Vanquish PC Bug Makes Higher Framerates Equal Higher Damage Taken

Vanquish PC Bug Makes Higher Framerates Equal Higher Damage Taken

If you've found the PC version of Vanquish much harder than you remember, you might want to try lowering your framerate.

Vanquish wasn't an easy game when it was on PS3 and Xbox 360, but there are reports that the new PC port that launched yesterday is even harder. As it turns out, if you're taking advantage of the option to raise the framerate from the 30 fps the console version was locked to, you're making it harder on yourself.

The issue is highlighted in two gifs from NeoGAF user Wesker, who shows the difference in damage rates. Wesker wrote, "If you lock the framerate to 30FPS AR mode will activate after 6-7 seconds of taking enemy fire. If you're playing at a much higher framerate, like 144FPS, it will activate in just 1-2 seconds." AR mode is the slowdown feature that kicks in when your character gets near death.

The first gif shows the game at 30 fps, while the second is running at 60 fps. Note how much faster the player reaches critical health levels in the second gif.

vanquish-30fps

 

vanquish-60fps

The issue has also been mentioned in Steam reviews and on the game's Steam discussion board. Sega has yet officially confirm the bug, but until it is addressed, you can always set your copy to run at 30 fps to avoid it. If you've experienced this issue, let us know in the forums!

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And this is why you don't tie your framerate to gameplay mechanics. Game design 101. C'mon,people. It's not that hard to figure out!

This is hilarious.

Riddle78:
And this is why you don't tie your framerate to gameplay mechanics. Game design 101. C'mon,people. It's not that hard to figure out!

Japanese developers love doing this because up until very recently they developed their games exclusively for consoles and the option for framerates higher than the target simply didn't exist. This of course comes back to bite them in the ass now when they decide to release a PC port, because then they are stuck with either allowing higher framerates and getting bugs like this that may require extensive code rewrites to fix, or locking the game to the console framerate (usually 30FPS) and having the port receive bad reviews because many PC gamers consider 30FPS locks to be unacceptable in this day and age.

Hmm, oddly enough I've been playing with a higher framerate and haven't encountered this at all.

This reminds me of Dark Souls 2. The durability loss of equipment in that game is already terrible compared to all other games in the series and beyond but on PC it was literally doubly bad due to it being tied to fps. It's essentially the modern equivalent of the pause trick from Blaster Master or Mega Man.

That might explain why the most dangerous thing in the game is a punch. Even the weakest enemy can kill you in a single punch on normal if your fps is high enough. Interesting, that.

Riddle78:
And this is why you don't tie your framerate to gameplay mechanics. Game design 101. C'mon,people. It's not that hard to figure out!

This is a similar thing to the damage rate of equipment in Dark Souls II, meaning if you ran the game at the smooth 60fps, your gear wore out a LOT faster.

KoudelkaMorgan:
This reminds me of Dark Souls 2. The durability loss of equipment in that game is already terrible compared to all other games in the series and beyond but on PC it was literally doubly bad due to it being tied to fps. It's essentially the modern equivalent of the pause trick from Blaster Master or Mega Man.

Except it worked on YOU and not the enemies....

As bugs go, this is one of the more interesting ones.

This is hilarious. Enjoy your uncapped frame rates. I play on PC but Ive not got a bleeding edge set up. I cannot justify it with a wife and child, dropping a few hundred pounds on my toy every few months seems quite selfish
..

Wait until my son is into PC gaming though...

Supernova1138:

Riddle78:
And this is why you don't tie your framerate to gameplay mechanics. Game design 101. C'mon,people. It's not that hard to figure out!

Japanese developers love doing this because up until very recently they developed their games exclusively for consoles and the option for framerates higher than the target simply didn't exist. This of course comes back to bite them in the ass now when they decide to release a PC port, because then they are stuck with either allowing higher framerates and getting bugs like this that may require extensive code rewrites to fix, or locking the game to the console framerate (usually 30FPS) and having the port receive bad reviews because many PC gamers consider 30FPS locks to be unacceptable in this day and age.

Here's an issue with that; You need code to tie framerate to other elements. It's literally more work to do what Vanquish and Dark Souls II did,than to keep them independent. Either it's inherent in the engine,which is possible,though I have no earthly clue as to why,or the developers explicitly put in the link themselves,though,again,I have no clue why.

bjj hero:
This is hilarious. Enjoy your uncapped frame rates.

Lol, what? I mean...thanks I will, with the exception of this one instance. Yeah, there's a few others as well, but the majority of my games don't have this issue.

Your statement seems a little spiteful.

Lol this happened to valkyria chronicles on the pc

DeliveryGodNoah:

bjj hero:
This is hilarious. Enjoy your uncapped frame rates.

Lol, what? I mean...thanks I will, with the exception of this one instance. Yeah, there's a few others as well, but the majority of my games don't have this issue.

Your statement seems a little spiteful.

No spite was meant. If you read the rest of the post I talked about looking forward to my son being old enough to want a 1337 rig.

I more found it amusing that of the big selling points on PC remakes is the uncapped frame rates, then it turns out that game mechanics are tied the the fps causing mayhem.

And people on reddit lose their minds ...

Strange no one bitches when Bethesda releases bugged to heck and back software.

I think from this point forth Japanese companies will just go back to not releasing PC ports.

So many requirements (thus higher cost) but such a small market.

Well, same thing happened to Valkyria Chronicles, so this isn't much of a surprise.
That's what happens when you tie stuff to your framerate.

Makes for some hilarious bugs though, like the tanks in Valkyria Chronicles not being able to climb up hills anymore.

deadish:

Strange no one bitches when Bethesda releases bugged to heck and back software.

I don't know where you been but people bitch about this exact thing for every Bethesda game. because Fallout 3,4 Oblivion and Skyrim all have physics tied to frame rate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4EHjFkVw-s

https://youtu.be/O7Xa4ysQLb8?t=2m5s

Marik2:
Lol this happened to valkyria chronicles on the pc

Wait, really!? WHY!? Why would they do that?! It's a damn turned based strategy game!

bjj hero:
This is hilarious. Enjoy your uncapped frame rates. I play on PC but Ive not got a bleeding edge set up. I cannot justify it with a wife and child, dropping a few hundred pounds on my toy every few months seems quite selfish
..

Wait until my son is into PC gaming though...

You do not need a cutting edge PC to obliterate a PS4, let alone a pathetic excuse for hardware like a PS3.

At this point I am sure my phone curbstomps the PS3 and Xbox 360. If you aim for conslow settings, even a low end prebuilt PC will get 60 fps on Vanquish.

If everyone could put the pointless gaming platform fued aside (because they literally go nowhere, have no meaning, and make no difference), I'd like to address the actual matter at hand, which is this:

Game programmers, you are being tremendously lazy by doing this. The point of a multi-system port is that they match in levels of functionality. If they don't, you goofed. Please do the jobs you're paid to do.

FalloutJack:
If everyone could put the pointless gaming platform fued aside (because they literally go nowhere, have no meaning, and make no difference), I'd like to address the actual matter at hand, which is this:

Game programmers, you are being tremendously lazy by doing this. The point of a multi-system port is that they match in levels of functionality. If they don't, you goofed. Please do the jobs you're paid to do.

They know that the players will fix it in a day or two.

FalloutJack:
If everyone could put the pointless gaming platform fued aside (because they literally go nowhere, have no meaning, and make no difference), I'd like to address the actual matter at hand, which is this:

Game programmers, you are being tremendously lazy by doing this. The point of a multi-system port is that they match in levels of functionality. If they don't, you goofed. Please do the jobs you're paid to do.

My guess is in their original brief it was to be console only with a set frame rate. So it was not lazy programming, it was using the tools available to get the job done. Time saved in one area makes more time to work Elsewhere.

There is however an argument that maybe this should have been picked up in testing for the port.

Marik2:

They know that the players will fix it in a day or two.

Doesn't relying on a bunch of guys who fix it in post with less resources than you have make you look dumb, though?

bjj hero:

My guess is in their original brief it was to be console only with a set frame rate. So it was not lazy programming, it was using the tools available to get the job done. Time saved in one area makes more time to work Elsewhere.

There is however an argument that maybe this should have been picked up in testing for the port.

That argument is most certainly relevent. In fact, there's no way it could've been missed. If the damage index is ramped up suddenly, it's like the difference between playing a Final Fantasy game and a Persona game. The latter clearly does not pull punches, except maybe in reference to the even-more-unforgiving Shin Megami Tensei games. The point is that this is a dead giveaway.

That said, so blatant a programming goof-up is still rather lazy, regardless of what order the ports were made in. Hanging damage codes on your framerates doesn't even make sense. Why even do it? The two are not associated functions. I mean, one's the run speed and graphics, the other's calculating how hard you get hit. Whatever the plan was, it wasn't right in the head.

FalloutJack:

That argument is most certainly relevent. In fact, there's no way it could've been missed. If the damage index is ramped up suddenly, it's like the difference between playing a Final Fantasy game and a Persona game. The latter clearly does noaway.

That said, so bt a programming goof-up is still rather lazy, regardless of what order the ports were made in. Hanging damage codes on your framerates doesn't even make sense. it wasn't right in the head.

Im no code monkey but wonder if ther constant FPS was used as some sort of timer or metronome.

bjj hero:

FalloutJack:

That argument is most certainly relevent. In fact, there's no way it could've been missed. If the damage index is ramped up suddenly, it's like the difference between playing a Final Fantasy game and a Persona game. The latter clearly does noaway.

That said, so bt a programming goof-up is still rather lazy, regardless of what order the ports were made in. Hanging damage codes on your framerates doesn't even make sense. it wasn't right in the head.

Im no code monkey but wonder if ther constant FPS was used as some sort of timer or metronome.

I'm no code monkey either, per se. Had just enough exposure to know that DPS is not a function of FPS. Oh, you could technically do it, but a college professor wouldn't give you a high grade. They basically didn't feel like coding a separate DPS calculator and here we are.

FalloutJack:

Marik2:

They know that the players will fix it in a day or two.

Doesn't relying on a bunch of guys who fix it in post with less resources than you have make you look dumb, though?

bjj hero:

My guess is in their original brief it was to be console only with a set frame rate. So it was not lazy programming, it was using the tools available to get the job done. Time saved in one area makes more time to work Elsewhere.

There is however an argument that maybe this should have been picked up in testing for the port.

That argument is most certainly relevent. In fact, there's no way it could've been missed. If the damage index is ramped up suddenly, it's like the difference between playing a Final Fantasy game and a Persona game. The latter clearly does not pull punches, except maybe in reference to the even-more-unforgiving Shin Megami Tensei games. The point is that this is a dead giveaway.

That said, so blatant a programming goof-up is still rather lazy, regardless of what order the ports were made in. Hanging damage codes on your framerates doesn't even make sense. Why even do it? The two are not associated functions. I mean, one's the run speed and graphics, the other's calculating how hard you get hit. Whatever the plan was, it wasn't right in the head.

I'm not so sure, depends why the two are tied together, if its something like timed invincibility periods, or indeed damage over an animation then tying the damage directly to framerate ensures the two happen in synch. Logical reasons are not hard to come up with for using framerate for timing in a locked framerate game. It means damage is synced with animations, cant happen when visuals suggest it can't etc. And if you aren't planning on porting to an unlocked framerate dominated platform then taking the simpler codes is a better use of resources and will likely mean less bugs. There is an argument that the work should have been put into the port though.

I'm playing at 144fps and above and I didn't notice until these articles starting coming out. Just using a mouse and keyboard makes the game much easier to play and I've only died a handful of times (At least on normal). I'm sure on the higher difficulties this would become pretty oppressive so I'm hoping a patch gets released for my subsequent playthroughs.

Kind of reminds me of Metal Gear Rising, where a lot of the game is reliant of frame-rate. For instance, if your frame-rate is off during the tutorial level, Sundowner gets stuck in the ground during the chase sequence. You can't do anything to him once you catch up, but you can keep going as usual. However, later on when you fight Metal Gear RAY, the game screws up worse. The part where you get thrown into the tower and you have to run down while it collapses doesn't work. The tower itself doesn't load, and the entire game locks up at that point.

It's weird because I can play the game perfectly on my home computer in my dorm room. If I take my desktop computer back home and hook it up to the TV to play, it doesn't work and I can't play it. Even after upgrading my PC's hardware, I still have the same issue. Apparently, the game is insanely picky that way.

Petromir:
Call to Snip

In my mind, though, the why is wrong. To ask for it to happen would seem to me a way to reduce potential bugs in terms of numbers, but to invite bigger errors to happen when they do, larger and more-difficult-to-overcome things. True, the more complex a thing is, the more chance that some small widget has to foul up, but a flawed design breaks down and sets you back even further. Case in point, this kind of faux pas is embarassing, and if some unpaid mod-maker who fixes it on his own time does your job for you, you look extremely bad. As in..."What are we even paying you for?" bad. And also, if the order to do so came from higher up, the programmer will still get the blame in a round of denial and face-saving, or at least that is what would be attempted at the meeting regarding this. Better for all if it the problem was just hunkered down and dealt with.

Riddle78:

Supernova1138:

Riddle78:
And this is why you don't tie your framerate to gameplay mechanics. Game design 101. C'mon,people. It's not that hard to figure out!

Japanese developers love doing this because up until very recently they developed their games exclusively for consoles and the option for framerates higher than the target simply didn't exist. This of course comes back to bite them in the ass now when they decide to release a PC port, because then they are stuck with either allowing higher framerates and getting bugs like this that may require extensive code rewrites to fix, or locking the game to the console framerate (usually 30FPS) and having the port receive bad reviews because many PC gamers consider 30FPS locks to be unacceptable in this day and age.

Here's an issue with that; You need code to tie framerate to other elements. It's literally more work to do what Vanquish and Dark Souls II did,than to keep them independent. Either it's inherent in the engine,which is possible,though I have no earthly clue as to why,or the developers explicitly put in the link themselves,though,again,I have no clue why.

If it's some kind of regular effect that is applied in regular intervals, the extra code is required anyway. The difference is, by tying it to the framerate they remove the necessity to keep track of the intervals. So you save some work and it's not a problem as long as the framerate is constant.
Might even save some resources on the system it's running on, but I doubt it would matter on current systems.

FYI- A beta patch is live on Steam. It hasn't gone through extensive QA testing because of the holiday weekend but I downloaded it and it works.

Source: http://www.pcgamer.com/vanquish-beta-patch-promises-to-correct-damage-boosting-framerate-glitch/

otakon17:

Marik2:
Lol this happened to valkyria chronicles on the pc

Wait, really!? WHY!? Why would they do that?! It's a damn turned based strategy game!

It seems to be a common problem among games made for the PS3.
I think once people found a coding system that worked they just sorta ran with it.
Now that they are porting them to PC 5 years after the fact and the games are expected to run at double to quadruple the frame rates you run into issues.

 

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