Report: Nintendo Switch Isn't as Powerful as a PS4

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 NEXT
 

008Zulu:
We are at the point where graphics seem to be the most important factor in games. If the Switch can't deliver, then it won't find mainstream acceptance.

Except, we're not.

A tablet isn't as powerful as a dedicated stationary black box. Shocking revelations.

A bit disappointing, but I hope this means the battery life will be good.

Moore's law ceased to be true this year so the difference between the very latest chips and the second latest chip should on the graphics side not be *that* big of a difference, and historically the most graphically advanced consoles are not the ones who have sold the best, so I don't think it is unreasonable that Nintendo can go by with "sufficiently" good graphics. It's battery life that worry me.

I see the Switch as Nintendo preparing for a console less future, and their value added feature would then be that it can be taken and played anywhere; if they screw up that part of the equation it will just be another console with a cumbersome controller. So it's reports of battery life that I am on the look-out for.

Xman490:
Well, it is just a tablet with attachable buttons and sticks.
It is an original system.
And it is going to flop.

When nyou consider that there's a finite number of smart devices a person is willing to lug around. They already have a samsung or ipad, or a smart phone. And let's face it. The 3ds is a better fit for mobile gaming.

What nintend o is trying to do is merge the console and hand held markets into one... which is why their stock prices took a hit because analysts knew that would ammount to a contraction as opposed to an expansion.

Not really sure that anyone expected a tablet to have the same specs as a PS4. That being said, Im also not really sure what market this thing is even aimed at. Though, if it doesnt have the same specs as a PS4, then I highly doubt that it is going to pull in the 3rd party developers for the big AAA games.

Eclipse Dragon:
My own opinion of Nintendo aside, maybe this is more of an issue with third party devs?

I don't understand why most devs are obsessed with looking pretty anyway. It's not an issue for Atlus and look how much profit they make, whereas devs such as Square constantly over bloat their budgets, Tomb Raider sold 3.4 million copies and did not meet expectations. At this point, it feels like any dev that makes games for consoles and pushes graphics before all else must be allergic to money.

Games don't even need to be ultra realistic in order to be pretty, Okami and Windwaker have aged beautifully.

Power was never the main selling point of consoles, it was ease of use. With every generation becoming more and more like restricted PCs, they are destroying the reason for their own existence. If devs want to make the hardware melt, maybe they should just bite the bullet and make PC games.

A significant amount of market research has concluded that millennials are attracted to the "latest technological devices" as well as "achievements for trivial tasks". Since millennials currently fall into the age group with the most "disposable income", many game developers are concerned with making games that appeal to that group. A game that is "last gen" or "too hard" will be seen as a "significant risk" from a financial standpoint.

I realize you can point out any number of titles that do not follow this trend. By and large, the most "profitable" games do follow this trend. So, any game studio in the clutches of a corporate mentality will go "where market research says the most money is".

The people who are going "oh but its not about them graphics!"...

Its not only about the graphics, its about the entire system performing rather poorly.

Wich then made the plattform very unatractive to AAA developers since it was nigh impossible to port their AAA games to it. Does anyone remember dead rising for the Wii? Even capcom couldnt pull it off.. the game was horrible compared to its other versions.

Nintendo allways wants to have its cake and eat it too... but thats not how the modern gaming world functions!

No ones going to develope a AAA title exclusively for one console only, especially one with such a limited (compared to having the big 3) market as nintendo currently has. (unless nintendo themselves foot the bill, but seeing that nintendo ALSO developes their own games thats not going to happen very often during the lifecycle of one of their consoles)

Splitscreen coop? Wich AAA game of the last couple of years had that? And who really wants to play splitscreen on a tiny tablet using flimsy small controllers that seem to be using their own batteries? (even more batteries that can run out of charge... dont forget to buy the official nintendo recharging station for 49.99 or invest heavily into batteries!)

You will have mario cart and smash brothers for that function... thats it...

It also doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that the sliding parts on the thing will eventually become loose the more you use it, thats how it works with plastic especially if you use it in its portable form alot. (remember to buy the official nintendo classic controller for another 49.99)

Also a DS is a rather solid construction, the screens are protected from scratches rather nicely if you fold it together. making it easy to take everywhere you go even if you just put it into a backpack. And yet i still cant imagine one single scenario where i would simply sit outside and play my DS in public. Im sorry but that is such an unlikely scenario.

And yet that scenario is exactly what they use as a sales argument? Taking your 300+ dollar tablet thats allmost all screen with no protection to places where it can easaly get damaged, stolen or scratched up so you can show off infront of your friends who will more likely laugh about your poor purchase desicion? (Better buy the official nintendo switch carry sheath... only 39.99)

And then theres the fact that nintendo is so paranoid about piracy that they are going to force everyone who wants to develope for their plattform to use SD cards. A move that makes the switch even more unattractive for 3rd party support since now they have to develope for Disc AND SD card and also pay for two different factory lanes... and the SD will cost them extra since theres no way they can order the same bulk amount for the switch cause compared to the other 3 it has a rather limited consumer base from the getgo. (dont forget to buy the official nintendo SD card pouch, only 29.99!)

As i said before: Handhelds dont sell. People who play mobile games are NOT looking for 60 $ AAA games, they look for things like candy crush, peggle and other time wasters. They do not want to play skyrim on teeny weeny screens. That the DS did so well in comparison to the PsP and Vita is more due to the fact that pokemon and animal crossing are still a thing and that many japanese developers like atlus, square and capcom supported the DS, thanks to nintendo striking exclusive deals with these (also compared to a big console its rather on the cheap side and ofcourse cheap to develope for) But when people buy a 300$ console they expect more. Theres a huge difference in buying a 40 dollar game now and then for your dusty DS then to look at your 300 $ switch everyday and noticing that you have nothing to play on the bloody thing and how stupid you feel for actually buying one, afterall the Wii and Wii U had the same damn problem.

Now dont get me wrong, nintendo is not going anywhere...

But i do believe that their days as console manufacturers are rather limited.

x

Guffe:

Then again, I really wonder who actually thought Nintendo would come out with a some sort of superpowerful machine. Hasn't really been part of their MO, so to say.

Not recently anyway. The 8 bit NES was supposedly better than the 8 big sega machine, 16 SNES more powerful than the Sega offering, but developers figured out how to use a chip meant for timing to add even more processing power (For Starfox). The N64 was much more powerful than the PS1 (but its continued dependence upon cartridges killed them that round). Gamecube much faster, sturdier and more powerful than the PS2. But they lost. I think that's when they decided power wasn't everything.

I'm not surprised about the Switch's power. It's a tablet and a small one at that. And it is supposed to compete with a device the size of a briefcase?

I hope it does well.

Laggyteabag:
Im also not really sure what market this thing is even aimed at.

The spontaneous rooftop party demographic, duh.

They've put themselves into a tough situation, but they're making the same mistakes to try to get out of it, it seems. Rushing anything to market has never really worked out for them.

To everyone saying, "no shit it's a handheld", keep in mind that they could have gotten NVIDIA's newer chip, a mobile gaming chip, that would match or beat the PS4. The ps4 is weak, and years old now; it would not have been difficult.

It's a handheld console with a home dock, of course it's not. Was anyone really expecting it to? It's like comparing Laptop and Desktop computers.

Eclipse Dragon:
Snip

I agree entirely, don't need to convince me :) Consoles are kind of phasing themselves out in a weird way aren't they.

TheSniperFan:

Charcharo:
TFlops have little to do with real world gaming performance

I wonder which marketing department first came up with using FLOPS in their marketing. FLOPS are a perfectly fine way to measure the performance of hardware (certainly much better than (M/G)Hz), but it doesn't help anyone for a variety of reasons:

  1. the average gamer doesn't really know what it means
  2. even among those people who do, only very few have a feeling for the order of magnitude
  3. it measures the performance of the hardware, which doesn't tell you a whole lot about the performance of the games running on it later

Tell me about it. My workstation graphics card has only 5.2 TFLOPS of single precision power compared to the 8 point something on an acquaintance's GTX 1080 yet I completely murder him in every single OpenGL and 3D viewport application; He still insists that I am somehow cheating. There are so many other factors at play that using FLOPS for accurately determining the raw potential of a piece of hardware in a software application is incredibly rare and gaming is not one of those applications.

Living_Brain:
To everyone saying, "no shit it's a handheld", keep in mind that they could have gotten NVIDIA's newer chip, a mobile gaming chip, that would match or beat the PS4.

And how much would it have hiked the price of the console?

KoudelkaMorgan:
The controller looking about as comfortable to hold as a Dreamcast one isn't going to help much either.

Hopefully it will amount to more than being the "Breath of the Wild box."

And Skyrim Go.

L34dP1LL:

KoudelkaMorgan:
The controller looking about as comfortable to hold as a Dreamcast one isn't going to help much either.

Hopefully it will amount to more than being the "Breath of the Wild box."

And Skyrim Go.

oh yeah. that five years old game that everyone and their mom played. whose main selling point were the mods. things that if nintendo allow on their device, i will eat my shirt.

i really dont get who they are releasing skyrim for. eveyone who wanted it got the vanilla and/or legendary version on the 360, ps3 and pc. and then they all got the special edition too. so who is this going to sell to?

Guffe:
Besides, if consoles start with "upgradeable machinery" they will surely make custom pieces which cost a ton more than computer parts.

Then we will see games locked out unless the player has Version 3 of the console with X, Y and Z optional upgrades.

Charcharo:
TFlops have little to do with real world gaming performance

True, but the speed in which they are processed, do.

Kibeth41:
Except, we're not.

If we weren't, then why aren't games like Overwatch or CS:GO all low res games?

In response to the sentiment of "it's a handheld, there's no problem with this" I think your point is being drowned out by the sound of third party support dying off for this thing before it's even released. A huge chunk of the core market Nintendo is yet again trying to appeal back to is dying off with it.

As someone who is currently in the industry working on a game, I can say that having to worry about optimization can make or break a port. It's why you have never heard the name of a game engine that natively exports to Wii or Wii U, but most things will compile for Linux now - despite the audience probably being not even 1% the size of Nintendo's. A lot of teams won't want to spend months working to downgrade their game from development machines to PS4 (which is already difficult and time consuming), and then further to the Switch.

Of course, it all depends on the end hardware specs, and exactly *how* much worse it is, but it's not a good sign to get this early. This could easily start the signal of the 9th console generation here and it's already weaker than the 8th. It's not exactly the 'best foot forward'.

008Zulu:

Charcharo:
TFlops have little to do with real world gaming performance

True, but the speed in which they are processed, do.

Uhm... not how it works.

Also comparing such a vague (for games) term as FLOPS between 2 different architectures (AMD GCN and Nvidia's soon to be gimped mobile version of Maxwell) is kind of useless.

008Zulu:

Guffe:
Besides, if consoles start with "upgradeable machinery" they will surely make custom pieces which cost a ton more than computer parts.

Then we will see games locked out unless the player has Version 3 of the console with X, Y and Z optional upgrades.

This could very well be true.
But I can't see a way in which the consoles can use any/all hardware either, since that would just mean they are normal PCs.
There must be some restriction or specific hardware if they want to call is a "Playstation" or "Xbox" and to be able to have exclusive content.

Gorfias:
x

Guffe:

Then again, I really wonder who actually thought Nintendo would come out with a some sort of superpowerful machine. Hasn't really been part of their MO, so to say.

. Gamecube much faster, sturdier and more powerful than the PS2. But they lost. I think that's when they decided power wasn't everything.

I hope it does well.

The GC more powerful than the PS2 O.o
I had always thought that that era was when Sony went past Nintendo in terms of power in the machine.
You learn something new every day :D

008Zulu:

Kibeth41:
Except, we're not.

If we weren't, then why aren't games like Overwatch or CS:GO all low res games?

The fact that you use such a weak term really shows that you don't quite know what you're talking about (I don't even mean that in an offensive way), and it really doesn't support your point.

Saying 'low res' is just so vague and oversimplified. I don't have the time to go into all of the intracacies of game development. What is it you don't think is low res? As someone with an entire harddrive filled with high res screenshots of Overwatch's assets, that a lot of them do use pretty darn low resolution textures, and low poly models.

Overwatch and Go are optimised for the lowest end systems of their generation (including a couple of other factors such as projected profits, age ratings, demographic etc). Unless there's a stylistic or budget choice involved, you optimise the game for the lowest end system for maximum profits. Anything else is just pointless.

It's equally easy to make a game look polished than it is to make it low poly, to a certain degree (e.g. A game like Thomas Was Alone crosses far over that threshhold). Overwatch and Go wouldn't be bigger games if they were "low res" as you put it.

I'm not even sure you know what your point is. Because with the success of so many ugly games (e.g. 7 days to die). It's just overly evident that graphics aren't the most important thing to gamers.

Guffe:

The GC more powerful than the PS2 O.o
I had always thought that that era was when Sony went past Nintendo in terms of power in the machine.
You learn something new every day :D

Nope. That was the next gen with the PS3 curb stomping the Wii. That was a tougher Gen for me to pick a winner. Wii consoles sold extremely well and they weren't even HD! They were bought by casual gamers (some from my own family). The PS3 got off to a horrible start but by the end of that gen it was really catching on.

The Cube came out about a year after the PS2, giving Nintendo time to do what Microsoft is doing now with the Scorpio (taking an extra year to develop more power at a doable price).

Example from Resident Evil 4

When PS2 outsold Xbox and Gamecube by about 4 to 1, everyone's business models changed. While the difference in power is easy to see, the PS2 version still did what it needed to do.

And Wii, and then Wii U, did what they need to do in terms of power. I think the Switch will as well. But will people buy it? I hope so. I love these 3 competitor (4 if you include PC) "wars" because we consumers win. (Or lose in a way:-). I keep buying all four. Truly not sure if I will this time. My PC library alone is out of control and so am I.)

Johnny Novgorod:

Laggyteabag:
Im also not really sure what market this thing is even aimed at.

The spontaneous rooftop party demographic, duh.

And don't forget:
The street ball players who would rather stop their game of real basketball to awkwardly huddle around the center of the court to play low fidelity digital basketball.
The over-acting 20-somethings in the back of a cab who have a nostalgic yearning for something they never actually experienced as children.

As much as I didn't expect Nintendo to put out the most powerful console of this generation, they're entering the next gen years before the competition with a console that's less powerful than the current one. That being said, its more due to the Wii U failing than the need for a new console generation in general.

008Zulu:

Kibeth41:
Except, we're not.

If we weren't, then why aren't games like Overwatch or CS:GO all low res games?

Because people like good graphics AND good gameplay.

You do realize that there are plenty of great games that have superb graphics and gameplay that's as fun as Nintendo games right? I never got the frankly poorly though out argument of "games aren't all about graphics". Its usually used to state that games that focus on graphics sacrifice gameplay when that's not even remotely accurate in today's gaming market.There are more games than ever before, and a LOT of the games with great graphics are still insanely fun to play.

I get that Nintendo doesn't have to have the most powerful console out to show that games can be fun, but when the competition (which hasn't all but ruined its relationship with 3rd party publishers) has consoles with libraries of great games that look great, play great, sound great, and have great stories, the "but graphics don't matter" argument just comes off as kind of smug and condescending to any gamer have any kind of judgement on a 9th generation console not being as powerful as the 4 year old current 8th generation.

It does not help you to dismiss the fact that all consoles game games that play great. Nintendo isn't the only company capable of making games with awesome gameplay. We're also talking about a form of entertainment that's in the tech industry, which has always been about what technical boundaries can be pushed.

The power of the console isn't just about how good the games will look. It also has a lot to do with *spoiler alert*, how well a game plays. It means that whatever 3rd party games that show up on the Switch won't look as good or play as good as other consoles/PC. Other than 1st party games and this handheld console gimmick, the Nintendo Switch is going to appeal to Nintendo fans and not anyone else.

If you think of this as the sequel to the 3DS and not the Wii U, it being less powerful at the benefit of hooking up to a tv and being handheld simultaneously is an agreeable proposition.

Now, do we know if this thing is gonna be region locked or not? That is the only thing I care for. Graphics plateud in the ps3 era already, now we live or die on unique artstyles such as what makes games like Okami or Darkest Dungeon visually appealing without requiring Crysis 3 level technology to do so. You don't need a more powerful system than that for most things and even VR is going for ps3 era visuals and considers them decent enough.

What is an issue is wether we have to abide by Nintendo of America and their censorious motherfuckery or not.

AzrealMaximillion:
Because people like good graphics AND good gameplay.

If the console can't do modern games at a playable rate, where's the incentive to buy?

Charcharo:
2 different architectures

Compare the performance reviews of the Maxwell and Pascal chips, then say there is no difference.

Guffe:

But I can't see a way in which the consoles can use any/all hardware either, since that would just mean they are normal PCs.

They wouldn't. You'd need to have a nVidia 1080 video card (for example) designed for each different console. I am sure nVidia is planning the celebration party in anticipation for all that extra work.

Kibeth41:
It's just overly evident that graphics aren't the most important thing to gamers.

On Steam, Witcher 3 has almost 80,00 OP reviews. A cursory examination of the reviews all praise the games graphics. 7 Days has less than half that, and they are only VP. From the reviews of 7 I did read, almost none praise it's graphics. Bethesda's Doom, 20,000 VP, the reviews I read all mention how good the game looks. So it would seem that graphics are far more important to gamers than you may realize or be willing to admit.

Jesus christ, how many times do we need to do the speculation with this thing? Let January happen first, THEN we can yell at Nintendo.

I don't see Nintendo's strategy as a risk," said Peddie. "Too many pundits and fan boys and investors make a serious mistake when they try to compare and contrast Nintendo with Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo has a niche in the affordable, accessible product, and performance is never a leading criteria for them. It is gameplay and immersion. They are never a technology pioneer. Trying to compare Nintendo to Sony is like comparing a Volkswagen to a Corvette. It's a facetious and fallacious analogy and a discredit to fans who love Nintendo."
- Taken from the linked article

I feel like everyone forgets this. I always have to ask the same question of "What on Earth did you guys expect?"

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Posting on this forum is disabled.