There Will Likely Never be Another Xbox One Exclusive

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DarthCoercis:

No, that was a new one. It's incredibly easy to turn off though, and really isn't as big a problem as people have made it out to be.

Only what it lets you turn off, and even then it still sends information you tell it not to. If Microsoft wasn't pulling that, I'd be putting 10 on my new rig.

Kibeth41:

Because it's paying for convenience.

-To start, a regular Xbox One is cheaper than a gaming PC. Note, I'm not saying the Xbox One is BETTER. I'm saying that it's CHEAPER. $300 won't get you a very good PC.

Well - kind of. What you say is true. However nearly everybody needs a pc anyway. Whether it's for searching the internet or for work. And if you happen to have a work that requires more than just text editing from your computer any processor upgrades will be both beneficial for games and work as well.
So, yes, while a pc is generally more expensive to buy it's also not that much more expensive if you consider you need a pc anyway.
As I said a decent processor also helps with work and for the 300$ you would pay for the xbone you can easily get a really good gpu for your games. Every other pc-part doesn't pay a too large part for game-performance.

-When you play a game on PC, you'll need to mess around with the settings configuration to try and find the setup which best works on your PC at the best quality. [b]On Xbox, all of the settings are already configured to be as good as the system can handle it.

That is pure BS. I have been playing on PC for years and I can count the times I had to manually adjust a games settings on one hand. The games are usually smart enough to switch to settings that your pc can handle well.
Sure, if you really want to min-max your game-performance you can spent some time tweaking the settings for higher fps or better textures, but you almost never have to do it in order to play a game.

Oh, so still exclusive to microsoft current platforms then? Well that killed any excitement i almost had. Sounded too good to be true.

GIVE ME HALO 3 ON PC MICROSOFT!

Didn't they do a remaster of the older Halo games for the XBone? Would that allow me to finally play Halo 3? or is this just going to be things coming out from now?

I thought this meant that games would start showing up on PS4 eventually. Silly, I know, but that's what popped into my head when I read the title. Glad that's not the case, because I'm finally getting ready to buy one because there are enough games on it now that I want to play, but it would kind of bum me out if everything after that I could get on a different system. It would ruin the point of the console for me.

LegendaryGamer0:
I'm still the laziest bastard I've ever met!

Impossible! I refuse to surrender my title of "Laziest BastardTM"!

even my PS Vita runs Terraria better that my PC does, not even kidding.

How old is your toaster exactly? I have/had a supertoaster that managed to run it at 60fps at a lower resolution. Your system must be very old to struggle with it.

It is quite toasty indeed!
But seriously, it can run Windows 7 no problem.
I actually inherited my rig form a friend, and he was able to play games as recent as Deus Ex: Human Revolution fluidly on it.
So the problem is clearly lack of optimization on my part.

But props for even being one of the lucky few who actually bought the damn Vita and gives it love.

I've actually got 2 ^^

Yes, I could go through the trouble of setting everything up... for every single game I own.

Is it really that hard? Serious question. If anything would struggle on my toaster that ran, I'd just make sure everything fancy was off and bam, ran everything not recent very nicely and it was just a toaster.

No, it's not actually that hard. With my previous toaster, I was able (and willing) to put up with all that. It could at least run Need for Speed Most Wanted (2005) on max settings (and sound like a starting jet plane while doing so), and barely let me participate in Tribes:Ascend.
With my current machine, it mostly comes down to...

...the fact that I have no internet connection for my PC. ;)

That's probably the biggest strike against most PC gaming, but that was about to become an issue for the Xbone as well until it nearly killed all chance of it selling any hardware due to backlash.

Yeah, I still don't that. I see all the benefits PC gaming has, but these benefits depend heavily on freedom.
And with the Xbone, they were set to take as much control as they possibly could, lock it in a safe, and launch that safe into some sun somewhere.

Luckily the were pressured to backpedal, but even then, it's baffling to think what they tried to get away with.

Hiddelgreyk:

I actually inherited my rig form a friend, and he was able to play games as recent as Deus Ex: Human Revolution fluidly on it.
So the problem is clearly lack of optimization on my part.

Wait what? How can you struggle to run Terraria if it /was/ capable of playing Deus Ex? If I had to hazard a guess I would say that something is /seriously/ wrong with your PC, not a lack of optimization. I don't mean that aggressively, I just think putting it down to optimization is going to cause you issues later on.

Supahewok:
You know, I tried to upgrade from 7 last week. Cue BSOD 60 seconds after boot for the entire rest of the day until I downgraded. Problem with an integrated graphic driver, none of the half a dozen solutions I tried worked.

I'm still rather salty over it.

Did you do a full install or the upgrade?

As long as the PC games are available outside the Windows Store (even if that means not being part of XBox Play Anywhere program), I'm pretty ok with that.

It's highly unlikely they'd be going this route without the disasters of the Mattrick era. Still, if this leads to more cross-play, it can only be a positive - a rather PC-in-nature title like Elite Dangerous would greatly benefit (on the XB1 owners side) from unifying the playerbase, and removing as many barriers between PC and XB1 as possible (and ideally include PS4 in that, too).

DarthCoercis:
See, that's one of the beauties of pc gaming, choice. Something I've noticed a distinct lack of when it comes to console gaming.

That's subjective, though. I couldn't give a single stuff about "choice" in gaming; the only choice I care about is what game to launch and sometimes what Blu-ray/DVD to watch next. I do [almost] nothing else with my console, and I love it for precisely that reason. The distinct native lack of any mouse'n'keys combo is also an experiential advantage to me.

DarthCoercis:
Or do you think that multiple programs need to be opened first in order to play those games? Also not true. It's incredibly easy to put a shortcut on your desktop and run whatever game you want directly from there.

Er... for the vast majority of games, while yes, you can create shortcuts to them, they'll still open their respective DRM platforms before launching. There are some Steam games that don't use Steamworks, so they won't need it open to run, but for some reason Steam doesn't even tell you which games do and don't. I don't think any Origin games are DRM free, and uPlay is actually useless but for some reason you can't play any of Ubisoft's big titles without it. And now any Blizzard game opens up their Battle.net launcher, too, so technically he's not wrong.

This is also incorrect. When you run a game for the first time it will automatically detect the best settings for your system's hardware. Often, the autodetect settings are rather conservative, and you can choose to tweak them if you want to for better performance or improved visuals. There is no *need* to "mess around with the settings configuration". It's an option, sure, but it's not a necessity or something that *has* to be done.

"Conservative" is a hilarious way to put it. "Utterly trash" would be more accurate. I get that the point is that you don't have to tinker with the options, but auto-detected settings are rarely any good unless you have a high-end machine. And even then, some games have such awkwardly implemented detection that they'll default to low settings even if your hardware far outstrips the recommendations. And that's not even getting into trying to play old games on a modern system.

OT: Aside from my distaste at how Microsoft has been running their business, I've got relatively few issues with Windows 10. That does not, however, mean I'm going to start using the Windows Store. Microsoft's programs are pathetic, and the absolute control they want to exert over their customers at all times is enough for me to write off anything that's exclusive to the Windows Store, even (unfortunately) Halo.

Allow them to come to other platforms as well, or loosen up the restrictiveness of the Store, and I'll start caring.

Programmed_For_Damage:

Steven Bogos:

SlumlordThanatos:
And I'm just over here, waiting for GFWL 2.0 to crash and burn.

XBone games on my PC still isn't enough to get me to get Windows 10, and I'm sure someone will figure out a workaround for those of us who wanted to remain with Windows 7 or 8.

Don't understand the hate for Windows 10. Yes, it's... aggressive with its upgrades, but it is considerably better than Windows 8, and even a little better than Windows 7 which is getting quite dated these days.

I'm really coming around to Windows 10. I use Windows 7 at work and have for years, so I'm pretty stubborn when it comes to "upgrading". My daughter's computer has Windows 8.1 and it gives me the shits.

That said as a Xbox One owner I'm cool with the idea. I outgrew the whole "console warz" thing when I reached adulthood.

Win 10 has been great for me in general, I think a lot of the love / hate comes from user experience in upgrade or install, if it was seamless then it seems fine, if it BSODs you, then it's rubbish.

This said, I have no interest in using Win App store, it's an appalling, transparent attempt to create a walled garden. I got the latest Tomb Raider on there to see what it was like (and because you could get it for ?6 if you changed some settings to Russia) and it was appalling, no V-sync, no install path choice - just pathetic.

Again on the plus side, War Hammer is giving me 10 to 15 extra frames a second on DX12 so that's fairly positive.

CaitSeith:
As long as the PC games are available outside the Windows Store (even if that means not being part of XBox Play Anywhere program), I'm pretty ok with that.

This is what it worries me too. Not sure how the new WUP will work? I am suspicious!

LegendaryGamer0:

-Snip-

You pretty much fucking defended my point in most of your rebuttals?

Okay then, $300 will get you a semi decent PC with second hand parts. You're comparing the price of a second hand PC to a new Xbox One? *gasp* turns out that second hand Xbox Ones are cheaper too!!! Xbox's are cheaper.

There are quite a few people who don't want to spend 3 days trying to figure out how to build their PC. This was exactly my point.

You use Steam, Battle.net, Origins and the fucking distributor for the Windows titles then. It's none of the prior. Still a fucking lot of different places for games to be supplied from. Compared to the fact that ALL Xbox games are in a singular place

And no, consoles don't tend to come with options. Aside from one or two on the system settings. It's nothing compared to configuring a menu for EVERY. FUCKING. GAME.

I'm actually willing to say at this point that anyone that does not have the knowledge to go through basic PC game setups these days are possibly mentally impaired, considering how easy it has gotten. Not calling those people retarded, I'm saying that if a person cannot go through a basic install screen for Steam or, for select titles, input a CD key, I don't think they can use a console either.

Jesus Christ. Actually read my point again, please.

I literally never said that people CAN'T setup PCs. I stated that most people DON'T WANT TO.

Reread my first comment again. Literally everything I pointed out there is a fact that supports the idea that consoles are a purchase of convenience, while a PC is a purchase of quality.

DarthCoercis:

No you don't, and no you don't. Any reputable pc store will charge you a small fee for assembling a custom machine for you, and you'll get better warranty terms out of it as a bonus.

What? All digital games are stored on your ssd/hdd. Sure they might be in different folders, but you can easily choose to have them all install to the same folder, like x:\games\. Or do you think that multiple programs need to be opened first in order to play those games? Also not true. It's incredibly easy to put a shortcut on your desktop and run whatever game you want directly from there.

This is also incorrect. When you run a game for the first time it will automatically detect the best settings for your system's hardware. Often, the autodetect settings are rather conservative, and you can choose to tweak them if you want to for better performance or improved visuals. There is no *need* to "mess around with the settings configuration". It's an option, sure, but it's not a necessity or something that *has* to be done.

[spoiler=]image[/quote]

I want you to attempt this for me. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who doesn't know anything about games. They are ONLY JUST deciding now that they want to get into gaming. Years ago you used to enjoy playing the Nintendo 64, PS1 etc, but you've been out of the technology loop for a while.

How are you more likely to buy a console?
-By doing research online until you see someone suggest that you find a PC distributor who will assemble a PC for you
-doing research into what components you need, why you need them, and what the best components are.
-Going into Bestbuy and seeing expensive name brand PCs
-By going into Gamestop and buying an Xbox One.

How much are they likely to spend?
-$300 for an Xbox One
-$600+ for a decent PC which the retailer suggests

Where is it easier to buy games?
-From various online distributrs such as Steam, Origins, Battle.net, GoG, Humblestore etc
-From the store tab of the Xbox One

Where is the more convenient storage place for games?
-The 'games' tab of the Xbox One
-The Steamapps folder within the programs folder within the hard drive storage location which is sitting among all of these other folders which you know you shouldn't quite touch.

PC fanboys who so densely and blindly deny that there is any convenience to a console are just annoying. No, there's no technical advantage to owning a console. But there is still a HUGE advantage of convenience.

The issue with you people is that you're so vain that you expect yourself to be the primary demographic. Try getting off the internet, talking to real people, and you'll see that they don't want to go through all of the bullshit of buying a PC when there's an easier an alternative in the form of consoles.

Next machine is going to be Windows 7. Only moving to 10 kicking and screaming.

Others have given plenty of good reasons, and I second many of them, but I add one big looming question mark:

Microsoft has said that Windows 10 will be the final version of Windows.

Does anyone seriously believe that Microsoft has casually set aside a fondness for semi-regular infusions of large quantities of money?

So... what takes that revenue stream's place? And will you notice if there's a change in the EULA sixteen months from now, and some right or privilege you take for granted is quietly excised? If the top third of your screen becomes a permanent ad scroll, and the top third of your bandwidth with it? And disabling it means opting out of updates... And then a chain of apps stops working in the process out of "security concerns" for your non-updated system?

I know some will read this as paranoia, but it's far from out of character with Big M's standing "we'll tell you what you want" policies, as recently exemplified by strong-armed upgrades to 7 and 8. There is little reason to feel Microsoft is acting with the customer of a virtually cornered market's interests at heart.

SlumlordThanatos:
And I'm just over here, waiting for GFWL 2.0 to crash and burn.

XBone games on my PC still isn't enough to get me to get Windows 10, and I'm sure someone will figure out a workaround for those of us who wanted to remain with Windows 7 or 8.

Well, we all said the same thing for DirectX 10 on XP, and look how that turned out.

Steven Bogos:

Don't understand the hate for Windows 10. Yes, it's... aggressive with its upgrades, but it is considerably better than Windows 8, and even a little better than Windows 7 which is getting quite dated these days.

The upgrade prompts don't bother me, but there is a few things that do.

Considerably better than Windows 8 in what way? It's taken the start screen and compressed it into a window as the new start menu. Which makes it less user friendly than before, as you have to do more scrolling to find what you want.

It's got an even more fractured interface. We have classic Windows, Metro still exists, and we now have the white material look that every phone app seems to be switching to.

We now have less control over Windows Update. Having to delve into advanced configs, download Microsoft and third party apps to control what we get and when. Then even with all that you still don't have the control that Windows 8, and below, provided. Newer isn't always better, I get to decide what is installed on my PC and not Microsoft.

They even have adverts in solitaire that you need to pay a subscription to remove!

All that for a few extra frames per second that you won't even notice if you have a half decent system.

"If it is free, then you are the product". That seems to fit Windows 10 quite well. Windows 10 will remain on my spares PC for the time being, it won't touch my gaming desktop until there is a must have DirectX 12 game.

Now MS just need to release them on Steam. I already no longer buy EA games because of that. I like this idea tho, it's a great step forward. Saying that, I suspect it's more because of Microsoft's dominance of the PC desktop more than some generosity. It may get PC gamers to go for XB1 since they could have a small library waiting for them already.

KingsGambit:
Now MS just need to release them on Steam. I already no longer buy EA games because of that. I like this idea tho, it's a great step forward. Saying that, I suspect it's more because of Microsoft's dominance of the PC desktop more than some generosity. It may get PC gamers to go for XB1 since they could have a small library waiting for them already.

I don't understand why people are so against Microsoft trying to create a walled garden but then brick themselves willingly into Valve's jungle.

I won't buy a game unless it is on Steam. Why? When did Valve become this massive consumer champion? You can even add non steam games to it and make use of all its features.

Hell I could understand people saying "GoG or nothing" because of the lack of DRM but Steam is DRM.

Kibeth41:

You pretty much fucking defended my point in most of your rebuttals?

Not particularly, but it was dark when I typed it so I don't guarantee maximum mental faculties at that hour.

Okay then, $300 will get you a semi decent PC with second hand parts. You're comparing the price of a second hand PC to a new Xbox One? *gasp* turns out that second hand Xbox Ones are cheaper too!!! Xbox's are cheaper.

It's a cheapo arms race but in the end, the console is(most likely) to be the cheapest. But you get what you pay for, in all cases.

There are quite a few people who don't want to spend 3 days trying to figure out how to build their PC. This was exactly my point.

Or like, what, half an hour max on YouTube and a few hours to assemble, all things depending? Of course, you can always get it assembled and I think NCIX has or had this service for fifty bucks? Thereabouts?

You use Steam, Battle.net, Origins and the fucking distributor for the Windows titles then. It's none of the prior. Still a fucking lot of different places for games to be supplied from. Compared to the fact that ALL Xbox games are in a singular place

I'll give you a lot of it being in one location, but you get the downside of there being no competition and prices are all preset and rarely budge. Steam I can bring in $60 and get away like a bandit while on the XBLM, you'll rarely see sales and when you do, it's often barely worth it. Unless things have really changed and Microsoft got their stick out of their ass, and publishers started caring to give deals on consoles as well.

And no, consoles don't tend to come with options. Aside from one or two on the system settings. It's nothing compared to configuring a menu for EVERY. FUCKING. GAME.

Actually, it's been getting more common for at least one setting to be related to performance. I believe Watch Dogs had a setting dealing with Vsync or AA for performance over visual fidelity, and I know from years back that Frontlines even had one for Vsync if the frame tearing was killing you.
It's not common but it's becoming much more of a thing than it was, which is to say ever.

Not even mentioning that most PC games have presets for extremely simple changes in general detail, and that a lot of console ports tended to skimp on the options. You're thinking of Serious Sam 3 if you think it's a wall of options that never ends. Slap shit on low, medium or high based on what you sunk into your system and mayb fiddle for a minute further to fix crappy presets and you're set for the game.

Jesus Christ. Actually read my point again, please.

I literally never said that people CAN'T setup PCs. I stated that most people DON'T WANT TO.

No, you said:

Not everyone has nor wants to learn the knowledge required for PC setups and games. It's good that Microsoft are accommodating preference.

You effectively said they can't. I'm arguing that these days, it's typically supreme laziness that makes people buy consoles with the mindset of it being too much effort. Which there is no problem there but the argument that people don't know the basics of a PC and don't want to is almost nonexistent because people are coming into these fields with smartphones, and console decisions also go between "which one runs/does X better and what has X?".

Reread my first comment again. Literally everything I pointed out there is a fact that supports the idea that consoles are a purchase of convenience, while a PC is a purchase of quality.

The argument of convenience is quickly going out the window, along with Microsoft as they were pushing hard for complication to the process of just sticking a disc in, and for the next console generation, I imagine they might just try and go all the way in that direction.

And then we'll get a sequel to this.

I don't even know what I'm typing anymore. But I'll respond to your other post too!

Kibeth41:

I want you to attempt this for me. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who doesn't know anything about games. They are ONLY JUST deciding now that they want to get into gaming. Years ago you used to enjoy playing the Nintendo 64, PS1 etc, but you've been out of the technology loop for a while.

Don't make me miss the glory years man.

How are you more likely to buy a console?
-By doing research online until you see someone suggest that you find a PC distributor who will assemble a PC for you
-doing research into what components you need, why you need them, and what the best components are.
-Going into Bestbuy and seeing expensive name brand PCs
-By going into Gamestop and buying an Xbox One.

Not really posing real choices here, are you? I'd be thinking "maybe it's time to finally get into the Mustard Race considering the Xbone is underpowered and overpriced while a PS4 is a better option. But the PS4 also has most of the games I want also on PC.
...
God I hope KHIII is getting a PC release." Which is also one of my sole reasons for buying a PS4 in the future.

How much are they likely to spend?
-$300 for an Xbox One
-$600+ for a decent PC which the retailer suggests

If I want to get ripped off, sure, I'll buy a prebuilt PC retail. But in the spirit of the question, I'd be looking at what does what. A PC does a loooooot more than an Xbone. This is a similar situation to what the PS3 went through when it launched. A lot of people bought it JUST because it was one of the first(and remained the best) blu-ray players on the market, even while costing Five Hundred And Ninety Nine US Dollars.

Where is it easier to buy games?
-From various online distributrs such as Steam, Origins, Battle.net, GoG, Humblestore etc
-From the store tab of the Xbox One

Depending on who is your primary place to buy games, it's about as simple. Steam sits in the corner for me to get games and friends to tell me to "FUCKING BUY IT IT'S FUN", Origin... never touches my system, Battle.net is for Blizzard players, GoG is for dat DRM free and being able to keep your games however and whenever(major plus over consoles. If the marketplace stops being supported then you're screwed, and that time is approaching for the 360), and Humblestore typically gives me Steam keys and DRM free installers, leading back to Steam and a similar situation to GOG. It's easier based on what you do. The key here being you actually have OPTIONS.

Where is the more convenient storage place for games?
-The 'games' tab of the Xbox One
-The Steamapps folder within the programs folder within the hard drive storage location which is sitting among all of these other folders which you know you shouldn't quite touch.

Ignoring that you can install Steam and your games wherever you want, you're acting like you're ever going to go into the specific game install folder unless there is a very important reason to. Otherwise, the game sits in your Steam library page, while you can't even access the internals of the game on an Xbone, so this isn't even a comparison. You're grasping at straws trying to make it sound scary to even have a game installed.

PC fanboys who so densely and blindly deny that there is any convenience to a console are just annoying. No, there's no technical advantage to owning a console. But there is still a HUGE advantage of convenience.

An advantage that has been shrinking since the last console generation, and with the influx of upgrade consoles, might have the last nail in the coffin. You can't even buy a damn console now without running into the bogeyman that console fanboys try and flaunt around PC gamers. The Xbone was underpowered at launch and now anyone who bought it is looking in the face of not one, but TWO successors just around the corner. The era of consoles being as simple as they were quite a time ago are long, long gone and it's annoying as hell.

The issue with you people is that you're so vain that you expect yourself to be the primary demographic. Try getting off the internet, talking to real people, and you'll see that they don't want to go through all of the bullshit of buying a PC when there's an easier an alternative in the form of consoles.

I... talk to real, flesh and blood, breathing people all of the time. They're kind of annoyed as well and have taken the upgrade consoles as reason to jump ship to PC gaming because there are now so few benefits to a console for all of the bullshit you need to go through these days. I basically AM the primary demographic.

I am and have been a console guy through and through for years and all of my PCs have been extreme toasters, but because of a giant backlog of games I'd love to play at framerates that won't induce eye cancer and because of consoles basically being PCs, or even PHONES now, I've decided to just sink a good load of money into a PC that will last me for quite some time and will have the effort I put into it. Consoles stopped doing it for me when hardware just failed and I kept having to buy another because it was out of warranty and that if I replaced the broken components myself, I could be banned from online play by the manufacturer. If something on my PC stops working, I have a good warranty and I can just replace the part with ease. Well, a Mobo is slightly more of a hassle but at least I can do it.

Someone call Trump, I've made the wall and it's composed entirely of text!

Kibeth41:

Congratulations. You failed the simple task of abstract thought. Amazing.

OK.

A non PC user and occasional gamer is going to find more convenience and ease in buying a console.

That's a very niche audience considering how many people have laptops and smartphones. I don't know of a single person that has a console that doesn't have one of the other two.

You will NEVER be able to argue this point, until the basic facts I listed change. You can rabidly claim there's no benefit to consoles, but convenience is the biggest one.

They pretty much have changed. I'm having to go through a similar hell with consoles that I've had to do with toasters and it's pretty stupid.

no you're not. Again, don't be so self centered.

So someone who wanted a system that plays games with basically minimal hassle and mostly didn't do anything with PC gaming isn't the primary demographic? What is then?

No I didn't. I said not everyone has nor wants to learn the knowledge required for PC setups and games. It's good that Microsoft are accommodating preference.

Not everyone, sure. But consoles now are beginning to post the same difficulty. The accommodation is going out the window as Microsoft is trying to bring any downsides PCs have had with none of the benefit.

Either your reading comprehension is terrible, or you're constantly resorting to countless strawman arguments, weak points and outright lies simply because you don't believe your side, and you're arguing for the sake of it.

I"m primarily just annoyed that I'm apparently self centered for thinking I'm part of a target demographic I've been for a while, just because I'm stating my opinions and experiences with consoles and how I've grown tired of the issues piling up. If I'm no longer a part of this demographic because I'm tired of the hassles that have been introduced, then fine.

I'm totally a PC fanboy for wanting a system that works and doesn't pose a massive amount of hassle, like the three Xbox 360s and my PS3 have now given to me due to hardware failures and very, very cheaply made peripherals. If buying a new system every time something fucks up out of warranty is considered a benefit to convenience, then please, make everything complicated as hell so I don't need to spend $200-$300 every time something messes up that I could replace for as low as $10-$30.

Promises, promises.

Your nose is getting longer, Microsoft. I don't trust you and I have no reason to trust you.

LegendaryGamer0:
That's a very niche audience considering how many people have laptops and smartphones. I don't know of a single person that has a console that doesn't have one of the other two.

*sigh*, more strawmanning. Again, the fact that you have to resort to such things is a rather large indicator that you don't believe your own argument.

There's a rather large difference between buying a laptop or phone, and buying a custom built gaming PC.

It's a waste of time to continue this discussion. You'll just continue to blindly deny obvious facts because you're incapable of putting yourself in someone else's shoes.

Kibeth41:

*sigh*, more strawmanning. Again, the fact that you have to resort to such things is a rather large indicator that you don't believe your own argument.

I'm not sure you know what a strawman is.

There's a rather large difference between buying a laptop or phone, and buying a custom built gaming PC.

Depends what you mean by "custom", but in both possible cases, not at all if we're equating to a laptop. You're either buying a prebuilt from one of the various companies or having someone make you one, in both cases they're just powerful computers, and most laptops are just that, computers.

It's a waste of time to continue this discussion. You'll just continue to blindly deny obvious facts because you're incapable of putting yourself in someone else's shoes.

Except I do try other shoes. I had different shoes many years ago when console gaming was just putting the cartridge/disc in and bam, shit worked. Maybe a memory card at best.

Now? Nothing is anywhere quite as simple and yet the argument of consoles being just plug and play persists, when that hasn't been true since at least the sixth generation of consoles.

LegendaryGamer0:

Kibeth41:

*sigh*, more strawmanning. Again, the fact that you have to resort to such things is a rather large indicator that you don't believe your own argument.

I'm not sure you know what a strawman is.

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.

When I refer to PC ownership in the context of gaming PC/console, you twist the words to the assumption that I was referring to laptop/phone ownership and then proceed to attack that point instead. One example of its usage in your arguments. I really can't be arsed to go through your walls of text to find the plethora of others.

It's a waste of time to continue this discussion. You'll just continue to blindly deny obvious facts because you're incapable of putting yourself in someone else's shoes.

You come up with weird theories about the convenience of a console slowly dropping, but until that hits its pinnacle, then buying a console will always be a purchase of convenience due to the facts.

-To start, a regular Xbox One is cheaper than a gaming PC. Note, I'm not saying the Xbox One is BETTER. I'm saying that it's CHEAPER. $300 won't get you a very good PC.
-When you buy a PC, you either need to pay an inflated price for a prebuilt flashy PC which isn't overly powerful (e.g. an Alienware), or you need to have a relatively good amount of knowledge as to what components you need, which are better etc. To buy an Xbox, you just go into a store and pay for it.
-On PC, games are primarily bought digitally, and are generally all over the place. You'll be using Steam, Origins, Games for Windows, Battle.net, etc. Xbox games are either physical, or all stored in a singular location.
-When you play a game on PC, you'll need to mess around with the settings configuration to try and find the setup which best works on your PC at the best quality. On Xbox, all of the settings are already configured to be as good as the system can handle it.

SlumlordThanatos:
And I'm just over here, waiting for GFWL 2.0 to crash and burn.

XBone games on my PC still isn't enough to get me to get Windows 10, and I'm sure someone will figure out a workaround for those of us who wanted to remain with Windows 7 or 8.

I don't get why Windows 10 is so hated. Okay, sure, the updates are a little aggressive, but that's fixable. Also, I wouldn't be waiting for a workaround any time soon.

Also, this is not the end of the Xbox. There are millions of people out there who will still buy an Xbox, regardless of this announcement, simply because they don't want a gaming PC. It's just a means of increasing profits in areas like Japan and S. Korea, where Xbone sales have been horrendous and PC gaming is the dominant force.

I, for one, support this move. It means that I don't have to have a game confined to one system.

Might as well hit the meat here.

Kibeth41:

-To start, a regular Xbox One is cheaper than a gaming PC. Note, I'm not saying the Xbox One is BETTER. I'm saying that it's CHEAPER. $300 won't get you a very good PC.

I'll basically give you this one because Microsoft is offloading these things to make way for the S and at these prices, you can't really match Microsoft having bulk prices.

-When you buy a PC, you either need to pay an inflated price for a prebuilt flashy PC which isn't overly powerful (e.g. an Alienware), or you need to have a relatively good amount of knowledge as to what components you need, which are better etc. To buy an Xbox, you just go into a store and pay for it.

You can buy a powerful Alienware but you'll be paying about twenty times the cost of any recent console. You can however just not go through them because they are an evil company.
Otherwise, you can make it yourself, yes, or just buy a prebuilt or custom from someone who doesn't suck and charge about a thousand dollars for a CPU upgrade.

-On PC, games are primarily bought digitally, and are generally all over the place. You'll be using Steam, Origins, Games for Windows, Battle.net, etc. Xbox games are either physical, or all stored in a singular location.

Let's be serious here. Steam is where probably everybody is going to be getting all of their games, Origin only for recent EA titles and you still need to make an Origin account on consoles to even start with online play for EA titles. GFWL is actually dead and you'll only be dealing with that for older titles, probably Dark Souls.
Battle.net is for Blizzard games and you deal with extra crap for MMOs on consoles anyway if we're talking WoW which I believe does go through Battle.net, that or Hearthstone but now we're getting into exclusives or all of the same mess you generally need to go through on any platform for any of these. I don't even want to remember the hell that was managing to get Metal Gear Online(MGS4's) to even let you play.

-When you play a game on PC, you'll need to mess around with the settings configuration to try and find the setup which best works on your PC at the best quality.

And on a console you typically need to adjust simplified settings for video and audio. Even then on a PC, most games can, like mentioned by someone above, spit you a detected preset.

On Xbox, all of the settings are already configured to be as good as the system can handle it.

Or can't, when a game pushes the system too hard at the "configuration" they chose because looking pretty took priority over performance. Not having an option in this situation is not necessarily a good thing.

The convenience level is pretty much on the line depending how much you're willing to pay, ultimately. You can go into a store and buy an Xbone and just plug it in, but deal with game installs, updates, accounts, settings when the audio output isn't working correctly and you can't hear people speaking(damn the PS3), the remnants of Project $10, ect.

There is borderline nothing more complicated about a PC's use and setup that isn't done on consoles these days, and it's disgusting because none of it is needed and all of it is basically a hassle.

LegendaryGamer0:

You can buy a powerful Alienware but you'll be paying about twenty times the cost of any recent console. You can however just not go through them because they are an evil company.
Otherwise, you can make it yourself, yes, or just buy a prebuilt or custom from someone who doesn't suck and charge about a thousand dollars for a CPU upgrade.

Let's be serious here. Steam is where probably everybody is going to be getting all of their games, Origin only for recent EA titles and you still need to make an Origin account on consoles to even start with online play for EA titles. GFWL is actually dead and you'll only be dealing with that for older titles, probably Dark Souls.
Battle.net is for Blizzard games and you deal with extra crap for MMOs on consoles anyway if we're talking WoW which I believe does go through Battle.net, that or Hearthstone but now we're getting into exclusives or all of the same mess you generally need to go through on any platform for any of these. I don't even want to remember the hell that was managing to get Metal Gear Online(MGS4's) to even let you play.

Or can't, when a game pushes the system too hard at the "configuration" they chose because looking pretty took priority over performance. Not having an option in this situation is not necessarily a good thing.

I honestly can't tell if you're intentionally missing the point or what? This is honestly getting ridiculous.

-Any of the options for building/buying a PC are a good deal more complicated than buying a console. All PC options either require an inflated price or for you to go to a retailer outside of the main cluster (amazon, game, gamestop etc). You've pretty much backed up that fucking point.

-No... Steam is not used for all games. That is outright bullshit. Steam, Origins, UPlay, Battle.net will all be used. And where the fuck do you think Microsoft are distributing their Play Anywhere games from? None of the above. Oppose this to Xbox/PS4, where Diablo and Overwatch use your Xbox/PS4 account and Origins is only required for online play.

-The graphical quality is usually lower. I've literally never denied that fact. But my point is that SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THEY ARE DOING doesn't NEED to modify the graphical settings individually for EVERY. SINGLE. GAME.

but deal with game installs, updates, accounts, settings when the audio output isn't working correctly and you can't hear people speaking

Really, you buy an Xbox, you put the game in, and it automatically installs. Don't try and glorify it.

There is borderline nothing more complicated about a PC's use and setup that isn't done on consoles these days, and it's disgusting because none of it is needed and all of it is basically a hassle.

However 'complicated' it can be is entirely subjective. This isn't what this is about.

This is about CONVENIENCE. Everything about PCs is entirely more awkward than consoles. No matter how much you try and white knight its cause, you're simply wrong on almost every level.

-To start, a regular Xbox One is cheaper than a gaming PC. Note, I'm not saying the Xbox One is BETTER. I'm saying that it's CHEAPER. $300 won't get you a very good PC.
-When you buy a PC, you either need to pay an inflated price for a prebuilt flashy PC which isn't overly powerful (e.g. an Alienware), or you need to have a relatively good amount of knowledge as to what components you need, which are better etc. To buy an Xbox, you just go into a store and pay for it.
-On PC, games are primarily bought digitally, and are generally all over the place. You'll be using Steam, Origins, Games for Windows, Battle.net, etc. Xbox games are either physical, or all stored in a singular location.
-When you play a game on PC, you'll need to mess around with the settings configuration to try and find the setup which best works on your PC at the best quality. On Xbox, all of the settings are already configured to be as good as the system can handle it.

DarthCoercis:

Kibeth41:

I want you to attempt this for me. *snip*

Guess what? Once upon a time I *didn't* know anything about gaming. What did I do? I read some magazines, learned what I needed to know, and then with the help of my parents, I bought my first pc. This was in 1987.

I'm not going to waste more time on your silly scenario as you've made far too many incorrect assumptions.

[Edit] I probably should have read your other posts in the thread before I responded to you. Are you a deliberate shitposter, or are you not yet mature enough to have an actual discussion with people who don't share your point of view or call you out when you're incorrect?

Holy smokes. You put in time and effort in 1987. Good for you. Surely because YOU did it, it also means that EVERYONE else on the planet did the same thing back in 1987!!!!

Sarcasm aside. There are so many people out there who don't know much about gaming (I'm friends/family with a few, even helped one build a PC). There's no point in them reading magazines, articles or putting in the effort to do research when they have the option to literally walk into a store, and walk out with a perfectly functioning system in about 2 minutes.

And on a side note: I never made any assumptions about you. I asked you to imagine being someone else. Quite a large portion of the gaming demographic falls outside of PC users.

My choice of console is PC and Wii U FYI. I own neither an Xbox One or PS4. I'm just smart enough that I can easily see the advantage.

And no, I'm not a troll. It's just an annoyance when the people I'm arguing with are CONSTANTLY using countless logical fallacies, rather than actual points.

votemarvel:
I don't understand why people are so against Microsoft trying to create a walled garden but then brick themselves willingly into Valve's jungle.

I won't buy a game unless it is on Steam. Why? When did Valve become this massive consumer champion? You can even add non steam games to it and make use of all its features.

Hell I could understand people saying "GoG or nothing" because of the lack of DRM but Steam is DRM.

I can only speak for myself, obviously, but I think many people are of a similar mind:

I don't think that Steam/Valve are perfect, by any means, and infact I will always buy from GoG first if I can, but I would much rather buy a game on Steam than any of the other alternatives (Whatever Microsoft's current store is called, uPlay, Origin, etc) because it is - let's face it - where the majority of games are, its where my friends are, I like steam chat integration, and its just easier to have everything in one place.

I don't like the DRM aspect of steam at all, hence why I buy GoG when I can, but at least Steam isn't overtly intrusive - The only time I've ever had a problem with steam DRM actually turned out to be my fault for doing something a bit screwy to my system, whereas I could tell you some real horror stories about my experiences with uPlay and GFWL. Even when I do buy from GoG, I usually add them to steam as a non-steam game anyway, so I get the Steam Overlay.

Also, Valve is not deliberately trying to create a walled garden. Yes, they have various business practicies designed to encourage people to use their platform, but then everyone does. They don't, however, try and hoard important features (OpenVR and Source will both work just fine without Steam itself), they don't sign exclusivity deals (the game dev is always free to sell on other platforms if they wish, even if many choose not to do so). Basically its a difference of approach - Valve tries to win gamers and devs over by being the best without inherently stifling competition, admiteddly I would say GoG is actually the best but steam ranks a close second and it has more games. Conversely, Microsoft is trying to win by locking things into their ecosystem both contractually and technically, thereby forcing us to use their store and all the restrictions that comes with it whether we like it or not.

Thanks for the reply nicky.

I'm not a fan of the Windows Store either but people are giving Valve what Microsoft wants to create. If they don't want a single PC store front, then why refuse to buy from anywhere but Steam.

And you nail it on the head. You can add non Steam games to Steam, I run Mass Effect 3 through it to make use of the screenshot feature, hell you can even add Windows Store games to Steam if you wanted.

You're not the type of person I am talking about though nickpy, as you do go elsewhere to buy. I have a friend who despite loving the first two Mass Effect games, and seeing me play the third through Steam, refuses to get the game because he can't buy it from Valve's store front.

votemarvel:
I have a friend who despite loving the first two Mass Effect games, and seeing me play the third through Steam, refuses to get the game because he can't buy it from Valve's store front.

Your friend is just like me. And I use several stores but they all sell Steam keys.

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