Atlus Issues Threat to Players who Stream Too Far Into Persona 5

 Pages 1 2 NEXT
 

Atlus Issues Threat to Players who Stream Too Far Into Persona 5

Atlus has issued a warning to anyone planning to stream Persona 5.

Atlus has posted a note to Persona 5 players who may be considering streaming the game or posting gameplay videos.

For starters, you can post as many videos as you want, as long as they are under 90 minutes long, include "no major story spoilers," including the "ending segments of the first three palaces," and don't post anything that includes certain scenes, characters, and cutscenes. Streamers are even more limited. Streamers are warned to not stream any content at all past "7/7" - the early July portion of the game.

If you do decide to stream any content beyond that point, Atlus says "you do so at the risk of being issued a content ID claim or worse, a channel strike/account suspension."

"Simply put, we don't want the experience to be spoiled for people who haven't played the game," the post reads. "Our fans have waited years for the game to come out and we really want to make sure they can experience it fully as a totally new adventure."

This doesn't appear to be a new standard for Atlus, as the post concludes by stating that Persona 5 is a "super special case."

In order to keep yourself out of trouble, check out the Video and Streaming content limitations, directly from Atlus' post, below.

Video Content

  • You can post however many additional videos you'd like, but please limit each to be at most 90 minutes long.
  • No major story spoilers, and I'll leave that up to your good judgment. If you need some guidelines, avoid showing/spoiling the ending segments of the first three palaces. While you can show initial interactions with Yusuke, avoid his awakening scene, and that whole deal about THE painting. Also, don't post anything about a certain student investigator.
  • I know I mentioned not showing the end of each palace, but you can grab footage from the Kamoshida boss fight. However, don't capture video from the other major boss fights.
  • Must not focus solely on cutscenes/animated scenes, should prominently feature dungeon crawling/spending time in Tokyo.
  • You can post straight gameplay or have commentary.
  • Streaming Content

    This being a Japanese title with a single-playthrough story means our masters in Japan are very wary about it. Sharing is currently blocked through the native PS4 UI. However, if you do plan on streaming, video guidelines above apply except length. If you decide to stream past 7/7 (I HIGHLY RECOMMEND NOT DOING THIS, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED), you do so at the risk of being issued a content ID claim or worse, a channel strike/account suspension.

    Permalink

    I think Atlus is about to learn a lesson in the power of spite.

    I mean, I appreciate their commitment to not spoiling their game, but this is going waaaaaaaaaaay overboard. People will see this, and post all of that shit on throwaway accounts.

    Yeah, this is stupid. If your fans don't want the game to be spoiled, they shouldn't watch a Let's Play or a stream of the game. If they're watching that and get spoiled when they didn't want to, that's their own fault.

    This is just one more example of YouTube's copyright strikes being used badly in my book.

    Wow, dick move Atlus. It's like they don't trust people not to spoil things for themselves.

    Where are the Phantom Thieves when you really need 'em?

    "If you decide to stream past 7/7 you do so at the risk of being issued a content ID claim or worse, a channel strike/account suspension."

    What a crock of shit. I don't have a PS4 or any real knowledge/ interest in the Persona series but this seems like an utterly backwards move. Sad thing is despite these guys effectively openly threatening to abuse YouTube's copyright system we all know YT will let them get away with it and continue ignoring how stupid their system is. Kinda curious about how Twitch would handle this though as they're generally not too bad with copyright; literally all I've seen them enforcing is removing audio on highlight videos that uses copyrighted music, never seen them close out accounts or directly interrupt streams or anything like that.

    Hopefully people go well out their way to stick a middle finger up to this kind of behaviour, even if only on a bunch of alt accounts (although tbh I'd kinda love to see these guys get shit on trying to take down a big YTer like pewdiepie down over basically nothing).

    I have always been against developers trying to control the experience players have, all the way back to the Game Genie debates (and lawsuit).

    Yup, threatening to abuse the DMCA in an attempt to control your publicity, that'll go well.

    Begs the question, when they file their false copyright strikes on Youtube/Twitch and the channel comes back with a counter DMCA claim, will they follow it all the way through to court? Of course not, but I'm still waiting for the developer/publisher boneheaded enough to try it.

    Didn't someone in the forums made a post about rage quitting Youtube because it was spoiling Persona 5? This move from Atlus makes me wonder if there were more reactions like that out there and Atlus decided to become the Youtube police as an answer. Or maybe Atlus is just a control freak.

    Well, time to find a full Let's Play of Persona 5. No need for me to bother buying the game.

    Objective: Be an obedient llttle consumer.

    Personally, I think the vast majority of Persona 5 fans should take this as an insult to their intelligence. Apparently Atlus doesn't think that most Persona 5 players are smart enough to stay away from Person 5 videos & streams that may contain spoilers. When I don't want something spoiled I make sure to avoid anything with a title that looks like it might contain spoilers.

    Wow, way to rain on your own parade there, Atlus.

    Here you make what appears to be a terrific game, and then you go and be a giant cunt toward people who want to share the love.

    Lol. Overreaching much. Precious must not be spoiled. They hides the precious. We must seeks the precious, oh yes we must!

    Well I'm not a major streamer, so I won't be streaming it or dealing with the headache / have the funds to afford lawyers for it. But I could definitely see this as a cause someone will take up and completely -shatter- in court. Hell I could almost see Jim Fucking Sterling streaming this from start to finish just to show how false these claims are when put under actual legal light, though I think he's had enough destroying companies in court already.

    But by god am I now going to -watch- the streams that defy this rather than buy it. If it looks fun for the gameplay I may buy it at a later date, but I'm more content providing people who ignore this a little extra gain and views than those who abide by it.

    This game has been out in Japan for months...gth Sega (I hope it's Sega and not atlus that is the source of this)

    If you click on something that says "Finale" on it and complain about being spoiled...go fuck yourself.

    If you say "You can stream anything you want...except the beginning, middle, end, sound and video"...go fuck yourself.

    I don't want Persona 5 spoiled for me personally, so my ingenious plan is to not watch P5 videos or streams. Simple, isn't it?

    As a person who streams regularly I'm gonna give a big "F*** YOU" to Atlus. Also I love Atlus as a dev, but if this was a PC release I'd stream the whole game out of spite, and probably title my stream: "Spoiling everything try and stop me" if it'd fit. Considering they'd have to go through Twitch to get anything done I'd be very interested to see how that goes.

    As it is they'll just go through Sony who will probably be a lot more amiable towards the corporate dickery.

    I look forward to those who find a story spoiler mid stream, then just leave the stream on and go do something else stuck on that story spoiler JUST to rub it in. You don't command how people play their games around other people, if you don't wanna get spoiled kill your watch history on youtube and don't watch streams.

    Goddamn it Atlus is THIS was SEGA did to you?

    Fuck.

    Battenberg:
    Kinda curious about how Twitch would handle this though as they're generally not too bad with copyright; literally all I've seen them enforcing is removing audio on highlight videos that uses copyrighted music, never seen them close out accounts or directly interrupt streams or anything like that.

    https://twitter.com/TwitchSupport/status/849341738674249729 from the horses mouth.

    I don't think directly interupting a stream would even be feasible within the process, but the rest is more or less on the table. Although they do basically "advise" to "avoid". They don't appear to have any interest in doing the work themselves, just stating they'll comply if a DMCA is issued.

    This game has been out in Japan for half a year, this makes no sense.

    I'll admit, I'm rather glad I've decided to not stream this game myself, but a good friend and fellow streamer of mine won't particularly like this news.

    This seems like a completely asinine reasoning though. "Yes, I can't prevent being spoilered because... uh... I PATHOLOGICALLY MUST WATCH EVERY VIDEO THAT I SEE IN MY LIST!"? Being spoilered is simply on the viewer in these cases.

    This is a good idea that can't possibly end badly.
    [/sarcasm]

    And if you think their joking, think again. They are owned by SEGA. Notoriously a company with no qualms about issuing multiple copyright strikes on a single channel for single game just to get their own videos about the same game on top of YouTube's search list. (see TotalBiscuit)
    They will seriously F&*k up your channel if you are not careful. Do not underestimate this.

    On the one hand, Atlus are acting like unnecessary and short sighted jerks.

    On the other, I can't stand JRPG elitists and this will send them into a tizzy....

    What to do, what to do...

    The "we don't want people to spoil themselves!" justification is pretty dumb, but... well, it sounds better PR-wise than the reason I'd give: "We don't want freeloaders watching the story of our story-heavy game on Youtube instead of buying it themselves". Though, frankly, I don't care if companies decide they don't want their game streamed/Let's Played/etc and am perfectly okay with them copyright striking your channel if you decide to anyway.

    I hope that one of these cases goes to court at some point, I'd love to at least have what's legal/not in writing, regardless of which way it goes. Though, I hope it goes to the company making the thing in the first place and not the "personality" streaming it.

    If it matters, I don't think Let's Plays are Fair Use and if a company wants to not allow them, good for them. LPs might drive attention and sales or they might not, and I think it's the company's prerogative to decide if they want to allow them.

    http://www.thatdragoncancer.com/thatdragoncancer/2016/3/24/on-lets-plays

    Did they just spoil Yosuke's appearance in their warning about streaming too far ahead because of spoilers?

    J.McMillen:
    Personally, I think the vast majority of Persona 5 fans should take this as an insult to their intelligence. Apparently Atlus doesn't think that most Persona 5 players are smart enough to stay away from Person 5 videos & streams that may contain spoilers. When I don't want something spoiled I make sure to avoid anything with a title that looks like it might contain spoilers.

    I'm pretty sure this is not the reason. They don't want people who might otherwise buy the game watching it all on a stream instead of giving them money. As I don't have a PS4, will never have a PS4, and Atlus are a bunch of dicks who won't bring anything to PC, I plan on finding a stream and watching it all the way through.

    Lodum:
    The "we don't want people to spoil themselves!" justification is pretty dumb, but... well, it sounds better PR-wise than the reason I'd give: "We don't want freeloaders watching the story of our story-heavy game on Youtube instead of buying it themselves". Though, frankly, I don't care if companies decide they don't want their game streamed/Let's Played/etc and am perfectly okay with them copyright striking your channel if you decide to anyway.

    I hope that one of these cases goes to court at some point, I'd love to at least have what's legal/not in writing, regardless of which way it goes. Though, I hope it goes to the company making the thing in the first place and not the "personality" streaming it.

    If it matters, I don't think Let's Plays are Fair Use and if a company wants to not allow them, good for them. LPs might drive attention and sales or they might not, and I think it's the company's prerogative to decide if they want to allow them.

    http://www.thatdragoncancer.com/thatdragoncancer/2016/3/24/on-lets-plays

    There is a compelling argument for Fair Use on Lets Plays though. Competitive Chess has been a tinder box overflowing with claims, suits, and attempts to lock down or control what is broadcast from the matches. Originally it started with the company that owned the chess board claiming a violation of their copyright that the world championships were being broadcasted without their consent or control- and more recently with attempts to prevent outlets from broadcasting the moves made during the match with commentary and analysis. These attempts have been shot down or otherwise blocked by judges, making the statement that act of playing a game of chess is a transformative work that generates it's own copyright in control of the players, broadcasters, or other parties previously agreed to by those involved without violating or harming the copyright of the game.

    Now the question is how far should that idea or argument reach? If a recording or broadcasting of a game of chess isn't a violation of the copyright on the game itself when played at the professional level, what about when it is played with amateur players? Does this argument protect the recordings of Garry Kasparov Vs Deep Blue, when a person played a computer at chess? What about if we no longer have the game of chess played on a physical board and instead played on a computer or electronic device? Does this argument only protect Chess as it is named, or does it extend to all board games?

    If the argument does extend to playing at the amateur level, playing against a computer and not another person, covering all board games and not just Chess, and covers said games no matter if they are physical or digital versions- then why wouldn't said argument also reach video games?

    Though video games do have movie elements in cutscenes, music, and story elements, though they may involve a lot of reading like a book, they are not defined by the media they are consumed on. The Video portion of the name isn't the defining factor of a video game, it is the Game component.

    Lifting a game wholesale and making it available yourself, such as through distributing a video game through the internet so people can gain a copy of it without purchasing it (and doing so without consent of the copyright holder) is a violation of the copyright on that video game. That as uploading a complete movie to Youtube for people to watch, or dumping a book into Googledocs, a violation of copyright. But a non-interactive copy of media, such as a video recording or broadcast, of an interactive media can be argued to be protected as a transformative work, that the act of playing an interactive media creates a unique copyright for the player each time it is played and the new copyright created is what governs the recordings of that play, not the original copyright on the video game itself- that the copyright on interactive media does not permit control over non-interactive media recordings of that interactive media.

    Even then, this gets muddy when we ask where that line is drawn. For example, if someone was exclude all recordings of interactive sections of the game to have only non-interactive sections and elements in the video then upload it to Youtube, would that need to be treated as uploading a whole movie to Youtube and seen as a violation of the video game's copyright, or would that need to be treated as if someone cut or edited a movie down to a collage or collection of clips and uploaded that and decide if or how that violated copyrights? How much of the game needs to have interactive elements for it to fall under this argument?

    All I can say for certain is that if it does go to court and the court finds that recording yourself playing a video game isn't a transformative use of the video game's copyright and that Let's Plays are not a reasonable form of commentary on the media that is copyright protected then that will be a massive hammer that has impacts far beyond the streaming of video games and Youtube videos of video games.

    Tanis:
    Goddamn it Atlus is THIS was SEGA did to you?

    Fuck.

    Damn, didn't even know Atlus is part of Sega now.

    On October 2003, Japanese toy company Takara acquired Atlus.[6] On 21 November 2006 Index Holdings announced the acquisition of Atlus, effective on 30 October, and purchased 7.7 million shares (54.93 percent; 77,000 votes, or 54.96 percent of the voting rights) on 20 November 2006. Atlus became an Index Holdings subsidiary on 29 November 2006.[7]

    ...

    In June 2013, it was reported that Index Corporation filed for civil rehabilitation proceedings, facing bankruptcy with debts of ?24.5 billion. An Atlus USA spokesperson said that Index Digital Media and the Atlus brand were unaffected by the proceedings.[18] On 18 September 2013, it was reported that Sega Sammy Holdings won a bid to acquire the bankrupt Index for ?14 billion.[19] All Index operations, including the Atlus brand and Index Digital Media (Atlus USA), transferred to Sega Dream Corporation (a new subsidiary of Sega Corporation) on 1 November 2013.[20] That day, Sega announced that it would change the name of Sega Dream Corporation to Index Corporation.[21]

    On 18 February 2014, Sega announced the separation of Index Corporation's contents and solution businesses into a new subsidiary, Index Corporation, renaming the old Index Corporation and its remaining digital game business division to Atlus effective 1 April 2014. The new Atlus would include the foreign subsidiary, Index Digital Media, which would revert its name back to Atlus USA at the establishment of the new Atlus.[1]

    PS:

    I think this reinforces what I have always said, "Don't treat companies like they are people.". They aren't. They are machines to execute business ventures.

    Their staff, the cogs of the machine, changes with time. Their owners changes with time.

    Companies aren't "persistent" entities. They are ad hoc organisations assembled to execute business ventures.

    Okay this is either a marketing move like that catherine "do you still love me?" e-mail or a japanese publisher being backwards about the internet. I can't tell anymore.

    O.o so a bunch of people with face cams cant make money off someone else spending large amounts of money making an interactive movie?

    Cos I mean... that's what we're talking about. Lets Plays are fun and all but lets not pretend all streamers are doing it for love of a game and a desire to share.

    Still kind of a dick move but I can see the reasoning in a game which is 80% story

    This is an interesting move. Anyone, that played a Persona Game and is hyped about Persona 5 (and currently not here, because he/she is playing that thing right now) , will not watch any Let's Plays. They are more like Kathleen from LRR:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgYdXV76ln8

    So, who is this actually for? People, that heared of Persona and want to get into it? Yeah well, watching a whole playthrough probably will spoil anything in this game.
    Somebody already mentioned Undertale. Everyone said, that anyone interested in this game should not watch or learn anything about it and just play! And Persona is a similar game. That Atlus tries to "enforces" that... well, you can look at both sides of it.

    Lodum:
    http://www.thatdragoncancer.com/thatdragoncancer/2016/3/24/on-lets-plays

    Interesting thoughts. Espacially the thing about "Let's Play" without commentary. That remembers me on all the times, where I was playing a game and got "stuck" and wanted to look at a walkthrough. And damn this "modern life", where walkthroughs are f*** often in video form. And sometimes I look into them anyway ... and they are not walkthroughs, but people just playing it! Meaning, the get stuck too and hit their head against the wall for 30min until they find a solution ... that is NOT a walkthrough you damn content creators! (Maybe such things are the reason, I hate most youtubers...)

    As I would add myself to the PC crowd, that really wants to play this game (are there already PS4 emulators?): I will NOT watch any let's plays of it! ... well, I never do that anyway...

    Also is content ID something you can just brandish like a flail now? Publicly?
    Is this there for atlus to police spoilers of all things? For atlus to enforce an aftermarket NDA that nobody signed?

     Pages 1 2 NEXT

    Reply to Thread

    Log in or Register to Comment
    Have an account? Login below:
    With Facebook:Login With Facebook
    or
    Username:  
    Password:  
      
    Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
    Register With Facebook
    Register With Facebook
    or
    Register for a free account here