Mass Effect - Andromeda's Main Characters Are Brother And Sister

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Frankster:
In dragon age 2 one of the few things i liked about it though was the sibling relationship, actually gave me some clear motivations in game.

Yet you sadly couldn't use that as a decision ingame. You had to side with either the jackboot wearing zealots or the stupid freedom fighters who justified the other faction every turn.

No 'screw y'all, I'm here to take sis/bro out' option.

Frankster:
Thing is it COULD have worked, if it wasn't the friggin fugly baby you had to care about.

I spent hours (metaphorically speaking) designing my ideal waifu, it was genuinely a darth vader nooooooooooooo moment for me when waifu gets killed 5 minutes later, all my hardwork vanishes in smoke and i have to care about the ugly baby i'm pretty sure wasn't even mine to begin with.

Anyways as a single child who always wanted a bro/sister but the one i got died a few days after being born, this opens up some wounds for me. #triggered
In dragon age 2 one of the few things i liked about it though was the sibling relationship, actually gave me some clear motivations in game.

But yeh having even part of the plot revolve around finding your sibling would be lame, have them be a support character and maybe add some personal motivation to some bits of the plot, don't have them be a princess you gotta rescue.

The thing is, in a role-playing game the developer should never force your character's opinion. I'm okay with there being a baby or a sibling, but then give me the option to not give a shit. Or at the very least allow my character to be pissy about it. I can't for example play Fallout 4 as a crazed homicidal maniac, and talk to Cogsworth without forced concern over my kidnapped son.

I don't remember much about the relationship with your siblings in Dragon Age 2, but I do sorta recall you could treat them like shit and not respect them. I certainly remember being a jerk to Carver.

Cartographer:

JohnZ117:

Ukomba:
I actually really like the idea of a brother and sister team. It's too bad the game designer is such a raging racist that I can't bring myself to buy or support the game.

Not sure about the father being in game, how does will work with the race and appearance of your character being mutable? In fact, will your siblings appearance change to match yours?

Go here.

Beautiful, aren't they?


It's tricky and up to you, but sometimes, you have to realize that artists, like other people, are imperfect, or very imperfect,

I'm not too sure what your point is?

The game is coming from a publisher who's past corporate practices are despicable.
The developer has, in my opinion at least, long since run out of steam creatively.
The creator has demonstrated himself to hold openly bigoted, racist opinions.
The previous entry in the series was a mess of broken promises, poorly implemented gameplay and missed opportunities which finished on a note that left such a sour taste in peoples' mouths that the entire ending was changed in a patch as a result of the outcry, upgrading it from openly insulting to merely bad.

Are you saying people should ignore the past in making a judgement about the likely quality, direction, themes etc. of an upcoming piece of work? Or are you indicating that it's impossible to do so, like Bob says in the video you linked, and people shouldn't try and view it in vacuum?

Please clarify.

First, if you stopped using things from corporations that did despicable things, you'd starve to death in the buff, most likely. Corporations do despicable things. And, it would take a HUGE change in the fundamental landscape of the global economy to fix that.

Second, I strongly doubt Bioware has run out, considering where they might be going with Dragon Age, based on what they did with Elven lore in the last one. They messed up with the overall world, but it was their foray into relatively new terrain, and they did interesting things with it, to me.

Third, I like chicken sandwiches from Chick-Fil-A and tacos from Chipotle, but I'm a pro-choicer who loves g.m.o. technology. I also like the Impressionist movement, as a whole, and love Face/Off and Minority Report, but hate Scientology. Hate guns, yet, you get the point. And, that makes things complicated. Figuring this out..., hasn't happened yet. Dismissing the whole because of (an important) part could make me miss out on a lot. It's not easy, it's life, so tread carefully.

Steven Bogos:

Additionally, the father of the Ryder siblings is someone we have already seen. "The character we saw two E3s ago, the N7, is actually your father. So we have got the full Ryder family revealed. We'll do names and things in the future."

calling it now james vega is going to be the dad

Ukomba:
I actually really like the idea of a brother and sister team. It's too bad the game designer is such a raging racist that I can't bring myself to buy or support the game.

Quite, heaven forbid human beings are diverse and, as someone else remarked, imperfect. Hive mode activated!

The real world is nuanced and often between two idiotically binary states; that guy's a bit of an idiot, but he's also - going from a 2014 video interview, at least - incredibly savvy and remarkably reasonable (even heading off alt-right paranoia about progressives taking away their toys, i.e. specifically stipulating no creator should be pressured into not doing another straight, white, male PC if that's what they want and feel works for their IP). But hey, where's the fun in letting complexity into self-created culture wars, amirite?

Recusant:
Because anyone who voices an unpopular opinion taints everything they touch with it, right? The world will only be acceptable when we all march in ideological lockstep! The guy said some words. Stupid words, expressing idiotic ideas, yes, and quite a few of said words. But words are just words. They may hurt feelings, but they don't hurt people. The guy may be an asshole, but, as with everyone else, it's his actions that matter, not his words. Racism is a belief. Judaism is a belief. If it's wrong to punish one, it's wrong to punish the other.

Come on, people. The world we build is the world we're going to have to live in. Is this really the way you want it? A world where expressing an unpopular opinion means no one is willing to buy the product you're associated with? A world where speaking out against the dominant thoughtline can cost you your job?

Well said. Plus, as I mentioned above; if we can judge and label a human being for a few tweets and trollsome pics (I think I want a 'white tears' mug to show support. I'm a whitey, btw), then we can also do so from 15min interviews. Doing so would reveal that - le shock! - people can be much more than one thing, more than one lazy label.

Oh, as for the brother/sister thing; I'll echo what a few have said - I hope BioWare don't make one of 'em a villain. Sure, that could be done well just like any hokey plot can, but it feels a bit lazy, conceptually. And I feel games have more than enough daddy issues to agonise over, so I really hope that's not a defining element, either.

And I know it's early... but I'm not keen on that asari character's design. The 'face tech' doesn't actually look that good, either, for her or the incredibly boring looking Ryder. Still, ME:A will live and die for me on its characters and dialogue, so clearly nothing can be discerned about either at this stage. Not really keen on the addition of platforming-lite added to an A/RPG - trying to tie good combat systems to RPG-lite systems is a challenge enough already (one that compromises both), so I don't really see silly, seemingly inconsequential jumping sections adding anything at all.

...oh, and the alien-y art style for the buildings just reminds me of Halo, which isn't exactly encouraging (I loved Halo, btw, I'd just like BioWare to do something different/new).

Casual Shinji:
The thing is, in a role-playing game the developer should never force your character's opinion. I'm okay with there being a baby or a sibling, but then give me the option to not give a shit. Or at the very least allow my character to be pissy about it. I can't for example play Fallout 4 as a crazed homicidal maniac, and talk to Cogsworth without forced concern over my kidnapped son.

I don't remember much about the relationship with your siblings in Dragon Age 2, but I do sorta recall you could treat them like shit and not respect them. I certainly remember being a jerk to Carver.

To be fair, it being a Bethesdaa RPG meant that the find baby quest is only an easily forgotten mild obligation that you can just ignore and explore anything else or build a magnificent mansion of solely public toilets instead. Even that baby search doesn't last long and evolves into something completely different. I never got the impression that it was pushing any opinions or feelings that you had to submit to to enjoy the game.

Honest question to the people defending the anti-white rhetoric, would you hold the same stance if he were a white guy saying things of this nature about any other race? I'm not trying to pull a 'gotcha!' or anything, just legitimately curious.

SirSullymore:
Honest question to the people defending the anti-white rhetoric, would you hold the same stance if he were a white guy saying things of this nature about any other race? I'm not trying to pull a 'gotcha!' or anything, just legitimately curious.

Frankly don't care. My life doesn't revolve around other people's opinions.

If he was the sole creator of the game and filled it with propaganda, then I probably wouldn't play it because it'd be boring as all hell.

But the game was made by a huge team of people with varying backgrounds and skills. If the game is worth it, then I'll buy it.

SirSullymore:
Honest question to the people defending the anti-white rhetoric, would you hold the same stance if he were a white guy saying things of this nature about any other race? I'm not trying to pull a 'gotcha!' or anything, just legitimately curious.

Lord of The Rings and many other works are created by people with some quite questionable viewpoints. I think the main issues are really if they are affecting the work in question or if the creator donates money to questionable causes...in the sense that paying for their work would be indirectly adding to funding potentially harmful causes. Doyle, the original writer of Sherlock Holmes became quite spiritual in his late life, but never let it affect his characters. So although I may disagree with his beliefs, his work still maintains integrity. Also if this Mass Effect director honestly hates white people, it hasn't been evident in any of the games so far, neither does it look evident here. :)

Steven Bogos:

SlumlordThanatos:

Ukomba:
I actually really like the idea of a brother and sister team. It's too bad the game designer is such a raging racist that I can't bring myself to buy or support the game.

I must have missed something...what are you referring to?

OT: Neat. Dragon Age II did sibling dynamics rather well, though I'm hoping it doesn't end quite as tragically as it did in DA II. I'm curious to see how it is handled, and if you get to fight alongside your sibling and Daddy-O.

I mean, I seem to be the only person here who was merely disappointed with ME3's ending and not still angry over it.

I think he is referring to this: http://heatst.com/culture-wars/mass-effect-designer-manveer-heir-hates-white-people-and-wants-the-world-to-know/

Take it as you will.

Well guess which game I won't be purchasing now? Any takers?

Thanks for the responses, I 100% agree with you both.

My question was more for the people defending the man himself, such as Darth Rosenburg saying "heaven forbid human beings are diverse and, as someone else remarked, imperfect. Hive mode activated!". I'm curious if the same would be applied to a white dev spewing anti-black rhetoric for example.

SirSullymore:
Honest question to the people defending the anti-white rhetoric, would you hold the same stance if he were a white guy saying things of this nature about any other race? I'm not trying to pull a 'gotcha!' or anything, just legitimately curious.

Simple. Does his ideological bile infest the game in the vein of something like "Hatred"? Yes? Then I'm not interested. No? Then whatever. Hundreds will work on the game and so there's guaranteed to be a hugely diverse set of opinions in it. I may disagree with the guy, but he has a right to hold his opinions as well as maintain his job provided it doesn't affect his work or ability to work with others. This is not that hard a position to hold.

Xsjadoblayde:

Casual Shinji:
The thing is, in a role-playing game the developer should never force your character's opinion. I'm okay with there being a baby or a sibling, but then give me the option to not give a shit. Or at the very least allow my character to be pissy about it. I can't for example play Fallout 4 as a crazed homicidal maniac, and talk to Cogsworth without forced concern over my kidnapped son.

I don't remember much about the relationship with your siblings in Dragon Age 2, but I do sorta recall you could treat them like shit and not respect them. I certainly remember being a jerk to Carver.

To be fair, it being a Bethesdaa RPG meant that the find baby quest is only an easily forgotten mild obligation that you can just ignore and explore anything else or build a magnificent mansion of solely public toilets instead. Even that baby search doesn't last long and evolves into something completely different. I never got the impression that it was pushing any opinions or feelings that you had to submit to to enjoy the game.

Yeah, but as soon as you talked to people that were tied to the main quest, or you simply wanted to continue the story, you were forced into the role of caring parent/grieving widow(er). You could never say something along the lines of 'I don't care about my kid' or 'He's probably already dead'. And yes, you can ignore the main quest, but for a role-playing game that's kind of aggravating.

Casual Shinji:
The thing is, in a role-playing game the developer should never force your character's opinion.

Let's be honest, beth sucks hard when it comes to rping in fallout 4 to the point it can barely be called an rpg anymore. They can't even keep their simple characterization coherent: you're all but encouraged to act in a goody two shoes way (it's hard to rp as being genuinely evil in fo4 without it clashing against the actions you do in the story), and then a dlc comes along when you become in charge of a raider gang... Even though chances are you're also the general of the minutemen, a concerned parent looking for their sibling (regardless of how douschey you are) and involved to some degree in settlement building (remember when that was supposed to be "optional?"). Double points if you're a brotherhood member, at least if you're institute aligned you can justify it as keeping the above ground people weak and divided.

100% agree with you but with beth it's more how could we have made their simplistic story work more then hoping they will actually make an rpg worthy of the name.

And yeh you could be a dousche to either of your siblings. Or get Carver to recognize he was a dousche with you.
There is much to laugh and mock about dragon age 2, but that was definitely one of the few things it did all right and let you actually rp a bit.

Imre Csete:

No 'screw y'all, I'm here to take sis/bro out' option.

No argument about those stupid factions, made me wish there was an option like you describe where you just drag your sibling out and let them sort their own bs out.
In the end i always sided with whichever faction had my sibling because that was the best emotional hook in the game the game had.

I hope you can treat your sibling like crap, because I secretly desire to roleplay as myself from my teen years.

Jokes aside, I like this. Let's see where it goes. Maybe they'll do what Fallout 4 did and have you customize both characters at the onset.

JohnZ117:

Ukomba:
I actually really like the idea of a brother and sister team. It's too bad the game designer is such a raging racist that I can't bring myself to buy or support the game.

Not sure about the father being in game, how does will work with the race and appearance of your character being mutable? In fact, will your siblings appearance change to match yours?

Go here.

Beautiful, aren't they?


It's tricky and up to you, but sometimes, you have to realize that artists, like other people, are imperfect, or very imperfect,

He's there to make a product that sells, not art.

Darth Rosenberg:

Ukomba:
I actually really like the idea of a brother and sister team. It's too bad the game designer is such a raging racist that I can't bring myself to buy or support the game.

Quite, heaven forbid human beings are diverse and, as someone else remarked, imperfect. Hive mode activated!

The real world is nuanced and often between two idiotically binary states; that guy's a bit of an idiot, but he's also - going from a 2014 video interview, at least - incredibly savvy and remarkably reasonable (even heading off alt-right paranoia about progressives taking away their toys, i.e. specifically stipulating no creator should be pressured into not doing another straight, white, male PC if that's what they want and feel works for their IP). But hey, where's the fun in letting complexity into self-created culture wars, amirite?

You don't have to add that, your comment clearly indicates you're part of a hive mind, thanks.

Sorry, am I not allowed to dislike what someone says and withhold monetary support for their projects because of it? Didn't realize not buying something on principle was grounds for insults.

JohnZ117:

Ukomba:
I actually really like the idea of a brother and sister team. It's too bad the game designer is such a raging racist that I can't bring myself to buy or support the game.

Not sure about the father being in game, how does will work with the race and appearance of your character being mutable? In fact, will your siblings appearance change to match yours?

Go here.

Beautiful, aren't they?


It's tricky and up to you, but sometimes, you have to realize that artists, like other people, are imperfect, or very imperfect,

Very nice, but guess what. I haven't and wouldn't give him money either. So not sure what your point is. Seems strange that you seem to be arguing that it's ok for a person to be racist, but not ok if I just don't want to support them financially. Were you as outraged about what happened to Brendan Eich? How about the numerous normal people out there who have gotten fired because they irritated the three letter people? I'm just voting with my wallet.

Ukomba:
You don't have to add that, your comment clearly indicates you're part of a hive mind, thanks.

Sorry, am I not allowed to dislike what someone says and withhold monetary support for their projects because of it? Didn't realize not buying something on principle was grounds for insults.

Hive mind and apparently progressively pro-diversity proud, sure.

Did you watch this interview from 2014 (not sure if there are others out there)? Did you acquire a balanced take on the guy? You're free to boycott whatever you wish (they'll have no impact, mind), but doing so off the back of a few dumb tweets seems like a peculiar overreaction. Do you see only labels, not nuanced individuals?

kurupt87:

JohnZ117:
snipped

He's there to make a product that sells, not art.

Art has been sold for money (before, during, and after the fact) for as long as money has existed. The fact that it will be put up for sale does not negate it being art.

Recusant:
Judging from the reaction I saw to Fallout 4's announcement that your character would actually have some elements of being a character, rather than a blank cipher to imprint yourself upon, I don't think this will end well. But maybe people will be more accepting of that sort of thing in a Mass Effect game than a Fallout one. It certainly gives a bit of potential for background and plot hooks; not that EA's ever been great with those. Unfortunately, that's not the only problem here...

Ukomba:
I actually really like the idea of a brother and sister team. It's too bad the game designer is such a raging racist that I can't bring myself to buy or support the game.

Because anyone who voices an unpopular opinion taints everything they touch with it, right? The world will only be acceptable when we all march in ideological lockstep! The guy said some words. Stupid words, expressing idiotic ideas, yes, and quite a few of said words. But words are just words. They may hurt feelings, but they don't hurt people. The guy may be an asshole, but, as with everyone else, it's his actions that matter, not his words. Racism is a belief. Judaism is a belief. If it's wrong to punish one, it's wrong to punish the other.

Come on, people. The world we build is the world we're going to have to live in. Is this really the way you want it? A world where expressing an unpopular opinion means no one is willing to buy the product you're associated with? A world where speaking out against the dominant thoughtline can cost you your job?

I don't know. Lets says, someone like... I don't know... David Duke comes out in support of a presidential candidate (Who didn't go out and seek or hire the man like is the case here). Would David Duke having an unpopular opinion taint everything he touches? Would said presidential candidate need to distance himself from and condemn him as to try to avoid being tared with the same brush?

JohnZ117:

kurupt87:

JohnZ117:
snipped

He's there to make a product that sells, not art.

Art has been sold for money (before, during, and after the fact) for as long as money has existed. The fact that it will be put up for sale does not negate it being art.

Darth Rosenberg:

Ukomba:
You don't have to add that, your comment clearly indicates you're part of a hive mind, thanks.

Sorry, am I not allowed to dislike what someone says and withhold monetary support for their projects because of it? Didn't realize not buying something on principle was grounds for insults.

Hive mind and apparently progressively pro-diversity proud, sure.

Did you watch this interview from 2014 (not sure if there are others out there)? Did you acquire a balanced take on the guy? You're free to boycott whatever you wish (they'll have no impact, mind), but doing so off the back of a few dumb tweets seems like a peculiar overreaction. Do you see only labels, not nuanced individuals?

Gah, you're reaching so hard to virtue signal it's painful.

The discussion here isn't even about diversity and I'm not sure how you've managed to make that logical leap of faith. Unless you're somehow equating the hating a specific race of people with diversity (In which case you must really be applauding the kkk for their progressive pro-diversity stance), it's a non-sequitur and done to muddy the waters and try to take the moral high ground.

Save you're two year old interview his racist statements are more recent. Maybe he was more reasonable in 2014, but his more recent statments is why I'm not supporting his product.

Ukomba:
The discussion here isn't even about diversity and I'm not sure how you've managed to make that logical leap of faith. Unless you're somehow equating the hating a specific race of people with diversity (In which case you must really be applauding the kkk for their progressive pro-diversity stance), it's a non-sequitur and done to muddy the waters and try to take the moral high ground.

Save you're two year old interview his racist statements are more recent. Maybe he was more reasonable in 2014, but his more recent statments is why I'm not supporting his product.

Given Manveer's very much keen to explore diversity in gaming, yes, discussions about him clearly can and do involve issues of diversity and progressive values. I don't buy that the people boycotting ME:A because of his involvement care about racism (which a 'white tears' mug isn't) at all - I see a certain group or groups reacting because of who he is, and what he actually cares about. But, moving on.

Manveer's silly tweets don't tell me anything about him, other than social media turns people into muppets who should step back from their keyboards/phones more often.

Given you're fond of using signalling and reception analogies/metaphors; 140 characters are surely little more than worthless noise (how many intelligent dialogues occur on Twitter? how much nuance can a single tweet encompass?) - a 15min interview with another human being (a white male, no less. fancy that! Adam may even be straight. it's a true wonder Manveer didn't set about him with a chair... ) about how he sees the industry and medium, and what he wants out of his engagement with both certainly counts as signal. He comes across as measured to all perspectives, and not at all dogmatic.

I assume every comment from every creator which offends your sensibilities enough also gets a 'boycott'? Musicians, filmmakers, etc? If Manveer's intent is to create demonstrably racist content, then a stance against it would be principled, and I'd very likely join you. But I'm pretty damn sure no BioWare game published by EA, of all people, is going to support racist propaganda (the video shown featured a white male, no less... ).

In which case, you're just objecting to witterings on Twitter. Which seems--- odd, and a little bit needless/futile, especially if it turns out to be a decent game as well.

Darth Rosenberg:

Ukomba:
The discussion here isn't even about diversity and I'm not sure how you've managed to make that logical leap of faith. Unless you're somehow equating the hating a specific race of people with diversity (In which case you must really be applauding the kkk for their progressive pro-diversity stance), it's a non-sequitur and done to muddy the waters and try to take the moral high ground.

Save you're two year old interview his racist statements are more recent. Maybe he was more reasonable in 2014, but his more recent statments is why I'm not supporting his product.

Given Manveer's very much keen to explore diversity in gaming, yes, discussions about him clearly can and do involve issues of diversity and progressive values. I don't buy that the people boycotting ME:A because of his involvement care about racism (which a 'white tears' mug isn't) at all - I see a certain group or groups reacting because of who he is, and what he actually cares about. But, moving on.

Irrelevant. His desire to explore diversity in gaming has nothing to do with the issue at hand. It's like arguing that you hate kids because you don't like David Duke just because David Duke volunteers at orphanages on the weekend. I know you're desperately trying to turn this into an argument you're more comfortable with, but that isn't happening. Some rando's issue with him putting a black character in a game IS NOT RELEVANT. The stupid white tears mug isn't even the issue, he's makes frequent of anti-white, hateful, race bating tweets.

Darth Rosenberg:
Manveer's silly tweets don't tell me anything about him, other than social media turns people into muppets who should step back from their keyboards/phones more often.

Given you're fond of using signalling and reception analogies/metaphors; 140 characters are surely little more than worthless noise (how many intelligent dialogues occur on Twitter? how much nuance can a single tweet encompass?) - a 15min interview with another human being (a white male, no less. fancy that! Adam may even be straight. it's a true wonder Manveer didn't set about him with a chair... ) about how he sees the industry and medium, and what he wants out of his engagement with both certainly counts as signal. He comes across as measured to all perspectives, and not at all dogmatic.

On the contrary, his tweets show that, unfiltered, he has a deep seeded bias and possibly even hatred of, white people. The fact that he can reign it in for 15 minutes to give a positive impression in an interview is meaningless. By your reasoning, Mel Gibson is just fine because he's never said anything objectionable in an interview. Sure when off came he says a lot of anti-semetic s*** but look at his interview!

Darth Rosenberg:

I assume every comment from every creator which offends your sensibilities enough also gets a 'boycott'? Musicians, filmmakers, etc? If Manveer's intent is to create demonstrably racist content, then a stance against it would be principled, and I'd very likely join you. But I'm pretty damn sure no BioWare game published by EA, of all people, is going to support racist propaganda (the video shown featured a white male, no less... ).

In which case, you're just objecting to witterings on Twitter. Which seems--- odd, and a little bit needless/futile, especially if it turns out to be a decent game as well.

If they show a history of promoting something I disagree with then yes. It's not a formal boycott, I just avoid promoting and financially supporting those creators. Unlike certain sjw websites where people can get together to righteously dox then gang up and get people who say things they don't like fired, I just withhold my money.

Dr. Crawver:

SirSullymore:
Honest question to the people defending the anti-white rhetoric, would you hold the same stance if he were a white guy saying things of this nature about any other race? I'm not trying to pull a 'gotcha!' or anything, just legitimately curious.

Simple. Does his ideological bile infest the game in the vein of something like "Hatred"? Yes? Then I'm not interested. No? Then whatever. Hundreds will work on the game and so there's guaranteed to be a hugely diverse set of opinions in it. I may disagree with the guy, but he has a right to hold his opinions as well as maintain his job provided it doesn't affect his work or ability to work with others. This is not that hard a position to hold.

Hmm, maybe I'm not asking the question correctly. See, I never asked about supporting a product if you take umbrage with the seller, I don't think it should effect your enjoyment of it.

This question was posed for the people who were excusing the mans comments. Saying the only reason he is being scrutinized was because his words are non-conformist or maverick and that we shouldn't judge him entirely based on his comments in one area. My question was would those principles hold true if, for example he, was a white guy ranting about how all Muslims are terrorists.

JohnZ117:

Cartographer:

JohnZ117:

Go here.

Beautiful, aren't they?


It's tricky and up to you, but sometimes, you have to realize that artists, like other people, are imperfect, or very imperfect,

I'm not too sure what your point is?

The game is coming from a publisher who's past corporate practices are despicable.
The developer has, in my opinion at least, long since run out of steam creatively.
The creator has demonstrated himself to hold openly bigoted, racist opinions.
The previous entry in the series was a mess of broken promises, poorly implemented gameplay and missed opportunities which finished on a note that left such a sour taste in peoples' mouths that the entire ending was changed in a patch as a result of the outcry, upgrading it from openly insulting to merely bad.

Are you saying people should ignore the past in making a judgement about the likely quality, direction, themes etc. of an upcoming piece of work? Or are you indicating that it's impossible to do so, like Bob says in the video you linked, and people shouldn't try and view it in vacuum?

Please clarify.

First, if you stopped using things from corporations that did despicable things, you'd starve to death in the buff, most likely. Corporations do despicable things. And, it would take a HUGE change in the fundamental landscape of the global economy to fix that.

Second, I strongly doubt Bioware has run out, considering where they might be going with Dragon Age, based on what they did with Elven lore in the last one. They messed up with the overall world, but it was their foray into relatively new terrain, and they did interesting things with it, to me.

Third, I like chicken sandwiches from Chick-Fil-A and tacos from Chipotle, but I'm a pro-choicer who loves g.m.o. technology. I also like the Impressionist movement, as a whole, and love Face/Off and Minority Report, but hate Scientology. Hate guns, yet, you get the point. And, that makes things complicated. Figuring this out..., hasn't happened yet. Dismissing the whole because of (an important) part could make me miss out on a lot. It's not easy, it's life, so tread carefully.

So your point is...?

You seem to have a very black and white view of the world, like everything exists as a binary choice with no nuance whatsoever; you're either 100% for or 100% against.

Just, based on what you've written I can't even begin to tell which. I think you're saying we should give everything a chance regardless of history, past failures and opinions of previous output? Is that correct?

SirSullymore:

Hmm, maybe I'm not asking the question correctly. See, I never asked about supporting a product if you take umbrage with the seller, I don't think it should effect your enjoyment of it.

This question was posed for the people who were excusing the mans comments. Saying the only reason he is being scrutinized was because his words are non-conformist or maverick and that we shouldn't judge him entirely based on his comments in one area. My question was would those principles hold true if, for example he, was a white guy ranting about how all Muslims are terrorists.

not sure if the "maverick" there is referring to me, but I feel I will answer the question.

1) if he were *insert color here* talking about how all muslims are terrorists, I'd find that just as deplorable (which is why I can't stand trump, for example.)

I hope I don't come across like I was excusing the man's comments, judging by his history of comments, I think he's a deplorable asshat that needs to be knocked down a few pegs and get some sense knocked into him about the shit he says...However, is he a main driving force in bioware/this game? Does the game reflect his bullshit or is it compartmentalized and does not affect the game?

I think there are multiple factors to consider before giving/not giving someone your money, due to biowares track record I wasn't keen on buying andromeda in the first place, but him being part of it certainly solidified that decision.

I don't like all this family business, militarily is unrealistic, Unless they all live in a colony ship or something, no military would every put a brother and sister on the same ship.

Their one chance of getting me back was letting me be a Krogan or Turian.

The fan fiction writers must be rubbing their hands together with glee as we speak.

As for the game itself, I barely care. Whatever remaining faith I had in Bioware after the ME3 fiasco was remorselessly crushed under the stupefying mediocrity of Dragon Age Inquisition. Maybe I'll pick up a copy from the $10 bin in a year's time, otherwise no sale.

So who's doing the voices of the Ryder twins? Based on the video I'm guessing Male!Ryder is Nolan North (if anyone knows feel free to correct me) but since I exclusively played Fem!Shep I'd like to know who's giving the Fem!Ryder her voice.

JohnZ117:

kurupt87:

JohnZ117:
snipped

He's there to make a product that sells, not art.

Art has been sold for money (before, during, and after the fact) for as long as money has existed. The fact that it will be put up for sale does not negate it being art.

You have it backwards my friend.

Just because some may consider it art, does not mean it's primary role is not that of a highly marketable product.

Cartographer:

JohnZ117:

Third, I like chicken sandwiches from Chick-Fil-A and tacos from Chipotle, but I'm a pro-choicer who loves g.m.o. technology. I also like the Impressionist movement, as a whole, and love Face/Off and Minority Report, but hate Scientology. Hate guns, yet, you get the point. And, that makes things complicated. Figuring this out..., hasn't happened yet. Dismissing the whole because of (an important) part could make me miss out on a lot. It's not easy, it's life, so tread carefully.

So your point is...?

You seem to have a very black and white view of the world, like everything exists as a binary choice with no nuance whatsoever; you're either 100% for or 100% against.

Just, based on what you've written I can't even begin to tell which. I think you're saying we should give everything a chance regardless of history, past failures and opinions of previous output? Is that correct?

So, you've come to a conclusion based on very small sample size of opinions selected to illustrate (ironically) the difficulty of accepting the grayness of this society for me or anyone... that's a bad case study. My point is, taking the extreme path, dismissing the art because of the "imperfections" of (one of) its artist(s) may do you more harm than you can realize.

kurupt87:

JohnZ117:

kurupt87:

He's there to make a product that sells, not art.

Art has been sold for money (before, during, and after the fact) for as long as money has existed. The fact that it will be put up for sale does not negate it being art.

You have it backwards my friend.

Just because some may consider it art, does not mean it's primary role is not that of a highly marketable product.

The statue "David" and the fresco "The Last Supper" both were commissioned before their creation by artists wanting and needing money to by things like food. Does that mean they shouldn't be considered works of art?

I liked the Hawk sibling interaction. Wish they had a more fleshed out ending.
Anyway I'm cool with this.

Game seems fine to me thus far. Looking forward to it.

As for the racist: The game is made by hundreds of people, not one. Boycotting it because one of them is an asshole seems overzealous. I personally would sack him since he is tarnishing the company's reputation.

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