, cable, satellite or fibreoptic television system already has was the deciding factor.

Super Smash Bros WiiU, Mario Kart 8, Splatoon, Hyrule Warriors, Pikmin 3, Pokken Tournament, Bayonetta 2, Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, Nintendo Land, Starfox Zero, Xenoblade Chronicles X, and the entire Wii backlog. Honestly, I'm pretty happy with my purchase. Granted, I didn't by a single one of those from Gamestop because fuck Gamestop, but still.

FillerDmon:
Super Smash Bros WiiU, Mario Kart 8, Splatoon, Hyrule Warriors, Pikmin 3, Pokken Tournament, Bayonetta 2, Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, Nintendo Land, Starfox Zero, Xenoblade Chronicles X, and the entire Wii backlog. Honestly, I'm pretty happy with my purchase. Granted, I didn't by a single one of those from Gamestop because fuck Gamestop, but still.

Exactly. Plenty of good games that people were just unwilling to try.

I still enjoy mine, to be quite honest. I've got a gaggle of nieces and nephews that we bought one for Christmas. They seem to enjoy the Mario Maker levels I make for 'em. Pokken Tournament, Bayonetta 2, Mario Kart...Most of those still get regular play.

Zontar:
It probably doesn't help that third parties abandoned the console despite sales being comparable to the PS3 in its early years.

I'm still baffled by where that stemmed from. The same companies that wholeheartedly supported the PS3 during its struggle to get decent sales numbers while having a ludicrously difficult system to work with where not willing to do the same for a comparatively easy system to work with? I mean sure you need to work around a different controller, but from a programming perspective it was easier to work with then a PS3 ever was.

The third parties jumped ship (without really getting on board in the first place) because they knew the Wii U would not be able to compete hardware wise against whatever Sony and Microsoft cooked up, and they didn't want to have to release cut down versions of their games that wouldn't sell well once they started developing games primarily for the Xbox One and PS4 and left the 360 and PS3 behind.

Nintendo has had serious problems with enticing third parties for two decades now due to their boneheaded design decisions with their consoles. The decision to stick with cartridges on the N64 alienated most third parties that didn't want to eat the extra cost of making the cartridges vs. a CD, and dealing with the storage limitations the cartridges presented. The Gamecube's proprietary mini-disc format had a similar issue, 1.8GB maximum for the Gamecube discs vs. 4.7GB maximum for the DVDs that the PS2 and Xbox used, third parties didn't want to cut down their games or print multiple discs to deal with the storage limitations.

With the Wii, Nintendo effectively stuck with 6th generation hardware and simply bolted a motion sensor onto it to compete against the Xbox 360 and PS3, starting the trend where Nintendo is about a generation behind its competitors in terms of computing horsepower and their consoles started relying on gimmicks like motion controls and the tablet controller to be competitive. That trick worked once with the Wii, as it became the big must own device for everyone to have, but it was very much a fad and the new market Nintendo opened up quickly flocked to smartphones and tablets for their gaming needs and left Nintendo behind.

At this point, Nintendo is pretty much screwed when it comes to home consoles. Two decades of failure as far as the third parties are concerned means no third party wants to touch Nintendo's consoles outside of releasing low budget shovelware for the kids and causals. Nintendo can still put out the strongest first party lineup, but that really isn't relevant when there is literally nothing else on Nintendo's consoles and there are months long droughts in between games because Nintendo can't churn out enough titles fast enough to support a console all by themselves.

I thought the Wii U machine itself was alright, just wasn't happy with the gimmicky gameboy controller. Didn't care for any of the games either, even Smash Brothers which was the only one I was eager to see, but it is still nerfed crap compared to Melee.

Luminous_Umbra:

FillerDmon:
Super Smash Bros WiiU, Mario Kart 8, Splatoon, Hyrule Warriors, Pikmin 3, Pokken Tournament, Bayonetta 2, Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, Nintendo Land, Starfox Zero, Xenoblade Chronicles X, and the entire Wii backlog. Honestly, I'm pretty happy with my purchase. Granted, I didn't by a single one of those from Gamestop because fuck Gamestop, but still.

Exactly. Plenty of good games that people were just unwilling to try.

Or people weren't given a good reason to give a shit. Well I guess I don't count since I tried some of them, but they don't look interesting anymore either.

Im confused - did GameStop say this or did GameSpot?

I support Nintendo's move to mobile. It's better for them to focus their energy and resources there than it is for them to create subpar consoles. Now if only Nintendo would start listening to and understanding their customers...

No, GameStop CEO, the Wii U didn't disappoint me... and not because of all of the Nintendo-based systems I still have beforehand...

Other than that, I did not know that dude could read minds metaphorically...

Zontar:
It probably doesn't help that third parties abandoned the console despite sales being comparable to the PS3 in its early years.

I'm still baffled by where that stemmed from. The same companies that wholeheartedly supported the PS3 during its struggle to get decent sales numbers while having a ludicrously difficult system to work with where not willing to do the same for a comparatively easy system to work with? I mean sure you need to work around a different controller, but from a programming perspective it was easier to work with then a PS3 ever was.

Probably because the PS3 still had places to go hardware wise. Despite being a bitch to program for it was still the most powerful console on the market at the time. The Wii-U on the otherhand was stuck in the previous generation. The PS3 also didn't skew the market with its controller. Add to that that Nintendo hasn't exactly been in many third-parties' good graces even before the Gamecube.

Zontar:
It probably doesn't help that third parties abandoned the console despite sales being comparable to the PS3 in its early years.

I'm still baffled by where that stemmed from. The same companies that wholeheartedly supported the PS3 during its struggle to get decent sales numbers while having a ludicrously difficult system to work with where not willing to do the same for a comparatively easy system to work with? I mean sure you need to work around a different controller, but from a programming perspective it was easier to work with then a PS3 ever was.

Thankfully for Nintendo they have enough first party support for the console to be saved from financial loss to simply being a disappointment.

As for consumers, outside of title selections I'm still confused as to what made the WiiU stand out as the looser of this generation. It had a lead in terms of first party titles, and in its first year had more games of decent to great quality then the PS4 or Xbone did, and I find it hard to believe that the default apps anyone with a modern TV, cable, satellite or fibreoptic television system already has was the deciding factor.

They were 6 years late to the party, and all they could muster up was a console that was maybe stronger than a PS3 on a good day. 6 years. That was pretty much the end of the generation by then. No shit they didn't roll with a competitor to the PS3/360 when they were on their last run. It shit the bed day 0, it was meant to emulate the success of the Wii gimmick and it backfired horribly.

The thing came out in 2012, and both the PS4 and Xbone were announced and came out in 2013. Both of those being several times more powerful than their predecessors, ie, the consoles the Wii U had comparable performance with. On top of that, all those third parties gave a fair shot to it, they ported a bunch of stuff to it (Arkham City, AC4, Mass Effect 3, Black Ops 2, etc.), despite that being arduous as fuck, and none of them sold well. No wonder they dropped it like a hot sack of shit. They were already struggling with both performance and image quality on the old hardware, and the WiiU became a part of that problem instead of being a shot in the arm like the actual 8th gen consoles.

Funny you should mention ease of development, since the Wii U was notoriously bad to develop for. Horrible documentation, slow tech support, bad toolsets, completely different architecture that made porting to it time consuming and it wasn't able to perform certain tasks as effectively as the 360/PS3 so it required workarounds, bad online infrastructure. That's PS3 levels of bad. Only it didn't have a massive overhead like the PS3 which made the hardware competitive. That can't be stated enough, the WiiU is literally on the level with hardware a generation behind.

What made it the obvious loser, and incidentally the thing the vast majority of people buy consoles for since 7th gen, was the lack of of third party hardware. First party games, while a good angle for marketing and may even be a good single time money maker, have become far less prevalent since 2007-2008, Halo 3 being the last really huge first party console pusher, and that was when CoD4 came out, which paved the way for third parties taking over. Wii U didn't have any of the big, showpiece third party games, and that was the kiss of death for it.

Also, software wise, it wasn't all there in its first year either. Zombi, Pikmin 3 and the afformentioned late ports of games. To be fair, the PS2 had an awful first year too. (Remember Bouncer?) It wasn't until '01 that it became great. Seems par for the course with consoles really.

My question is how a CEO of a gaming retailer can be as surprised as he comes off. The next Nintendo console could be a rebranded Apple 2E that cost 20,000 dollars, and you'd still see it defended by the rank and file.

Heck, if I had a nickel for every time I said there weren't enough games that interested me, only to have someone come along and rifle off a list of games that don't interest me, I...would probably buy a New 3DS instead, so I could play SNES games on my handheld.

Says the mobile shift is a good idea. All his views are now invalid.

The tablet was underutilized, but it had tons of quality games on it. It's just still very popular to give Nintendo bad press.

Zontar:
It probably doesn't help that third parties abandoned the console despite sales being comparable to the PS3 in its early years.

That's a somewhat optimistic appraisal. The Wii U's sales tailed off extremely rapidly after release and haven't ever recovered.

By contrast the PS3 was slow by Playstation standards, so Sony cut the prices and stepped up the advertising. Sales of the PS3 actually grew after year one and they had shifted twenty-something million by year three. Wii U had about half that number by November 2015.

More importantly, Sony promotes third party games on it's websites, in it's advertising and it also partially funds some of them. Nintendo do none of these things and sales for third party titles on Nintendo hardware are traditionally terrible. Even for a relatively small install base it's worth publishing on Sony, whilst for Nintendo there's little incentive to get a tiny share of a tiny market.

The Wii U's been a total disaster for Nintendo, I'm not sure anyone would have predicted it selling at half the rate of the Gamecube, even in Nintendo's worst case projections.

The WiiU wasn't that bad, like the guy said, it's basically the games that make Nintendo consoles and the WiiU had some solid titles (plus backwards compatibility). I think that they try too hard on their gimmicks though. Yeah you can play eight players in Super Smash, but you need a few Gamecube controller adapters or you get this Frankenstein mess of wiimotes, 3dses, the game pad and whatever other controllers you can throw into the mix.

I'm just tired of the gimmicks, Nintendo doesn't really need them. I doubt the majority of people bought the WiiU because of the touch pad.

The store could have benefited greatly by interchanging between the handheld and home console library. I was very disappointed to see that I can't play A Link to the Past or Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow on my 3DS and of course would love to play a Pokemon game on my TV.

Eclipse Dragon:

I'm just tired of the gimmicks, Nintendo doesn't really need them. I doubt the majority of people bought the WiiU because of the touch pad.

Actually, i did. I have two young kids and a wife. Each of them want, at somepoint in the day, to use the television. Usually, when my youngest daugther goes to sleep, the older one want to watch a movie or mlp episodes on the tv, my wife usually goes on the ipad to check her mails and her facebook. Let say at this point, while everyone else is doing something, i want to play some games ? sure, i could go in the basement where there's another tv. But, i dont know, call me an idealistic girl but i like that idea that even if were doing things individualy, we're still in the same room.

So, enter wiiu with the possibility of display on the gamepad for most games, that i can play without using the tv set.

This generation i decided to get a wiiu and upgrade my computer. So far i dont regret it. There's no games i want to play on xbox one or ps4 that i cannot have on my pc.

Steven Bogos:
snip

This article alternates between GameSTOP and GameSPOT. GameSpot in the URL, GameStop in the title, GameSpot in the subtitle. I get that this is about GameStop based on context, but just thought I'd bring this to your attention.

OT: There are plenty of great games on WiiU, many of them exclusive to the WiiU:

FillerDmon:
Super Smash Bros WiiU, Mario Kart 8, Splatoon, Hyrule Warriors, Pikmin 3, Pokken Tournament, Bayonetta 2, Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, Nintendo Land, Starfox Zero, Xenoblade Chronicles X, and the entire Wii backlog.

Let's add Super Smash Bros. and Super Mario 3D World to that.

Yes, you're not going to find the likes of the big popular online shooters, big western RPGs (minus a junk port of Mass Effect 3), or Dark Souls...so, yeah, I can see how people would be disappointed if they had a WiiU only; I know I would. On the other hand, I think too many core gamers are quick to write the system off, and I really don't understand why someone would buy it solely for Smash and not even try to explore their new options (no offense OP). Surely, of all the games listed above, there must be SOMETHING that a person who is willing to buy a whole system for Smash would also find interesting and fun, many of which can't be played anywhere else.

Also, I prefer to play many multiplatform games on the WiiU if possible. The WiiU has the definitive version of Rayman Legends. The WiiU version of Injustice: Gods Among Us has the ability to put the combos on the WiiU gamepad so that you can see them while you practice. Also, I love the second-screen mode. Being able to play the game on the WiiU gamepad screen is highly useful; I can play while someone else in the house uses the TV. It also works as a wi-fi only tablet for things like Netflix, Hulu, etc. and costs less than a new iPad to boot. (Yes, I know that a regular tablet is better for surfing/work, but how many people buy a tablet just to watch stuff and play games? Exactly.)

We mostly got ours for the kids, but I've been digging Splatoon and Hyrule Warriors like nobody's business. And I'd rather play Shovel Knight on the WiiU than anything else.

Zontar:
It probably doesn't help that third parties abandoned the console despite sales being comparable to the PS3 in its early years.

I'm still baffled by where that stemmed from. The same companies that wholeheartedly supported the PS3 during its struggle to get decent sales numbers while having a ludicrously difficult system to work with where not willing to do the same for a comparatively easy system to work with? I mean sure you need to work around a different controller, but from a programming perspective it was easier to work with then a PS3 ever was.

Thankfully for Nintendo they have enough first party support for the console to be saved from financial loss to simply being a disappointment.

As for consumers, outside of title selections I'm still confused as to what made the WiiU stand out as the looser of this generation. It had a lead in terms of first party titles, and in its first year had more games of decent to great quality then the PS4 or Xbone did, and I find it hard to believe that the default apps anyone with a modern TV, cable, satellite or fibreoptic television system already has was the deciding factor.

Part of it was, they didn't give third parties development kits until like a month before the system was released. Meanwhile, people had kits for PS4 and Xbox One for like a year if not longer. It was kind of a matter of mutual respect, Nintendo didn't give them enough time or reason to care for the Wii U, and in turn, they couldn't care about making games for them. And it makes way more sense with Sony, at least modernly, as they kind of put out shout outs for little guys. Like their dedicated indie stuff.

So, basically Nintendo is the older kid who is too stubborn to play nice with others.

Luminous_Umbra:

FillerDmon:
Super Smash Bros WiiU, Mario Kart 8, Splatoon, Hyrule Warriors, Pikmin 3, Pokken Tournament, Bayonetta 2, Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, Nintendo Land, Starfox Zero, Xenoblade Chronicles X, and the entire Wii backlog. Honestly, I'm pretty happy with my purchase. Granted, I didn't by a single one of those from Gamestop because fuck Gamestop, but still.

Exactly. Plenty of good games that people were just unwilling to try.

Proving that modern day gamers have no taste and are willing to buy garbage like The Order 1886 (Yes I will not stop beating that dead horse until people realize this is what's wrong w/ modern games) just because of superficial reasons.

I'm about ready to start a blog called "Modern day gamers are retarded" just to rant about how I hate today's gaming mentality.

And this is also why I'm not excited at all for the NX or their new mobile strategies. Because it's going to be Nintendo selling their identity to pander to the modern market in the worst way possible. Basically they're gonna turn into Capcom or Konami with this thing and never recover. All because no one wants to try anything that isn't Call of Duty.

So.. Who said it? The Gamestop CEO or the Gamespot CEO??

Might want to fix up the article.

The Wii U was only a disappointing console initially. It had a weak launch, but today, it's actually a very strong console with a large library of games. I can name at least 10 quality titles which are worth buying from the top of my head.

For those pointing out that 3rd party development jumped ship because of the Wii-U's lower power, that's not it. 3rd parties really don't care all that much about the power behind a system, there are a lot of tricks for downgrading a game to run on weaker hardware and that would have been done by the optimization process. Remember that cross platform releases still hit the 360 and PS3 for a long time after the launch of the XBone and PS4.

So why did they leave the Wii-U to die? Simple- Nintendo was pushing the touch screen on the gamepad for the first year of launch titles really hard, Nintendo wanted all of it's games to have unique functionality for the Wii-U gamepad. This can be seen in the reflection of those first year titles, games like W101 and Zombie-U forced the usage of the gamepad by having vital displays and gameplay depend on the gamepad screen and with the Batman port actively using the Wii-U gamepad gyro (iirc.)

3rd parties jumped ship because this requirement from Nintendo would mean that they couldn't just swap over cross platform releases to the Wii-U, games would have to be developed for the Wii-U in mind and those games couldn't be easily ported to other platforms either. We see a lot of cross platform launches on the PS4 and XBone because it's a way for publishers to tap a larger market without making a serious investment into the games to get them on both platforms, games produced for one can easily be ported to the other. The Wii-U forced itself apart from that by forcing the gamepad onto 3rd party development and 3rd party development rejected the idea as it would require significant development into games to have them on the Wii-U when the market was much smaller than the combined market of PS4/XBone Crossovers.

It's not the developers that make the decisions to not develop for a console- it's the publisher. Publishers don't care about the lower power of a console, they care about economics and profitability. Developing a port for the Wii-U would have higher development costs than PS4/XBone crossovers, reach a significantly smaller market, be a much higher risk, and have a lower return on said investment of porting. Those factors are even worse for games developed and launched on the Wii-U for 3rd parties. Remember that they are businesses and are aiming to make money- not engage in console wars on social media about which system is more powerful.

We thought Nintendo had learned their lesson from that as they dropped the forced gamepad requirements from games a while a go, but we still get games that come out that remind us of just how bad that design philosophy is: See Starfox Zero.

The NX is the chance to distance themselves from that design. From the sounds of it, it will have a screen in the controller as the Wii-U did- and it would be a hard sell for the console adoption rate if it doesn't have backwards compatibility with atleast Mario Maker. And the vague statements made about the NX, coupled with some unreliable rumors are painting a picture of a combined portable/console system which would replace both the Wii-U and 3DS in terms of development. If such a thing were true then it would be an effort from Nintendo to prevent another weak console launch and cycle by populating it with it's portable developers and reduce the compromises the portable developers make in game development to have it fit on portable platforms.

Edit: This would get more games onto the console as development cycles and releases for the 3DS are insane due to the crazy strength of the 3DS market in Japan and the stability of it outside of Japan and provide it's portable platform with more robust options due to carrying console comparable power.

And for the record- I don't regret my Wii-U purchase. Been running a PC as my primary platform with a Wii-U as secondary and been mostly happy this console cycle, most disappointments come from the games that do get released having really bad aspects and not about games not getting released.

Zontar:
It probably doesn't help that third parties abandoned the console despite sales being comparable to the PS3 in its early years.

True point, but that's been going on since the SNES days. A good chunk of beat em ups and fighting games went Sega Genesis exclusive because Nintendo demanded changes to tone down the violence (removing blood). Smaller 3rd party companies didn't have the resources or time to make those changes and the Sega Genesis wasn't that far behind in sales behind the SNES.

Sega shot themselves in the foot multiple times in the 90s and now Nintendo is acting in a scarily similar manner.

AzrealMaximillion:

Zontar:
It probably doesn't help that third parties abandoned the console despite sales being comparable to the PS3 in its early years.

True point, but that's been going on since the SNES days. A good chunk of beat em ups and fighting games went Sega Genesis exclusive because Nintendo demanded changes to tone down the violence (removing blood). Smaller 3rd party companies didn't have the resources or time to make those changes and the Sega Genesis wasn't that far behind in sales behind the SNES.

Sega shot themselves in the foot multiple times in the 90s and now Nintendo is acting in a scarily similar manner.

The difference being that Nintendo has made enough money that it can have three or four more failures on this order of magnitude before their company is threatened financially. Honestly, I consider the WiiU a failure, it's at least a failure that somebody needed to make. This is what experimentation is for, finding out what works and what doesn't and I at least applaud Nintendo for trying something different. Now we know what not to do in the future.

Nazulu:
I thought the Wii U machine itself was alright, just wasn't happy with the gimmicky gameboy controller. Didn't care for any of the games either, even Smash Brothers which was the only one I was eager to see, but it is still nerfed crap compared to Melee.

Luminous_Umbra:

FillerDmon:
Super Smash Bros WiiU, Mario Kart 8, Splatoon, Hyrule Warriors, Pikmin 3, Pokken Tournament, Bayonetta 2, Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, Nintendo Land, Starfox Zero, Xenoblade Chronicles X, and the entire Wii backlog. Honestly, I'm pretty happy with my purchase. Granted, I didn't by a single one of those from Gamestop because fuck Gamestop, but still.

Exactly. Plenty of good games that people were just unwilling to try.

Or people weren't given a good reason to give a shit. Well I guess I don't count since I tried some of them, but they don't look interesting anymore either.

Well. you tried them, I'd definitely say you count.

LordTerminal:

Proving that modern day gamers have no taste and are willing to buy garbage like The Order 1886 (Yes I will not stop beating that dead horse until people realize this is what's wrong w/ modern games) just because of superficial reasons.

I'm about ready to start a blog called "Modern day gamers are retarded" just to rant about how I hate today's gaming mentality.

And this is also why I'm not excited at all for the NX or their new mobile strategies. Because it's going to be Nintendo selling their identity to pander to the modern market in the worst way possible. Basically they're gonna turn into Capcom or Konami with this thing and never recover. All because no one wants to try anything that isn't Call of Duty.

I'm still hold out hope for the NX. I mean, sure it could go poorly, but what little we've seen from Nintendo in terms of mobile stuff isn't that bad. I'm not going to say they've made the no bad decisions *cough*papermario*cough* But they aren't all gone like some companies.

And honestly, out of everything, the worst "Modern Gamer" thing in my eyes is how little patience they have and how much they crave instant gratification. No buildup to something great, have to get to good stuff as quick as possible.

Luminous_Umbra:

Nazulu:

Luminous_Umbra:

Exactly. Plenty of good games that people were just unwilling to try.

Or people weren't given a good reason to give a shit. Well I guess I don't count since I tried some of them, but they don't look interesting anymore either.

Well. you tried them, I'd definitely say you count.

I meant I didn't count as one those people who are unwilling to try.

I don't expect you to understand, but Nintendo aren't the same as they used to be. Just watching the Wii U games game play, they feel watered down. And when I actually played them, it felt awful compared to what they've done before (like DK Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8, SSB Wii U and Starfox Zero). I haven't played them all of course, but I don't have any interest in the rest. And this is how it goes for so many other people. Saying "people are unwilling to try" is ignoring the room full of elephants.

I would honestly put the Wii U up as one of my favourite consoles ever. It didn't have the same games as the PS4 or XB1, but that's fine. It offered a different selection and that selection is strong. As far as gen 8 consoles go, the Wii U is the only one that I feel doesn't disappoint. The backwards compatibility is a big help, and on top of that Nintendo made efforts to add additional compatibility for Smash Bros. Could it have been better? Absolutely. But as it is it's a great console, if a bit unconventional. The Wii U is a near-perfect Nintendo home console, and the perfect home console for legacy Nintendo fans. In that vacuum you can call the Wii U a success in many ways. Against the rest of the industry, it's a harder sell. I love my Earthbound machine that also plays nearly every other game I could want to play.

Well they got that right. Though im not sure how innovative Nintendo is, especially given that your example of innovation seems to be Pokemon, a franchise that seemingly never changes.

Zontar:
It probably doesn't help that third parties abandoned the console despite sales being comparable to the PS3 in its early years.

I'm still baffled by where that stemmed from.

It stemmed from WiiU being shit and Nintendo being as always notoriously hard to work with.

Luminous_Umbra:
I'm not a newcomer to Nintendo good sir and while I will agree that past games did have their gems, to paint it all as "awful compared to what they've done before" is perhaps a bit hasty. I will agree that Freeze and Zero were lacking, but let's not let fond memories cloud our judgement.

And while there are certainly people like yourself, there are countless others that intended to buy the Wii U for a single game. Which is in itself an issue, but the point is that they were clearly uninterested in the other games.

Nothings hasty, it's my opinion, and the opinion of many others. Nintendo are making new mistakes that are detrimental to the experience, and it could be also why they aren't making the profit they hoped for.

And Yes! I do have fond memories of almost all the popular classics, but I still believe they're great for a reason. I mention them and point to them as positives for a reason. I still play them with friends for a bloody reason. And so do many other people, and for all different reasons too. You were saying I'm blinded by nostalgia, yes?

Also, I already mentioned whats in your second paragraph, so yeah.

Strazdas:

It stemmed from WiiU being shit and Nintendo being as always notoriously hard to work with.

But the PS3 was also shit with Sony also being hard to work with. In fact Sony's so hard to work with it's the whole reason they entered the console industry instead of working with Nintendo (people forget the 20 year old feud between them was started by Sony being the incredibly unreasonable one)

Zontar:

Strazdas:

It stemmed from WiiU being shit and Nintendo being as always notoriously hard to work with.

But the PS3 was also shit with Sony also being hard to work with. In fact Sony's so hard to work with it's the whole reason they entered the console industry instead of working with Nintendo (people forget the 20 year old feud between them was started by Sony being the incredibly unreasonable one)

Yes, but PS3 was also the most powerful platform (unlike WiiU being the weakest one) and it was riding very heavily on PS2 fame (Wii market was far more casual and less likely to upgrade).

Strazdas:

Zontar:

Strazdas:

It stemmed from WiiU being shit and Nintendo being as always notoriously hard to work with.

But the PS3 was also shit with Sony also being hard to work with. In fact Sony's so hard to work with it's the whole reason they entered the console industry instead of working with Nintendo (people forget the 20 year old feud between them was started by Sony being the incredibly unreasonable one)

Yes, but PS3 was also the most powerful platform (unlike WiiU being the weakest one) and it was riding very heavily on PS2 fame (Wii market was far more casual and less likely to upgrade).

But the PS3 sold incredibly poorly (with its first two years being comparable to the WiiU) and it was such a bitch to program for many companies made two builds of their games in it was a multi-platform. Sure it was the most powerful, but the current generation is the first time in video game history that the most powerful console is also the best selling one.

Zontar:

Strazdas:

Zontar:

But the PS3 was also shit with Sony also being hard to work with. In fact Sony's so hard to work with it's the whole reason they entered the console industry instead of working with Nintendo (people forget the 20 year old feud between them was started by Sony being the incredibly unreasonable one)

Yes, but PS3 was also the most powerful platform (unlike WiiU being the weakest one) and it was riding very heavily on PS2 fame (Wii market was far more casual and less likely to upgrade).

But the PS3 sold incredibly poorly (with its first two years being comparable to the WiiU) and it was such a bitch to program for many companies made two builds of their games in it was a multi-platform. Sure it was the most powerful, but the current generation is the first time in video game history that the most powerful console is also the best selling one.

PS3 still sold better than WiiU. So if it sold that poorly WiiU did even worse. And yes, it was a bitch to work with.

Actually the most powerful ones always sold great. Mega Drive was more powerful and sold better as a result, then N64 came and sold better as a result. PS2 was also the most powerful of its generation and PS3 sold most units by the end of its life as well. So yes, power sells.

Strazdas:

PS3 still sold better than WiiU. So if it sold that poorly WiiU did even worse. And yes, it was a bitch to work with.

For its first two years, the PS3 sold comparatively well to the WiiU. Wasn't until its 3rd year people actually started buying them.

Actually the most powerful ones always sold great. Mega Drive was more powerful and sold better as a result, then N64 came and sold better as a result. PS2 was also the most powerful of its generation and PS3 sold most units by the end of its life as well. So yes, power sells.

This is literally the first generation where the console that is most powerful is also the best selling. The PS2 was nothing on the Xbox in terms of power, the PS3 lost to the Xbox 360 until its final year where it marginally beat it out (but still lost to the Wii by a massive margin), and the N64 was outsold by the PS1 by 3 to 1.

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