Steam is NOT Offering Special Exceptions For No Man's Sky Refunds

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Steam is NOT Offering Special Exceptions For No Man's Sky Refunds

no mans sky 4

Valve has debunked a report that Steam was offering No Man's Sky refunds regardless of play time.

A lot of disappointed fans are looking for No Man's Sky refunds, after the game reportedly failed to deliver on many of it's in-development promises. While Sony's refund policy has always been kind of murky, Steam's is very clear: Valve will automatically refund any game for any reason if "the request is made within fourteen days of purchase, and the title has been played for less than two hours." However, reports from reddit have been claiming that Valve has been making an exception on the "two hour" rule for No Man's Sky, and was offering refunds regardless of play time. Unfortunately, Valve has now issued an official statement, debunking this report, and confirming that there is no special treatment for No Man's Sky.

"The standard Steam refund policy applies to No Man's Sky," wrote Valve on the No Man's Sky Steam page. "There are no special exemptions available. Click here for more detail on the Steam refund policy."

As for the cases in which people were able to get refunds despite playing more than two hours - it is most likely because of their direct appeals to customer service, rather than the use of the automated refund system.

No Man's Sky has brought the two hour rule under some scrutiny. Obviously, a game as expansive and slow as NMS would require more time for players to realize it didn't deliver on the promises they expected, but, if they have already sunk 10, 15, or 20 hours into the game, is it still fair for them to receive a full refund?

Source: PC Gamer

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Wow, the behind the scenes of this game just keeps getting worse all the time.

RaikuFA:
Wow, this game just keeps getting worse all the time.

That or the behaviour of entitled customers. My guess lies with the latter.

I... really don't see what'd merit the exception, to be honest.

... Or how this is somehow indicative of the game being 'even worse'.

bluegate:

RaikuFA:
Wow, this game just keeps getting worse all the time.

That or the behaviour of entitled customers. My guess lies with the latter.

Every customer is entitled. They only want everything handed to them for free.

Hmm... I wonder how hello games is going the handle the damage control for this non-controversy

When you're a victim of both your own hype and an overzealous developer, you kinda get what you deserve IMO. I knew exactly what NMS was going to be, and I enjoy what it is without having to eat my own hype, nor did I buy every word the devs tossed my way. I do feel it was more a $40 buy than $60 but I don't regret the purchase neither do I feel it was Aliens: Colonial Marines or Spore reborn.

It's not a bad game. I'd gladly pay $40 for it as is, and I'm still hopeful that updates will improve the game greatly over time.

You can get through the tutorial stuff in less than an hour. 2 is a fair experience with NMS IMHO. The internet is overreacting.

Steven Bogos:
if they have already sunk 10, 15, or 20 hours into the game, is it still fair for them to receive a full refund?

I think maybe not under their current policy. I can't think of any reason someone would sink 10+ hours of their life into something they aren't enjoying.

Regarding Steam's refund policy, that's total shit. I played NMS on a friend's PC for about 3 hours. In that time (with no help from my friend), I got off the planet (which took an hour in itself), shot some asteroids, found a space station and bought some plutonium off a robot. That's hardly enough experience to find out if you like the game enough to keep it.

I'm on team "If you've sunk more than a workday into a game you hate, please re-evaluate your time usage".

That said, I could see slow and expansive games like NMS getting an extension to, say, four hours.

bluegate:
That or the behaviour of entitled customers. My guess lies with the latter.

The devs lied, dude. Many times. This has nothing to do with entitlement.

bluegate:

RaikuFA:
Wow, this game just keeps getting worse all the time.

That or the behaviour of entitled customers. My guess lies with the latter.

In a game which sold itself on this colossal universe with an endless supply of things to do I don't see how customers wanting to play for more than 2 hours to see if the game's worth its price is particularly entitled. The fact people are defending a policy which simply doesn't work for a lot of games (both large open world games like NMS and games which are short enough to be completed in under 2 hours) purely because it's better than what Steam had before, i.e. sod all, kind of blows my mind. Are so many people that beholden to Valve that they'd rather brush off their terrible customer service as "customer entitlement" instead of asking for better?

I have no stake either way in this NMS debacle (if anything I'd prefer people got burned by this to help change this ridiculous pre-order generation we have) but this incident really highlights one of Steam's biggest shortcomings and it really shows how few f's they give any more about customer satisfaction that they refuse to address it at all.

Arnoxthe1:

bluegate:
That or the behaviour of entitled customers. My guess lies with the latter.

The devs lied, dude. Many times. This has nothing to do with entitlement.

People keep saying that but they keep not saying what the lie actually was. Every last thing I saw that actually came from Hello or Sony said "Wander planets, discover things, and if you want it too this fucker will pretty much go on forever. There's some online stuff, some trading, some crafting, some fighting, but really it's about exploring. If you like that you'll probably like this."

Then everyone seemed to decide it was gonna be the best damn thing that ever was because apparently they only heard "15 quintillion planets" and stopped listening, and were subsequently annoyed when it wasn't.

It's one thing to say I didn't enjoy the game we got and quite another to say we didn't get the game we were promised. And as a person who both feels we did and thoroughly enjoys it as well, I can absolutely understand the former but the latter really just makes no sense to me.

I used to champion their return policy, but it's really shit. If I have a choice between Steam and GOG, it's GOG all the way. They offer a 30 day money back no matter what. That two hours thing is complete shit. Two weeks is fine, but the two hours... ugh. I didn't even get off the first planet for about 3, and it was only after that I realized how shallow the game was. I have 5 hours on record... and I can't get a refund. What good is that return policy. You literally have to boot the game, then decide immediately if it's what you expected.

Edit: The whole special exception to the return policy thing... that was never true. But that is what happens when an idiot makes an article from a goddamn Reddit post. Fuckin' christ... games journalism my ass.

Its not up to Steam to catch No Man's Sky's droppings. I'm critical of Valve and their practices, sure, but Steam didn't make the game shitty.

Mike Richards:

Arnoxthe1:

bluegate:
That or the behaviour of entitled customers. My guess lies with the latter.

The devs lied, dude. Many times. This has nothing to do with entitlement.

People keep saying that but they keep not saying what the lie actually was. Every last thing I saw that actually came from Hello or Sony said "Wander planets, discover things, and if you want it too this fucker will pretty much go on forever. There's some online stuff, some trading, some crafting, some fighting, but really it's about exploring. If you like that you'll probably like this."

Then everyone seemed to decide it was gonna be the best damn thing that ever was because apparently they only heard "15 quintillion planets" and stopped listening, and were subsequently annoyed when it wasn't.

It's one thing to say I didn't enjoy the game we got and quite another to say we didn't get the game we were promised. And as a person who both feels we did and thoroughly enjoys it as well, I can absolutely understand the former but the latter really just makes no sense to me.

Well, no. Sean Murray said there would be lots of things going on that simply aren't. He talked about alliances with different races and racial standing. Lie. He talked about an in game economy that would make being a trader viable. Lie. He talked about big events and space battles where you could actually fight on the side of these capitol ships to raise your standing with a race. Lie. He talked about different and interesting life appearing on every planet. Lie again. He said that when you got to the center of the universe it would be really special. Lie. He talked about a crafting system that would be vital to your survival. Lie.

He told lots of lies. The thing that a lot of people like to concentrate on is the BS multiplayer thing. I never even cared about that. I wanted a game that would give me interesting things to talk about. This one manages not to. I'm surprised by how little animal life actually exists on any planet I have been to. I'm surprised that I find the same plants on every planet but can be called something completely different. I'm surprised by how bare bones and boring my every interaction with any aliens I meet are. I'm surprised how easy it is to destroy these mighty sentinels that prevent you from doing whatever you want on a planet and easily they drop really good plans.

I enjoyed it for a few systems, then it's the same again and again and again. You are simply flying around a planet, looking for the same buildings that contain the same things, stop at the same looking "points of interest", finding the same ships again with the same captains at the same stations.

Mike Richards:

Arnoxthe1:

bluegate:
That or the behaviour of entitled customers. My guess lies with the latter.

The devs lied, dude. Many times. This has nothing to do with entitlement.

People keep saying that but they keep not saying what the lie actually was.

Here's a big list of things that the devs said would be in the game which did not happen with sources to the exact interviews Murray made the claims in:
http://www.onemanslie.info/the-original-reddit-post/
You could argue that a lot of those are fairly tiny, but the tiny things add up to creating a universe that feels alive. One of my biggest issues with the game before it came out was that I didn't think it would feel like a living universe because you'd grow to notice the simplicity of the game's systems too quickly.

While I think people should realize that devs lie and exaggerate all the time, anti-consumer practices shouldn't be excused just because lots of companies do it. I fully expected this game to be mediocre and not live up to any of its promises because it felt like Spore all over again, but I still maintained a sliver of hope because the premise was cool.

OT: If Steam were to give special exceptions for NMS, then they'd have to take a very long look at their entire catalog. NMS is far from the worst case of false advertising in gaming, it just happens to be one of the most publicized.

*Shrug* That's what happens when the industry moves to download-only and gamers(as a whole) enthusiastically support such a move. Sometimes you'll get burned and won't even have a copy that you can sell.

People, if you enjoy NMS, that's awesome. I'd enjoy it probably, too, if I'd buy it for $10.

But if you actually catch up on the sheer amount of interviews Sean Murray gave, and if you just followed the presentations of the game at a show with some commentary and gameplay-footage, you can't say that it's on the consumer's end to inform himself. Gee, it's more than at least an hour of promotional material.
And only in the final months they actually became murky about wether or not this or that feature is in the game or not. Before that, there sure was multiplayer. There sure were unique resources distributed through a fully fledged planetary system -simulation. Of course you could be a merchant and actually feel like one similar to the X series. Etc.

By the way, I don't even own the game and didn't even give a damn about it until this debacle. I wasn't hyped at all and am not disappointed from a buyer's perspective. But this looks like deception, especially through their shift in tone from clear and open to "maybe, maybe not, dunno"-nebulous statements and the sheer amount of content that got lost.

And there isn't even much room for debate here, you have it all on video with clear statements and often representations, also you can quote the dev Sean Murray directly for a lot of the missing features, sometimes multiple times, without a hint that this was something experimental that might not even end up in the game. And again, it's not just one feature or just multiplayer.

I'm wondering what you expect people to do. The press hyped the game, the publisher hyped the game, the dev hyped the game. It didn't come from nothing. Ok, people wait until after release. Then YouTubers get bought to further hype the game, the press shills out their score system and hundreds of white knights defend it and others have something against consumers in general.

OK, you could also do it like me and wait for a fully-fledged, uncut Let's Play. But I'm a dude with lots and lots of time on his hands. So what to do?

Hahahahahaha fuck you steam and fuck you valve, after years of no refunds you finally offer a paltry refund system AT BEST I am so sick of the "Buyer Beware" argument people keep bringing up, yeah "Buyer Beware" is all fine and good until OH YEAH your dealing with a developer that LIED on multiple occasions, its called false advertising

And anyone who is seriously going to disagree with me, do me a favor, go onto youtube, and search Jimquisition: Buyers Beware and then come back and tell me "I'm wrong"

Mike Richards:
People keep saying that but they keep not saying what the lie actually was. Every last thing I saw that actually came from Hello or Sony said "Wander planets, discover things, and if you want it too this fucker will pretty much go on forever. There's some online stuff, some trading, some crafting, some fighting, but really it's about exploring. If you like that you'll probably like this."

http://www.onemanslie.info/the-original-reddit-post/

A compilation and sources of things said to be in the game by the lead designer that are either A) not in the game or B) extremely over exaggerated and unrepresentative of what's actually there. It's like someone let Peter Molyneux make a trailer for Alien Colonial Marines.

I haven't purchased No Mans Sky, nor do I plan to it's just not my type of game. But saying the devs didn't give a lot of unfulfilled promises is demonstrabley untrue.

You play a game you hate and want a refund for for like 70 hours, it's your own damn fault. You don't get a refund, slowpoke. People that want refunds after playing for so long aren't remotely entitled to them.

But that's just to shame the consumer in the equation. Steam has its own problems. It's their job to curate this mess.

Though people will probably still be able to get refunds. Steam had to put out that announcement to save face and stop confusion. People will probably still get manual refunds if their grievances are layed out properly and they say the right things. Unless Valve has specifically instructed customer support agents to stop all payments in this regard.

Eh, hard to have sympathy for people wanting refunds. The refund policy is for getting money back on games that don't work properly due to your specs being too low or bad programming. If the game isn't what you wanted, then you should have waited to see reviews before jumping on the hype wagon. With digital copies it's not like it will sell out, you can wait and see. Playing a game for 20+ hours and THEN deciding you want your money back seems disingenuous. Buyer beware, do your research before you buy

Mike Richards:
People keep saying that but they keep not saying what the lie actually was. Every last thing I saw that actually came from Hello or Sony said "Wander planets, discover things, and if you want it too this fucker will pretty much go on forever. There's some online stuff, some trading, some crafting, some fighting, but really it's about exploring. If you like that you'll probably like this."

Then everyone seemed to decide it was gonna be the best damn thing that ever was because apparently they only heard "15 quintillion planets" and stopped listening, and were subsequently annoyed when it wasn't.

It's one thing to say I didn't enjoy the game we got and quite another to say we didn't get the game we were promised. And as a person who both feels we did and thoroughly enjoys it as well, I can absolutely understand the former but the latter really just makes no sense to me.

Watch this video. Half of which is devoted to pointing out all the BS in all the pre-release information of the game.

lacktheknack:
I'm on team "If you've sunk more than a workday into a game you hate, please re-evaluate your time usage".

That said, I could see slow and expansive games like NMS getting an extension to, say, four hours.

That's, um, that's a rather short workday, I would say. XD

Then valve should tell that to their support staff as well, because people have been successfully refunding the game by opening a support ticket for the game being unsatisfactory and claiming the game did not match promotional material (which is true, the trailer on steam shows things that dont exist in the game).

Fensfield:
I... really don't see what'd merit the exception, to be honest.

Would blatant false advertisement do it for you?

Imperioratorex Caprae:
When you're a victim of both your own hype and an overzealous developer, you kinda get what you deserve IMO.

when you are a victim of false advertisement normally you get to sue the company for a hefty sum. but no, in videogames that just means your at fault because fuck consumer rights, ye?

lacktheknack:
I'm on team "If you've sunk more than a workday into a game you hate, please re-evaluate your time usage".

That said, I could see slow and expansive games like NMS getting an extension to, say, four hours.

Elders Scrolls Online game updated counted hours as hours played. This meant that people with slower internet had 4+ hours on their timer before they could even launch the game. There were multiple occasions where games kept crashing and counting hours after crashing so people who gave up and went away for the night found themselves with 12+ hours counted in the morning instead of being able to refund. The timer thing is absolutely shit limitation that should not exist (and legally cannot exist, but fuck gamers right).

Saelune:
Its not up to Steam to catch No Man's Sky's droppings. I'm critical of Valve and their practices, sure, but Steam didn't make the game shitty.

No but its up to steam to provide a customers legal right to a refund for a product that was not as advertised.

Strazdas:
Then valve should tell that to their support staff as well, because people have been successfully refunding the game by opening a support ticket for the game being unsatisfactory and claiming the game did not match promotional material (which is true, the trailer on steam shows things that dont exist in the game).

Fensfield:
I... really don't see what'd merit the exception, to be honest.

Would blatant false advertisement do it for you?

Imperioratorex Caprae:
When you're a victim of both your own hype and an overzealous developer, you kinda get what you deserve IMO.

when you are a victim of false advertisement normally you get to sue the company for a hefty sum. but no, in videogames that just means your at fault because fuck consumer rights, ye?

lacktheknack:
I'm on team "If you've sunk more than a workday into a game you hate, please re-evaluate your time usage".

That said, I could see slow and expansive games like NMS getting an extension to, say, four hours.

Elders Scrolls Online game updated counted hours as hours played. This meant that people with slower internet had 4+ hours on their timer before they could even launch the game. There were multiple occasions where games kept crashing and counting hours after crashing so people who gave up and went away for the night found themselves with 12+ hours counted in the morning instead of being able to refund. The timer thing is absolutely shit limitation that should not exist (and legally cannot exist, but fuck gamers right).

Saelune:
Its not up to Steam to catch No Man's Sky's droppings. I'm critical of Valve and their practices, sure, but Steam didn't make the game shitty.

No but its up to steam to provide a customers legal right to a refund for a product that was not as advertised.

I care more to punish the developers than the retailers.

Saelune:

Strazdas:

Saelune:
Its not up to Steam to catch No Man's Sky's droppings. I'm critical of Valve and their practices, sure, but Steam didn't make the game shitty.

No but its up to steam to provide a customers legal right to a refund for a product that was not as advertised.

I care more to punish the developers than the retailers.

And you would. The way it works is if you refund the game on steam, the money does not come out of Steams pocket, it comes out of the publishers.developers. Steam only eats the transaction fees if that.

Strazdas:

Saelune:

Strazdas:

No but its up to steam to provide a customers legal right to a refund for a product that was not as advertised.

I care more to punish the developers than the retailers.

And you would. The way it works is if you refund the game on steam, the money does not come out of Steams pocket, it comes out of the publishers.developers. Steam only eats the transaction fees if that.

Maybe. I wont pretend to know the nuts and bolts of it all. I still think some people are just venting a bit too hard on Steam for NMS's developer's faults.

Strazdas:

Imperioratorex Caprae:
When you're a victim of both your own hype and an overzealous developer, you kinda get what you deserve IMO.

when you are a victim of false advertisement normally you get to sue the company for a hefty sum. but no, in videogames that just means your at fault because fuck consumer rights, ye?

I can't tell you the amount of things promised by a dev that didn't make it into the final game. However, there's a difference between a dev talking about a game in interviews and advertisement.
World of Warcraft is notorious for promising features or content that never makes it into the game, and no explanation is given why said content isn't ever released. Promises and advertising are not the same thing.

Saelune:

Strazdas:

Saelune:
I care more to punish the developers than the retailers.

And you would. The way it works is if you refund the game on steam, the money does not come out of Steams pocket, it comes out of the publishers.developers. Steam only eats the transaction fees if that.

Maybe. I wont pretend to know the nuts and bolts of it all. I still think some people are just venting a bit too hard on Steam for NMS's developer's faults.

Yes, some are. but that does not mean all developer faults stop existing. it still lied and falsely advertised.

Imperioratorex Caprae:

Strazdas:

Imperioratorex Caprae:
When you're a victim of both your own hype and an overzealous developer, you kinda get what you deserve IMO.

when you are a victim of false advertisement normally you get to sue the company for a hefty sum. but no, in videogames that just means your at fault because fuck consumer rights, ye?

I can't tell you the amount of things promised by a dev that didn't make it into the final game. However, there's a difference between a dev talking about a game in interviews and advertisement.
World of Warcraft is notorious for promising features or content that never makes it into the game, and no explanation is given why said content isn't ever released. Promises and advertising are not the same thing.

Do you consider a game trailer on Steam to be an advertisement? because it shows things that dont exist in the game (as in, it lies).

Strazdas:

Imperioratorex Caprae:

Strazdas:

when you are a victim of false advertisement normally you get to sue the company for a hefty sum. but no, in videogames that just means your at fault because fuck consumer rights, ye?

I can't tell you the amount of things promised by a dev that didn't make it into the final game. However, there's a difference between a dev talking about a game in interviews and advertisement.
World of Warcraft is notorious for promising features or content that never makes it into the game, and no explanation is given why said content isn't ever released. Promises and advertising are not the same thing.

Do you consider a game trailer on Steam to be an advertisement? because it shows things that dont exist in the game (as in, it lies).

Not really. I looked at this from a point of view, a POV most people should have taken, that an unproven basically indie dev made grand promises above their ability to deliver and people bought it hook, line, and sinker. Fault lies with the dev for being arrogant idiots, but nothing criminal, fault also lies with every person buying into the hype and hubris.
If you see those trailers as advertising, fine. I see them as tech demos not necessarily the final product, as anyone should look at an unreleased game.
As I said, there was massive promotional material for almost every expansion for WoW claiming features and content never released in the final product. If we're to hold a small team civilly responsible for false advertisement shouldn't we hold every company that releases a game without features "advertised" to the same regard?
The only game I can think of that absolutely failed to deliver on a grand enough scale as to be considered blatantly false advertising is Aliens: Colonial Marines. NMS is still fairly well the game promised, but just not as grand as believed to be by many. And yes, many things are missing but realistically speaking the game couldn't possibly live up to those expectations. I do honestly blame gamers as much as devs because its become a culture of hype that allows these devs to arrogantly state expectations beyond ability.
I do not feel sorry for anyone, nor do I think there's any special circumstances here that warrant anything but "buyer beware" in this situation. I'm not taking up for Hello Games, just saying that gamers need to wise the fuck up or they'll keep getting taken for a ride on the back of promises undelivered. Same way I feel most folks are idiots for believing politicians can deliver 1/3 of their campaign promises.
Stop buying the bullshit, the bullshit might actually stop.

Imperioratorex Caprae:

Not really. I looked at this from a point of view, a POV most people should have taken, that an unproven basically indie dev made grand promises above their ability to deliver and people bought it hook, line, and sinker. Fault lies with the dev for being arrogant idiots, but nothing criminal, fault also lies with every person buying into the hype and hubris.
If you see those trailers as advertising, fine. I see them as tech demos not necessarily the final product, as anyone should look at an unreleased game.
As I said, there was massive promotional material for almost every expansion for WoW claiming features and content never released in the final product. If we're to hold a small team civilly responsible for false advertisement shouldn't we hold every company that releases a game without features "advertised" to the same regard?
The only game I can think of that absolutely failed to deliver on a grand enough scale as to be considered blatantly false advertising is Aliens: Colonial Marines. NMS is still fairly well the game promised, but just not as grand as believed to be by many. And yes, many things are missing but realistically speaking the game couldn't possibly live up to those expectations. I do honestly blame gamers as much as devs because its become a culture of hype that allows these devs to arrogantly state expectations beyond ability.
I do not feel sorry for anyone, nor do I think there's any special circumstances here that warrant anything but "buyer beware" in this situation. I'm not taking up for Hello Games, just saying that gamers need to wise the fuck up or they'll keep getting taken for a ride on the back of promises undelivered. Same way I feel most folks are idiots for believing politicians can deliver 1/3 of their campaign promises.
Stop buying the bullshit, the bullshit might actually stop.

Most peoples POV is they saw a new game on steam, looked at the trailer and some reviews and decided to buy or not. Fans is a minority audience.

And yes, due to false advertisement the fault is criminal. Had they not lied in their advertisement i would agree with you.

Yes, we should hold Blizzard responsible for this as well, but blizzard is one of the untouchable in the fan eyes and has a legal army that not only can let them get away with it but flat out goes after other people illegally on a regular basis.

Nah, NMS promotional material compared to release is pretty similar situation to Colonial Marines. The two are compared for a reason. ANd yes, the game Could and should have live up to those expectations. these expextations were not large. have you seen that reddit post documenting the lies? We already have games doing all of these, its not some groundbreking technology need or anything like that.

Buyer beware is an excuse for defending shitty publishers/developers. No, the gamers dont need to wise the fuck up, gamers need to sue the shit out of those companies. This shit would not fly in any other industry.

Strazdas:

Saelune:

Strazdas:

And you would. The way it works is if you refund the game on steam, the money does not come out of Steams pocket, it comes out of the publishers.developers. Steam only eats the transaction fees if that.

Maybe. I wont pretend to know the nuts and bolts of it all. I still think some people are just venting a bit too hard on Steam for NMS's developer's faults.

Yes, some are. but that does not mean all developer faults stop existing. it still lied and falsely advertised.

Imperioratorex Caprae:

Strazdas:

when you are a victim of false advertisement normally you get to sue the company for a hefty sum. but no, in videogames that just means your at fault because fuck consumer rights, ye?

I can't tell you the amount of things promised by a dev that didn't make it into the final game. However, there's a difference between a dev talking about a game in interviews and advertisement.
World of Warcraft is notorious for promising features or content that never makes it into the game, and no explanation is given why said content isn't ever released. Promises and advertising are not the same thing.

Do you consider a game trailer on Steam to be an advertisement? because it shows things that dont exist in the game (as in, it lies).

Yeah, but you make it seem like Valve knew that. Again, I don't know the nuts and bolts of it, but I cant imagine they told Valve "Hehehe, its all bs, but don't tell anyone".

Many of you are missing the point here. The game isn't just not what some people want. The game isn't just missing stuff that was promised. The game constantly crashes for many, and sometimes corrupts the save as well. Often these crashes don't start till you warp the first time, and that is one of the times that are mostly likely to cause your save game to corrupt.

Now you can easily play 10-20 hours in your first system, and the game isn't horrible at that point especially if your not crashing. It's worth a good $20 just for that I'd say. In my case I put in 30 hours before it crashed even once, and that one crash corrupted my save.

You can backup your saves, even on the Ps4, but you have to know in advance that you need to do that. This problems have not yet been fixed with all the patches, and the game is just plain unplayable for some.

I'm not sure if the save game corruptions happen on the PC as well (I had it on my ps4), but if it does, people should certainly be entitled to a refund even after playing more then 2 hours (heck even after 20 if they can't freaking warp without having their save game destroyed). Nobody is going to want to redo 20 hours of this game. I returned my copy for a full refund after playing 30 hours because I was not going to restart from scratch. I'll get it again if it gets fixed (and on the PC this time....after it's fixed only), but I won't pay for a game that doesn't work and should not have been released like this.

I really enjoyed the game, and I would have been ok paying $15-20 for what I played. I'm not ok with paying $60 for it, and it has nothing to do with not getting what was promised. It has to do with being sold a broken product and actually, finally, being able to return broken video games instead of just having to eat the cost (E.T, FFX-2, Superman 64 etc etc).

Games should NOT be released like this. They should have done enough QC and testing to find these problems and held off releasing it till it was done. It's not ok, and they should have to give refunds to everyone in my opinion.

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