Blizzard Removes "Avoid this Player" Option from Overwatch

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The Rogue Wolf:

freaper:
You mean it was working as intended?

Contrary to popular opinion, there's quite a difference between "being a jackass" and "beating me in a game".

There's a difference between playing a game and having a good time and playing a game and repeatedly running into a wall. People here are calling the use of this function as a means to avoid really good people as "abuse", but I disagree. Avoiding someone you know you can't beat is the obvious, logical thing to do. Anyone with half a brain would know that.

I'm guessing this will just increase the number of mid-match quitters.

Makes sense. I've put at least ten toxic players or more on my avoid list so to speak, but if people are abusing the system to avoid skilled players then the only thing to do is get rid of it. I'll just go back to diligently reporting toxicity, though that's another system I am sure gets abused. Ah well.

RaikuFA:

Dunno. But I have been kicked in TF2 and Payday 2. Gotten DM in Awesomenauts and League telling me to kill my self and to stop playing games altogether caused it was obvious I was new. Then the threats in SF4 for losing.

TF2 has a gigantic amount of servers ranging from uber-meta-hardcore to GambleGodModeforthefuckofit, it's not like being booted really matters. And Payday2 is just broken from the foundation up in multiple ways. You get booted for being a level below people in that game these days.

And really, threats in SF4? I can get trashtalk and "you suck", but threats? That seems a bit embellished, especially since SF4 is sorta considered one of the better FGC's online considering how mainstream it is.

Can't really speak for League, haven't participated in chat for two years now because there was more crying and people getting ragey because they weren't told how amazing their facecheck was going on in chat than anything actually entertaining.

So a thing everyone said will happen, happened. to noones surprise. At least blizzard is kind enough to come out and fix it openly.

RaikuFA:
It took one person to complain and they got rid of one of the best features in online gaming?

Well its not like blizzard lacks precedent on acting based on single forum compaint.....

Though that feature itself - it should never have existed.

Elijin:
I have mixed feelings on this.

I mean, previous games and systems with avoid player feedback had drop down options including 'Skill difference' as a selectable reason.

What? that shouldnt even be an option. As one great developer of one of the most suvesful online multiplayer games said: "We dont need ranked matches. The whole point of getting better is that you could easier beat opponents, not to be matched with people that always make you loose no matter your skill level."

NickBrahz:
Don't play the game, but did they really just admit that they changed an entire system because of the issues 1 guy was having.

No, one guy complained, they investigated and found out that the system was broken.

saltyanon:

There's a difference between playing a game and having a good time and playing a game and repeatedly running into a wall.

Yes, the difference is in one of those the player in question sucks bigtime.

Avoiding someone you know you can't beat is the obvious, logical thing to do. Anyone with half a brain would know that.

No, the logical thing to do is get better and beat him.

Estarc:
I'll just go back to diligently reporting toxicity, though that's another system I am sure gets abused. Ah well.

It will, but its easier to handle. My friend did the LoL moderation council thing when they had that. 9/10 reports were bullshit in the style of "the guy is better than me therefore clearly hax". BUt that 1/10 was legit and got banned. thing is, these 9/10 did not get actions taken against them, so no punishment for innocent. while avoid system punished innocent.

A skilled widowmaker can be hard to counter at the best of times. If newer players are encountering this one sniper that just chews up their whole team and spits them back into the respawn queue I could see them using the avoid option.

Matchmaking that pits "one of the best players in the world" against the unwashed dregs of the internet? No offense but I wouldn't want to go up against those kind of odds in anything I play nowadays. Just don't have time to git gud.

Just once I'd like to see a matchmaking system where I can happily sit in the the silver tier for all time and not have to worry about what the golds and above are doing.

"Working as intended." I mean if it stops players from playing with players they want to avoid then it is working as intended. Did they really expect people wouldn't use a feature that stops them from facing someone who generally ruins their experience by dominating them all the time? Honestly they should just keep Avoid the Player feature and make it so that it's less likely you'll join a game with that player rather than flat out removing them from the potential player pool.

Either way the guy can brag he's such a good Widowmaker that people are afraid to face him and get into an E-Sports team or something.

Why does this option even exist? There's about 7 million users, even regarding the different servers the chance to be against the same guy is extremely low.

inu-kun:
Why does this option even exist? There's about 7 million users, even regarding the different servers the chance to be against the same guy is extremely low.

Well, espacially in the example of being at the very top, you normally "always" meet the same players. Because there are not that many!

Basically, the internet stepped in, and "this is why we can't have nice things." I would have killed for this system back when I played Dystopia. (To be fair, I did have something similar in the form of a banhammer, but man, I had to fill out webforms and forum posts to use that!)

It makes sense to me that if person A reported Person B for toxicity, then yeah, alter their match-making. But it shouldn't be something that's publicly known. To me, I like the idea of a "Avoid Matchmaking" function. I don't want to be paired with the toxic and the trolls. But at the same time, I've yet to come across that person in OW. I think it's largely because that to enjoy playing a MP game, I need to play with friends. People I know are dependable. People I can talk to, people I can joke with. If I don't have that social aspect, when what's the point of a MP game?

Redryhno:

RaikuFA:

Dunno. But I have been kicked in TF2 and Payday 2. Gotten DM in Awesomenauts and League telling me to kill my self and to stop playing games altogether caused it was obvious I was new. Then the threats in SF4 for losing.

And really, threats in SF4? I can get trashtalk and "you suck", but threats? That seems a bit embellished, especially since SF4 is sorta considered one of the better FGC's online considering how mainstream it is.

This was back when it first came out. Could've changed since then but I already returned it.

And have you been on SRK? Pretty bad site, full of trolls.

Seanchaidh:

freaper:
You mean it was working as intended?

No, players being avoided simply for being good at the game or with a class people don't want to deal with playing against (or a combination of both) is not "working as intended".

Surely it is, otherwise Blizzard would have made the "avoid" feature actually do what it says - just "avoid" not "ban from your games entirely".

Unless Blizzard is incompetent. But no, it can't be that.

I've still got the "Avoid this Game" option though, heh heh heh.

But seriously, sounds like they didn't need to remove it just tweak it; especially since they use matchmaking. Avoid lists shouldn't be treated like bans, but preference. If matchmaking determines that all suitable games for you have people in them that have "avoided" you, it should still drop you into one.

This goes the same in the inverse, if you are "avoiding" lots of people its going to be harder for you to find a match as well.

Bring back server browsers, and show player lists! That way the onus is on the person that is blocking people not to join servers people they don't like are in.

Honestly I absolutely hate multiplayer versus games anymore. Those of which I still have installed (Rocket League is the only one I think), I've disabled voice on.

The internet is full of trolls trolling trolls. I'd like to say that it didn't always seem that way but I'd probably be wrong.

I'm just gonna say this, in a game about character switching (It's been drilled into my head by every forum post, you should be switching up characters to counter threats), Jeff Kaplan talks about "One of the best Widowmaker players in the world...". So this guy mains Widowmaker solely, and people were avoiding him, and that's why he got avoided. Maybe they weren't avoiding him because of his sniping skill alone, maybe he's a total ass on the team mic, maybe he's toxic in chat, I dunno.

Valnakrume:
Maybe they weren't avoiding him because of his sniping skill alone, maybe he's a total ass on the team mic, maybe he's toxic in chat, I dunno.

He explicitly said in the linked thread something like "he's a nice guy".

That being said I see literally zero issue with avoiding someone because they're clearly far, far too skilled for their level. Its the same issue that comes up with smurfing. The problem isn't really with the avoid this player feature. The problem is that "one of the best Widowmaker players in the world" is pubstomping rather than playing on a team and scrimming.

So, if an average gamer of today faces a challenge that requires them to get better at the game, the most popular answer is "no, bad challenge, go away challenge!" instead of getting better and finding a way to overcome it? Please stop the planet, I'd like to step off.

I once played a game against a full team of friends when I was with random people, the result was a team with near perfect defense versus a team who though 3 Genji was a good idea.

I don't blame the grouped team for that. What I do blame them for is the constant taunting they did through out and at the end, I then selected to avoid the whole team, not due to the skill difference but because they were all assholes.

Strazdas:

Avoiding someone you know you can't beat is the obvious, logical thing to do. Anyone with half a brain would know that.

No, the logical thing to do is get better and beat him.

And that's not gonna happen if you're repeatedly being matched against the guy stomping you. That's dumb, not logical. Retreating and avoiding is the first step to what you're proposing. You don't start learning an instrument by playing the most difficult songs, you start with the easier ones and gradually get better. You avoid the difficult ones until you're equipped enough to handle them.

Avoiding someone better than you is not only logical, it's also wise. Not just in games but in the real world. Retreat is a tactical choice you know.

so Blizzard is removing a great detox tool because it might also hit people who aren't shits, but nobody wants to play with anyway. genius.

Seanchaidh:

freaper:
You mean it was working as intended?

No, players being avoided simply for being good at the game or with a class people don't want to deal with playing against (or a combination of both) is not "working as intended".

But that IS working as intended.

Like it or not, being exceptionally good at something competitive tends to also make the experience for everyone who has to deal with you exceptionally less enjoyable.

Basically the argument is that this one player's enjoyment is more important than the potentially 11 other people whose enjoyment suffers because of him.

Jadwick:
But seriously, sounds like they didn't need to remove it just tweak it; especially since they use matchmaking. Avoid lists shouldn't be treated like bans, but preference. If matchmaking determines that all suitable games for you have people in them that have "avoided" you, it should still drop you into one.

Pretty much this. The system still isn't as robust as it maybe should be (I came up with one a while back that I'd like to see either Blizzard or Valve have a go at), but if a player is getting Avoided by that many people, one of two things is the case: The player is legitimately toxic and should be banned, or way too many users are being sore losers and trying to game the system. Having the system automatically alert the mods after a certain number of Avoids so they can monitor the player's behavior would solve the first case. If they tweaked the Avoid system so you can still get stuck with an unpopular player if they have no other options, the second case wouldn't be an issue either.

Paragon Fury:
Like it or not, being exceptionally good at something competitive tends to also make the experience for everyone who has to deal with you exceptionally less enjoyable.

Basically the argument is that this one player's enjoyment is more important than the potentially 11 other people whose enjoyment suffers because of him.

I think if it's possible for one good player to have that big of an effect on the entire opposing team, that indicates a problem with the game itself. It's really never been an issue in TF2, and while I don't have any personal experience with Overwatch, I know that it's trying to be a lot closer to TF2 than, say, Counter-Strike.

You know, I can't help but think that most of the arguments people are using to defend the avoid system (which I agree with many of them) wouldn't exist if the game just had a competent matchmaker in the first place.

RaikuFA:

Redryhno:

RaikuFA:

Dunno. But I have been kicked in TF2 and Payday 2. Gotten DM in Awesomenauts and League telling me to kill my self and to stop playing games altogether caused it was obvious I was new. Then the threats in SF4 for losing.

And really, threats in SF4? I can get trashtalk and "you suck", but threats? That seems a bit embellished, especially since SF4 is sorta considered one of the better FGC's online considering how mainstream it is.

This was back when it first came out. Could've changed since then but I already returned it.

And have you been on SRK? Pretty bad site, full of trolls.

This is what I don't understand man. You either just have a temperament that leads people to come after you, an exceptionally thin skin, or the worst luck in the world. Seriously I suck at DOTA2 and that game environment is up there as the pinnacle of people getting hateful for a loss. I played that game pretty consistently for 2 straight years and had maybe like... four or five times where someone got really personal but even then it takes just kind of laughing at them.

I'm inclined to think you've probably just had a hell of a lot of bad luck but your experience really seems to be a huge exception.

The Material Sheep:

RaikuFA:

Redryhno:
And really, threats in SF4? I can get trashtalk and "you suck", but threats? That seems a bit embellished, especially since SF4 is sorta considered one of the better FGC's online considering how mainstream it is.

This was back when it first came out. Could've changed since then but I already returned it.

And have you been on SRK? Pretty bad site, full of trolls.

This is what I don't understand man. You either just have a temperament that leads people to come after you, an exceptionally thin skin, or the worst luck in the world. Seriously I suck at DOTA2 and that game environment is up there as the pinnacle of people getting hateful for a loss. I played that game pretty consistently for 2 straight years and had maybe like... four or five times where someone got really personal but even then it takes just kind of laughing at them.

I'm inclined to think you've probably just had a hell of a lot of bad luck but your experience really seems to be a huge exception.

I'll chalk it up to luck. That or I just suck so bad it really pisses them off.

One of the reasons matchmaking systems could be better. Halo used to do a pretty good job of matching me against people of my skill level, but since I forayed into other competitive shooters, I'm finding this to not be the case. I can understand the position the 'avoid player' option puts skilled players in, but Blizzard could at least add a 'mute' option. I shudder to think what my online gaming experiences would be like if I didn't silence people.

suzaku4489:
I was actually using that feature to make the damn matchmaking work better. I'm level 54, but the damn thing would keep matching me with players that were level 200-300+. I know time doesn't directly equal skill, but if 90% of my opponents have literally 15x-20x my time played because their computer chair is also their toilet to improve efficiency, then I don't want feel like I'm their toilet paper.

The big problem with Overwatch matchmaking is it tries to force you into a 50/50 win loss rating. So, if you keep winning, it will keep matching you against better and better players until you lose.

Paragon Fury:

Seanchaidh:

freaper:
You mean it was working as intended?

No, players being avoided simply for being good at the game or with a class people don't want to deal with playing against (or a combination of both) is not "working as intended".

But that IS working as intended.

Like it or not, being exceptionally good at something competitive tends to also make the experience for everyone who has to deal with you exceptionally less enjoyable.

Basically the argument is that this one player's enjoyment is more important than the potentially 11 other people whose enjoyment suffers because of him.

That is what the matchmaking system is for-- you know, that thing the option to avoid a player was subverting by increasing this guy's queue times until he hit newbies because most of the people who had any business playing against him decided that their "experience" was being "ruined" by (shock and horror) losing games. Even if you accept the rather questionable and somewhat disgusting premise that good players should be unable to play a game because it'll ruin the experience of others, the avoid this player option made it worse. Or should we care more about the people who would regularly face this guy normally-- because they are good enough-- than people that this Widowmaker is miles better than, who have absolutely no business playing against one of the best players in the world? Because that would be quite inconsistent.

RaikuFA:

The Material Sheep:

RaikuFA:

This was back when it first came out. Could've changed since then but I already returned it.

And have you been on SRK? Pretty bad site, full of trolls.

This is what I don't understand man. You either just have a temperament that leads people to come after you, an exceptionally thin skin, or the worst luck in the world. Seriously I suck at DOTA2 and that game environment is up there as the pinnacle of people getting hateful for a loss. I played that game pretty consistently for 2 straight years and had maybe like... four or five times where someone got really personal but even then it takes just kind of laughing at them.

I'm inclined to think you've probably just had a hell of a lot of bad luck but your experience really seems to be a huge exception.

I'll chalk it up to luck. That or I just suck so bad it really pisses them off.

I once again will say... I feel so bad for you, because it sucks seeing people have such a rotten experience online.

You know what the best tool for abusive players is? Ignoring them. Everything else is pointless.

Anyway, it was a shit system, glad to see it gone. That being said, the game has much larger issues.

Well, Overwatch just took a big step towards becoming League of Legends. Personally, I adore the ignore function in SWTOR. SWTOR's ignore allows you to both ignore obnoxious rantings/gold spam AND avoid getting paired up with them for FPs/Heroics/Ops. (I think it also works for GSF but I'm uncertain of that.)

Overall, I admit that I use mine very sparingly but it helps keep the game from turning into League of Legends or Left 4 Dead (A big reason why I stopped playing L4D online with anyone that I don't know personally.)

Well, sucks to be an Overwatch player, I guess.

saltyanon:

Strazdas:

Avoiding someone you know you can't beat is the obvious, logical thing to do. Anyone with half a brain would know that.

No, the logical thing to do is get better and beat him.

And that's not gonna happen if you're repeatedly being matched against the guy stomping you. That's dumb, not logical. Retreating and avoiding is the first step to what you're proposing. You don't start learning an instrument by playing the most difficult songs, you start with the easier ones and gradually get better. You avoid the difficult ones until you're equipped enough to handle them.

Avoiding someone better than you is not only logical, it's also wise. Not just in games but in the real world. Retreat is a tactical choice you know.

Sure it will. ever heard the saying that to improve you have to play against someone better than you? Its the perfect place to try counter-tactics against that person.

Oh, a music alegory. Do you block all artists that play better than you because you cant beat them? Must be pretty quiet down there.

NickBrahz:
Don't play the game, but did they really just admit that they changed an entire system because of the issues 1 guy was having.

They've been known to do things like that before, haven't they?

Fulbert:

NickBrahz:
Don't play the game, but did they really just admit that they changed an entire system because of the issues 1 guy was having.

They've been known to do things like that before, haven't they?

Don't think it'll work all the time though. They ignored me when I couldn't get into the open beta and they're ignoring everyone who wants the price lowered for consoles.

Strazdas:

saltyanon:

Strazdas:

No, the logical thing to do is get better and beat him.

And that's not gonna happen if you're repeatedly being matched against the guy stomping you. That's dumb, not logical. Retreating and avoiding is the first step to what you're proposing. You don't start learning an instrument by playing the most difficult songs, you start with the easier ones and gradually get better. You avoid the difficult ones until you're equipped enough to handle them.

Avoiding someone better than you is not only logical, it's also wise. Not just in games but in the real world. Retreat is a tactical choice you know.

Sure it will. ever heard the saying that to improve you have to play against someone better than you? Its the perfect place to try counter-tactics against that person.

Oh, a music alegory. Do you block all artists that play better than you because you cant beat them? Must be pretty quiet down there.

I'm never going to get better at basketball by playing against Michael Jordan. I'm going to get crushed before I ever have a chance to learn. The idea behind your "saying" is to compete against those only somewhat better than you. You can learn, have a chance to win from time to time, and improve. You don't learn to climb mountains by hitting up Everest first.

And you don't compete directly with other musicians, you listen to them to enjoy them. I can enjoy watching an elite Overwatch player, I won't enjoy competing with them. You can even listen to them to learn, and watch an elite Overwatch player to learn, but you can't learn by competing against them.

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