Controversial Tropes vs. Women in Video Games Series Comes to an End

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I'm not sure why, but I feel like I want to say "Thanks Anita for getting trump elected," Not for nothing but I kind of feel like it's her fault.

Smithnikov:

WeepingAngels:

Anita went looking for trouble, found it by attacking gamers and it's the gamers who are the assholes?

Considering she got treated worse than this guy...

..yea, I didn't buy into this line that she was somehow the anti-christ of gaming. She's just another hack to me.

She picked a fight and some gamers called her out, most of which were calm and rational. As you can see though, more gamers than not are being chivalrous and throwing other gamers under the bus to protect her. The gaming press turned against gamers too (they only shot themselves in the foot). It was even speculated that she faked some of the threats against her to rally support (and her donations). How the fuck can anyone still be defending her?

I don't know who Micheal Savage is but he must be someone you disapprove of and want to see him get some Social Justice, fired and shamed perhaps? That's how it works right? You know, I think all that shit destroyed this forum and it will never recover.

Well whatever, I can see that you guys are still in the self loathing mode so I don't care to go on with this.

WeepingAngels:
The gaming press turned against gamers too (they only shot themselves in the foot). It was even speculated that she faked some of the threats against her to rally support (and her donations). How the fuck can anyone still be defending her?

Someone didn't read what I said. I said she's just another hack. That's not a compliment.

I don't know who Micheal Savage is but he must be someone you disapprove of and want to see him get some Social Justice, fired and shamed perhaps?

Yes, but not for that particular statement. I want him fired and shamed for threatening public officials with violence. I want him fired and shamed for trying to convince the public that autism is curable by, and I quote, "smacking and telling the kid to quit acting like a little idiot"

Also, how would we change to meet your standards? What do you require of us? And how does what I said constitute "self loathing"?

Smithnikov:

WeepingAngels:
The gaming press turned against gamers too (they only shot themselves in the foot). It was even speculated that she faked some of the threats against her to rally support (and her donations). How the fuck can anyone still be defending her?

Someone didn't read what I said. I said she's just another hack. That's not a compliment.

I don't know who Micheal Savage is but he must be someone you disapprove of and want to see him get some Social Justice, fired and shamed perhaps?

Yes, but not for that particular statement. I want him fired and shamed for threatening public officials with violence. I want him fired and shamed for trying to convince the public that autism is curable by, and I quote, "smacking and telling the kid to quit acting like a little idiot"

Also, how would we change to meet your standards? What do you require of us? And how does what I said constitute "self loathing"?

Gamers hating gamers, that is self loathing. Calling each other misogynists. Anita was a poison knife, she was the damsel in distress and too many gamers and journalists turned on each other to protect her sorry ass, she came looking for a fight and found one. You are downplaying her negative influence but I guess I should give you credit for not going as far as some and calling us childish neckbeards or keyboard warriors for daring to question her highness.

I had hoped in time that people would regain their sanity but this thread is proof that they just want to cling to the self loathing chivalrous attitudes that were so prevalent when all of this was current. Perhaps more time is needed.

Smithnikov:

WeepingAngels:

Gamers hating gamers, that is self loathing.

That cuts both ways, you realize?

Calling each other misogynists.

Is the side that calls me a cuck/SJW any better?

Anita was a poison knife, she was the damsel in distress and too many gamers and journalists turned on each other to protect her sorry ass, she came looking for a fight and found one. You are downplaying her negative influence but I guess I should give you credit for not going as far as some and calling us childish neckbeards or keyboard warriors for daring to question her highness.

I don't know you, sir, so please take this as the assumption it is, but when it comes to most of gamers and gamer culture, I've been part of this since before you were in diapers. Most of the self appointed Gatekeepers who call me an anti gaming SJW weren't even sperm when I got shit for exchanging move lists for Mortal Kombat back in the 90's. Where the fuck were you when we had teachers and pastors telling us Night Trap was a rape and murder game? Did you have your school actually LOOKING for video game paraphenalia to confiscate, and I ain't talking game boys or Tiger portable games, I'm saying notebooks with drawings of Sub Zero or Ryu and Ken on them. Did you have to go to the principal's office for having dice and D&D materials in your backpack?

Me turn on gaming. If you think I did that, FUCK YOU. If anything, gamers turned on ME for not having the right politics and considering some goldbricking broad the Harbringer of The End.

I was there when gaming had to take on the fucking US Congress, so surprise surprise, I'm not too scared of some Youtube layabout.

You may believe that she didn't do any damage but you would be blind. Don't assume my age, when the Mortal Kombat thing was going on, I was an adult and had been out of school for a few years. I will respond no more.

Anyway, I recommend this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agQ0PWXb6-U

I like this guy plus this video provides a nice timeline of gamergate.

Well, hopefully her next project involves a less reactionary fan base. Seriously, as far as gaming blasphemy goes, the fucking Game Theory guys are an order of magnitude worse.

WeepingAngels:

She picked a fight...

Phhhhahaha.

She launched a kickstarter. Gamers picked the fight.

I would like to congratulate all the people who had needlessly hostile reactions to her

because you guys were the ones who fueled her relevance

Kotaro:
How many episodes does this make, total?
And how many did she promise during the Kickstarter?
Because last I checked, there was a pretty staggering degree of not delivering what she said she would.

No comment on the actual content, cause I've never watched a single video of her's and don't really intend to, but this is a pretty simple, basic thing to fact check that literally took me all of 5 seconds. The kickstarter only ever promised 12 videos total and she made 19. Say what you will about the content, but you can't claim she didn't deliver what she said she would.

The gaming thing is played out now, so she has to move on to fleecing a new bunch of suckers. Good riddance. Pity so many people wasted time getting worked up about her, which only served to signal boost her crummy videos. Hopefully, we can all just forget her now and move on.

Awww, the Lolcow finally dried up? How sad ;) Good thing it was announced, it would have been at least a year before anyone figured it out with her release schedule.

altnameJag:

She launched a kickstarter. Gamers picked the fight.

While we'll never know for sure if it was her or just one of the staff of her project (it's ludicrously unlikely that it was anyone else), someone tried to promote her kickstarter by spamming in on 4chan. That is literally asking for trouble, with the only people who wouldn't be aware of that fact being people who wouldn't know how to post on 4chan at all due to its outdated U.I.

There was a surprising amount of restraint before a response finally came, and given how unnoteworthy she was it would be a lie to say it was likely a third party.

She was looking for a fight, not to fight it off, but because she knew it would bring attention and money. Why else would videos that take at most 2 days to make (either that or she's so incompetent at video editing that my 12 year old cousin is better, and that's not a joke or exaggeration in any way) always come out when her popularity has dropped off, or when a controversy has hit?

Let's be real here, she looks for fights and then waits for the money to come in. It's so obvious that you can not only point to it happening with her, you can see others attempting to imitate it.

Bilious Green:
The gaming thing is played out now, so she has to move on to fleecing a new bunch of suckers.

This this is the beginning of the end of faux nerd culture being a thing? Because while I don't expect it to end any time soon, the sooner normies get out (reeeeee) the better. But with the popularity of nerd stuff that'll take a long time at best.

Oh well, at least anime is safe from the normies.

Steven Bogos:

While Sarkeesian may be done with the project, the production team Feminist Frequency has a new series planned that will use its "signature feminist media analysis" to "examine the connection between representations in pop culture and the racism, sexism, and transphobia of our current political climate."

Can people stop pretending she isn't courting controversy now?

Like if this last sentence doesn't convince you that she's just hitchhiking the controversial issue du jour to stir shit up every time it seems like the attention she gets has died down, what will?

I doubt she'll ever have success with any other project like she's had with her video games shtick, and thank Jimothy Sterling for that. The last thing America needs right now is more social turmoil.

Hawki:
I've never got the hatred for Sarkeesian. If she says things that you disagree with, presenting arguments that you find disingenuous...well, that's fine. But how does that equate to the vitriol and harassment she's experienced? With all the claims of "social justice warriors" "ruining gaming," it seems that the actual snowflakes are the ones who fight against the 'evils' of 'social justice.' Yep. Can't have a feminist commenting on gaming, otherwise it'll be ruined.

I mean, looking at this video, I do disagree with her arguments and conclusions, but so what? I disagree with someone - I disagree with someone every time I come to the Escapist. Doesn't mean I'm about to go on a tirade against them.

Yeah, people had the option of disagreeing, not listening to her, falling asleep...if it wasn't for the backlash (which nicely proved many of her points), nobody much would care.

WeepingAngels:
BTW, you too tend to judge actual gamers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Kameburger:
I'm not sure why, but I feel like I want to say "Thanks Anita for getting trump elected," Not for nothing but I kind of feel like it's her fault.

Average Joe has probably never even heard of Anita or Gamergate, or any of that, so, no, you can't blame that on her.

WeepingAngels:
She picked a fight and some gamers called her out,

How?

WeepingAngels:
most of which were calm and rational.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zSHz7Thvbc

WeepingAngels:
As you can see though, more gamers than not are being chivalrous and throwing other gamers under the bus to protect her. The gaming press turned against gamers too (they only shot themselves in the foot). It was even speculated that she faked some of the threats against her to rally support (and her donations). How the fuck can anyone still be defending her?

...what the hell are you on about?

Okay, first of all, you're using the term "gamers" as if the term is a noun rather than a descriptive, so you need to weed out things a bit. Second of all, being chivalrous. Yep - hurling online abuse and shutting down critique is SO chivalrous. Third of all, the speculations of faking threats would never have come up if people hurling abuse didn't generate an ecosystem for it. Four, how can I defend Sarkesian? Simple - everyone has a right to say what they want, games aren't exempt from critique, and no-one deserves to be harassed for having views that are different from someone else's.

WeepingAngels:

Gamers hating gamers, that is self loathing. Calling each other misogynists. Anita was a poison knife, she was the damsel in distress and too many gamers and journalists turned on each other to protect her sorry ass, she came looking for a fight and found one. You are downplaying her negative influence but I guess I should give you credit for not going as far as some and calling us childish neckbeards or keyboard warriors for daring to question her highness.

I had hoped in time that people would regain their sanity but this thread is proof that they just want to cling to the self loathing chivalrous attitudes that were so prevalent when all of this was current. Perhaps more time is needed.

The hell?

Okay, first of all, you keep using "gamer." I'm not a "gamer." I read books, but I'm not a "reader." I watch films, but I'm not a "filmgoer." I go to stage plays, but I'm not a "stage play goer." If you want to identify as a "gamer," fine, but it's a useless term when describing the entire swathe of the world's population that engages in interactive entertainment. Calling people out for being arseholes isn't self-loathing. If anything, if you belong to a club, and people in the club are being obnoxious, arguably, their fellow club members have the primary responsibility to get them to take a step back.

So, moving on, Anita was a "poison knife." How? She was the "damsel in distress." Again, how? By bringing up the fact that she was harassed and was subject to death threats? You use terms like "negative influence," but where is this negative influence? I don't want assertions, I want actual tangible evidence.

At the very most, by my observation, all Anita has done is critique games. That's it. So, people can subject other art forms to analysis, but games are above such things? And look, you don't even need to agree with the analysis, but usually, in other art forms, the forms of debate take the form of actual debate. Not this kind of garbage that "gamers" spawned.

WeepingAngels:

You may believe that she didn't do any damage but you would be blind.

Then please, open our eyes.

Captain Marvelous:

Dreiko:
Also, how the hell is having a huge feather beast dog mauling anyone who'd harm you not a power fantasy? Has she never walked a large dog? You feel pretty damn powerful when you are in control of animals, even if they don't listen to every word you say.

Yeah, I was thinking that too. If I had a pet giant anything crushing my foes in my defense or at my command, I'd feel pretty damn powerful. Oh, Scalebound, how I wish you saw the light of day.

Welp, and here I had forgotten about that one being cancelled.

Try Drakengard 3, about as close as we'd get to a game like Scalebound. (also the drakengard universe spawned Nier, so you know you're in for some weird and compelling story)

Oh, that was still a thing? Anyway, back to not giving a hoot.

Wow, she actually managed to finish it (4 years and extra funding drives later, but still). I'm kinda surprised.

"Doing meticulous, comprehensive research spanning the entire history of video games as preparation for those episodes was tremendously difficult and time-consuming,"

Lulz

Y'know I came in here to make a joke about us all now collectively being able to move on but then I read the comments and jeezy chreezy.

I guess she sure did highlight for me at least the fact that this culture is even more of a dumpster fire than I thought it was.
I like playing games with people, but I think I'm kinda done with "gamers". They have a little bit too much of The Worst about them recently.

I think I'm getting too old. :P

Phasmal:
Y'know I came in here to make a joke about us all now collectively being able to move on but then I read the comments and jeezy chreezy.

I guess she sure did highlight for me at least the fact that this culture is even more of a dumpster fire than I thought it was.
I like playing games with people, but I think I'm kinda done with "gamers". They have a little bit too much of The Worst about them recently.

I think I'm getting too old. :P

Join the club.

Steven Bogos:
It was both heavily criticized and heavily defended by proponents on either side...

"Either side"? What the hell does that mean? It's inane with-me-or-against-me thinking like that which made a very benign series at all "controversial" in the first place.

Sensible people can typically see more than two "sides", and so for Feminist Frequencies series there were strengths and weaknesses. Y'know, pretty much just like everything in life...

Personally, I felt like the "controversy" really only highlighted how ignorant a lot of people/gamers have been about feminism, with some amusingly trying to paint her and the series as 'extremist', when all she did was present age old ideas in a rather bland way. That she provoked so much ire kinda proved her point about sexism in society, too, that that series could rile so many up.

Personally, I felt some of the earlier videos were perfectly fine, and I feel the channel and that series helped catalyse debates over gamer culture and games themselves. She and the channel have contributed positively, and that won't be wiped away or forgotten. However, the series dragged and it really did seem as if they were conjuring tropes from thin air whilst repeating the same, very basic feminist points. Beyond a certain point there was really nothing new. The contextless use of some games and scenes really riled me, too, and rather undermined their entire project.

Smithnikov:
..yea, I didn't buy into this line that she was somehow the anti-christ of gaming. She's just another hack to me.

No, she and her team were just people online - people on planet Earth - with opinions. That's about it...

However, whilst I had issues with their presentation and use of content especially after a few earlier eps, as I said above I do believe the channel's contributed to a greater awareness of--- well, cultural self-awareness, as it were. If they're a bunch of hacks, I believe their net contribution has been positive.

Callate:
She exemplifies the kind of attitude that not only makes it more difficult for people to find common cause and common ground, but weakens feminism as a whole, presenting it as an unchallengable monolith that has all the answers and is the only enlightened way to look at anything.

Is that really an issue with her? Or the nomarks who somehow see any and all individuals as sole mouthpieces of incredibly complex and nuanced ideological perspectives?

So much opposition to feminism seems to be built off the back of individual statements from individual people; 'X said Y, so all of 'em think it! Man the barricades!!!'. That isn't usually the person speaking who's really at fault, is it.

The channel and Sarkeesian weren't exactly paragons of--- well, anything, be it feminism or game critique. But I don't think they ever needed to be. They were/are, after all, simply part of a broader attitude of societal progression. If all they did was kick a hornet's nest, then that's productive in and of itself.

Phasmal:
Y'know I came in here to make a joke about us all now collectively being able to move on but then I read the comments and jeezy chreezy.

I guess she sure did highlight for me at least the fact that this culture is even more of a dumpster fire than I thought it was.
I like playing games with people, but I think I'm kinda done with "gamers". They have a little bit too much of The Worst about them recently.

I think I'm getting too old. :P

Stop stealing the things I want to say. In a just world, these news would be met with an unemphatic shrug from everyone involved. Instead, people just have to re-iterate, one last time, just how much they hate Sarkeesian and how much of a fraud and conman she is (despite, you know, doing what she said she'd do).

I am not kidding when I say that I regularly interact with borderline patients that have better emotional regulation then what most vocal gamers online seems to have.

Hawki:
I've never got the hatred for Sarkeesian. If she says things that you disagree with, presenting arguments that you find disingenuous...well, that's fine. But how does that equate to the vitriol and harassment she's experienced? With all the claims of "social justice warriors" "ruining gaming," it seems that the actual snowflakes are the ones who fight against the 'evils' of 'social justice.' Yep. Can't have a feminist commenting on gaming, otherwise it'll be ruined.

I mean, looking at this video, I do disagree with her arguments and conclusions, but so what? I disagree with someone - I disagree with someone every time I come to the Escapist. Doesn't mean I'm about to go on a tirade against them.

I agree. The degree to which folks whipped up a shit storm over her arguments was entirely ridiculous.

OT: I was just wondering yesterday what was the status of Anita's series. Funny fact: I couldn't check because I'd forgotten her name and wasn't particularly curious enough to dig it up.

Given the BS and grief the Internet gave her I'm happy that she received $160,000 instead of the original $6,000. Good for her.

I wish her well with her future projects.

Hey, Anita--piss 'em off some more!

image

I don't understand how a person making videos with their opinions on video-game cliches could be controversial. People do that stuff all the time and nobody had to agree with them either.

Gethsemani:

I am not kidding when I say that I regularly interact with borderline patients that have better emotional regulation then what most vocal gamers online seems to have.

The difference being at least those are seeking help. That requires a level of self-awareness. ;)

Wintermute:
I'm glad this is finally over. I'm tired of this new trend where every game protagonist is a woman and it's all about women. Now that this series is done, things will go back to normal. I miss manly games where I do manly things. I miss the straight white guy protagonists.

Hey, more female protagonists are a good thing. More nicely shaped butts to watch as you game.

I watched her first two videos. While the discussion she was trying to have had huge merit, and deserved the attention, her examples could come across as dishonest. So I stopped watching them.

That said, the reactions didn't stop at reasonable rebuttals. People were vile and nasty to her, in ways which always cross the line, not just 'cause its a girl'. If people are upset at the narrative that followed, blaming her for poking the hornets nest is absurd. Maybe we should collectively try to stop being hornets?

I'll give it a watch. I was wondering when she would be dialling these things down.

A lot of people have argued that if there wasn't such a shit storm around her videos, she would have faded into obscurity. I argue the Lewis Law in that its these shit storms that demonstrate their relevance in the first place. She wouldn't feel the need to provide feminist analysis of games if the hobby didn't have some really weird hang ups about women, nor had a community full of people who get disproportionately upset when these hang ups are pointed out (as they're the people who really should be listening to what she says).

Anita has produced a fairly elementary level series on what people within the hobby have been pointing out for years ("Princess Peach being kidnapped again?", "Bikini armour?", "another dead wife revenge story?" etc). Because she is not a stereotypical gamer and looks like a lady talkabouter though, people get mad when it comes from her.

infohippie:

Wintermute:
I'm glad this is finally over. I'm tired of this new trend where every game protagonist is a woman and it's all about women. Now that this series is done, things will go back to normal. I miss manly games where I do manly things. I miss the straight white guy protagonists.

Hey, more female protagonists are a good thing. More nicely shaped butts to watch as you game.

So we have Anita to thank for Nier: Automata? Delicious irony if true.

I've never seen one of her videos I tried to once but I found her droning voice to be so dull that I had no wish to ever watch one of her videos. That's why it boggles my mind that people will hate watch her videos and act like she's the goddamn antichrist. She deserved none of the abuse or death threats that were handed her way. She's just a boring woman making boring videos on a boring subject. The ugliness of so many gamers is fucking gross dude.

Silentpony:
Oh good, the scam artist is finally shutting up.

maninahat:
I'll give it a watch. I was wondering when she would be dialling these things down.

A lot of people have argued that if there wasn't such a shit storm around her videos, she would have faded into obscurity. I argue the Lewis Law in that its these shit storms that demonstrate their relevance in the first place.

You can't use fallacy as an argument in dicussion, so called Lewis Law is an example of poorly thought out circular logic,thus irrelevant in determining something being 0/1.

It's always fascinated me at how much vitriol people still have over a series that is, quite frankly, unimaginably basic and inoffensive. Like, shit guys, c'mon, there's far better stuff out there to get incensed about, why you still so mad over this? Do you have nothing better to do? Just... so weird.

Ah well, my money says this thread still hits 120 posts. And then 3 months down the line someone'll make a thread on whatever she's doing next and we can play the whole song and dance all over again.

Phasmal:
Y'know I came in here to make a joke about us all now collectively being able to move on but then I read the comments and jeezy chreezy.

I guess she sure did highlight for me at least the fact that this culture is even more of a dumpster fire than I thought it was.
I like playing games with people, but I think I'm kinda done with "gamers". They have a little bit too much of The Worst about them recently.

I think I'm getting too old. :P

I remember a time when I was keen and excited to be a part of the gaming community.

...I think the SNES had just come out at the time. Ah, the joys of being under 10 and having no internet access...

I'm sorry, this was a thing? I tuned out like it was Gamergate again, because none of it mattered. Everybody else got into big discussions...and I played video games.

I win.

Hawki:
I've never got the hatred for Sarkeesian. If she says things that you disagree with, presenting arguments that you find disingenuous...well, that's fine. But how does that equate to the vitriol and harassment she's experienced?

She runs on pity, needs the victimhood.
How can anyone not notice at this point?
She's not there to solve problems, she's there to push buttons.

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